Jason Day chipping

[CasualLie]

Anyone have any links to someone teaching Jason Day dead hand method?  Something good.  The TM videos from the man himself are too vague and the meandmygolf take on it years ago also seems lacking.  Is it that basic?

Edited January 26, 2022 by CasualLie

[CasualLie]

I'm curious about it from a drill point of view.  Seems to me the JD method has rotation being very critical as opposed to other methods.  I find my chipping game inside 30 yards is lacking enough rotation which is killing low point control.

 

Or I'm just over analyzing!  Why not? It's Monday.

[naj959]

Have you seen Bryson's short game video on his youtube channel. Very similar IMO and exactly what I've switched to after struggling with yips for years. He says himself that it's not "Phil level" technique but is adequate for 90% of the shots you will face around the green.

[wagolfer7]

What other info do you need?  

 

I prefer these types of videos versus 20+ minute videos.  

 

Have you tried the towel drill shown?  What are your misses doing if you've tried it?  

 

 

[CasualLie]

Seen that video.

 

I was experimenting with it today and it seems so much easier to manage.  I didn't really miss...but trajectory control, spin, and speed control are all going to be new for me, so was looking for a more in-depth explanation.

 

By the way, based on that freeze frame above, is that not a hinge?  Pardon my nascent at best instructional knowledge, but those hands do not look the same as at address.

 

 

[wagolfer7]

7 minutes ago, CasualLie said:

Seen that video.

 

I was experimenting with it today and it seems so much easier to manage.  I didn't really miss...but trajectory control, spin, and speed control are all going to be new for me, so was looking for a more in-depth explanation.

 

By the way, based on that freeze frame above, is that not a hinge?  Pardon my nascent at best instructional knowledge, but those hands do not look the same as at address.

 

 

No I wouldn't consider that a hinge. Very close if not the same as address. The towel drill is key to the style. You set the triangle at setup and use your body to move the triangle. 

[cav5]

This Is actually an incredibly difficult way to chip and pitch. As simple

as it looks it’s actually more difficult to master. Difficult technique in this case equals advanced results

[596]

I've been experimenting with the same thing.  Just a rotation back and through.  Dead hands and wrists.  I have a flip problem which leads to all sorts of bad stuff when chipping.  I have to be sure my lead wrist is solid and does not move. I swing with just my chest and be sure the right arm does not stop on the downswing.  Which means I have to rotate through the shot.  

 

BD talks alot about turning the chest back and through.  Also the  large Jumbo Max grips help a lot!!

[CasualLie]

8 minutes ago, cav5 said:

This Is actually an incredibly difficult way to chip and pitch. As simple

as it looks it’s actually more difficult to master. Difficult technique in this case equals advanced results

 

Now I am curious.  What's incredibly difficult?  Seems like less can go wrong.

[Liveonce]

Check out the FLYT chipping sleeve. Really helps ingrain the proper motion . The inventor has some good videos on his YT channel also

Edited January 25, 2022 by Liveonce

[jimmygunn]

I can hit any shot this way, with very little manipulation with the club.

Just turn the shoulders 

[cav5]

1 hour ago, CasualLie said:

 

Now I am curious.  What's incredibly difficult?  Seems like less can go wrong.

I’m trying to put in words but there’s a reason you don’t see many people

do it. Its more than just turning with quiet hands. You have to figure out how to move which makes the hands “look” passive. They’re really not, just arced more. It’s “simple” but only one small thing has to fail for it to be catastrophic. You will be able to hit better shots but your bad shots won’t just be bad they’ll be terrible. 

[llewol007]

Does Sticker have the same approach with his set up as well. Very simple to follow but will take some practice for sure. 

[Cwebb]

3 hours ago, CasualLie said:

 

Now I am curious.  What's incredibly difficult?  Seems like less can go wrong.

 

It's rather easy to hit chips with this method.  However, longer pitches get more complicated, because if we do "nothing" with our arms, the club tends to get inside the line.  Sweet-spot gets off plane, which leads to problems coming back down into impact.  The early stages of the "arm swing illusion".

 

A lot of these tour guys that describe something as "nothing", is simply their feel.  Not everyone can get away with a "nothing" feel approach

[MattyO1984]

6 hours ago, Cwebb said:

It's rather easy to hit chips with this method.  However, longer pitches get more complicated, because if we do "nothing" with our arms, the club tends to get inside the line.  Sweet-spot gets off plane, which leads to problems coming back down into impact.  The early stages of the "arm swing illusion".

 

A lot of these tour guys that describe something as "nothing", is simply their feel.  Not everyone can get away with a "nothing" feel approach

 

Hitting the nail on the head…the longer the swing gets, the more difficult it becomes to have your hands not do anything. The guys might feel that it is happening that way but feel and real are definitely different.

 

To the OP, if you were to look for some Stricker videos or Luke Donald, the both employ a similar technique to Day.

[CasualLie]

I would think (and maybe video would show this is true even for Day), as the swing needs to get longer because of distance of the pitch, you wouldn't try to keep hands out of it and make an even bigger turn but instead add a little wrist hinge.

 

I am sure as most of you know, you can get a lot of yards (relatively) with a little wrist pop.  I guess what I am saying is save the wrist hinge for later (if needed) instead of blending it in early.

[wagolfer7]

1 hour ago, CasualLie said:

I would think (and maybe video would show this is true even for Day), as the swing needs to get longer because of distance of the pitch, you wouldn't try to keep hands out of it and make an even bigger turn but instead add a little wrist hinge.

 

I am sure as most of you know, you can get a lot of yards (relatively) with a little wrist pop.  I guess what I am saying is save the wrist hinge for later (if needed) instead of blending it in early.

 

In my opinion he's not doing very much different than everyone else on PGA. Slightly less wrists and starts them later.  All the fundamentals and core is the same as everyone else.  Watch videos on short chips and see if you can really see a difference between him and everyone else.  No player gets a lot of wrist hinge, until it's needed for a bigger swing.  Not sure why some are saying this method is bad.  Turning the body, weight on the left side, rotating on the pivot, maintaining spine angle, getting hands back to starting position at impact, open chest to target and getting taller.......but sure he "feels" for himself to not be active with the hands.  And I bet he has specialty shots that he gets the hands / wrists more active when needed.  This "feel" of less or no hands / wrists is probably just how he is most consistent and confident with stock / basic shots.  

 

  

[Cwebb]

16 minutes ago, wagolfer7 said:

  Not sure why some are saying this method is bad.  

 

  

 

He describes his arm/hand action as "nothing".  If most players attempt to employ a "nothing" feel, they won't produce an action like he has.

[wagolfer7]

44 minutes ago, Cwebb said:

 

He describes his arm/hand action as "nothing".  If most players attempt to employ a "nothing" feel, they won't produce an action like he has.

That is a fair assumption.  

 

But for some golfers that have too active hands, get disconnected from body early, lack body rotation, etc. It could be a good "intent" or "feel" for them. 

 

But I also agree that a lot of golfers don't understand what position hands / wrists need to be at through impact zone.  So by doing "nothing" it wouldn't fix their issue.  

 

[Barfolomew]

18 hours ago, CasualLie said:

 

Now I am curious.  What's incredibly difficult?  Seems like less can go wrong.

 

For me its tougher to judge distance when the smaller muscles are not involved.... Its the fine motor skills that judge distance for me... the line is no issue

[CasualLie]

Perhaps there should be more delineation in regards to distance.  It's one thing to have the intent of keeping arms/hands out of the equation and just pivot when you are 7 steps off the green, quite another when you are 50 yards.

 

Right now I am remembering the Monte approach on how to make the 40 vs 50 vs 60 yard swing, etc... stand behind the ball and rehearse a tossing motion with follow through while telling yourself "it's about like that".  Getting a sense of the complete motion and feel will dictate things like how much wrist, how much turn, etc...

 

But that Jason Day approach around the greens sure looks simple.

[naval2006]

The guys who favor this type of pitching and chipping mostly feel the shoulders or chest or hips as the core to control distance. Hands move naturally through and you avoid manipulating the club with your hands. It works for many players, but not fo all. 

[wagolfer7]

31 minutes ago, CasualLie said:

Perhaps there should be more delineation in regards to distance.  It's one thing to have the intent of keeping arms/hands out of the equation and just pivot when you are 7 steps off the green, quite another when you are 50 yards.

 

Right now I am remembering the Monte approach on how to make the 40 vs 50 vs 60 yard swing, etc... stand behind the ball and rehearse a tossing motion with follow through while telling yourself "it's about like that".  Getting a sense of the complete motion and feel will dictate things like how much wrist, how much turn, etc...

 

But that Jason Day approach around the greens sure looks simple.

 

You can see that Day on that 52 yard pitch shot does use hands / wrists.  It's just his "intent" or "feel" is to keep it quiet or dead.  If you turn your shoulders on that plane like him, eventually the wrists will hinge the bigger turn he makes.  And no, he doesn't suck it inside.  

 

Again he doesn't really look any different than other PGA players hitting the same shot from there.  

[Cwebb]

48 minutes ago, naval2006 said:

The guys who favor this type of pitching and chipping mostly feel the shoulders or chest or hips as the core to control distance. Hands move naturally through and you avoid manipulating the club with your hands. It works for many players, but not fo all. 

 

It works if your hands/arms naturally keep the sweet-spot on plane.  Some do, usually the most talented players, however in my experience, most do not.  For a lot of players, it's actually the root cause of a steep downswing plane and even shanks, because the arms doing nothing gets the sweet-spot quickly inside the plane, leading to a re-route back over the top in an attempt to get the face on the ball

[CasualLie]

@cav5 is right.  It's too difficult!  At least it is with the intent of being dead arm/hand.  I tried it today for awhile and it is just the wrong intent for me.  I also feel there has to be some sort of awareness around the hands/arm to feel you are engaging the bounce.  Now granted, it was only 20 minutes, but I was not expecting miracles so it is not a case of not giving it a chance, just testing the feel.

 

Now I do try to keep the hands out of chipping as much as I can but not on purpose, my focus is just elsewhere.  I very much like the Jeff Smith approach, handle drags a bit back to mid-thigh of trail leg, then lead forearm rotates.  This exposes the bounce and supports the club with extension negating any need for big wrist hinge (flexion).   Visually it probably is not much different than Day, but different feel.  And you can still do the towel drill, connected upper body and pivot are still important and can be maintained.

[doa1950]

Go to you-tube and look at Kevin Kisner chipping lesson. Took 3 strokes off my cap using this method. 

[CasualLie]

Seen the Kisner one... Is pretty good for fundamentals.  My chipping is serviceable.  I just want to get it to "automatic" like my full shots.  Full shots I get a distance, consider conditions, choose a shot/trajectory, choose a club, maybe 1-2 little rehearsals, get behind the ball, choose a distant target / line, choose an intermediate target, lineup, fire...almost zero conscious thought on technique, and whatever happens, accept it and move on.

 

But chipping!, what an adventure.  Usually, first thought is, now what am I going to do! Especially when it's the 6th hole, haven't hit a chip shot all day so it's the first one, and I'm thinking how does this work again??? Then settle on a thought, take a couple of practice swings to feel the bounce on the turf, try to get a feel for desired speed, then hit and hope.  10-20 feet on average...closer to 20 with the occasional hit inside 5 feet.

 

Drives me crazy because I'm putting in 10+ hours/week on chipping.  And I almost always leave the range feeling confident, I got this, then two days later...

 

I know it's mostly mental, not yips, but just not the same level of confidence as the rest of my game, not the same automatic feel.  

[Rapidcat]

If you want to calm your hands chipping or pitching, try some JumboMax grips.

 

I've been a crappy chipper most of my golfing life and put some JumboMax Ultralight Mediums on my specialty wedges a year ago and it has been a revelation.

 

Wonderful for pitching and deadly (in a great way) for chipping. I've gone from chunk and skull city to believing I can hole just about every chip. It just naturally reduces my hand manipulation providing a more consistent delivery into the ball.

 

I used to hate chipping, fearing it, now I love it, its become so much fun.

 

As always, YMMV but its an inexpensive experiment at worst.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Rapidcat

[naj959]

8 hours ago, Rapidcat said:

If you want to calm your hands chipping or pitching, try some JumboMax grips.

 

I've been a crappy chipper most of my golfing life and put some JumboMax Ultralight Mediums on my specialty wedges a year ago and it has been a revelation.

 

Wonderful for pitching and deadly (in a great way) for chipping. I've gone from chunk and skull city to believing I can hole just about every chip. It just naturally reduces my hand manipulation providing a more consistent delivery into the ball.

 

I used to hate chipping, fearing it, now I love it, its become so much fun.

 

As always, YMMV but its an inexpensive experiment at worst.

I've been mulling this over in the back of my mind for the past couple of weeks. My theory is that if i can can reduce the feeling of head weight (SW), then Ill be able to swing the club more uniformly. Instead of feeling like I have to use the small muscles to get the head moving. Death move for me personally. Haven't decided if I'll try lead tape under the grip or jumbo grips.

[cav5]

18 hours ago, CasualLie said:

@cav5 is right.  It's too difficult!  At least it is with the intent of being dead arm/hand.  I tried it today for awhile and it is just the wrong intent for me.  I also feel there has to be some sort of awareness around the hands/arm to feel you are engaging the bounce.  Now granted, it was only 20 minutes, but I was not expecting miracles so it is not a case of not giving it a chance, just testing the feel.

 

Now I do try to keep the hands out of chipping as much as I can but not on purpose, my focus is just elsewhere.  I very much like the Jeff Smith approach, handle drags a bit back to mid-thigh of trail leg, then lead forearm rotates.  This exposes the bounce and supports the club with extension negating any need for big wrist hinge (flexion).   Visually it probably is not much different than Day, but different feel.  And you can still do the towel drill, connected upper body and pivot are still important and can be maintained.

Im glad you tried it though. I sure have too. What you see Day and Stricker do only looks simplified, its actually advanced, that's why they're on tour LOL. sadly can't be mimicked visually.

 

They are delivering the full sole to the ground without ever taking off or adding loft through the swing. Most people, even elite pros are doing one or another. Its a playable error.

 

J.Day also plays or played his irons 2 or 3 degrees stronger. In his prime watch him deliver his irons at full speed. No lean/deloft. Fabulous stuff. Watch Hogan videos too, no lean but more "active" hands. 

 

I thought I had this mastered for about 3 days once. I remember getting up and down out of the rough, short-sided, to a pin 2 yards on from about 30yards. The J. Day way was the only way to do it without having to flop it and I pulled it off. Ended up shooting 67 that day but I also flubbed a 52* from 115 about 70 yards LOL. 

 

The best feel I had for it was attempting to turn while keeping a beach ball under the water. The club will feel like it will want to hit fat but its just because of the added space. Unless that feel translates to your whole game its just too hard I think. It's so hard to get the proprioception correct.

 

Then again this game is crazy, you might be able to figure it out. Sometimes the words you identify a feel with have the most meaning in this game. For example when I try to hit a dead straight drive I think "cut" not "straight"