Bigger Guys Golf Swing - Differences I have Learned

[games]

10 hours ago, lv_2_hack said:

Great thread so far guys. 

Chase, glad you and Chris chimed in here.  I know this isn't your instruction, but would this drill from Brian Smock (one of our "fat guy" swing models) help with #3?

 

https://www.instagram.com/tv/B-GcPyvlqIE/?hl=en

 

[lv_2_hack]

1 hour ago, games said:

Chase, glad you and Chris chimed in here.  I know this isn't your instruction, but would this drill from Brian Smock (one of our "fat guy" swing models) help with #3?

 

https://www.instagram.com/tv/B-GcPyvlqIE/?hl=en

 

Yes. That drill is great for both eliminating excessive slide and incentivizing left tilt. If you right tilt from that set up, you will hit 5 feet behind the ball or fall over. 

[Golfbeat]

2 hours ago, games said:

Chase, glad you and Chris chimed in here.  I know this isn't your instruction, but would this drill from Brian Smock (one of our "fat guy" swing models) help with #3?

 

https://www.instagram.com/tv/B-GcPyvlqIE/?hl=en

 

 

S&T is sort of a dirty word on this forum but is that not what this drill is in fact doing?

Edited February 13, 2022 by Golfbeat

[dlow206]

I need to go make this same thread but for the vertically challenged dad-bodish guys. I know there are some of you hiding out their besides me. 

[d_s]

13 hours ago, lv_2_hack said:

Great thread so far guys. 
 

5 years ago I’d of said I hated when a ‘Big Boned’ student would come in the academy looking for some swing help. I just wasn’t sure the best way to fix them. I always felt like they had fewer options, which is still true, but I didn’t know what those options were. 
 

I had a break through with one of my college players. He was never known to be a great ball striker and also cane back from Christmas break complaining of back pain. He wanted to make some changes and was open to just about anything. 
 

We identified the excessive right tilt issues and started grinding on ways to stay in left tilt longer. The results were crazy good. His back pain went away. He went from being unranked in D3 to top 10 in less than a year. He was a cronic right path right tilter, so we had to continue to focus on tilting left and making sure he could fade it when needed. 
 

From there I’ve kinda simplified the ‘fat boy swing’ to a few of these keys…

 

1. It begins and ends with low point control. Nothing else really matters if you can’t hit the ground where you want. 
 

2. The body fades it, the arms draw it. Meaning, you can’t right tilt to draw it and you can’t throw your arms over the top to fade it. Have to keep arms deep enough not to slice and stay in left tilt long enough to be able to fade it. That tends to be Heath and Schnee’s balancing acts. 
 

3. Can’t have a lot of lateral motion off the ball. Have to stay fairly centered. Also don’t need a ton of width in backswing. Tends to pull upper center to far off ball when chasing width. Playing from a narrow armed P4 could help a lot of you stay in your tilts and stay centered. 
 

4. Can’t get the arms super deep in backswing. Just not enough room to make it work. 
 

5. Can’t play from a super closed clubface at the top (or too flexed left wrist). The closed face also delofts the face and most of you can’t manage that. You’ll tend to right tilt too much to try to get the ball airborne. 
 

There are obviously outliers to the above ideas but these are some general rules to watch for. 
 

Think that’s it for now. Hope this helps!

 

Thanks for this info.  Helpful.  I have short arms which compounds being big and trying to play golf.  No matter how I tilt my shoulders on the back swing (level or severly tilted), my left shoulder seems to collide into my chin which usually causes me to stand up some.  I guess the shorter backswing the better for me.

I also stuggle w/ loading the trail site.  Will so much of our weight being out towards the toes, how are you supposed to load into the trail heel?  I never really feel my lower body do anything but react to what my upper body is doing.  I assume the lower body should be more active and proactive vs mine being reactive.

Edited February 13, 2022 by d s

[596]

As a tall older guy I have a unique problem.  6' 3" with very long arms and legs.  My right leg (right handed) is 1" shorter then my left.  (got hit by a car many moons ago directing traffic as a cop) I have "built in" tilt.  Makes things a bit weird.  I have to bend my lead knee a tad more then my right at setup.  This helps with not hitting the ball fat.  My misses are toe shots most of the time and some fats due to the leg length discrepancy.  I have tried recently to get my swing more upright as my swing has always been quite flat, which should help with the toe shots.  

[Golfbeat]

On 2/12/2022 at 3:01 PM, sethdavidsdad said:

This is where I’m talking about. To me it looks like both have trail elbo going slightly internal. Is this intentional? 
Any feels that would help me get here?

 

 

These pictures of the back swing got me completely back on track. The thought of aiming the grip at your heels is brilliant. This probably works pretty much universally and not just for bigger men!

[Schnee]

On 2/11/2022 at 4:25 PM, scooterhd2 said:

Anybody having more success with an open stance? I'm 6'1 275. For me, setting up open sort of presets the hip turn at impact and gets things out of the way. Likewise in transition, it is harder to goat hump or get the right knee going forward. The weight is set left and since that foot is behind you a bit, it make more of 'Monte's zipper away' feeling more natural to me. And then the right knee moves more down the target line than out, which gets the right hip and right spare tire meat out of the way. Alot more room to keep the arms behind while working in to out. Really been hitting irons better than ever with this setup. 

I never had success with an open stance. Square to slightly closed has been best for me. With an open stance, it's too hard to keep left arm in long enough. 

In my swing, priorities are 

 

1. Low Point Control

2. Left arm staying in

 

Both are accomplished with staying in left tilt longer. 

 

That's also why I've struggled to play a fade. My way of cutting it has always been for left arm to come out hit pull cuts. Works fine until driver, then both sides are in play. 

I can draw it and get away with some excess right tilt. 

[Krt22]

BGRT checking in!

 

(Big Guy Right Tilter)

[betarhoalphadelta]

What's the entry criteria for this thread? Will 6'5" 275# do it lol? 😉

 

More seriously, though... I'm a giant guy but proportionately not all through the midsection... Do I exhibit "big guy" swing tendencies that would benefit here? 

 

 

[GolfTurkey]

On 2/13/2022 at 12:36 PM, lv_2_hack said:

5. Can’t play from a super closed clubface at the top (or too flexed left wrist). The closed face also delofts the face and most of you can’t manage that. You’ll tend to right tilt too much to try to get the ball airborne.

 

I'm not the body type in question but this applies to us scrawnier types too I think. Here's my rant for the day (and I'm glad that you're at least one voice against all this):

 

I'm so tired of banging my head against the wall with a strong grip and being in the left gunch all day and then being told that a weaker grip that fixes that issue is a "crutch". Apparently everyone has to play with a strong grip and/or bow the heck out of it in transition, get the club shut at P6 and simply rotate into a "leveraged" (puke) impact position. To me this ignores both the massive amounts of people that physically can't rotate like DJ and Morikawa (I have a lead hip held together by screws) and the large (majority?) number of major winners and hall of famers that look more like Jack, Phil and Vijay at impact.

[games]

59 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

What's the entry criteria for this thread? Will 6'5" 275# do it lol? 😉

 

More seriously, though... I'm a giant guy but proportionately not all through the midsection... Do I exhibit "big guy" swing tendencies that would benefit here? 

 

 

 

if the belly covers up the belt buckle at P4, you’re in.
 

 

[lv_2_hack]

On 2/13/2022 at 9:46 AM, d s said:

Thanks for this info.  Helpful.  I have short arms which compounds being big and trying to play golf.  No matter how I tilt my shoulders on the back swing (level or severly tilted), my left shoulder seems to collide into my chin which usually causes me to stand up some.  I guess the shorter backswing the better for me.

I also stuggle w/ loading the trail site.  Will so much of our weight being out towards the toes, how are you supposed to load into the trail heel?  I never really feel my lower body do anything but react to what my upper body is doing.  I assume the lower body should be more active and proactive vs mine being reactive.

 
I wouldn’t sweat the lower body not being active enough. Most bigger dudes who have good swings don’t get that open with their lower bodies. Not flexible enough, not enough space, causes too much right tilt, etc for reasons why. 

[lv_2_hack]

3 hours ago, GolfTurkey said:

 

I'm not the body type in question but this applies to us scrawnier types too I think. Here's my rant for the day (and I'm glad that you're at least one voice against all this):

 

I'm so tired of banging my head against the wall with a strong grip and being in the left gunch all day and then being told that a weaker grip that fixes that issue is a "crutch". Apparently everyone has to play with a strong grip and/or bow the heck out of it in transition, get the club shut at P6 and simply rotate into a "leveraged" (puke) impact position. To me this ignores both the massive amounts of people that physically can't rotate like DJ and Morikawa (I have a lead hip held together by screws) and the large (majority?) number of major winners and hall of famers that look more like Jack, Phil and Vijay at impact.

Amen!

[lv_2_hack]

3 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

What's the entry criteria for this thread? Will 6'5" 275# do it lol? 😉

 

More seriously, though... I'm a giant guy but proportionately not all through the midsection... Do I exhibit "big guy" swing tendencies that would benefit here? 

 

 

Good move here. I’d say be careful about too much head movement off the ball in backswing. 

[lv_2_hack]

On 2/13/2022 at 11:07 AM, 596 said:

As a tall older guy I have a unique problem.  6' 3" with very long arms and legs.  My right leg (right handed) is 1" shorter then my left.  (got hit by a car many moons ago directing traffic as a cop) I have "built in" tilt.  Makes things a bit weird.  I have to bend my lead knee a tad more then my right at setup.  This helps with not hitting the ball fat.  My misses are toe shots most of the time and some fats due to the leg length discrepancy.  I have tried recently to get my swing more upright as my swing has always been quite flat, which should help with the toe shots.  

One of my favorite quotes with regards to how people are built is: People are messy. 
 

We’re all built so differently which makes this crazy game even more of a challenge to play and to try to teach. 
 

I *generally* like to see longer armed guys with more vertical (not as deep/flat) backswings. Can also get away with more width. If arms get too deep, can cause all sorts of issues if not managed correctly. 

[J295]

Curious on whether group here believes short game is a bit more challenging for those of us who are taller?

 

it has been for this 6‘4“ and 205 pounds. 62-year-old six cap.   

 

 

[Hstead]

2 hours ago, J295 said:

Curious on whether group here believes short game is a bit more challenging for those of us who are taller?

 

it has been for this 6‘4“ and 205 pounds. 62-year-old six cap.   

 

 

I am not sure about height, but I think age has a lot to do with my short game issues.  Growing up in the era of balata balls that spun like crazy, you could put it off your back foot, stomp down on it, and it would skid then stop right by the hole.  Now we have tighter grasses mown shorter, elevated greens surrounded by tightly mowed runoff areas, and you have to hit this high soft shot to a  firm fast green with a ball that won't spin.  

 

Chase and I worked as hard this past trip to Houston on pitching the ball as we did my full motion.  Normally, we work on short game stuff outside on the course and hit different types of shots etc.  This time, it was incredibly cold for Houston, so instead of hitting shots outside, Chase videoed my pitching and chipping motion, used force plates, trackman, and multiple video angles.  It was telling.  We wouldn't have accomplished as much outside.  I spotted some things in my motion that were causing me to get too shallow which led to some heavy contact at times.  My pitching is so much better now, I can hit it way higher and softer with much more consistent contact and turf interaction.  

 

I would say post up a video from different angels, DTL and FO and see if someone can help.

[PJ1120]

On 2/10/2022 at 4:48 PM, Hstead said:

I thought I would start a thread on some of the things I have learned on my path to improve and make my swing more efficient over the years.  I have been to quite a few really good instructors over the past decade or longer and I have taken away something from all of them, but I feel like I finally have a pattern that fits my build and a lot of other bigger guys could maybe shorten their learning curve by understanding the differences bigger guys face and not make some of the mistakes I made in the past.

 

I chased many positions in the past due to my misunderstanding of what fit me, namely trying to get the shaft super shallow and laid down.  I also tried to get a ton of extension past impact, I tried to get the butt of the club as far from my belt buckle as I could.  Those two goals led to continued consistency issues, mostly controlling low point.  I would get the club way too under plane because I would right tilt too early and that caused low point control issues, blocks, and hooks.  I also lost speed because I would hold off the release thinking I wanted all of this arm extension past impact.

 

I have been working with Chase Cooper, lv_2_hack on here, for a couple of years and I feel like I have finally changed my swing and understand what works for me to play better.  Chase has built in two "bumpers" he calls them, which are my guides to keeping my shaft from getting too under plane and to keep me from right tilting too early.  I have studied a bunch of bigger buys that have played on Tour over several decades and I l learned they keep the shaft for the most part above the plane until P6.  

 

The two guides for me, are keeping my eye-line tilt from going to far up and right, and feeling like I keep my left arm in at P5.  I have to get my eyes down and left, and keep the left shoulder moving down and left.  It is incredible how much your eyes and nose influence the direction of your shoulders.  The other guide is making sure at P5 I have the left arm in a little and not let it get too outside.  Elkington calls it "pinching the Tity" as he has been working with Chase on the exact same move.

 

When I started working with Chase I was 8 to 9 degrees right with my path and my AoA was 2 degrees down if that.  Now I can hit 8 down if I want and can move the path from 5 left to 5 right pretty easy by feeling the left arm in or letting it get out a little.  Chase taught me too, the path numbers do not mean much without AoA.  You can have a path 7 degrees right, and if you have the AoA down enough, the swing direction result is fairly neutral.  I have learned a lot about controlling my swing direction with the AoA instead of trying to just change the path.

 

I just made my fourth trip to Houston I think.  The facilities are awesome and talking to Hal Sutton about how to play has been a huge help too.  He and Chase have probably improved my scores as much with mental stuff than just the swing stuff.

 

Just wanted to share because I kind of get tired of seeing some of the threads on here that I think cause more harm than good.  They did for me anyway.  I am done chasing this super shallow flat look forever.  It is so much easier to keep the club parallel to the plane but above it until P6.  The AMG guys I know harp on it too.  If you are a bigger dude, quit chasing the skinny man look with super open hips al la DJ and the super laid down shaft like Sergio.  It can wreck our swings.

 

I'm 72 and have played for 50 years. It's only been the last 6 months that I realized how important it is for me to emphasize how my eyeline in transition must be down and not behind. I was an excess right tilter with a plus angle of attack with low point issues forever. It's weird that I've never heard any instructors empahisizing this before. This comment resonated with me.......probably not for everyone.

[Krt22]

12 hours ago, lv_2_hack said:

One of my favorite quotes with regards to how people are built is: People are messy. 
 

We’re all built so differently which makes this crazy game even more of a challenge to play and to try to teach. 
 

I *generally* like to see longer armed guys with more vertical (not as deep/flat) backswings. Can also get away with more width. If arms get too deep, can cause all sorts of issues if not managed correctly. 

I wish I had known this when I first started golfing. I'm 6' with a 6'4" wing span, the first time I hit on a trackman my path was 8-10* in to out with a nearly level AoA. Basically have been working on getting the club more vertical ever since lol

[Diesel_z06]

This thread! I’m  5”11 265, I’m a big guy and have always been told by everyone I have to have a closed stance to hit a draw because I’m so big blah blah, I’m also a boxer. Went to an open stance and my path got absurdly better, and just feel so much more free swinging it. I maintain and argue that there’s no way a closed stance is faster than an open stance, especially for bigger people… now that’s probably the boxer in me talking, because punching from a closed stance is just not possible. I’m tired of going to coaches trying to get me “super shallow” and fighting natural tendency’s. I’m enormous, I can’t get in those positions lol. It sucks that’s it’s so hard to find instruction these days that’s not a cookie cutter fad swing being forced on you. 

Edited February 16, 2022 by Diesel_z06

[cardoustie]

Well as another “husky” fellow, here’s a few things working like magic for me currently

 

1. Jon Kim Moss vid of extension of right side going back and left side going thru … wow … so much more room past the ball For my arms targetwards.  Eye opener

2. Right shoulder direct to target from top, never drops and resultant right side tilt is gone … and stay taller

3. Feeling a tiny bit of hit hit from the inside by leading downswing with right elbow and arms tight together

4. Letting my takeaway go where the left shoulder sends it.  Not trying to artificially keep the head going straight back or way outside the hands … I am way more connected … downswing simpler

 

took down two +3’s yesterday … chest puff 

[cardoustie]

Semi related …I have committed to fully abandoning hitting across it for cuts … just leads to dreaded double crosses at the worst times

[cardoustie]

@Hstead

great post topic, thanks

 

And hey, in my opinion, if you are 225 and 6’3”, you are too lean for this thread

 

 

[LaterOn61]

In this thread posters are referring to left tilt or right tilt. How does one determine which they are any why is this important for a bigger guy.

[mgoblue83]

I'm 6'2'' 270lbs with a weight lifting/sport background and wide shoulders/chest. I also have long arms and legs.

 

My swing is VERY unorthodox because I physically cannot lay my left arm across my chest (can barely move it past 90 degrees straight out). This causes me to take the club up very outside and very steep with a flying right elbow (similar to Matt Wolff but I've been doing it for years and years) and really loop it back into the slot in transition. TO me it feels like stepping into a side arm throw from short stop to first base. 

 

I've tried to hit the standard positions over the years and all it goes is remove the athleticism from my swing, significantly reduce the speed, and destroy my consistency. 

 

2 handicap - 175-180mph ball speed with driver. 

[MonteScheinblum]

13 hours ago, LaterOn61 said:

In this thread posters are referring to left tilt or right tilt. How does one determine which they are any why is this important for a bigger guy.

For a right handed golfer….

 

You're in left tilt at the top of the swing.  You’re in right tilt at impact.  It’s bad for any golfer to right tilt early.  Bigger guys are more susceptible to early right tilt.

[MK7Golf21]

28 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

For a right handed golfer….

 

You're in left tilt at the top of the swing.  You’re in right tilt at impact.  It’s bad for any golfer to right tilt early.  Bigger guys are more susceptible to early right tilt.

 

Monte, from people you teach is the hips sliding too much out from under the body and towards the ball a common cause of too much right tilt? It seems like nearly every weekend golfer does that.

 

I do have to say after seeing the amount Schnee right tilted in his swing that I became a believer it was a big guy issue, lol.

Edited February 17, 2022 by Redjeep83

[MonteScheinblum]

14 minutes ago, Redjeep83 said:

 

Monte, from people you teach is the hips sliding too much out from under the body and towards the ball a common cause of too much right tilt? It seems like nearly every weekend golfer does that.

 

I do have to say after seeing the amount Schnee right tilted in his swing that I became a believer it was a big guy issue, lol.

It’s a chicken or egg.  If you do one, you get the other.  It’s a problem for every golfer that isn't the beginner over the top guy, who most actually rotate properly and are taught to fix it by right tilting early.  There’s a reason nearly every 5-15 handicapper is a goat Humper with a two way miss.  They were taught to solve OTT the wrong way.

 

The larger you are, the more good players right tilt early to flatten the shaft, because it’s an easy way to do it.  I did it for 40 years, even when I was not large.  Now I’m fixing it.  Chase and I have been consulting on this for a few years now.  About 4-5 actually.

[Zitlow]

Mobility is the key. Some of the best dancers I've seen are obese but they move their bodies efficiently. 

 

I patterned my pregame warmup after the first guy.