Pete Cowen : "Worlds BEST golf coach TRANSFORMS my game in 25 MINUTES!!"

[Janik]

18 hours ago, badhabit said:

 

Unless one knows how to move the club out from its natural orbit tendency routing from proximal seeking distal to distal finding proximal it would be difficult for many to appreciate, and understand, how the process works using rotation and opposing forces through the strike.   It's not that the club doesn't rotate, it's how it's rotating that is key.  Cowen knows. 

You’re as good a spoofer as Cowen. “You just don’t understand, man”. 

[sjn1]

On 3/30/2022 at 2:19 PM, Hawkeye77 said:

Most certainly does, just explained, and in detail, without simply saying "loading the shoulders".  Different ways of saying the same thing, but it's in there.

 

 

Iinteresting you could find it, I watched it again when this thread started and still didn't pick that up ; which part of the dvd is it in   ?  I recall Cowen  saying  in a  magazine  interview that he deliberately left out the loading the shoulders bit from the DVD because they thought it might be confusing , and  in retrospect they probably should have included it .    the towel twist stuff seems to be something he came up with after the dvd as well , although its not a new idea  - my local pro was teaching that when I started golf several decades ago .

Edited April 10, 2022 by sjn1

[CasualLie]

I randomly get joined with this guy last week who was one of the slowest golfers I have played with in many years.  So many rehearsals...then a long setup...then a pause over the ball.  I think he hit three decent shots all day.  I'm watching these rehearsals and wondering what in the world is going on in that head?!  Finally near the end of the round I could not take it anymore and had to ask "what are you working on?" 

 

He replies "I am trying to load my shoulders for a draw or fade."

 

(I so badly wanted to say do you load them differently for a topper or a big push right, because you got that working)

I reply "oh...that's weird, I was just watching a video on that..."

 

He gets kind of quiet.  So I follow up "are you hanging out on that site golfwrx?"

 

His eyes get shift, looks away, pauses, and says "no...what's that?"

 

Hmmm...didn't seem very convincing to me, so I just say "long story, just a website, look it up, anyway..."

 

I wanted to tell him load the shoulders all you want dude, you have zero body turn, so who knows where the ball is going...but I left it alone, as it was what should have been the sub 4 hour round went over 4 hours and was making me late for a meeting.

 

That Cowen video is dangerous in the hands of a hack.

 

 

[i*windows]

upate

 

[scooterhd2]

Late to the party, but I found that lesson to be very informative. I have a tendency to get my shoulder too level, and the one arms rehearsal with the club flipped upside down and swinging with an attention really feels powerful with more room to turn. You here alot of pros taking about fade and draw just being a pressure shift in the grip, or setup, but for me to pull it off it is very intentional with the hands. Sort of a lightbulb moment that the shoulders would set everything first. 

 

Was nice to hear about the grip as well. My best golf has always been with a strong left and weakish right hand and sort of having that feeiling of opposing forces. 

Edited April 7, 2022 by scooterhd2

[nitram]

The clubhead stabilization via the opposing forces applied to the grip is worth the time it takes you to watch it. If it doesn't resonate with you in the first 5 minutes, keep working on it! For many, it's foreign or "feels weird", and (as with anything new), it should.

[ericschlukebir]

Looks like he is giving Brooks the same lesson.  

[CasualLie]

On 4/7/2022 at 4:12 AM, i*windows said:

upate

 

 

That's an update?!  Wow JR's game is pretty mediocre.  I would give him 3 a side any day at any course.

 

 

[Golf Scientist]

On 3/25/2022 at 5:50 PM, jonsnow said:

 

 

13 hours ago, klbcec said:

 

 

 

On 3/5/2022 at 3:23 PM, HarborMike said:

 

 

On 3/25/2022 at 6:55 AM, Gawbage_man said:

I don't quite understand the hand position he was talking about.  

 

On 3/25/2022 at 8:12 AM, KD1 said:

I logged on specifically to see if anyone was talking about this video yet, lol.

 

I couldn't quite follow some of what he was talking about.

 

1) The opposing forces in the grip. To be clear, he suggests you should apply force in your grip such that the inside of your wrists would rotate closer together?? How much force/tensions are we talking about here? Adding any tension at the wrists is the opposite of what I've always heard but of course I'm open to what ever he's preaching...

 

 

The opposing forces with regard to the hands he was talking about is the pressure, or force that the hands apply in both direction and magnitude. He is advocating if you have one hand/arm applying force in one direction you should have an equal force balancing it out by applying force with the other one in a counter direction with equal force. If you don't have something countering the force there is nothing to stop it from moving in the direction of the applied force.

 

Lets say you take your your lead/target side hand (left hand for right handed golfers), and you position it very on top of the club (strong grip like Dustin Johnson, Fred Couples, David Duval, or Paul Azinger). If you don't have your right hand on the club handle and you just push in the direction the hand is rotated where does the club swing. (Down and inside...the same place your palm is roughly pointed is where it is likely to swing based on the direction of the force being applied). To counter that from happening you'd need to apply an opposing force.

 

If you put your hands together in a praying position, and push both towards each other with equal force neither will move anywhere. If you reduce the force in either the one applying more force will win, and you will get movement in the direction the stronger force is pushing towards.

 

 

 

On 3/25/2022 at 11:18 AM, badboggs said:

I've never understood the fascination teachers seem to have with gravity acting on the club.  From a force point of view gravity most certainly has very little impact on a golf swing.  Granted I'm only about 10% through the video but I've always wondered about that.  I've heard Malaska say the same kind of thing.  I'm no biometrics expert but I'd guess gravity is almost a negligible contribution to a golf swing dynamics.  Am I way off here?

 

When you don't have momentum, inertia, centripetal force, or muscular force (angular force / acceleration momentum) being applied to an object, and its just the weight of an object and gravity that object is going to drop straight down (as illustrated by Pete when he lightens the pressure in his hands and arms in the video, and lets the club fall). You can overpower gravity and weight if you apply a stronger force to oppose it, but when you have the other forces mentioned contributing to an object's movement the effective mass/weight of the object becomes more, and it will take a larger force to stop / counter it.

The less force you have acting on an object the easier you can redirect ir counter it, but the more force applied the more difficult it is to redirect it. (Applying force earlier or when something is moving slower will be easier than when something in moving faster later. It would take a lot more work and force to direct something already in motion in a direction).

 

That's the concepts people like Pete Cowen, Mike Malaska, Michael Jacobs, and people with both a good understanding of physics and biomechanics are talking about.

 

 

 

On 3/25/2022 at 5:50 PM, jonsnow said:

I don't know if Pete Cowen originated the idea of the spiral staircase, but he (& those he is working with like Stenson) are the only people I've heard reference it. It is a striking image.

 

On 3/25/2022 at 3:13 PM, CasualLie said:

 

I'm curious who was the origin of golf instruction in the UK.  I've met four instructors over the years that love that wind up diagonally from the ground up and unwind the club down like a spiral staircase.  Is weird, never seen that on this side of the pond as they say.  Did it come from Cowen???

 

Back in the 90's Steve Elkington wrote and talked about moving his abs into his rib cage in a diagonal direction. If it was an Elkington created concept, his instructor Alex Mercer's concept, one that had been shared with them by Cowen at some previous point, or came from someone else prior to that it's hard to know.

[KD1]

1 hour ago, Golf Scientist said:

The opposing forces with regard to the hands he was talking about is the pressure, or force that the hands apply in both direction and magnitude. He is advocating if you have one hand/arm applying force in one direction you should have an equal force balancing it out by applying force with the other one in a counter direction with equal force. If you don't have something countering the force there is nothing to stop it from moving in the direction of the applied force.

 

Lets say you take your your lead/target side hand (left hand for right handed golfers), and you position it very on top of the club (strong grip like Dustin Johnson, Fred Couples, David Duval, or Paul Azinger). If you don't have your right hand on the club handle and you just push in the direction the hand is rotated where does the club swing. (Down and inside...the same place your palm is roughly pointed is where it is likely to swing based on the direction of the force being applied). To counter that from happening you'd need to apply an opposing force.

 

If you put your hands together in a praying position, and push both towards each other with equal force neither will move anywhere. If you reduce the force in either the one applying more force will win, and you will get movement in the direction the stronger force is pushing towards.

 

I was more trying to figure out which direction he meant to torque the grips. I believe someone in this thread mentioned rotate snuff boxes into each other. Maybe a better description would be the feeling of extension of both wrists?

Edited April 8, 2022 by KD1

[moehogan]

25 minutes ago, KD1 said:

 

I was more trying to figure out which direction he meant to torque the grips. I believe someone in this thread mentioned rotate snuff boxes into each other. Maybe a better description would be the feeling of extension of both wrists?

 

 

Not sure if this is exactly what Pete recommends, but it can work to help provide a stable clubface. Use rotational grip pressures (hands/forearms) not wrist hinging … lead hand-last three fingers, trail hand-two middle fingers.

 

Rotate the hands against each other on the top of the grip in the BS (snuff boxes together). This helps the lead arm pronate but prevents the trail arm from opening too quickly. In transition, reverse those windings so the hands rotate against each other under the grip and continue that in the DS (snuff boxes apart). The elbows will move closer together, preventing them from separating and flying out.

 

Takes a little experimentation to dial in neutral, but a better player should be able to find it in one range session. Need more clubface closure? Increase trail hand middle finger grip pressure. Need more clubface opening? Increase trail hand ring finger grip pressure. Why? Different finger tendons connect to and/or activate different arm muscles.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[nitram]

1 hour ago, KD1 said:

 

I was more trying to figure out which direction he meant to torque the grips. I believe someone in this thread mentioned rotate snuff boxes into each other. Maybe a better description would be the feeling of extension of both wrists?

Notice in the video how PC shows JR how to twist the towel. On most shots, the heels of his hands rotate towards each other in the backswing. The heels rotate opposite each other in the downswing.

[Valtiel]

On 4/4/2022 at 3:41 PM, CasualLie said:

I randomly get joined with this guy last week who was one of the slowest golfers I have played with in many years.  So many rehearsals...then a long setup...then a pause over the ball.  I think he hit three decent shots all day.  I'm watching these rehearsals and wondering what in the world is going on in that head?!  Finally near the end of the round I could not take it anymore and had to ask "what are you working on?" 

 

He replies "I am trying to load my shoulders for a draw or fade."

 

(I so badly wanted to say do you load them differently for a topper or a big push right, because you got that working)

I reply "oh...that's weird, I was just watching a video on that..."

 

He gets kind of quiet.  So I follow up "are you hanging out on that site golfwrx?"

 

His eyes get shift, looks away, pauses, and says "no...what's that?"

 

Hmmm...didn't seem very convincing to me, so I just say "long story, just a website, look it up, anyway..."

 

I wanted to tell him load the shoulders all you want dude, you have zero body turn, so who knows where the ball is going...but I left it alone, as it was what should have been the sub 4 hour round went over 4 hours and was making me late for a meeting.

 

That Cowen video is dangerous in the hands of a hack.

 

 

Dude why you gotta call me out like that, I was having an off day. 🤣

[ashortgame]

Pretty good lesson actually.

 

Cowen is not for everyone as you can see from various comments here.

 

This guy gets way inside on the way back and gets stuck on the way through.

If you can bypass all the Cowen clinic show for the You tube watchers and get to the crux of the lesson which is from 13.20-15.40 and then 16.36-20.10 its a pretty simple lesson which is all that you would want to do in a one off lesson for a good player.

Easy to get caught up and confused in the clinic chat and miss the basis of the lesson which is  relatively simple.

[GolfTurkey]

On 3/31/2022 at 8:36 PM, JungleJimbo said:

@MattyO1984: Why Not? Is it because you're worried that James Robinson's persistent motto
"Let's Do It... and Let's Do it Now!" will get stuck in your head? 🙉

😬🚫🤬

 

You have to wonder if he uses that same phrase in his personal life

[parforme]

First of all, I don't care for instructors, golf or otherwise, who speak in nebulous terms and then ask even more nebulous questions expecting you will give the correct answer.  He may be a true expert on the golf swing, but I find Pete's communications skills to be terrible and a real turnoff.  

[D_iGital_pUnk]

On 3/26/2022 at 1:18 PM, MK7Golf21 said:

if you look at that guys YouTube you will see that he swings really inside and flat on the backswing and his arms get stuck behind him, he came to him with inconsistent ballstriking which is fairly easy to see why. I think Cowen gave him some good advice, he got him getting his hands higher and more in front to hit some fades which he needed to neutralize him out, was based on ballflight instead of looking at everything on camera and he got results. I mean, there isn't much more you can ask out of a 25 minute lesson really. I thought he ended the lesson pretty fast though, should of kept letting Cowen watch over and end it when he was done. I just think he was nervous.

 

I was nervous watching. 

[Nickc]

I liked the video and in the main quite clear (also watched bits of the pyramid of learning also some good stuff).

 

The bit I was a little confused about was the concept of "loading the left shoulder#" for a draw or fade can someone enlighten me 

 

 

# or was it the right shoulder need to go and look again

 

[Rapidcat]

He's a Yorkshireman, eh? Like a caricature of a one:

 

 

Sometimes wrong but never in doubt.

[nitram]

3 hours ago, Nickc said:

I liked the video and in the main quite clear (also watched bits of the pyramid of learning also some good stuff).

 

The bit I was a little confused about was the concept of "loading the left shoulder#" for a draw or fade can someone enlighten me 

 

 

# or was it the right shoulder need to go and look again

 

It's the LEAD shoulder. So, left shoulder for a right hand golfer. He's basically saying to find the "sweet spot" where the clubhead naturally drops on-plane into the ball, and once you find it, you can swing your lead shoulder for a draw, fade, or straight shot. But don't overlook the stabilization part of it. IMHO, it's the most important thing he mentions in the entire 27 minutes.

Edited April 15, 2022 by nitram

[Nickc]

1 hour ago, nitram said:

It's the LEAD shoulder. So, left shoulder for a right hand golfer. He's basically saying to find the "sweet spot" where the clubhead naturally drops on-plane into the ball, and once you find it, you can swing your lead shoulder for a draw, fade, or straight shot. But don't overlook the stabilization part of it. IMHO, it's the most important thing he mentions in the entire 27 minutes.

Thanks

[nitram]

19 hours ago, Billywhizz said:

 

When you say the clubhead drops naturally on-plane into the ball , how does one know which plane to drop on is the natural one?

Watch the OP's video again beginning at 2:03, he's explaining how to find this plane sweet spot.

Edited April 16, 2022 by nitram

[MK7Golf21]

On 4/15/2022 at 8:32 AM, nitram said:

It's the LEAD shoulder. So, left shoulder for a right hand golfer. He's basically saying to find the "sweet spot" where the clubhead naturally drops on-plane into the ball, and once you find it, you can swing your lead shoulder for a draw, fade, or straight shot. But don't overlook the stabilization part of it. IMHO, it's the most important thing he mentions in the entire 27 minutes.

 

From my take he is talking about loading the lead arm when he says load the shoulder for the shot. Load the shoulder for a draw would be a little flatter allowing the clubbed to more naturally swing from in to out. Loading the shoulder for a fade would be higher lead arm and more in front so it more naturally swings down on a steeper angle from out to in. That's pretty much the only logical meaning to loading the lead shoulder for the shot.

 

This guy was whipping the club super inside and very flat below his shoulders, he needed to feel much higher and in front with the arms which was the shoulder loading for a fade. It pretty much just neutralized him to hit it straight. 

[KD1]

Thought I'd put this here for the record

 

 

[sonnygolf]

On 3/26/2022 at 1:43 AM, BMC said:

That video was painful to watch.  Cowen has a weird way of communicating.

Only to those who are not advanced. In fariness to Pete he has spent decades teaching tour winners and his style of communicating is understood by those well verse in swing mechanics. A Harvard proffesor is going to struggle teaching elementry school students. 

 

Did I understand what he said? - absolutely not 

 

 

[BMC]

23 minutes ago, sonnygolf said:

Only to those who are not advanced. In fariness to Pete he has spent decades teaching tour winners and his style of communicating is understood by those well verse in swing mechanics. A Harvard proffesor is going to struggle teaching elementry school students. 

 

Did I understand what he said? - absolutely not 

 

 

Great.  A teacher for Mensa members.

[KD1]

eh...

 

"If you can't explain it to a 6 year old, you don't understand it well enough." Or something to the effect

Edited April 17, 2022 by KD1

[Nickc]

IMO what he said in the main seemed straight forward none of the P number stuff, pronation, flexation, radial deviation etc that a lot seem to spout.

[Rapidcat]

Well I'm not having it - I'd last about 5 minutes with him before asking him to cease speaking in riddles and please communicate in a non superior attitude: "I know everything and I’m going to make sure you realise it whilst ensuring you feel like a fool." I'm not paying $ to feed his ego.

 

Watched a few of his other videos and it doesn't get any better. Bizarre analogies like the spiral staircase – what material is it made from, how tall is it, what are the rise of the steps etc. How on earth are you supposed to swing a golf club correctly without knowing the detail?
 

[Showtime9]

I am by no means advanced whatsoever but I quite enjoyed that video. The car analogy part has stuck with me with the shoulders being the transmission of the swing. The only issue I have is the click bait title of the youtube video (for obvious reasons).