The corrosive effect of “gimmies”

[StudentGolfer4]

12 hours ago, RCGA said:

 

In a tournament I mark just about everything. Which means I go through my entire routine for a 16" putt (I missed these as a junior playing carelessly). Last year I don't think I saw a single person miss within 2ft in a tournament. 

 

The biggest problem with club tournaments is slow play. And the biggest time waster is having people do their song-and-dance within a 2ft circle.  

 

A painted gimmie circle would save at least 15-20min per group and have no impact on standings. 

I’m perplexed by this post. You start out by saying you mark everything in a tournament and go through your entire routine for a 16 inch putt. Then you go on to say the biggest issues with club tourneys is slow play and the worst offenders are those who do their routine within 2 feet. 
 

Am I missing something here or are you just admitting that you are part of the slow play problems in tournaments? 

[MelloYello]

Gimmes have become a real common thing in several of the groups in which I play at my club. 

 

Their presence stems from one ugly fact....nobody is as good as they should be at short putts. The illusion the PGA Tour creates that 3-footers are "easy" is a myth. Given that most golfers never practice them, it's amazing anyone walks around thinking a 3-footer should be made at a 90% clip. 

 

Everyone is going to miss more than their fare share, especially weekend golfers. It's merely a question of who will missed the fewest. I missed 5 putts today inside 5-ft. When things go poorly in golf from short range, things often spiral. 

 

And so you get the presence of gimmes in groups that are hoping to avoid the unnecessarily painful day where someone gets exposed. 

 

Most people will spare themselves the embarassment / frustration and concede a 3-footer knowing the favor will be returned, often several times over. 

 

IMHO, it's alright to concede a 6-in or 12-in putt to keep up the pace, but it's a slippery slope. Anything 2-ft or beyond should be out of the question if you want to play it right but by the time you get half-way thru the back-9, 2-ft has become "nothing more than a 3-putt hits the card so blast that 2nd putt as hard as you want." 

 

I've seen guys knock a 5-footer, 5-ft past the hole and rake it because I guess in their minds it's unthinkable to 3-putt from such close range. 

[DLiver]

On 4/19/2022 at 4:17 PM, HoosierHacker89 said:

I've always been told "in the leather" was the putter head to the grip not length of the grip. Interesting how things vary. 

You are correct. But the term is "inside the leather." Somehow in recent years, it has been called "in the leather." which has never made much sense to me.

[DLiver]

On 4/14/2022 at 11:14 PM, 2bGood said:

I play allot of stroke play competitive rounds - around 40 a year. And then I a play about 90 competitive match play rounds. Toss in 20 or so fun rounds. So about 110 of my rounds involve conceded putts. Given this you would assume I would have trouble shooting my cap in stroke play events. I don't. I actually skew a little lower than my average score in competition. Not saying I roll in to a stroke play event and dominate it 😏 just saying they line up nearly identical to my match play scores, or about a stroke lower. 

 

Many of the guys I play with are the same way. For what it is worth we do play real match play where putts are not conceded on a whim. 

This has been my experience as well.

 

I am in favor of gimmies, because it definitely speeds up the game (isn't golf slow enough already? Does anyone enjoy standing there waiting to hit a shot?). In competitions, there are no gimmies.

 

I play in a group that tries to "crack down" on gimmies from time to time. This is a group that takes mulligans off the first tee, rolls the ball out of divots, etc etc. Hell you're not even playing golf already--why make a fuss about gimmies lol

[huskydawg]

4 hours ago, MelloYello said:

And so you get the presence of gimmes in groups that are hoping to avoid the unnecessarily painful day where someone gets exposed. 

 

Most people will spare themselves the embarassment / frustration and concede a 3-footer knowing the favor will be returned, often several times over. 

This is exactly right.  The group I play with does exactly this because of embarrassment.

 

Last year when I had a poor stretch of putting, I just said to heck with all of you, I'm putting everything out.  Why wouldn't putting a 2 footer be good practice for putting 3 footers?  This is particularly true on tough greens.  Even if it's just 6 inches, it gives me a good feeling to see it going in.  Also, by doing it this way, I assume I have to make them all and don't have to distract myself by looking at the others to see if it's good. 

 

Lastly, the group tends to be more generous with older folks over the younger people for gimmes which is also garbage.

Edited May 16, 2022 by huskydawg

[dan360]

Most people suck at putting.   Gimmes just make it easier to suck at putting. 

[straightshot7]

3 hours ago, MelloYello said:

Gimmes have become a real common thing in several of the groups in which I play at my club. 

 

Their presence stems from one ugly fact....nobody is as good as they should be at short putts. The illusion the PGA Tour creates that 3-footers are "easy" is a myth. Given that most golfers never practice them, it's amazing anyone walks around thinking a 3-footer should be made at a 90% clip. 

 

Everyone is going to miss more than their fare share, especially weekend golfers. It's merely a question of who will missed the fewest. I missed 5 putts today inside 5-ft. When things go poorly in golf from short range, things often spiral. 

 

And so you get the presence of gimmes in groups that are hoping to avoid the unnecessarily painful day where someone gets exposed. 

 

Most people will spare themselves the embarassment / frustration and concede a 3-footer knowing the favor will be returned, often several times over. 

 

IMHO, it's alright to concede a 6-in or 12-in putt to keep up the pace, but it's a slippery slope. Anything 2-ft or beyond should be out of the question if you want to play it right but by the time you get half-way thru the back-9, 2-ft has become "nothing more than a 3-putt hits the card so blast that 2nd putt as hard as you want." 

 

I've seen guys knock a 5-footer, 5-ft past the hole and rake it because I guess in their minds it's unthinkable to 3-putt from such close range. 

Ya that's why there are at least two forms of "golf":

 

1) Actual golf by the rules

 

2) Golf with gimmies and other things outside the rules 

 

like you said gimmies are a slippery slope...we can find a downhill 2-3 foot putt with 6 inches of break that even pros will miss a decent percentage of the time. 

 

It's impossible to know if things are truly fair, unless you just play by the actual rules...

 

But, some guys/groups like to play by their own set of rules (gimmies, breakfast balls, etc.) - - - and that's perfectly fine. But it can't be applied to large groups or across a tournament. 

Edited May 16, 2022 by straightshot7

[MelloYello]

8 hours ago, straightshot7 said:

...we can find a downhill 2-3 foot putt with 6 inches of break that even pros will miss a decent percentage of the time. 

 

Well, gimmes are still based on the other person "conceding" it, so putts like that are always putted out. Good golfers aren't going to rake (or concede) the type of tough putt you describe.

 

It's the straight, flat 3-footer that gets raked or conceded because it's "easy." The problem is that a straight, flat 3-footer is not easy unless you practice putting a lot and make those routine. For someone over 60yo, there's no such thing as practice and therefore they often don't even attempt these on the back-9. They'll miss 1 or 2 on the front, curse the greens and then proceed to just rake them. 

 

 

Again, Pro's make these 3-foot "tap-ins" look far easier than they really area. Personally, I believe the hole should be larger for Ams. I think drivers are comically oversize and the hole is impractically small. Recreational golf courses are making life way too hard on the Am by using the standard 4.25" cup. If a hole was 6" in diameter, then a 3-footer really would be a tap-in and a lot of the unnecessary stress of a 3-footer would be gone.

 

Again, nobody gets pleasure from a 3-footer, only pain. It's not something we ought to embrace in golf. Nobody wants to win because their opponent missed a 3-footer. Nobody wants to lose because they did. It's the Achilles heel of golf. If you want to point to the silliest element of the game, it's the unnecessarily large number of strokes taken within a close proximity to the hole compared with the money / time spent to provide and play a much larger piece of real estate. 

 

A slightly larger hole would be a good way to alleviate a lot of the complaints about "gimmes." Nobody is going to rake a 6-footer on a 6-in hole...or at least it'd be easier to remind that person they have to putt out because it's a 6-footer. It's hard to make someone putt a 2-footer sometimes without being a jerk. 

[MelloYello]

11 hours ago, dan360 said:

Most people suck at putting.   Gimmes just make it easier to suck at putting. 

 

Based on my experience 95% of golfers at local clubs "suck" at putting (your words).

 

So it really becomes a question of whether we want to play golf formally or whether we want to eliminate the 2- and 3-foot putt altogether so nobody has to deal with it. Most of the golfers I see would miss at least 1, if not multiple, short putts were they forced to putt out all day long. 

 

I think you'd find that a very large % of the people would actually not mind if recreational golf eliminated putting inside 3-feet. The fact most people play this way, is evidence of that. 

 

2- and 3-footers only create stress, anxiety and ultimately pain. Nobody "benefits" in the eyes of most golfers so they abandon them altogether. It's part of the game they simply don't want to inherit and quite frankly, I don't blame them. 

 

Make the cup bigger and people will agree to putt out. Keep the cup small and recreational players will create their own games. 

Edited May 16, 2022 by MelloYello

[dan360]

No bigger holes.   Golf is supposed to be a challenge.   
 

Tired of catering to the lowest common denominators.    

[MelloYello]

9 minutes ago, dan360 said:

No bigger holes.   Golf is supposed to be a challenge.   
 

Tired of catering to the lowest common denominators.    

 

Then why not make it smaller? 

 

[huskydawg]

17 hours ago, MelloYello said:

2- and 3-footers only create stress, anxiety and ultimately pain. Nobody "benefits" in the eyes of most golfers so they abandon them altogether. It's part of the game they simply don't want to inherit and quite frankly, I don't blame them. 

Meh, it was their decision not to practice short putts, which is a skill that can be improved.  Missing is often a hint that they're not starting the ball on line.

 

Since switching to putting everything out, I've found that I make some from 8-15 that had a low chance of going in, which cancels out missing a short one.  Make the ones you should make + make 1 or 2 from downtown = lower scores.

[A.Princey]

 My gimme distance is about 1ft. Everybody in my normal group pretty much abides by that rule, as we are never in any real sanctioned events, or hardly ever. That’s the distance you might miss 1/30. Those odds aren’t worth the effort, if it means people are gonna complain about no gimmes at all. I feel like even most staunch rule jockeys, the stickler types, would be able to sleep at night with that. 

 

This brings me to my other point, I have rarely played with folks that hole everything out. I mean almost never! Pretty much anyone I play with or see playing on the course is picking up at some designated short distance to the hole. I’m sure these players do exist, but I cannot recall the last time I’ve ever seen it IRL. I’ve even seen some get ruffled when you tap stuff in right around the hole, like inches. Kinda funny. I, myself, don’t mind holing out everywhere, and I like practicing short putts. The game is supposed to test your nerve, why else play for score if you plan on stacking the deck in your favor from the very start?

 

Edited May 17, 2022 by A.Princey

[North Butte]

3 hours ago, A.Princey said:

The game is supposed to test your nerve, why else play for score if you plan on stacking the deck in your favor from the very start?

Golf is many things to many different people. You may want it to be a game that tests your nerves but obviously a few million short-putt-picker-uppers do not want that at all. 

 

In the big picture, if a golfer were to live his entire life picking up every single putt inside 2-1/2 feet and playing with other golfers who do the same don't you think he would still get 99% of the joy and benefit that the game has to offer? 

 

I think he does. Which is good because that's how an awful lot of golfers do live their lives. 

[MelloYello]

9 hours ago, huskydawg said:

Meh, it was their decision not to practice short putts, which is a skill that can be improved.  Missing is often a hint that they're not starting the ball on line.

 

Since switching to putting everything out, I've found that I make some from 8-15 that had a low chance of going in, which cancels out missing a short one.  Make the ones you should make + make 1 or 2 from downtown = lower scores.

 

I totally agree here. 

 

I had a massive problem last year missing short putts and after I did a lot of work to fix it (as best I could) I've started making a lot more mid-length putts where as before, well, I never made any of those, LOL. 

[MelloYello]

5 hours ago, North Butte said:

Golf is many things to many different people. You may want it to be a game that tests your nerves but obviously a few million short-putt-picker-uppers do not want that at all. 

 

In the big picture, if a golfer were to live his entire life picking up every single putt inside 2-1/2 feet and playing with other golfers who do the same don't you think he would still get 99% of the joy and benefit that the game has to offer? 

 

I think he does. Which is good because that's how an awful lot of golfers do live their lives. 

 

That's the funny thing. While most of us on here generally feel fine putting out and maybe even pride ourselves in the fact we're not afraid to do it--even if it means accepting a silly dropped shot here or there--I can honestly say that I almost never encounter anyone at clubs around here actually putting out if it's not a tournament. 

 

So if people here want to proclaim how awesome they are for how they putt out, that's great, but it doesn't seem to me that the other 90% of the golfing world aligns with that. 

 

The only exception I can think of are the guys who are <27yo and are still + indexes trying to be as good as they can. But they also never miss inside 3-ft either because they practice all the time and are proud of the fact their tap-in game is elite. Once they hit 30 and start to give up on the dream, they'll relax their standards, too. 

 

I honesty think it's just an age thing. Beyond 30, people are trying to find golf that works for them and feeling like crap because you missed 3 or 4 short putts and turned that 77 into an 80 or 81 isn't something anyone wants (or would wish on their playing partners). 

[Nels55]

On 5/16/2022 at 4:52 AM, MelloYello said:

For someone over 60yo, there's no such thing as practice

What?  I practice 3 footers all the time and I see plenty of other 'old' golfers doing the same on the practice green every day I am out there.

[huskydawg]

For most of my golfing career, I always teed it up trying to set a personal best.  If I have that magical round of even par 72 or under par round but took 5 gimmes, I know in my heart I took a shortcut and didn't really shoot that.  I would maybe pick them up if I was having a really lousy day for speed of play.  But over the last year, I've seen the benefits of knocking them all in.

[bobfoster]

On 5/17/2022 at 12:08 PM, Nels55 said:

What?  I practice 3 footers all the time and I see plenty of other 'old' golfers doing the same on the practice green every day I am out there.

Yes. Actually, I'm 64, but practice putting obsessively. Have a carpet in the living room (that stimps around 10, and has a slight left break), and a putting mat in my office. Common to have conference calls on speaker, and putt through the whole call. Especially in the winter when I can't play. Probably hit several thousand putts over the course of any winter. 

[bobfoster]

I just play by the RoG. Gimmies permissible during match play (and have to be given by the opponent, not just taken because the player decides to). Not permissible during stroke play. But unless it is for money, as with most things on the golf course, I care absolutely zero what anyone else does. 

 

Personally, I like the RoG because playing by them greatly adds to my satisfaction after a good round. What joy is there in shooting 72 if you know the card is full of mulligans, foot wedges, and gimmies? I rarely play competitively any longer - play the strict RoG entirely for my own pleasure. 

 

And so far as gimmies - I don't take them for two reasons.

 

The first being that at the most basic of all levels, golf is standing on a tee box, with a club and a little ball, and looking at a hole at the other end of the fairway - the point being to put the ball in the hole. Picking up the ball when you are two feet from the hole would feel - to me - as weird as watching a football team march 90 yards down the field, get 1st and 10 on the two yard line, and just take that as a gimmie. Yes, as with holing a two foot putt, probably 95% of the time it will be a touchdown, but the whole point of the game is to get it over the actual goal line. 

 

Second, why would I deprive myself of the chance to hear and see the ball go into the cup? It isn't something I begrudgingly have to do, it is some I get to do.

 

And BTW, I've never been accused of slowing the game down. I do have a repeatable routine for every putt (as all decent golfers do) - mark the ball, read the line, align the ball line, one practice swing, then putt - but certainly don't go through the thing for a one or two foot putt (unless its some weird hole location). Come to think of it, the pros do the same thing. They all have very precise putting routines (some elaborate enough to be quite irritating to watch), but will rarely go through the whole routine for a one foot putt.

 

PS. Talking about making the hole larger is simply never going to happen. It has been 4.25" since the 1800s. In the late 1700s/early 1800s, there really were no standards - in fact you could find different sized holes on the same course. One Scottish course standardized on 4.25 sometime around 1830 (if I remember right), it started spreading, and finally in the 1890s (I think) the R&A officially adopted it as a universal standard. So we play a game with over three centuries of history, and since standardization, the golf hole has never been anything other than 4.25". Thinking the R&A/USGA would even consider changing something so fundamental to make the game "easier" for amateurs is just silliness. Its a moot point.

 

It is possible to make it look larger however. I have practice holes at home and in my office - and they are very deliberately 3.75", not 4.25. Slightly smaller (but quite noticeable). I hit vastly more putts at my practice holes than on courses (an 18 hole round might have 40 putts, but I can hit 40 putts on my practice mat in all of 15 minutes) - so my brain is wired to hit a 3.75" hole. When I get on a golf course, the hole actually feels really big. 

Edited May 18, 2022 by bobfoster

[bobfoster]

On 5/15/2022 at 7:49 PM, DLiver said:

You are correct. But the term is "inside the leather." Somehow in recent years, it has been called "in the leather." which has never made much sense to me.

 

Yes - inside the leather means the distance from the club head to the beginning of the grip. Bit of history? When I first started playing (and likely long before that) you'd commonly see people actually put the clubhead in the hole (they were all blades at the time - the first mallet didn't appear until the early 90s), and the shaft next to the ball. if the ball was anywhere next to the grip, it wasn't a gimmie. If it was "inside the leather", it was. Is where the term actually came from.

 

Don't really see anyone doing that anymore (though some of the older guys here probably remember seeing this), probably because for one, a lot of the modern mallet putter heads literally couldn't fit in the hole, and also because greenskeepers seriously frowned on chewing up the edges of holes. 

Edited May 18, 2022 by bobfoster

[Yuck]

On 5/15/2022 at 7:49 PM, DLiver said:

You are correct. But the term is "inside the leather." Somehow in recent years, it has been called "in the leather." which has never made much sense to me.

In the leather is the length of the grip.  Inside the leather is from the putter head top to the grip.  Some will give putts inside your shoe size.  One group claimed gimmies were ok as long as they were inside your “manhood”.  (I did not see anyone take a gimmie that day).

[Krt22]

I finally experienced the guy who fishes for gimmes and get's pissed when he misses em. If you leave a 15 footer 3 feet short, I am definitely not giving you that 3 footer. Then when you yip that 3 footer and don't even scare the hole, I am not giving you the next one either lol

[DaveLeeNC]

On 5/15/2022 at 7:38 PM, StudentGolfer4 said:

I'm perplexed by this post. You start out by saying you mark everything in a tournament and go through your entire routine for a 16 inch putt. Then you go on to say the biggest issues with club tourneys is slow play and the worst offenders are those who do their routine within 2 feet. 
 

Am I missing something here or are you just admitting that you are part of the slow play problems in tournaments?

 

Something of an old post in this  thread that I am responding to, but it really points out the issue as it affects me. If I have a 16 inch putt I have to take it as seriously as a four foot putt, or I risk missing a meaningful amount more of them than I would otherwise. In strictly casual play guys are walking off the green, maybe the group behind us is waiting to hit, and there I am lining up a putt. Just the way it is. 

 

dave

[Curmudg3on]

Our usual foursome was pretty lazy about giving putts.  A few weeks ago a suggestion was made adding $1.   Everyone puts in $1 at the start of the round.   Random numbers are drawn for each golf 1-4.    #1 starts with the $4 and at each 3 putt, the money transfers to the next number.    It's not much but it seems to keep everyone honest and puts a little pressure to not 3 putt.

[Oh Hi Carl]

I'm all for gimmies when the group ahead is holding up the whole course and each guy is marking his ball within two feet of the cup on each hole.  

[nsxguy]

On 4/29/2022 at 7:24 PM, jobin said:

Here, on tournament days with 50-90 players, we use the friendly 'give circle'. The 'give circle' is a thin white chalk line about 20 inches from the center of the cup, all around the hole.

 

If your ball falls within the circle, pick it up and add one to your score. Speeds up play greatly.  All know the rules and ball must sit in circle, not merely hang over.

 

And on the par 3 holes, if the tee shot  falls into the circle, big $$ payout (at some events).

 

Why ? Isn't that just a birdie ?

[SE Gamer]

Saw this firsthand caddying back in the day. Normal run of the mill rounds were gimmies galore for the members. But when club championship time came around, everyone became far less gracious. Never came to blows, but some very heated "discussions" arose out of putts missed that would normally have been given. 

 

When players go months not needing to actually make anything inside 2-ish feet. Having to suddenly putt everything out when there's glory on the line wreaked havoc on many of their games.

[gerger]

I could use more gummies so I don’t 3 putt so often! Maybe that’s why I don’t get them…

[sratacik]

I'm fairly relaxed on the course and it doesn't matter to me if someone wants to give themselves a putt or free drop but as soon as we play for money everything is by the book.