What are basic swing fundamentals for young juniors?

[Medson]

A little context. My daughter is 9 yo. She plays in tournaments and plays well (not elite by any mean). And she's improving. Hence, I guess we are past "just go out there and have fun" phase. 

 

One advise I often receive from parents of older junior golfers is "at her stage, swing as fast as the kid can. And keep swing basic (or have a solid foundation)." The first sentence is self explained. For second sentence, the consensus is setup is most important, e.g. grip, aim, alignment, etc. Beyond setup, it seems everyone has a different opinion on what constitutes as "basic swing fundamentals". Some say club path, some say impact, some say all the P positions. My head is exploding. 

 

What frustrates me is I also hear these parents (with good heart) say "my kid didn't pay attention on fundamentals when he/she was young. So we had to spend a lot of time later to fix the flaws." Hence, I'm paranoid and fear of missing out on not addressing these foundation flaws early. 

 

In summary, we do pay attention to her setup. Beyond that, my question 1) are these certain elements that are more core than others or 2) I should accept the fact that there are no consensus beyond setup?

 

 

[wildcatden]

1. Agree that setup is important. We called it BGAP (Ball position, Grip, Alignment, Posture).

2. Swing is the wildcard. You could have a kid who sings likes Matthew Wolff yet still gets the club back "in the slot" and "into a great impact position".

 

I would add that the right equipment should be used. Too heavy of heads or shafts could cause swing faults to develop over time. I made that mistake with my kids fairway woods for a summer. Fortunately, we changed out to light/appropriate equipment within 6 months. 
 

As far as swing fast, I would certainly put priority on that still at age 9.  It doesn't matter where it goes off the tee....just that it goes. 

 

Should be an interesting thread....

[ncalgolf]

1 hour ago, Medson said:

A little context. My daughter is 9 yo. She plays in tournaments and plays well (not elite by any mean). And she's improving. Hence, I guess we are past "just go out there and have fun" phase. 

 

One advise I often receive from parents of older junior golfers is "at her stage, swing as fast as the kid can. And keep swing basic (or have a solid foundation)." The first sentence is self explained. For second sentence, the consensus is setup is most important, e.g. grip, aim, alignment, etc. Beyond setup, it seems everyone has a different opinion on what constitutes as "basic swing fundamentals". Some say club path, some say impact, some say all the P positions. My head is exploding. 

 

What frustrates me is I also hear these parents (with good heart) say "my kid didn't pay attention on fundamentals when he/she was young. So we had to spend a lot of time later to fix the flaws." Hence, I'm paranoid and fear of missing out on not addressing these foundation flaws early. 

 

In summary, we do pay attention to her setup. Beyond that, my question 1) are these certain elements that are more core than others or 2) I should accept the fact that there are no consensus beyond setup?

 

 

I think there are core elements you can teach a child at a young age - the great things about kids is they learn extremely fast and in most cases can get their body into any position.  I'd get with a good coach you trust and work with them on the core elements

[Bizzle80]

My 9yo daughter is more focused on swing fundamentals than speed w her coach. He definitely pushes her to swing with more speed, but only in the context of keeping her swing into correct positions. works so far...shes competing with girls a year up and is hanging, but it shows that she basically hits every fairway and is as long/longer as girls significantly taller and bigger than her.

 

Thats not her speed but the fact she hits it dead in the center of the driver face nearly every time...amazing what center contact on a perfect path will do for your ball flight... I am down for speed focus, but since I'm not really trying to get her to go pro, im not really worried about pushing it.

[kekoa]

I would say true fundamentals are Grip, Alignment, Ball Position, and Posture.  Although each of these are important, I don't even look at these things when working with my son.  Probably the most important thing we work on is P2.  If he can get there right, I feel things just fall into place.  You are asking a loaded question and will get different answers from everyone you ask.  Key is to ask a golf coach their opinion and have them drill it into the junior so these 'fundamentals' become second nature and you are able to work more on real mechanics. 

[mojomover]

Really good question and something that I have struggled with as well, so following the thread closely. A few things that we try to focus on with my almost 10yr old is the same as shared above, BGAP (we call it PGA, Posture, Grip, Alignment) etc. His tendencies with these are mostly alignment (aims left, shoulder tends to be more open etc), and weight on his toes at address. His coach works on the swing mechanics but in general, hasn't really stressed speed as much.

 

One thing that I have observed is that most kids have decent backswings but downswing can be off especially under 10 as they tend to be more armsy and jumpy, because kids don't have core strength for the most part. We do try to fix those issues but it does take a lot of effort for us. 

 

 

[leezer99]

2 hours ago, kekoa said:

I would say true fundamentals are Grip, Alignment, Ball Position, and Posture.  Although each of these are important, I don't even look at these things when working with my son.  Probably the most important thing we work on is P2.  If he can get there right, I feel things just fall into place.  You are asking a loaded question and will get different answers from everyone you ask.  Key is to ask a golf coach their opinion and have them drill it into the junior so these 'fundamentals' become second nature and you are able to work more on real mechanics. 

 

PGA - Posture Grip & Alignment

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

On 4/27/2022 at 2:08 PM, Medson said:

A little context. My daughter is 9 yo. She plays in tournaments and plays well (not elite by any mean). And she's improving. Hence, I guess we are past "just go out there and have fun" phase. 

 

One advise I often receive from parents of older junior golfers is "at her stage, swing as fast as the kid can. And keep swing basic (or have a solid foundation)." The first sentence is self explained. For second sentence, the consensus is setup is most important, e.g. grip, aim, alignment, etc. Beyond setup, it seems everyone has a different opinion on what constitutes as "basic swing fundamentals". Some say club path, some say impact, some say all the P positions. My head is exploding. 

 

What frustrates me is I also hear these parents (with good heart) say "my kid didn't pay attention on fundamentals when he/she was young. So we had to spend a lot of time later to fix the flaws." Hence, I'm paranoid and fear of missing out on not addressing these foundation flaws early. 

 

In summary, we do pay attention to her setup. Beyond that, my question 1) are these certain elements that are more core than others or 2) I should accept the fact that there are no consensus beyond setup?

 

 

I think the last comment should fall in line with the first statement.

 

"Hence, I'm paranoid and fear of missing out on not addressing these foundation flaws early. "

 

First statement "Hence, I guess we are past "just go out there and have fun" phase. "

 

If she doesn't have fun. (period end of story)  she will find other activity or sport.

 

 

[Bizzle80]

I've found that even in keeping the focus on having fun...the better my kid has gotten...the more fun she has...and the more she wants to play. Its a great cycle.

 

She definitely plays more "golf shot" than "golf swing" with her coach and I think learning to manipulate the ball is a lot of fun for her. My buddy's little girl has a coach that just hammers her on picture perfect swing position fundamentals and she is definitely not having fun...

 

There are the stories of Phil basically teaching himself how to hit crazy short game shots thru trial and error...I think that type of challenge is fun for kids. We are doing more and more of that with my daughter. Sticking her balls into divots, behind trees, plugged into bunkers etc and letting her try to escape. She loves it...and now isn't fazed by bad lies in tournaments since nothing can be worse than what we were trying for fun.

 

I think kids love games...not repetitive lessons.

 

 

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

5 hours ago, Bizzle80 said:

I've found that even in keeping the focus on having fun...the better my kid has gotten...the more fun she has...and the more she wants to play. Its a great cycle.

 

She definitely plays more "golf shot" than "golf swing" with her coach and I think learning to manipulate the ball is a lot of fun for her. My buddy's little girl has a coach that just hammers her on picture perfect swing position fundamentals and she is definitely not having fun...

 

There are the stories of Phil basically teaching himself how to hit crazy short game shots thru trial and error...I think that type of challenge is fun for kids. We are doing more and more of that with my daughter. Sticking her balls into divots, behind trees, plugged into bunkers etc and letting her try to escape. She loves it...and now isn't fazed by bad lies in tournaments since nothing can be worse than what we were trying for fun.

 

I think kids love games...not repetitive lessons.

 

 

Amen.

 

One game my son still talks about is us trying to hit punch 4 irons under a limb and thru a fork in the tree as a window.  We played for hours.

[tiger1873]

12 hours ago, TripleBogeysrbetter said:

Amen.

 

One game my son still talks about is us trying to hit punch 4 irons under a limb and thru a fork in the tree as a window.  We played for hours.

 

Doing this sort of thing doesn't save many strokes a round.  It fine to practice  and I admit can be fun but the reality is trying to hit a shot through a fork in the tree is a low percentage shot and if it hits the tree you are worse off.

 

One thing we have done to stop making stupid decisions on the course is find bad situations like under the tree or behind the tree and hit 2 shots. 1 a punch out and 1 go for it.  By doing this they learn pretty quick when going for it makes no sense.

 

You're much better learning how to shape shots and go over objects.  The most fundamental skill a junior needs to know is where the club face is and where it is at impact. 

[heavy_hitter]

Just don't follow the JuJu swing and you will be Ok!!

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

1 hour ago, tiger1873 said:

 

Doing this sort of thing doesn't save many strokes a round.  It fine to practice  and I admit can be fun but the reality is trying to hit a shot through a fork in the tree is a low percentage shot and if it hits the tree you are worse off.

 

One thing we have done to stop making stupid decisions on the course is find bad situations like under the tree or behind the tree and hit 2 shots. 1 a punch out and 1 go for it.  By doing this they learn pretty quick when going for it makes no sense.

 

You're much better learning how to shape shots and go over objects.  The most fundamental skill a junior needs to know is where the club face is and where it is at impact. 

You pretty much miss the whole point.  It was about the tragedy of hitting the ball low and going an area the 2 ft wide at the bottom or 4 ft wide at the top.

 

Why throw a football through a tire?  Tires don't play football.

 

Why throw to a bucket 50 yards away?

 

 

[BloctonGolf11]

20 hours ago, Bizzle80 said:

I've found that even in keeping the focus on having fun...the better my kid has gotten...the more fun she has...and the more she wants to play. Its a great cycle.

 

She definitely plays more "golf shot" than "golf swing" with her coach and I think learning to manipulate the ball is a lot of fun for her. My buddy's little girl has a coach that just hammers her on picture perfect swing position fundamentals and she is definitely not having fun...

 

There are the stories of Phil basically teaching himself how to hit crazy short game shots thru trial and error...I think that type of challenge is fun for kids. We are doing more and more of that with my daughter. Sticking her balls into divots, behind trees, plugged into bunkers etc and letting her try to escape. She loves it...and now isn't fazed by bad lies in tournaments since nothing can be worse than what we were trying for fun.

 

I think kids love games...not repetitive lessons.

 

 

Every Monday we go down and set up a target in this extra field by the practice field at the school I teach. We can hit a maximum of 75 yard shots here so he picks a distance for the day for the first shot, 50 balls, and tries to see how many he can land in a 6 foot radius of the target, any he doesn't land he aims to get into the 6 foot on the second shot. Lies are odd and this forces variety and experimentation. He loves Monday's and its not even at the course. Keep it fresh, fun, and engaging. His efficiency from inside 75 yards has gone way up.  

[tiger1873]

4 hours ago, TripleBogeysrbetter said:

You pretty much miss the whole point.  It was about the tragedy of hitting the ball low and going an area the 2 ft wide at the bottom or 4 ft wide at the top.

 

Why throw a football through a tire?  Tires don't play football.

 

Why throw to a bucket 50 yards away?

 

 

 

 

 

How does that help lower scores. Sure it might be fun but I guarantee you that this sort of thing will lose you strokes and cost you many wins.

 

A few year ago Jordan Speith Lost the Masters by 3 strokes. In the first 2 day he decided to pull a shot like you said and carded a 8 on the hole.   That mistake cost him the Masters and probably a lot of wins.

Edited April 29, 2022 by tiger1873

[heavy_hitter]

1 minute ago, tiger1873 said:

 

 

How does that help lower scores. Sure it might be fun but I guarantee you that this sort of thing will lose you rounds.

 

A few year ago Jordan Speith Lost the Masters by 3 strokes. In the first 2 day he decided to pull a shot like you said and carded a 8 on the hole.   That mistake cost him the Masters and probably a lot of wins.

It isn't about hitting the ball through the fork or even attempting to do it in tournament play.  It is about becoming a more precise ball striker by hitting that window.  Practice isn't always about hitting a few balls on the range and then playing.  There are several ways to practice that can make you a better player.  We will practice hitting over trees, around trees left and right, and through windows in trees as well.  Sometimes those shots are your only options.  If you don't have a memory bank to fall back on, you will never be able to pull them off "When" you need them.

[Medson]

Appreciate folks who took the time to respond.

 

I do want to clarify that my original question is specific to "basic swing fundamentals for young juniors". I'm not saying it is the only thing we work on or it is the most important thing we should work on. Nevertheless, it is a very specific question. 

 

Don't get me wrong. I love the responses, they are all really good. It'll be great to start another thread on how to structure effective practices. Some of the responses, e.g. instill fun into practices, situational shots, etc, are great for that topic.

 

Frankly, I think having an effective practice structure is more important than just working on swing fundamentals. However, going back to my original post, I have a very specific question. Based on the responses so far, it seems there's no consensus besides setup on what constitutes a basic swing fundamentals. 

 

 

[heavy_hitter]

30 minutes ago, Medson said:

Appreciate folks who took the time to respond.

 

I do want to clarify that my original question is specific to "basic swing fundamentals for young juniors". I'm not saying it is the only thing we work on or it is the most important thing we should work on. Nevertheless, it is a very specific question. 

 

Don't get me wrong. I love the responses, they are all really good. It'll be great to start another thread on how to structure effective practices. Some of the responses, e.g. instill fun into practices, situational shots, etc, are great for that topic.

 

Frankly, I think having an effective practice structure is more important than just working on swing fundamentals. However, going back to my original post, I have a very specific question. Based on the responses so far, it seems there's no consensus besides setup on what constitutes a basic swing fundamentals. 

 

 

Agree with Leezer.  Posture, Grip, Alignmet.  

[RmoorePE]

This is a good thread. 

 

I have some younger friends and their kids are 5-8 years younger than mine. Mine is a good golfer compared to the average kid (she is just run of the mill compared to the tournament kids) and so my friends are always asking me how to get them into golf. How to get them swinging and into it. I literally am at a loss because my daughter taught herself with me just telling her to swing harder/faster. 

 

I just made suggestions to my daughter about her grip i.e. "Lexi holds the club like this" and then show her a Instagram of someone she respects, who is not me.

 

So I am going to pay close attention to this one.

 

[Movingday]

agree everything starts with posture, grip, alignment. Then we focused on Learning Face control (open, closed), face strike (heel, center, toe), and ground contact (fat/thin). 
we do a lot of intentional “misses” hit on toe or heel, hit the ball right/left/straight. Starting off with small chip shots and progressing to full swings. Has been hugely beneficial in understanding how to get the club in a good spot at contact. The swing formed on its own as we did these things 

 

Edited April 29, 2022 by Movingday

[oz dee cee]

When I think fundamentals for kids I’m with the P.G.A crowd firstly but beyond that I think kids need to learn how to move powerfully, coordinated, in synch, athletically, dynamically, in balance and all those types of things.

 

And to obtain this I think you need to branch out of golf. So can your kid throw a baseball, football in an athletic manner. Can they swing a baseball bat and tennis racquet well. Can they kick a ball, soccer or punt style well. Are they considered a ‘natural’ or a ‘sporty’ kid? 

 

I think when kids learn early how to move their body effectively in various sporting contexts, it just opens up their ability to hit golf balls in the most appropriate, coordinated manner for their body type.

 

So I really feel, the above  IS a fundamental for good golf. And best learnt as a child. They’ll retain it forever. 
 

You see it all the time, sporting people who find golf late generally can play and pick it up well. Those less sporty through life look uncoordinated and generally don’t necessarily get much better or have a lower ceiling of ability. 
 

I know their is anomalies but as a whole, create an athlete not just a one trick pony. 
 

Luck. 

[Movingday]

1 hour ago, oz dee cee said:

When I think fundamentals for kids I’m with the P.G.A crowd firstly but beyond that I think kids need to learn how to move powerfully, coordinated, in synch, athletically, dynamically, in balance and all those types of things.

 

And to obtain this I think you need to branch out of golf. So can your kid throw a baseball, football in an athletic manner. Can they swing a baseball bat and tennis racquet well. Can they kick a ball, soccer or punt style well. Are they considered a ‘natural’ or a ‘sporty’ kid? 

 

I think when kids learn early how to move their body effectively in various sporting contexts, it just opens up their ability to hit golf balls in the most appropriate, coordinated manner for their body type.

 

So I really feel, the above  IS a fundamental for good golf. And best learnt as a child. They’ll retain it forever. 
 

You see it all the time, sporting people who find golf late generally can play and pick it up well. Those less sporty through life look uncoordinated and generally don’t necessarily get much better or have a lower ceiling of ability. 
 

I know their is anomalies but as a whole, create an athlete not just a one trick pony. 
 

Luck. 

Love this. Be an athlete 1st!

[Medson]

3 hours ago, oz dee cee said:

When I think fundamentals for kids I’m with the P.G.A crowd firstly but beyond that I think kids need to learn how to move powerfully, coordinated, in synch, athletically, dynamically, in balance and all those types of things.

 

And to obtain this I think you need to branch out of golf. So can your kid throw a baseball, football in an athletic manner. Can they swing a baseball bat and tennis racquet well. Can they kick a ball, soccer or punt style well. Are they considered a ‘natural’ or a ‘sporty’ kid? 

 

I think when kids learn early how to move their body effectively in various sporting contexts, it just opens up their ability to hit golf balls in the most appropriate, coordinated manner for their body type.

 

So I really feel, the above  IS a fundamental for good golf. And best learnt as a child. They’ll retain it forever. 
 

You see it all the time, sporting people who find golf late generally can play and pick it up well. Those less sporty through life look uncoordinated and generally don’t necessarily get much better or have a lower ceiling of ability. 
 

I know their is anomalies but as a whole, create an athlete not just a one trick pony. 
 

Luck. 

Love this! Cancel USK World now and gonna sign her up for bunch of sports camps! 

[kekoa]

On 4/29/2022 at 12:59 PM, heavy_hitter said:

Agree with Leezer.  Posture, Grip, Alignmet.  

You can almost disregard posture unless it is really off.  Grip and Alignment are very important.  I know a kid who wonders why he is hitting sweeping hooks.  Of course there are swing flaws, but I just looked at his grip (super strong) and alignment.  Kid was aiming 30yard right on every shot and was obviously swinging way right as well putting a significant amount of right to left spin on the ball.  Very hard to score like this. 

[heavy_hitter]

1 hour ago, kekoa said:

You can almost disregard posture unless it is really off.  

 

100% disagree with this.  There is a reason Professional Golfers work on posture in almost every training session.

[Medson]

34 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

100% disagree with this.  There is a reason Professional Golfers work on posture in almost every training session.

 

1 hour ago, kekoa said:

You can almost disregard posture unless it is really off.  

 

Just to make sure everyone is on the same page. In your eyes, what do you consider as part of "posture"? Personally, I feel posture is one of those terms that is pretty overloaded, meaning it is super obvious but it is probable everyone has slight definition of posture. 

[leezer99]

15 minutes ago, Medson said:

 

 

Just to make sure everyone is on the same page. In your eyes, what do you consider as part of "posture"? Personally, I feel posture is one of those terms that is pretty overloaded, meaning it is super obvious but it is probable everyone has slight definition of posture. 

Feet, hips and shoulders lined up with an athletic stance. You can setup open like JB Holmes or closed like Jesper as long as your lines match. 

[heavy_hitter]

3 minutes ago, leezer99 said:

Feet, hips and shoulders lined up with an athletic stance. You can setup open like JB Holmes or closed like Jesper as long as your lines match. 

I would agree with this.  It also changes from golfer to golfer.  Some guys are a little upright, other a little more bent over.  The slightest change in posture and you can go from hitting beautiful draws to push fades and pull draws.

[kekoa]

On 5/2/2022 at 11:07 AM, heavy_hitter said:

 

100% disagree with this.  There is a reason Professional Golfers work on posture in almost every training session.

Ok, how do you know they are working on posture?   asking for a friend.

[Righty to Lefty]

Grip, stance, and posture are not fundamentals of golf because they are open to interpretation and can be done in many ways.  A fundamental is the same for everyone, everyday, forever. Impact is fundamental...impact is boss and the faster that a golfer understands that the shot they intend to hit is what sets them up to the ball, the better.  We are all unique athletes and you are free to swing your swing and so long as you can reliably repeat your swing motion, you can learn to reliably aim it I assure you, but we are all subject to the same rules at impact.  The faster that a golfer truly understands d plane and the ball flight laws the steeper their learning curve will be because they will know what they are trying to accomplish prior to even hitting a given shot.  They will also be able to quickly interpret ball flight and adjust their location in relation to the ball from shot to shot to maintain leverage, which is the true essence of golf and makes consistency possible.  It is only required that you have a grip, a stance, and posture, and not a specific one, therefore these are not fundamentals.  Impact is not negotiable and that is where the focus should always remain, then to observing the resulting ball flight created, as this should be taught on day one, even to a rank beginner, regardless of their age. The faster "why did I hit that shot like that" is eliminated from a golfers vocabulary and changed to "I know exactly why that happened" the better.