Is putter fitting overrated?

[me05501]

3 minutes ago, nvr3putt said:

 

I completely agree with you here. Putting is 99% dependent on keeping the putter face within 1 degree of perpendicular to your putting line.

God help you if you believe getting fitted is going to make a difference on the course. 

 

 

I guess God is on my side! Maybe I should tithe from my winnings...

[SoCalTitleist]

Check back on this thread next year and everybody’s sig will have a different putter from today .  You will have your answer .

[nvr3putt]

20 minutes ago, me05501 said:

 

 

I guess God is on my side! Maybe I should tithe from my winnings...

 

Just spoke with God and he says to mail your offerings as cashiers checks to my PO box number.

BTW, you better be making more than minimum wage. 😁 

[North Butte]

I haven't taken video to prove it but I am virtually certain I do not stand in the same posture or have the same putting stroke on a 30-foot putt with eight feet of break as I do on a 4-foot dead straight one. If you put me indoors putting on a 4x8 foot mat and measure everything about my setup and stroke to the nearest fractions of degrees and inches you would not be measuring how I put on long and/or breaking putts. You might or might not get a realistic measurement of how I putt straight 4-footers, depending on how well I was able to mimic my in-game focus and concentration (or lack thereof). 

 

P.S. Without a fitting I can tell you what putter would work best on straight 4-footers. Ginormous jumbo grip, about a 500g clubhead, alignment aids out the gazoo and an 80-degree lie angle so I can bend over Michelle Wie tabletop style and sight right down the line. 

Edited June 13, 2022 by North Butte

[Double Mocha Man]

3 hours ago, North Butte said:

P.S. Without a fitting I can tell you what putter would work best on straight 4-footers. Ginormous jumbo grip, about a 500g clubhead, alignment aids out the gazoo and an 80-degree lie angle so I can bend over Michelle Wie tabletop style and sight right down the line.

 

I cannot un-see that...

[North Butte]

12 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

 

I cannot un-see that...

Especially with that golf ball in my back pocket.

[LeoLeo99]

I was fit for a putter two years ago but hardly use it.  Decided to give it a real go and use it for at least 6 rounds to see if it's the one for me.  Wednesday is the first round.  We shall see.  

[5hort5tuff]

4 hours ago, SoCalTitleist said:

Check back on this thread next year and everybody’s sig will have a different putter from today .  You will have your answer .

 

This is the truth right here. Most people (on wrx), fitted or not are switching all the time. 

[tsecor]

Putter fitting is extremely over rated and iron fitting is extremely over rated UNLESS you are a less than 8 HDCP (and thats being generous)......to me, thats where fitting can make a decent impact on your game. Anything above an 8 IMO is all swing related and this is where your $$$$ should be spent, not on fitted clubs, especially at a big box store.....and NEVER get fitted inside. 

 

If you get fitted, then your swing changes and improves, it renders your fitting useless.....to me its the biggest scam in the business.....unless you are "dialing in" as a really good player.....amateurs over a 6 or 8 really do not benefit from fittings

[North Butte]

15 minutes ago, tsecor said:

Putter fitting is extremely over rated and iron fitting is extremely over rated UNLESS you are a less than 8 HDCP (and thats being generous)......to me, thats where fitting can make a decent impact on your game. Anything above an 8 IMO is all swing related and this is where your $$$$ should be spent, not on fitted clubs, especially at a big box store.....and NEVER get fitted inside. 

 

If you get fitted, then your swing changes and improves, it renders your fitting useless.....to me its the biggest scam in the business.....unless you are "dialing in" as a really good player.....amateurs over a 6 or 8 really do not benefit from fittings

I think every player beyond a rank beginner who literally is trying the game for the first few times owes it to themselves to figure out what basic characteristics suit them physically. For irons I mean. Basically, how light a shaft can you swing and still feel the club and manage your tempo and is standard length and lie in the right ballpark to let you strike the ball without needing a contort your body unnecessarily. 

 

But I'm with you for a real fitting where you try to find a near-perfect set of specs, model of shaft, model of clubhead, etc., etc. That's not the kind of dialing-in that's particularly helpful to a 20hcp trying to improve his/her self down to a 12. That's digging it out of the dirt territory. 

[bluedot]

Overrated by whom?

 

This is no different than any other club fitting situation.  Even the best fitter can’t turn you into a great putter, and the extent to which you see improvement will depend on how well or poorly you previous putter fit you, combined with your practice habits.

 

So a lot of golfers will overrate ANY fitting, including putters, simply because they don’t understand the goal, which is to eliminate variables.  And, like other fittings, the importance of a competent, experienced fitter with proper equipment is just essential.
 

And, as with other fittings, results are subtle and somewhat hard to quantify.  If you become a SLIGHTLY better lag putter, how do you know?  When you make a putt, was it the putter? The read? Good luck?

 

All of that said, why would I have a bag full of fitted clubs, and NOT have a fitted putter? That makes less than no sense.

 

One final thought: What Tiger and the boys use isn’t relevant to you or me.  They are insanely gifted, and what they do isn’t available to me.  So what they USE has little or no bearing on me, whether it’s their putter, or any other club in the bag.  And there’s a good chance that if they played and practiced as little as most ams, they wouldn’t use the same equipment they use now.  And we won’t even get into what they might be using when THEY are on Social Security and Medicare…

 

 

[North Butte]

Putting style is so idiosyncratic, though. And the motion required doesn't take the strength, athletic ability and proprioception that a full golf swing does.

 

So if someone really wants to emulate Jack or Tiger in terms of how they set up to the ball, how they grip the putter, the style of stroke they use that is much more reasonable than trying to mimic their ability to hit long, high shots with a 4-iron. 

 

What I'm saying is, there's no harm in wanting to putt like Tiger and use a Newport exactly like Tiger's with a Pingman blacked-out grip. Unlike trying to swing his irons or driver or use his wedges. 

[me05501]

32 minutes ago, North Butte said:

Putting style is so idiosyncratic, though. And the motion required doesn't take the strength, athletic ability and proprioception that a full golf swing does.

 

So if someone really wants to emulate Jack or Tiger in terms of how they set up to the ball, how they grip the putter, the style of stroke they use that is much more reasonable than trying to mimic their ability to hit long, high shots with a 4-iron. 

 

What I'm saying is, there's no harm in wanting to putt like Tiger and use a Newport exactly like Tiger's with a Pingman blacked-out grip. Unlike trying to swing his irons or driver or use his wedges. 

 

Sure, I guess. But I think what most players really want is to make more putts and score better. 

 

Any reasonably accomplished player uses about half his strokes on the greens. It seems like most players would want to know if there was a simple equipment tweak that could help them hole more putts. Judging by these responses, that's not the case, which is rather insane if you think about it. 

[Cactus Jack]

I thought this was a funny pic. Two of the best putters to play the game going in opposite directions. I think this is a good example of fitting the club to the player vs. fitting the player to the club. 
 

[bluedot]

On 6/14/2022 at 10:41 AM, tsecor said:

Putter fitting is extremely over rated and iron fitting is extremely over rated UNLESS you are a less than 8 HDCP (and thats being generous)......to me, thats where fitting can make a decent impact on your game. Anything above an 8 IMO is all swing related and this is where your $$$$ should be spent, not on fitted clubs, especially at a big box store.....and NEVER get fitted inside. 

 

If you get fitted, then your swing changes and improves, it renders your fitting useless.....to me its the biggest scam in the business.....unless you are "dialing in" as a really good player.....amateurs over a 6 or 8 really do not benefit from fittings

If one guy is 6-2 and has a 34” sleeve and inseam, and another guy is 5-10 and has a 30” sleeve and inseam, is it likely that the same clubs will fit both equally well?  We wear shoes and clothes that fit us specifically; why would golf clubs, including putters, be different than that?  Every groomsman a a wedding was carefully measured to have a tux that fits HIM, and nobody else’s tux will fit him nearly as well.  I can’t think of a single valid reason that a basic fitting for lie angle, length, and shaft for golfers would be any different.

 

I don’t think a handicap ceiling for fitted clubs, including putters, is anything other than arbitrary.  Clubs that have the wrong lie angle can force a golfer into a too flat or too upright swing compensation, and clubs that are the wrong length can lead to poor posture at setup.  A 15 index needs MORE help from his equipment than a pro does, not less.

 

Also, the idea that fitting vs lessons is an “either-or” choice isn’t true, unless there are money issues.  A 15 index should be working on his swing for sure, but fitted clubs can only help that process because they reduce the compensations he might have to make.

[MattM97]

Here's a simple test that anyone can do at home or on the putting green. Get a ball and draw a straight line completely around the ball, or just buy some Srixon Divide balls. Go onto your carpet, putting mat or practice green, roll a few balls, if that bad boy isn't end over end or wobbles after a few putts your specs are off. If you can't get the ball to roll end over end without changing much in your stroke/setup it would be best to get your putter looked at. 

[North Butte]

8 minutes ago, MattM97 said:

Here's a simple test that anyone can do at home or on the putting green. Get a ball and draw a straight line completely around the ball, or just buy some Srixon Divide balls. Go onto your carpet, putting mat or practice green, roll a few balls, if that bad boy isn't end over end or wobbles after a few putts your specs are off. If you can't get the ball to roll end over end without changing much in your stroke/setup it would be best to get your putter looked at. 

When I took about my second or third golf lesson as a total beginner years ago, we got around to looking at my putting. He stuck a video camera on the green and put a ball with a red line around down for me to putt at a hole 10 feet away. It rolled end over end. That was with a broomstick putter I'd bought along with my first set of clubs.

 

Never did like the broomstick so I quickly picked up a conventional Ping Anser. Next lesson we repeated the test and again, from the first putt the ball was rolling end over end. 

 

Thus endeth the putter fitting. 40-something inch long, heavy broomstick anchored on my breastbone or 35 inch putter gripped in my hands. One way or another as long as I can get my eyes directly over the ball and rock my shoulders the ball will roll end over end for me.

 

I've rolled lined balls with various other putters over the years and the only time they don't roll end over end is when I'm getting my eyes way inside (or slightly outside) being directly over the ball. Nothing else seems to matter much, not length, not weight, not even the style of grip. And I've done it with lie angles from 70 degrees to 79 degrees. With the flatter lies the toe hangs down Stricker-style but the ball still rolls perfectly well. 

 

So you can see why I don't believe the finer details of putter fitting matter. As long as you can get into your optimum putting setup and make your normal stroke it'll work fine for rolling the ball. It's all down to what you have the best feel for distance with and what type of putter lets you align yourself properly on straight and breaking putts. That's best found on the practice green and the golf course, not on a matt in someone's putting studio.

[tsecor]

20 hours ago, bluedot said:

If one guy is 6-2 and has a 34” sleeve and inseam, and another guy is 5-10 and has a 30” sleeve and inseam, is it likely that the same clubs will fit both equally well?  We wear shoes and clothes that fit us specifically; why would golf clubs, including putters, be different than that?  Every groomsman a a wedding was carefully measured to have a tux that fits HIM, and nobody else’s tux will fit him nearly as well.  I can’t think of a single valid reason that a basic fitting for lie angle, length, and shaft for golfers would be any different.

 

I don’t think a handicap ceiling for fitted clubs, including putters, is anything other than arbitrary.  Clubs that have the wrong lie angle can force a golfer into a too flat or too upright swing compensation, and clubs that are the wrong length can lead to poor posture at setup.  A 15 index needs MORE help from his equipment than a pro does, not less.

 

Also, the idea that fitting vs lessons is an “either-or” choice isn’t true, unless there are money issues.  A 15 index should be working on his swing for sure, but fitted clubs can only help that process because they reduce the compensations he might have to make.

i disagree because the minute your swing improves and changes, the original fitting is null and void.....but its fine. we are all allowed our views. I just think fitting really only benefits a player who can replicate their swing over and over again.....like a robot.....

[MattM97]

8 minutes ago, tsecor said:

i disagree because the minute your swing improves and changes, the original fitting is null and void.....but its fine. we are all allowed our views. I just think fitting really only benefits a player who can replicate their swing over and over again.....like a robot.....

 

So if you make changes with an unfit set of irons it's somehow all fine and well? But the fitted ones stop working? 

[shanx]

I got fit for a putter this spring, after using Anser/Newport types for eons.

 

Fitting results said "face balanced, bigger grip". My stroke has very little arc, I have used Pingman grips for years.

 

After the fitting, I ran out and bought a few face balanced putters of different types and brands, bagged them for the season.

 

Last few nights I have been rolling putts with a few putters, my old Ping Anser was in the pile.

 

I made more putts with the Anser.

 

The face balanced putters look and feel so foreign to me, I'm considering bailing on them and going back to the trusted Anser/Newport type, but I feel like I'm betraying the science that lead me to face balanced.

 

In the end, I just want to make more putts!

[North Butte]

4 minutes ago, shanx said:

I got fit for a putter this spring, after using Anser/Newport types for eons.

 

Fitting results said "face balanced, bigger grip". My stroke has very little arc, I have used Pingman grips for years.

 

After the fitting, I ran out and bought a few face balanced putters of different types and brands, bagged them for the season.

 

Last few nights I have been rolling putts with a few putters, my old Ping Anser was in the pile.

 

I made more putts with the Anser.

 

The face balanced putters look and feel so foreign to me, I'm considering bailing on them and going back to the trusted Anser/Newport type, but I feel like I'm betraying the science that lead me to face balanced.

 

In the end, I just want to make more putts!

I've never had a putter fitting, other than my teaching pro video'ing me rolling putts with a certain putter to check my alignment and the roll I put on the ball. But I've putter for years at a stretch with two basic kinds. 1) Something like an Anser with either a Pingman grip or some other skinny grip. 2) Something heavier, face balanced with a fatter and/or no-taper grip. 

 

If you gave me a straight 4-foot putt with one try to make for a hundred bucks I'd rather have a heavy, face-balanced mallet with some kind of fat SuperStroke grip and a nice long line on the top. That is so easy to just rock my shoulders and send the ball on my intended line that it's nearly yip-proof (for me). 

 

So I'd expect a putter fitting to give me the same recommendation like you. I make fewer alignment errors (on short-ish, straight-ish putts) and it minimizes any tendency to open the putter up and yank it behind me on the takeaway. It's the safe, solid, dependable type of putter. One short-ish, straight-ish putts, that is. 

 

But I've kept Strokes Gained stats over lots of round with both types and the stroke or so per round that those style putters save me on putts inside 6 feet are offset by the fact that I'm at least a stroke a round better on longer putts with a light Anser with skinny grip. I have no feel for distance with the heavy high-MOI mallet and on big breaking putts I tend to oversteer the alignment aid rather than letting my stroke flow. So my lag control is better AND I make more 20+ footers with the Anser.

 

But it's a tough call. There's a lot to be said for being solid over 3, 4, 5 foot putts of which most of us will have quite a few per round. Being good at those take pressure off your short game and even takes pretty off your long lag putting. And in my data, it's darned near a wash between the two types. But since putting feels freer and better with the Anser and I'm either breaking even or slightly benefiting overall in SG terms that's what I generally use. 

 

P.S. I do have a high-MOI, heavy Taylormade mallet in the closet for those times when I go through a spell of getting a bit yippy on the 2-3 footer. It's nice to be able to revert to that for a few weeks until the nerves settle down!

[bluedot]

4 hours ago, tsecor said:

i disagree because the minute your swing improves and changes, the original fitting is null and void.....but its fine. we are all allowed our views. I just think fitting really only benefits a player who can replicate their swing over and over again.....like a robot.....

As an example, take a look at the static fitting parameters that Ping has used for many years now.  Your swing MIGHT (or might not…) change your specs, but you wrist to floor measurements don’t, nor does your height, etc.  

 

And none of that even touches on the problem of off-the-rack clubs not fitting and causing bad swings as ams try to compensate.

 

NOT doing a fitting because I MIGHT take lessons and those lessons MIGHT change my swing so much that my clubs no longer fit isn’t the recipe for me.  And I’m including putters in this so as not to threadjack.

[North Butte]

I think if you're a beginner, any golf coach or teaching pro who is competent can assess whether the clubs you're using are terribly mis-suited to you and causing problems. I'd much rather see a beginner or near-beginner get a "close enough" fit from the person helping them learn to swing than see them potentially waste a lot of time and money doing some sort of launch monitor based complete fitting that is supposed to be able to tell a golfer an exact recipe for ideal clubs. 

[creerski]

A putter is almost the one club in the bag I'd suggest can fully be picked/played without a proper fitting.  It is possible to find a head shape that suits your eye then fit into the hosel that suits your stroke (i.e. mid-arc, wide-arc, straight back/through).

But it is also much easier to change your putting stroke to "fit yourself" into a putter than it is to change a full swing for other clubs - I can't advise this as the best approach unless your stroke could use some TLC.

[tsecor]

21 hours ago, bluedot said:

As an example, take a look at the static fitting parameters that Ping has used for many years now.  Your swing MIGHT (or might not…) change your specs, but you wrist to floor measurements don’t, nor does your height, etc.  

 

And none of that even touches on the problem of off-the-rack clubs not fitting and causing bad swings as ams try to compensate.

 

NOT doing a fitting because I MIGHT take lessons and those lessons MIGHT change my swing so much that my clubs no longer fit isn’t the recipe for me.  And I’m including putters in this so as not to threadjack.

lol....thats cool I get it and understand we all come at this from different angles. Pings fitting model from 20 years ago is so basic and outdated, i just dont see it being that relevant with todays modern fitters and technology...ive played fitted clubs and clubs off the rack and as a 12 hdcp, ive never seen an improvement with any type of "fittings"...to me its more for the really really good players to get dialed in....not for anything in my category

[Cactus Jack]

I just came across the video below. Loft seems like one fitting component everyone can benefit from. 
 

 

[Phabs]

On 6/15/2022 at 2:59 PM, MattM97 said:

Here's a simple test that anyone can do at home or on the putting green. Get a ball and draw a straight line completely around the ball, or just buy some Srixon Divide balls. Go onto your carpet, putting mat or practice green, roll a few balls, if that bad boy isn't end over end or wobbles after a few putts your specs are off. If you can't get the ball to roll end over end without changing much in your stroke/setup it would be best to get your putter looked at. 

BuT iT dOEsNt MatTeR … aLLs tHAT mAtTerS iz iF iT goEz iN thA hOLe…..

[RainShadow]

I've always felt that putting was purely a feel and look kinda of thing.

I putted with 34" flow neck or L neck answer style putters forever. They just appealed to my eye and felt "natural" to me.

Steered away from mallets as they always seemed to "draw" my eyes back on takeaway, and most were face balanced which led me to miss left.

I've always been a decent putter, but found myself burning edges more and more as I got older. 

Then I did a fitting and found two things that improved my results immediately.

They (CC) put me in a 33" hit MOI mallet with a little toe hang (see sig for current putters) and added loft to 4.5* and I saw instant results, starting putts on line much better now that my eyes were over the ball/line.

I still don't think I could use a non "fang" type mallet, but the #7 style heads don't seem to distract me as much as the solid bigger headed mallets do.

 

 

 

Edited June 18, 2022 by RainShadow

[Unteachable]

Ive had 2 putter fittings done on SAM-both done about 2 months apart when i was struggling last year.  Both came back with similar recommendations and my stroke and path were similar.

 

Things you have to figure out on your own that the fittings won't tell you- total weight, swing weight/balance, milled vs insert, grip, length are best done through trial and error.  I went through 10 putters after my fittings before I found the one- all of which met my "specs" from the fitting.  Big mallets, half mallets, center shaft, weight forward, weight back.

 

It took me about 8 putters to decide I did not want an insert and it didn't dawn on me to try something lighter than 365 grams until the end.

When I got a milled 350 gram mallet (phantom x5) I pretty much instantly began putting better.

I was around 36-37 putts/round mostly last year with an occasional low 30s.

I have not been above 33 with the new one and have had 5 rounds in the upper 20's, including an all time best 26 putts on thursday when i shot my personal best 70.

 

I am totally convinced that I was putting with too heavy of a putter for the last few years and that is the main issue along with I feel like i had lost the touch and ability to release the putter with the superstroke grips so Im back to more normal ones (another thing learned through trial and error).

 

You are never going to be able to tell on a 10 foot SAM putt if a certain weight putter is best for you on the course.  But you can get an idea of your stroke and face control and then find the right putter on the course.

 

I definately recommend one of the shops with a 90 day guarantee.  Every putter i tested last year with the exception of 1 was brand new.  It was expensive but those 90 day exchange helped decreased the costs some.

 

It was pretty exhausting going through that many putters to find something I like.  But I was being held back by my putting so much I was miserable.  Terrible distance control and always leaving the face open.  All fixed with a lighter putter

[MattM97]

7 hours ago, Phabs said:

BuT iT dOEsNt MatTeR … aLLs tHAT mAtTerS iz iF iT goEz iN thA hOLe…..

 

True but most can't get it to the hole to begin with.