Limiting my hip rotation in the backswing has cleaned up my ball striking a ton.....

[Lefty_3Jack]

I thought "limiting hip rotation" would get the people going since it seems universal here that it's the worst thing in the world to ever do.  Are my hips rotating in the backswing, yes.  Are they rotating later, slower and overall less than before, absolutely.  In reality, I'm probably just getting my upper body/lower body/arms synced up, but the "feel" is don't move your hips in the backswing at all.  

 

Trying to get videos up now.  Purpose of the post was to get some feedback as well as provide some experience of someone that "limited" hip rotation in the backswing with great results.  

[Lefty_3Jack]

 

 

 

 

[dsmil]

I've been doing a similar thing in order to get my lower and upper body more synched to each other and to limit my inside takeaway a bit.  I keep my hips more still until they naturally want to start turning once I'm closer to lead arm parallel.  I haven't seen actual results from doing this yet, other than looking more in sync.  

 

Your changes look similar to mine.  Have you noticed any changes in swing speed?  My driver swing speed has dropped and I can't figure it out if it has something to do with this or something else.

Edited June 15, 2022 by dsmil

[Z1ggy16]

You have a before and after when it comes to the actual relationship between spine/chest rotation and hips? 

 

I worry if you're really seeing a huge differential that you'll also be cleaning up your bank account later via a back surgeon or endless rounds of PT. 

[TheDeanAbides]

 Leadbetter taught this in the 80s and 90s. It didn’t go great for his players. 😣

Edited June 15, 2022 by TheDeanAbides

[ryan84]

Before swing looks way better imo.

[Lefty_3Jack]

13 minutes ago, ryan84 said:

Before swing looks way better imo.

It's prettier no doubt, but the contact wasn't.  If I wasn't so laid off on the after it would look much better.  Been working on more wrist set early to get it in a better position. 

[SHAFUA]

the hip turn on the after video looks a decent amount. 

 

classic example of feel v real

[RichieHunt]

IMO it looks like you had some similar issues that I had.  I used to turn the hips too much, too soon.  The trail arm gets too far behind and too far above the lead arm in the backswing and the trunk tilts too far forward (towards the ball).  Can be very difficult to control the low point from there.   It also looks like you're standing a hair closer to the ball at address.  I used to stand too far away from the ball and the trail arm just works very differently when one stands further away from the ball.

 

What I found was that you didn't really need to restrict the hip turn, but get what Dr. Kwon calls the 'shurn.'  Make a pressure shift without moving your head too much before you even take the club back.  Then as the pressure shift is made off the ball, you turn.  It's just a little later turn.  The other thing that helped me was not turning the left shoulder down so much so early.  This way I could get more of a pivot and less arm action and the trunk would not have so much forward tilt.

 

 

 

 

RH

[Lefty_3Jack]

20 minutes ago, RichieHunt said:

IMO it looks like you had some similar issues that I had.  I used to turn the hips too much, too soon.  The trail arm gets too far behind and too far above the lead arm in the backswing and the trunk tilts too far forward (towards the ball).  Can be very difficult to control the low point from there.   It also looks like you're standing a hair closer to the ball at address.  I used to stand too far away from the ball and the trail arm just works very differently when one stands further away from the ball.

 

What I found was that you didn't really need to restrict the hip turn, but get what Dr. Kwon calls the 'shurn.'  Make a pressure shift without moving your head too much before you even take the club back.  Then as the pressure shift is made off the ball, you turn.  It's just a little later turn.  The other thing that helped me was not turning the left shoulder down so much so early.  This way I could get more of a pivot and less arm action and the trunk would not have so much forward tilt.

 

 

 

 

RH

 

No conscious change in distance away from the ball.  Having seen your motion, I agree that we both tilted early in the BS with lots of hip turn by time P3 came around.  I've too worked on keeping my lead shoulder higher on the takeaway but couldn't carry it to the course.  Keeping that lead shoulder higher and allowing the trail arm to bend earlier will keep the hips from turning so early as well.   

 

 

[RichieHunt]

6 minutes ago, Lefty_3Jack said:

 

No conscious change in distance away from the ball.  Having seen your motion, I agree that we both tilted early in the BS with lots of hip turn by time P3 came around.  I've too worked on keeping my lead shoulder higher on the takeaway but couldn't carry it to the course.  Keeping that lead shoulder higher and allowing the trail arm to bend earlier will keep the hips from turning so early as well.   

 

 

 

I tried to keep my lead shoulder higher as well during the winter and it led to disastrous results.  I started to figure out that I just need to do more turning than tilting until about p2-ish.  After p2, I start to incorporate equal parts turn and tilt as the trail hip starts to get higher than the lead hip.  It also started to figure out that really the pivot can do most of the work and the arms are almost just there for the ride.

 

My main focus, besides Dr. Kwon displaying how the body turns, is to turn the lead seamline of my pants and shirt.  As it turns into p2 and I try to keep somewhat 'centered', the forward tilt will kick in to allow me to turn while staying centered.

 

 

 

 

 

RH

[Lefty_3Jack]

18 minutes ago, RichieHunt said:

 

I tried to keep my lead shoulder higher as well during the winter and it led to disastrous results.  I started to figure out that I just need to do more turning than tilting until about p2-ish.  After p2, I start to incorporate equal parts turn and tilt as the trail hip starts to get higher than the lead hip.  It also started to figure out that really the pivot can do most of the work and the arms are almost just there for the ride.

 

My main focus, besides Dr. Kwon displaying how the body turns, is to turn the lead seamline of my pants and shirt.  As it turns into p2 and I try to keep somewhat 'centered', the forward tilt will kick in to allow me to turn while staying centered.

 

 

 

 

 

RH

Think turn, not tilt, I like it!  

 

Any suggestions for getting that backswing not so laid off?  I've always had an issue with it getting too flat/laid off at the top, but it's really bad now.  I'm hitting it great right now though so I'm not sure I want to chase vanity vs the results!

[Krt22]

What does the face on look like

[MonteScheinblum]

The hips move last in a proper backswing.

The hip turn needs some tilt.

 

You probably got some of that with your feel, but long term, feeling restricting the hip turn will go south.

 

If you don’t like laid off you need to address wrist movements not restricting hip turn.  More vertical hinge in your case.

Edited June 15, 2022 by MonteScheinblum

[MK7Golf21]

another feel that can help is on the backswing feeling a turning into your left glute and deep instead of just a turn where you left glute ends up going towards the target too much. This is more of a pivot vs. just turning.

[ezpz]

I had a similar issue but mine was caused by having weight in the heels at setup and then immediately turning the hips and clubs in... So not necessarily restrict the hip turn. just move weight and pressure around differntly.

[i*windows]

2 hours ago, Lefty_3Jack said:

Think turn, not tilt, I like it!  

 

Any suggestions for getting that backswing not so laid off?  I've always had an issue with it getting too flat/laid off at the top, but it's really bad now.  I'm hitting it great right now though so I'm not sure I want to chase vanity vs the results!

I have a similar laid off position and is caused by the wrists, you have to feel like the right wrist for a lefty cups in the takeaway, or use malaskas idea of the corner drill which helps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HwvbBmAgW4

[phizzy30]

10 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

 Leadbetter taught this in the 80s and 90s. It didn’t go great for his players. 😣

Are we talking the "X factor" here?  I believe Ty Tryon(Leadbetter student) was into this concept.  His pro career didn't exactly turn out great.  For me, I think limiting/restricting hip rotation during the back swing isn't necessarily a good thing.  Over rotating the hips also doesn't bode well but some golfers like John Daly have managed.

Edited June 16, 2022 by phizzy30

[TheDeanAbides]

15 minutes ago, phizzy30 said:

Are we talking the "X factor" here?  I believe Ty Tryon(Leadbetter student) was into this concept.  His pro career didn't exactly turn out great.  For me, I think limiting/restricting hip rotation during the back swing isn't necessarily a good thing.  Over rotating the hips also doesn't bode well but some golfers like John Daly have managed decent. 

It’s just so bad for the body and has no discernible advantages. Throw it in the sea.

[tthomasgolfer605]

For those of you who don't know, Jack Nicklaus said tour players were trying the restricted hip turn in the 70's. It was basically something players were trying for whatever reason (maybe the less moving parts stuff). Jack quickly discarded it from his brain because any amount of shoulder turn will move the hips unless you're some kind of contortionist. Even if you did have that type of flexibility, there still be no reason to do it. 

[golfarb1]

2 hours ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

For those of you who don't know, Jack Nicklaus said tour players were trying the restricted hip turn in the 70's. It was basically something players were trying for whatever reason (maybe the less moving parts stuff). Jack quickly discarded it from his brain because any amount of shoulder turn will move the hips unless you're some kind of contortionist. Even if you did have that type of flexibility, there still be no reason to do it. 

Jack Nicklaus is hardly the best example of hip turn , given that he suffered from hip pain in the later part of his career and had to undergo a complete left hip replacement  surgery at the relatively “ young” age of 59. 
Davis Love3 is another example of golfers who did not restrict his hip turn , yet he had left hip replacement surgery at the very “young “age of 53. 
So is Tom Watson , another golfer who did not restrict his hip turn , yet had replacement surgery on his left hip at the age of 59. 
 

Edited June 15, 2022 by golfarb1

[naval2006]

9 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

 Leadbetter taught this in the 80s and 90s. It didn’t go great for his players. 😣

Been thinking of Nick Faldo lately. 

[Lefty_3Jack]

The term “restrict hip turn” was plenty enough fodder for most of you to immediately say “bad”! You didn’t look at the video to see my hips were turning in the backswing (they have to), just later and not as much. This the entire reason I posted it. Hell, Monte’s NTC video even mentioned that people turn their hips too early and too much in the backswing! 

[golfarb1]

There is an obvious change  for the BETTER in your pelvis rotation . Notice the specific differences between the two swings at 9:00 going back -in the older picture  your trail leg is almost straight ,there is too large a gap between your knees ,  your weight is into left  heel, your lead   arm is far too angled resulting in your hands too deep

AND this is not even at the top . 

There is nothing the matter with being laid off provided your club head is NOT OPEN  at the top. 
 

There is one issue that needs to be addressed -your lack of  torso rotation and disconnection of your arms  in the impact zone -see enclosed video

 

To improve your rotation try 2 things

1.open your stance by pulling back your 

lead foot 1 to 2 inches away from the target line

2.Since pelvic rotation is dependent on  the position of your lead hip socket , try straightening your lead leg earlier .
 

The first will preset your hip  socket away from the target line 

The second will change the position of your hip socket away from the target line , thus encouraging rotation 

 

 

Edited June 16, 2022 by golfarb1

[TheDeanAbides]

I want to see a FO to see what your left knee is doing. It may be that in the original swing it’s collapsing in too much and restricting your hips a little is preventing that and giving you a more solid base. 

[phizzy30]

11 hours ago, Lefty_3Jack said:

The term “restrict hip turn” was plenty enough fodder for most of you to immediately say “bad”! You didn’t look at the video to see my hips were turning in the backswing (they have to), just later and not as much. This the entire reason I posted it. Hell, Monte’s NTC video even mentioned that people turn their hips too early and too much in the backswing! 

I do believe that I mentioned not to restrict hip turn but too much hip rotation is also not good either during the back swing. 

[Precis1on]

Over the years trying to improve, I've been reasonably faithful to a big hip turn in the backswing, less arm travel instead maintaining good depth and width, and make a good wrist hinge.  

[getitdaily]

On 6/15/2022 at 9:15 AM, Lefty_3Jack said:

 

 

 

 

Not sure if it's the hip motion, but what I see is the club working up the trail arm and your hands more above your trail shoulder at the top. 

 

Have you been working on your hand/arm motion too?

[Lefty_3Jack]

18 hours ago, getitdaily said:

Not sure if it's the hip motion, but what I see is the club working up the trail arm and your hands more above your trail shoulder at the top. 

 

Have you been working on your hand/arm motion too?

No I haven’t, only the feel of not rotating my hips at all on backswing. It’s only a feel and you can see my hips still turning going back, just more in sync with the upper body and arms.  My hips would turn early and be done turning by P3 and I think that’s why the rear hip would pop out so early in the downswing.
 

my arm swing is not as deep and it’s much shorter than previously. My only cure for being laid off before was to make a very large arm swing, but I’ve been working on more wrist set to combat being so laid off.

[Buzzkill]

On 6/15/2022 at 7:04 AM, Lefty_3Jack said:

I thought "limiting hip rotation" would get the people going since it seems universal here that it's the worst thing in the world to ever do.  Are my hips rotating in the backswing, yes.  Are they rotating later, slower and overall less than before, absolutely.  In reality, I'm probably just getting my upper body/lower body/arms synced up, but the "feel" is don't move your hips in the backswing at all.  

 

Trying to get videos up now.  Purpose of the post was to get some feedback as well as provide some experience of someone that "limited" hip rotation in the backswing with great results.  

That’s what I started doing a few days ago coincidentally.  My ball striking is solid and there’s no slop in swing from below (hips, legs, feet).  My upper body is moving my lower half properly I assume.