Complaints about slow play...

[Double Mocha Man]

9 minutes ago, Golferpaul said:

They won't speed up on their own.  But the threat of a marshal telling them that they must skip a hole is a powerful motivator.  I've seen it in real life.

 

Coming from a marketing and hospitality industry background I think marshalling encounters, however polite, sour you on a particular course.  There are better ways to teach "ready golf" and etiquette.  

[Warrior42111]

2 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

 

Coming from a marketing and hospitality industry background I think marshalling encounters, however polite, sour you on a particular course.  There are better ways to teach "ready golf" and etiquette.  

I think a combination of things make it a bit smoother. No one thinks they're playing slow, so a person saying it is now a 'he said she said' like scenario. Combine them with those cart GPS computers that have PoP on them now a friendly reminder to check the computer screen reduces that sour feeling a lot.

 

This is just what I've seen at a course I play a lot, verbal heads up plus factual tangible data is hard to argue.

[Double Mocha Man]

I posted this last night in a different thread.  Having to do with slow play:

 

It would be similar to getting a driver's license.

 

First, you're given a manual that you should read before you go on the golf course the first time.

 

Then, an assistant pro or a seasoned volunteer plays three holes with you grading you on things like "ready golf"  and etiquette.

 

If you pass you are supplied with a card that you show in the pro shop when you are paying for your round.

 

It doesn't have to be over the top... just something to get you started in the right direction.

[North Butte]

1 hour ago, Double Mocha Man said:

I posted this last night in a different thread.  Having to do with slow play:

 

It would be similar to getting a driver's license.

 

First, you're given a manual that you should read before you go on the golf course the first time.

 

Then, an assistant pro or a seasoned volunteer plays three holes with you grading you on things like "ready golf"  and etiquette.

 

If you pass you are supplied with a card that you show in the pro shop when you are paying for your round.

 

It doesn't have to be over the top... just something to get you started in the right direction.

No public course would do that in a million years. Nine out of ten people they tried to force to go through the "study and pass a driving test" routine would simply take their business elsewhere.

 

Not to mention in my experience some of the assistant pros who work at golf courses have been badly infected by the virus that causes people to preen and pose and carefully duplicate the "routines" of the guys they see playing on TV. If they teach beginners about pace of play they're going to be teaching them how to take 5-1/2 hours for 71 strokes like they do on TV.

[Double Mocha Man]

5 minutes ago, North Butte said:

No public course would do that in a million years. Nine out of ten people they tried to force to go through the "study and pass a driving test" routine would simply take their business elsewhere.

 

Not to mention in my experience some of the assistant pros who work at golf courses have been badly infected by the virus that causes people to preen and pose and carefully duplicate the "routines" of the guys they see playing on TV. If they teach beginners about pace of play they're going to be teaching them how to take 5-1/2 hours for 71 strokes like they do on TV.

Ahh, but what if every course signed on to do it? I do hear you about assistant pros...

[StudentGolfer4]

3 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

I posted this last night in a different thread.  Having to do with slow play:

 

It would be similar to getting a driver's license.

 

First, you're given a manual that you should read before you go on the golf course the first time.

 

Then, an assistant pro or a seasoned volunteer plays three holes with you grading you on things like "ready golf"  and etiquette.

 

If you pass you are supplied with a card that you show in the pro shop when you are paying for your round.

 

It doesn't have to be over the top... just something to get you started in the right direction.

The issue with golf is getting people to agree on proper etiquette and procedures.
 

If you’re going this route, does the assistant add or subtract points for you walking ahead on the sides of the fairway while others are hitting? How about things like determining tee order on the first hole? Flip a tee? Ask if anyone wants to go first or different system? Do they suggest honor system or prompt you to tee off in front of a birdie if you’re ready? Send you back to the tee for a lost ball? Unfortunately it’s just not that simple. Golf is a game of nuance and has different traditions and accepted standards all over the globe and each course is different. 
 

 

[Double Mocha Man]

37 minutes ago, StudentGolfer4 said:

The issue with golf is getting people to agree on proper etiquette and procedures.
 

If you’re going this route, does the assistant add or subtract points for you walking ahead on the sides of the fairway while others are hitting? How about things like determining tee order on the first hole? Flip a tee? Ask if anyone wants to go first or different system? Do they suggest honor system or prompt you to tee off in front of a birdie if you’re ready? Send you back to the tee for a lost ball? Unfortunately it’s just not that simple. Golf is a game of nuance and has different traditions and accepted standards all over the globe and each course is different. 
 

 

 

Not in disagreement.  Tee honors always go to the birdie/eagle-maker... unless they surrender that privilege.  And please, walk ahead along the side of the fairway.  And on the first tee, do whatever you want, but just get off the tee quickly.

 

It can be simple.

[Golferpaul]

How about using a carrot approach?  Everybody that finishes in xx.xx hours gets a free beer.

[chippa13]

On 10/13/2022 at 7:34 PM, Golferpaul said:

How about using a carrot approach?  Everybody that finishes in xx.xx hours gets a free beer.

The time to finish is often dependent on the people ahead. That would lead to more disgruntled golfers who didn't get their free beer who did nothing to contribute to not making their time.

[North Butte]

There is no incentive that is going to make slow players speed up. They think each and every one of their time wasting habits is an important part of the experience. 
 

And as noted, the only thing that will make quick players faster is not having slow players holding them up. 
 

Slow play is a least common denominator problem. It’s all down to the slowest handful of individuals on the entire course to determine the entire pace. And in my experience those guys are incentive-proof, marshalling-proof and can not be “educated” out if it.
 

Especially nowadays when their slow play habits are reinforced every single time they watch golf on TV. 

[Double Mocha Man]

22 minutes ago, North Butte said:

There is no incentive that is going to make slow players speed up. They think each and every one of their time wasting habits is an important part of the experience. 
 

And as noted, the only thing that will make quick players faster is not having slow players holding them up. 
 

Slow play is a least common denominator problem. It’s all down to the slowest handful of individuals on the entire course to determine the entire pace. And in my experience those guys are incentive-proof, marshalling-proof and can not be “educated” out if it.
 

Especially nowadays when their slow play habits are reinforced every single time they watch golf on TV. 

 

You are onto something there!

[jvincent]

1 hour ago, North Butte said:

There is no incentive that is going to make slow players speed up. They think each and every one of their time wasting habits is an important part of the experience. 
 

And as noted, the only thing that will make quick players faster is not having slow players holding them up. 
 

Slow play is a least common denominator problem. It’s all down to the slowest handful of individuals on the entire course to determine the entire pace. And in my experience those guys are incentive-proof, marshalling-proof and can not be “educated” out if it.
 

Especially nowadays when their slow play habits are reinforced every single time they watch golf on TV. 

 

There was a course around here that has a super strict pace of play policy when they opened.

 

If you were behind pace at the turn they kicked you off and gave you a rain check. It was fabulous. Unfortunately it only lasted maybe two seasons.

[Double Mocha Man]

3 minutes ago, jvincent said:

If you were behind pace at the turn they kicked you off and gave you a rain check. It was fabulous. Unfortunately it only lasted maybe two seasons.

 

They were probably losing business.

 

I think we need to accept the fact that about 80% of all golfers are not very fast.

[jvincent]

Just now, Double Mocha Man said:

 

They were probably losing business.

 

I think we need to accept the fact that about 80% of all golfers are not very fast.

 

They most certainly were. Add to the mix that when they opened the fairways on several holes were lined by waist high weed/fescue and it didn't help. But at least for a time it was a refuge for the fast players.

 

Thankfully pace of play at my club is a non-issue.

[caniac6]

5 hours ago, jvincent said:

 

There was a course around here that has a super strict pace of play policy when they opened.

 

If you were behind pace at the turn they kicked you off and gave you a rain check. It was fabulous. Unfortunately it only lasted maybe two seasons.

What did they do if you were behind pace because you were playing behind guys that were behind?

[jvincent]

Just now, caniac6 said:

What did they do if you were behind pace because you were playing behind guys that were behind?

 

Only the lead group got the boot. The marshals were pretty good about knowing if you were being held up.

[kmay__]

Last thursday playing as 2 we walk to the first tee, 2 guys already there, they offer us to play ahead, I didn't want to cause they were in a cart and we were walking but my pal insisted we go. We both miss fairway left, mine lands on a root and I see it F off even more left and gone, my pals is so left its lost for sure. We walk up to the area, I do a very brief look and drop a ball, pal still searching, searching, searching. He then walks to me and asks if I found mine, I say, nope and I've already dropped one so I can get out of these guys way. (obvious courtesy, they let us through, don't dilly daddle get movin and out of their way) This infuriates my pal to the point where he went silent and behaved like a baby the next 3 holes, at which point I said you go ahead alone, and I turned back and re played hole 3 and 4 now behind the 2 that let us through. And I enjoyed the rest of my holes in peace.

 

This is how some people think, its all about them. Wild. 

 

(and to think I never told HIM to hurry up, I simply stated that I was attempting not to hold up the guys who let us through) 

[Double Mocha Man]

24 minutes ago, kmay__ said:

Last thursday playing as 2 we walk to the first tee, 2 guys already there, they offer us to play ahead, I didn't want to cause they were in a cart and we were walking but my pal insisted we go. We both miss fairway left, mine lands on a root and I see it F off even more left and gone, my pals is so left its lost for sure. We walk up to the area, I do a very brief look and drop a ball, pal still searching, searching, searching. He then walks to me and asks if I found mine, I say, nope and I've already dropped one so I can get out of these guys way. (obvious courtesy, they let us through, don't dilly daddle get movin and out of their way) This infuriates my pal to the point where he went silent and behaved like a baby the next 3 holes, at which point I said you go ahead alone, and I turned back and re played hole 3 and 4 now behind the 2 that let us through. And I enjoyed the rest of my holes in peace.

 

This is how some people think, its all about them. Wild. 

 

(and to think I never told HIM to hurry up, I simply stated that I was attempting not to hold up the guys who let us through) 

 

Did he say anything when you told him you (in the collective) didn't want to hold up the kind guys that let you tee off in front of them?  Or did he say, "Screw them, I have 10 minutes to look for my ball, and I'm too dam* cheap to leave behind a $2 ball."

[golfortennis]

On 10/21/2022 at 3:30 PM, kmay__ said:

Last thursday playing as 2 we walk to the first tee, 2 guys already there, they offer us to play ahead, I didn't want to cause they were in a cart and we were walking but my pal insisted we go. We both miss fairway left, mine lands on a root and I see it F off even more left and gone, my pals is so left its lost for sure. We walk up to the area, I do a very brief look and drop a ball, pal still searching, searching, searching. He then walks to me and asks if I found mine, I say, nope and I've already dropped one so I can get out of these guys way. (obvious courtesy, they let us through, don't dilly daddle get movin and out of their way) This infuriates my pal to the point where he went silent and behaved like a baby the next 3 holes, at which point I said you go ahead alone, and I turned back and re played hole 3 and 4 now behind the 2 that let us through. And I enjoyed the rest of my holes in peace.

 

This is how some people think, its all about them. Wild. 

 

(and to think I never told HIM to hurry up, I simply stated that I was attempting not to hold up the guys who let us through) 

 

Were you paired up with this guy or was this a buddy?  Guessing golf with him won't be happening anytime soon.

[chisag]

On 10/21/2022 at 6:59 AM, jvincent said:

 

There was a course around here that has a super strict pace of play policy when they opened.

 

If you were behind pace at the turn they kicked you off and gave you a rain check. It was fabulous. Unfortunately it only lasted maybe two seasons.

 

 

... In Chicago it used to be pretty common for rangers to ask a group to please catch up to the group in front if they were behind. If they did not, a warning was issued that they would be required to skip to the next hole to catch up. If after moving ahead they fell behind again, they would be told to leave and get a refund at the clubhouse. The last option happened very rarely. After September 2001 when the economy went in the tank and didn't recover by the next spring, most courses just asked politely if a group could pick up the pace just once, then ignored for the rest of the round if they were slow. After the economy tanked in 2008, several courses stopped using rangers all together. I think it created a different kind of clientele. 

[Double Mocha Man]

1 hour ago, chisag said:

In Chicago it used to be pretty common for rangers to ask a group to please catch up to the group in front if they were behind. If they did not, a warning was issued that they would be required to skip to the next hole to catch up. If after moving ahead they fell behind again, they would be told to leave and get a refund at the clubhouse.

 

These are the same people who drive slow and never check their rear view mirror on the road.  Even though there's a line-up of 10-15 cars behind them.

[jmevox]

I played behind a group of 3 today that took an hour and 10 minutes to play 4 holes.  They were on hole 5's tee box when I had enough and walked off the course.  I got in my car, drove to the grocery store 2 miles away and bought 2 items, drove back home past the course and the group was in the fairway on hole 5 still.  

 

 

[Double Mocha Man]

1 hour ago, jmevox said:

I played behind a group of 3 today that took an hour and 10 minutes to play 4 holes.  They were on hole 5's tee box when I had enough and walked off the course.  I got in my car, drove to the grocery store 2 miles away and bought 2 items, drove back home past the course and the group was in the fairway on hole 5 still.  

 

 

 

Was it below 32 degrees and possibly they were frozen?  You shoulda thrown a grocery item at them...

[Wardman]

Even better when the assistant pro drives out, then has the caddie master say something to you.  happens all the time at my course.  4-4:30 is fine for me.  I play fast, but also want to enjoy the company a bit.

[Double Mocha Man]

8 minutes ago, Wardman said:

Even better when the assistant pro drives out, then has the caddie master say something to you.  happens all the time at my course.  4-4:30 is fine for me.  I play fast, but also want to enjoy the company a bit.

 

I played golf once at Pebble Beach with a friend who also happens to be the slowest player on this planet.  The assistant pro came out on the 11th hole.  That didn't work.  Then the head pro came out on the 14th hole.  That didn't work  Mind you, those holes are very far removed from the pro shop.  We had about 3 open holes ahead of us.  Wasn't me.  I'm fast, but the speed of your group is determined by the slowest player.  And yes, we were trying to speed him up.

[Wardman]

1 minute ago, Double Mocha Man said:

 

I played golf once at Pebble Beach with a friend who also happens to be the slowest player on this planet.  The assistant pro came out on the 11th hole.  That didn't work.  Then the head pro came out on the 14th hole.  That didn't work  Mind you, those holes are very far removed from the pro shop.  We had about 3 open holes ahead of us.  Wasn't me.  I'm fast, but the speed of your group is determined by the slowest player.  And yes, we were trying to speed him up.

$500 walk in the park at Pebble 🙂  Maybe more now, right?  I think there is slow, and there is slow - and there is obnoxious players behind you that never think they are slow.  For them, you need to play slower.  Yes, I have some stories....  All good, hit them straight!

 

Didn't the caddie speed you up at Pebble, I thought you had to have one.  Maybe not by searching.  But they were great IMO there.

[Double Mocha Man]

36 minutes ago, Wardman said:

Didn't the caddie speed you up at Pebble, I thought you had to have one.  Maybe not by searching.  But they were great IMO there.

 

3 of us.  We all had individual caddies.  And the caddies tried... but they also didn't want to mess with their payday.

 

And funny enough, the slow guy complained to the pro saying, "I paid for the round, we can set our own pace."   Hehehe... in fact, I had made a killing in the stock market that year and paid for the rounds, the caddies, the lodging, the meals, the spa treatments, the flights to Monterrey.

 

Oh well.

[Wardman]

1 minute ago, Double Mocha Man said:

 

3 of us.  We all had individual caddies.  And the caddies tried... but they also didn't want to mess with their payday.

 

And funny enough, the slow guy complained to the pro saying, "I paid for the round, we can set our own pace."   Hehehe... in fact, I had made a killing in the stock market that year and paid for the rounds, the caddies, the lodging, the meals, the spa treatments, the flights to Monterrey.

 

Oh well.

Fancy - went into Monterey!  🙂  Hate that drive down!!!

[DLeightonReid]

I recently played in a benefit tournament which had a full field of 36 four man teams, so an A and B team on each hole.  With this many teams, I knew it would be a slow round of about 5 hours.  About 4 holes in, the A team that we followed off the first tee decided to join up with the team ahead of them.  Now we are following a group of eight.  With a full field, the flow of play can only go as fast as the slowest team.  At the turn, we asked the group if we could play through and they declined our request.  The anticipated 5 hour round took 6 hours and 15 minutes to complete.  In my opinion, it was very inconsiderate to our group and the groups behind us that had to wait on every shot.  

Edited November 3, 2022 by DLeightonReid

[Double Mocha Man]

2 hours ago, DLeightonReid said:

I recently played in a benefit tournament which had a full field of 36 four man teams, so an A and B team on each hole.  With this many teams, I knew it would be a slow round of about 5 hours.  About 4 holes in, the A team that we followed off the first tee decided to join up with the team ahead of them.  Now we are following a group of eight.  With a full field, the flow of play can only go as fast as the slowest team.  At the turn, we asked the group if we could play through and they declined our request.  The anticipated 5 hour round took 6 hours and 15 minutes to complete.  In my opinion, it was very inconsiderate to our group and the groups behind us that had to wait on every shot.  

 

I once played in a golf tournament in Lebanon, Missouri.