Hands at address, low or high?

[ericz]

Interested in getting some opinions on my hands at address. In the image below, the left is my normal setup position, the right is lower hands that I've been experimenting with. I didn't consciously change anything else other than lowering my hands and letting my body react.

 

The lower hands position on the right allows me to get a better top of the backswing position and avoid a long backswing which has been a bit of an issue for me. I'm not quite as good through the ball with lower hands, but it's close and could probably get there with a little work.

 

I want to verify that the position on the right is fundamentally sound before I start to commit to it. It looks awkward to me, but I may be overly critical.

 

Club is PW.

 

Which position is best, left, right or neither?

 

Thanks!

 

 

[Kuuuch]

I like left better, always been taught butt of club should point around belt buckle. Totally guessing here but setup on the right could make it easier to vertically hinge wrists which is why your backswing is better with that setup.

[ericz]

15 minutes ago, Kuuuch said:

I like left better, always been taught butt of club should point around belt buckle. Totally guessing here but setup on the right could make it easier to vertically hinge wrists which is why your backswing is better with that setup.

That’s what I’ve learned too, club at belt buckle.

 

Interesting thought about wrist hinge. Makes sense. 

[dap]

Left is more orthodox if you go by most pros and top ams. Very few have the arms hanging inwards at address even with a short iron but if it works better then go for it. Mac O’Grady was proponent of low hands and he was a great ball striker. It’s a viable option and not necessarily unsound fundamentally but don’t overdo it.

[CSagan]

Yeah was gonna say Mac was a low hands guy but he actually is a higher hands guy now haha. Whichever way makes you hit the ball better is the way to go. Experiment with everything.

[TLUBulldogGolf]

I much prefer the look of the left, too bent over can cause issues with limiting hip turn. 

Edited November 22, 2022 by TLUBulldogGolf

[North Butte]

For me, that setup on the right FEELS so correct and so powerful I'll find myself drifting into the low hands position when I'm struggling with my iron swing. 

 

But for me, low hands at address is a death move. No idea where the ball is going with that setup, saying two way miss isn't doing it justice. 

 

I've talked about the low hands thing with a friend of mine and we've speculated it might be possible to build a really great swing that works from that setup. But we'd have no idea how that might work so we just stay more conventional. 

[getitdaily]

It all depends. 

 

Setup should be a matchup position...meaning it should put you in a position to have a better backswing. 

 

If you swing the club back too flat/inside then the lower hands position can help steepen the shoulder turn (because you're more bent over). 

 

The lower hands position can also help with wrist set. If you set late (and that's an issue) then lower hands puts you in a bit of a pre-set position. 

 

Neither setup position is better or worse than the other. They are better or worse based on how they matchup with your backswing. 

 

As for the more bent over position...the hands are a bit too close to your body. That's 1 adjustment I'd make.  The bent over position also has to be examined from a downswing position up to impact. It can be harder to stay down in an already bent over position.

 

So toy with both. Look for what matches up  enter with your backswing. 

 

Backswing inside/flat- bent over can help

 

Backswing upright - bent over may exacerbate and cause you to be more upright/steep.

Edited November 22, 2022 by getitdaily

[ericz]

8 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

It all depends. 

 

Setup should be a matchup position...meaning it should put you in a position to have a better backswing. 

 

If you swing the club back too flat/inside then the lower hands position can help steepen the shoulder turn (because you're more bent over). 

 

The lower hands position can also help with wrist set. If you set late (and that's an issue) then lower hands puts you in a bit of a pre-set position. 

 

Neither setup position is better or worse than the other. They are better or worse based on how they matchup with your backswing. 

 

As for the more bent over position...the hands are a bit too close to your body. That's 1 adjustment I'd make.  The bent over position also has to be examined from a downswing position up to impact. It can be harder to stay down in an already bent over position.

 

So toy with both. Look for what matches up  enter with your backswing. 

 

Backswing inside/flat- bent over can help

 

Backswing upright - bent over may exacerbate and cause you to be more upright/steep.

 

Good point about matchups. It may be a better matchup for me to have the hands lower, despite my feelings towards it when I look at a still image. I agree my hands are too close when lower. Seems logical to back away from the ball and inch or two if hands are lower. I just pushed them down from the higher position without changing distance from the ball.

[Andygolderson]

I think it depends on what you want to fix. 

 

If you ask which one is better, i prefer the left. This is also how i (think i'm playing). I recently started to focus on this because i want to have a more consistent strike and avoid hitting the toe.

 

I also prefer a more straight back straight through feel, which i feel like i get better from being more upright. Being low, i feel like i'm adding wrist action on the takeaway, either starting outside, coming in, or taking the club back on the inside with an open face.

 

Maybe consider what you like to fix first and how to achieve it before changing your setup and introducing or finding other trade-offs.

[Zitlow]

Let the weight of the club set the angle of the wrists at address. The name of the game is consistency and you won't have consistency if your hands aren't set properly at address. 

[KMeloney]

What about going with the lower-hands (right) set up, but with your arms hanging straight down? With a PW, your angle toward the ball looks more appropriate on the right, but I think having your hands closer to your body/your arms angled back in toward you is throwing people off.

 

When you think about it, your hands will be at their lowest (given the same body position) when your arms are hanging straight down. You've lowered your hands and lowered your chest toward the ball, but you've not moved away from the ball any. So, the only way you can lower your hands AND fit the flub in the same space between you and the ball is to move your hands in toward you -- but you don't NEED to do that. You just need to stand a little farther from the ball, and then you can let your arms hang with your hands lower without bringing them in toward you.

 

Keegan Bradley has some of the lowest hands out there -- but his arms are straight down, even with driver. Now, do his hands look close to his body? Yes -- but they're so low that they are closer to his knees than his pelvis. Also, he bends his knees a ton and sticks his rear out to get low, so his body position is pretty unorthodox.

 

I'd get away from the ball some with the lower hands such that your arms can hang, and THEN see how you hit the ball from there.

[scooterhd2]

Left seems a little upright for with me a wedge, but right side looks overdone. How tall are you? And are you playing stock length? Whats your normal miss with normal (left) setup?

 

[ericz]

42 minutes ago, KMeloney said:

What about going with the lower-hands (right) set up, but with your arms hanging straight down? With a PW, your angle toward the ball looks more appropriate on the right, but I think having your hands closer to your body/your arms angled back in toward you is throwing people off.

 

Thanks, yes this is pretty much where I've landed as well. The result is sort of a middle ground between the two.

[ericz]

4 minutes ago, scooterhd2 said:

Left seems a little upright for with me a wedge, but right side looks overdone. How tall are you? And are you playing stock length? Whats your normal miss with normal (left) setup?

 

 

I'm 5'7" on a good day. My legs are short, but torso and arms are more "normal." Stock length clubs, though I have experimented with 1/4" shorter and 2 degrees flat. I'm not sure it ever made a difference so I went back to standard.

 

My main miss with the left set up is a pull draw. I also catch the toe often.

 

My arms tend to pull into towards my body a bit on the downswing so my thought was that maybe starting with my hands a little lower and closer would keep my arms in the same relationship to my torso. Lower hands also tightens up my backswing a bit.

[Pepperturbo]

IMO Low or high hands depends on a person's setup and length of arms. 

 

Bend forward should be as though you're partially setting on a stool, weight near ball of feet and directly under knees, arms should fall from your shoulder.  Manipulating that is problematic. 

 

I am 5'10, 214lbs and 34" arm length.  My arms are closer to left image.  Right image looks too bent over and hands too close causing swing obstruction. 

[Barfolomew]

Being "correct" has nothing to do with which one looks better in a photo 🦃

 

They can both work.... I like hands in close to body as I have more control and power.... further from body is less consistent and wobblyish 

 

 

[moehogan]

On 11/21/2022 at 9:41 PM, ericz said:

Interested in getting some opinions on my hands at address. In the image below, the left is my normal setup position, the right is lower hands that I've been experimenting with. I didn't consciously change anything else other than lowering my hands and letting my body react.

 

The lower hands position on the right allows me to get a better top of the backswing position and avoid a long backswing which has been a bit of an issue for me. I'm not quite as good through the ball with lower hands, but it's close and could probably get there with a little work.

 

I want to verify that the position on the right is fundamentally sound before I start to commit to it. It looks awkward to me, but I may be overly critical.

 

Club is PW.

 

Which position is best, left, right or neither?

 

Thanks!

 

 

My preferred setup at P1 would be the one on the left and then dynamically move into the amount of flexion on the right by P6. I would  also experiment with setting up and inch or two closer to the ball.

Edited November 23, 2022 by moehogan

[ericz]

7 hours ago, Barfolomew said:

Being "correct" has nothing to do with which one looks better in a photo

 

Agreed. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't committing a cardinal sin on the right with lower hands.

[ericz]

6 hours ago, moehogan said:

My preferred setup at P1 would be the one on the left and then dynamically move into the amount of flexion on the right by P6. I would  also experiment with setting up and inch or two closer to the ball.

 

Had a chance to hit the range twice and play 9 more or less doing exactly this. Moved a bit closer, hands slightly lower somewhere in between the two. Very encouraging so far.

[F1Aussie]

On 11/24/2022 at 2:41 AM, ericz said:

 

I'm 5'7" on a good day. My legs are short, but torso and arms are more "normal." Stock length clubs, though I have experimented with 1/4" shorter and 2 degrees flat. I'm not sure it ever made a difference so I went back to standard.

 

My main miss with the left set up is a pull draw. I also catch the toe often.

 

My arms tend to pull into towards my body a bit on the downswing so my thought was that maybe starting with my hands a little lower and closer would keep my arms in the same relationship to my torso. Lower hands also tightens up my backswing a bit.

I have recently started playing again and after a couple of good days initially down the range I have been getting frustrated with my ball striking with the long clubs. I have been hitting a lot of low books off the toe with not lot of carry. I tend to stand too upright at address with the driver and noticed today that the end of the club aims around the belly button area at address. 

 

I started experimenting with lowering my hands at address to around the waist or snag area and instantly I was hitting the ball a lot more consistently and towards the middle of the clubface. I did the same with my 2 hybrid and same result, was striping it averaging over 230 metres with it. 

 

I think the lower hands gave me much better angles at address rather than being too upright. It will be interesting to see if it is a permanent fix for me or not. 

[Golf Scientist]

On 11/21/2022 at 6:41 PM, ericz said:

 

 

Club is PW.

 

Which position is best, left, right or neither?

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

I would say neither. Especially since neither is giving you a complete package of a better overall swing. Left one the upper body is too upright, the arms look like they may be on top of the chest as opposed to the sides, and the shaft points too much toward the belly. The one on the right the rear end juts out well behind the mat, and the upper body is bent over too much counterbalancing the stuck out rear end, and the grip points below the belt line. Below is a PW of Rory Mcilory. Pause it at address downline and compare body and club positions. 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nStIoEKb_gA?t=11

Edited April 2, 2023 by Golf Scientist

[acegolfer]

On 11/23/2022 at 10:41 AM, ericz said:

 

I'm 5'7" on a good day. My legs are short, but torso and arms are more "normal." Stock length clubs, though I have experimented with 1/4" shorter and 2 degrees flat. I'm not sure it ever made a difference so I went back to standard.

 

My main miss with the left set up is a pull draw. I also catch the toe often.

 

My arms tend to pull into towards my body a bit on the downswing so my thought was that maybe starting with my hands a little lower and closer would keep my arms in the same relationship to my torso. Lower hands also tightens up my backswing a bit.

I'm also 5'7" with the same mishits (pull hook + toe strike) as you. Were you able to fix the errors with the right picture setup (more forward bend)? My issue with this setup is toe is too up at address with my physique (even with 2 deg flat lie irons). During downswing, the heel may hit the ground 1st and close the club face, causing more pull hook. 

[ericz]

2 hours ago, acegolfer said:

I'm also 5'7" with the same mishits (pull hook + toe strike) as you. Were you able to fix the errors with the right picture setup (more forward bend)? My issue with this setup is toe is too up at address with my physique (even with 2 deg flat lie irons). During downswing, the heel may hit the ground 1st and close the club face, causing more pull hook. 

 

I wouldn't say it fixed it on its own, but is part of a bigger puzzle that I'm trying to piece together. My address position now is somewhere between the two example images in the OP. I feel you with the toe being high at address. I've had lie angles flattened before and while it looked better to me, didn't really have any noticable impact on my ball striking. 

 

Biggest thing that has helped me greatly reduce pull hooks is weakening my grip a bit, from a moderately strong left hand to a more neutral left hand.

[KNOWMOREDOUBLES]

Something I have noticed.  When I choke down an inch on my irons this raises the shaft to a position that is pointed more to my belt buckle. This would make the club more upright also (I think??). I definitely hit the ball more solid with much better directional control when I do this.  Not sure if I am on to something or not. 

[naval2006]

I think hands high or low is something that happens naturally.  I've seen very good players on both sides.  There's something to do with feeling comfortable and able to deliver speed through.  I go with low hands.  I'm 5'7'' too and I like to hang my arms at address.  I know two guys my height, they both very good players, who play with high hands.  

 

Downsize of low hands is sometimes you develop a lazy handsy swing that you have to take care of.  

[McDuffer925]

Also 5'7". Got fitted for clubs at standard length and lie. I had a bad problem with levering the club and chunking shots frequently when I first started. I was trying to follow sound advice with the butt of the club pointing at my belt buckle and I too had similar problems... my backswing felt sort of stiff and forced and misses were mostly toe hooks. I started experimenting with lower hands, a little wider stance and it made by swing feel WAY more athletic and like an actual SWING instead of me trying to maneuver a club into certain positions. But like you I think its finding a happy medium where your swing feels most natural and athletic and allows you to present the club to the ball with enough power and precision. Iv never been a long hitter but lower hands to me feels more.... dynamic? i guess is the word.... anyway. my 2 cents ha.

[Nels55]

I noticed I was setting up with my hands higher at address then at impact a few years ago when I was having a shanking spell.  Lowering my hands at setup to approximately where they are at impact solved the problem.  So, I think that it is a good idea to look at where the hands are impact and then setup close to that position.  That said I know that a lot of good players setup with hands lower at address which seems to work well for them so like most things in golf it is important to find what works for you.

[golfarb1]

Rory with an iron and a driver

Notice the difference between his setup for an iron and a driver 

The main differences are the angle of spine relative to the ground and the distance between his hands and his thighs. This is due to the difference in clubs .

Rory spine setup is an example of a “ neutral spine”with both clubs . Mac Ogrady is an example of “c” posture . 
 

1.distance between his hands and his thighs 

2. the front of his knees are over the middle of his shoelaces 

3. the angle of trail thigh 

4. the angle of his spine relative to the ground 

5. the amount his butt is behind heels 

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by golfarb1