Please mark your ball

[TomScht]

Are there any limits on what a player can tell another to do, in etiquette or in the rules?  Eg., can he order you to mark your ball if it is not on his line or tell you to move because you are in his peripheral vision?

[davep043]

7 minutes ago, TomScht said:

Are there any limits on what a player can tell another to do, in etiquette or in the rules?  Eg., can he order you to mark your ball if it is not on his line or tell you to move because you are in his peripheral vision?

For the first part, refer to Rule 15.3c.  You can require a player to mark his ball if it could reasonably help or interfere with your play.  Interference could include distraction, as defined in 15.3b.  As for standing in a location that distracts you, there's no specific rule, that would fall under 1.2a, where players are expected to show consideration to others, including not distracting other players.  

[TomScht]

So "yes" a player can order you to mark your ball if it is anywhere on the green. 

And "no" he cannot make you move because you are in his peripheral vision?   Even if you are standing behind him to see the line?

[Mr. Bean]

9 minutes ago, TomScht said:

So "yes" a player can order you to mark your ball if it is anywhere on the green. 

And "no" he cannot make you move because you are in his peripheral vision?   Even if you are standing behind him to see the line?

 

That is correct, no Rule to make the other player to move. Then again, I have never played with anyone who would not have respected the wishes of another player as long as they are reasonable.

 

Edited December 9, 2022 by Mr. Bean

[Halebopp]

24 minutes ago, TomScht said:

So "yes" a player can order you to mark your ball if it is anywhere on the green. 

And "no" he cannot make you move because you are in his peripheral vision?   Even if you are standing behind him to see the line?

 

Rule 1.2 carries the penalty of disqualification for serious misconduct and deliberately distracting other players would qualify as such. So not moving away when asked to can put the whole round in jeopardy.

 

Of course there can be situations in which a player might have practically unfulfillable requirements for others to not be "distracting".

[Mr. Bean]

1 hour ago, Halebopp said:

 

Rule 1.2 carries the penalty of disqualification for serious misconduct and deliberately distracting other players would qualify as such. So not moving away when asked to can put the whole round in jeopardy.

 

 

I doubt that very much. A DQ for a first offence of not moving away would simply be too harsh. If there is a Code of Conduct laid down by the Committee a single stroke penalty or a General Penalty might come into picture but even then the penalties would come into picture after repeated misconduct. A single poor behaviour against common etiquette hardly qualifies as a serious misconduct.

[Halebopp]

16 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

I doubt that very much. A DQ for a first offence of not moving away would simply be too harsh. If there is a Code of Conduct laid down by the Committee a single stroke penalty or a General Penalty might come into picture but even then the penalties would come into picture after repeated misconduct. A single poor behaviour against common etiquette hardly qualifies as a serious misconduct.

 

Ah, the word "would" was supposed to be "could". 🙂

[antip]

9 hours ago, TomScht said:

So "yes" a player can order you to mark your ball if it is anywhere on the green. 

And "no" he cannot make you move because you are in his peripheral vision?   Even if you are standing behind him to see the line?

Best if you make your questions more specific. Read Rule 15.3 for when you can require someone to move their ball and when you can be required to move yours (or putt first in stroke play). 

The rules don't specifically deal with the 'peripheral vision' type issues. If you stand behind me to see the line I am going to ask you to move. If you do not move, I will ask you nicely again. If you fail to move I will be reporting your behaviour to the Committee and alerting everyone I know about your inconsiderate actions. A Committee can act on such behaviour under Rule 1.2, but would likely only issue warnings on a first offence but will be looking out for any repeats.

Edited December 10, 2022 by antip
typo

[rogolf]

1 hour ago, antip said:

Best if you make your questions more specific. Read Rule 15.3 for when you can require someone to move their ball and when you can be required to move yours (or putt first in stroke play). 

The rules don't specifically deal with the 'peripheral vision' type issues. If you stand behind me to see the line I am going to ask you to move. If you do not move, I will ask you nicely again. If you fail to move I will be reporting your behaviour to the Committee and alerting everyone I know about your inconsiderate actions. A Committee can act on such behaviour under Rule 1.2, but would likely only issue warnings on a first offence but will be looking out for any repeats.

Precisely!!!!!

[TomScht]

On 12/9/2022 at 8:43 AM, TomScht said:

So "yes" a player can order you to mark your ball if it is anywhere on the green. 

And "no" he cannot make you move because you are in his peripheral vision, even if you are standing behind him to see the line.

I read the rule and concluded the above regarding the specific examples given. No disagreements so far...

[davep043]

13 minutes ago, TomScht said:

I read the rule and concluded the above regarding the specific examples given. No disagreements so far...

You're right, generally.  As a few others have said, repeatedly and intentionally doing something that distracts your Opponent or another Player could at some point lead to issues under Rule 1.2a.  Not to mention doing it too often in casual play may lead to you being dis-invited to play in that group.

[rogolf]

8 minutes ago, davep043 said:

You're right, generally.  As a few others have said, repeatedly and intentionally doing something that distracts your Opponent or another Player could at some point lead to issues under Rule 1.2a.  Not to mention doing it too often in casual play may lead to you being dis-invited to play in that group.

If someone won't move away when I ask them, I refuse to play until they do.  That usually brings peer pressure to the fore, or, as you say, brings an official into the discussion.

[TomScht]

5 minutes ago, rogolf said:

If someone won't move away when I ask them, I refuse to play until they do.  That usually brings peer pressure to the fore, or, as you say, brings an official into the discussion.

Good idea!

[antip]

7 hours ago, TomScht said:

I read the rule and concluded the above regarding the specific examples given. No disagreements so far...

"So "yes" a player can order you to mark your ball if it is anywhere on the green."

 

This is not correct. If you "order" me to mark my ball when you have no valid reason to do so I'm just going to laugh at you.

[klebs01]

8 hours ago, rogolf said:

If someone won't move away when I ask them, I refuse to play until they do.  That usually brings peer pressure to the fore, or, as you say, brings an official into the discussion.

My experience is that the person asking people to move is usually the unreasonable one and is more likely to be disinvited. 

[naval2006]

The appropriate thing to do when you get to a green, especially in competition, is to always mark your ball no matter where it's resting.  You just pick it up to clean it first.  

 

Same with standing on the line, shadow on line or similar if you're not aware.  Your competitor asks you to move and you act accordingly.  It's normal in golf.  I've never heard  of or seen a golfer not moving when they are asked to.  

 

 

 

 

[klebs01]

1 hour ago, naval2006 said:

The appropriate thing to do when you get to a green, especially in competition, is to always mark your ball no matter where it's resting.  You just pick it up to clean it first.  

 

Same with standing on the line, shadow on line or similar if you're not aware.  Your competitor asks you to move and you act accordingly.  It's normal in golf.  I've never heard  of or seen a golfer not moving when they are asked to.  

 

 

 

 

I had a guy complain that I was wearing a red shirt once and said I needed to stand behind him whenever he was hitting. Even if he was on the left side of the fairway and I was on the right. No dude. I’m not walking an extra 50-100 yards. 

[rogolf]

14 minutes ago, klebs01 said:

I had a guy complain that I was wearing a red shirt once and said I needed to stand behind him whenever he was hitting. Even if he was on the left side of the fairway and I was on the right. No dude. I’m not walking an extra 50-100 yards. 

Single event, not to be generalized.  As someone said much earlier, "every village has an idiot".

[MisterT]

On 12/9/2022 at 9:43 AM, TomScht said:

Even if you are standing behind him to see the line?

I didn't think another player could stand behind someone as they putted to "see the line." Has that changed?

[klebs01]

20 minutes ago, MisterT said:

I didn't think another player could stand behind someone as they putted to "see the line." Has that changed?

It’s definitely not a rule now or in the last iteration. Not sure it was ever a rule. Seems to be an urban legend. 

[Mr. Bean]

29 minutes ago, MisterT said:

I didn't think another player could stand behind someone as they putted to "see the line." Has that changed?

 

There is no Rule forbidding that and has not been at least for the past 60 years. However, the Etiquette used to suggest that activity should be avoided.

 

It is fair to note that a caddie or a partner may not stand there as that is against Rule 10, if I recall correctly.

 

[MisterT]

2 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

There is no Rule forbidding that and has not been at least for the past 60 years. However, the Etiquette used to suggest that activity should be avoided.

 

It is fair to note that a caddie or a partner may not stand there as that is against Rule 10, if I recall correctly.

 

Thanks. I knew the part about a caddie or partner. The TV announcers in the US seem to often say, "He stepped in quickly to see the line" which had me thinking that it was a rule.

[rogolf]

2 minutes ago, MisterT said:

Thanks. I knew the part about a caddie or partner. The TV announcers in the US seem to often say, "He stepped in quickly to see the line" which had me thinking that it was a rule.

The point there is that the other player was not standing behind the player when the player made the stroke, but he quickly moved in behind the player after the ball was struck.

There is no Rule prohibiting that stepping in after the stroke to see the ball in motion, but it is common etiquette and courtesy that a player not stand behind another when a stroke is being made.

[bladehunter]

On 12/12/2022 at 6:36 PM, antip said:

"So "yes" a player can order you to mark your ball if it is anywhere on the green."

 

This is not correct. If you "order" me to mark my ball when you have no valid reason to do so I'm just going to laugh at you.

Try this.  Mark your ball with a second , differently marked ball.  😂

[bladehunter]

On 12/13/2022 at 3:02 PM, rogolf said:

The point there is that the other player was not standing behind the player when the player made the stroke, but he quickly moved in behind the player after the ball was struck.

There is no Rule prohibiting that stepping in after the stroke to see the ball in motion, but it is common etiquette and courtesy that a player not stand behind another when a stroke is being made.

Once had a guy do similarly.   For some reason it got to me.  I usually am not sensitive to noise or movement at all.  But.  It was a group where I had a lot of instances of being the last to hit an approach.  I was walking , two guys riding.   Another walking.  The riding pair would pull up within 10-12 feet of my ball.  No problem there.  But. The driver got into the habit of hitting the gas either on my downswing or just at impact.  I suspect it was just at or after impact.  He did this every single hole.
 

 Until. I decided to make an example.  I got over the ball and setup , pulled the trigger and then as I came down stepped out and made a practice swing.  He hit the gas and lurched forward.  Slammed on the brakes and stopped. No words said , I set back up to the ball. And did the same again.  He again takes off about where impact is.  Slams on brakes and slides to a stop.  I had assumed this would be enough for a smart person to figure out. He decides to berate me .  So I walked over to his cart and asked him why he was in such a hurry , and why he needed to park beside me and hit the gas during  the swing , every single shot.   He denied doing so 😂.  I look at his cart mate and said “ please have a talk with him , you just saw what I saw right “? .  They sped off. That was on the 17th hole.  No words said the rest of the round. I’ve played with him many times since. Never parks  beside me.  
 

I suspect the running in could get to be the same if it happens repeatedly.  It’s not the running in.  It’s the timing or anticipation of knowing it’s going to happen.  

Edited December 17, 2022 by bladehunter

[ND2005]

On 12/12/2022 at 6:47 PM, klebs01 said:

My experience is that the person asking people to move is usually the unreasonable one and is more likely to be disinvited. 

 

Someone standing directly behind your line I think it is reasonable to ask them to move. 

 

The people who complain about anyone in their peripheral vision however...those are usually the unreasonable ones and generally not fun to play with.

[munchies2x]

Had an ex-military, mid-hdcp guy in our club that used telling people not to stand anywhere where he can still see us, so we have to literally stand on his back when he hit his tee shot or putt. In some holes, where the cart path is actually on the right hand side (he is a right handed golfer), we had to walk all the way to the left side (occasionally standing next to the trees or bushes) while he hit his tee shot.

 

Heard he had difficulty in finding group to play and then left after a while.

[QEight]

I thought these type of players were just a tale, until I played 9 holes with one. This was on business trip to Germany where I managed to squeeze one round in. I was standing in the back of the teebox, like I have been for the past 15 years, when he gave me the eye and told me to move behind his back. First of a kind for me.

Edited December 25, 2022 by QEight

[Colin L]

On 12/25/2022 at 8:43 AM, munchies2x said:

.......   Heard he had difficulty in finding group to play and then left after a while.

😀  

[payerasjl]

Had a clown refuse to mark his ball on his own and insist that I demand it from him on every single green. Was lovely to beat him during our match. 
 

gamesmanship is fun and all, but that’s just stupid.