What is up with Justin Thomas aka JT?

[Cincy_Ken]

6 minutes ago, elwhippy said:

He seems to be flat out at all times. That will produce peaks and troughs. TBH his putting has been average for a while and there is no place on tour for mediocre putting. 

 

Scottie Scheffler disagrees

[Chunkitgood]

The first time I heard of a golfer chasing speed for distance and going downhill was David Duval.

 

Then there was McIroy.

 

“Tiger proofing” courses was a mistake.  Should have put some rule in about ball spin instead.

 

 

[black bnr32]

On 6/20/2023 at 1:05 PM, elwhippy said:

He seems to be flat out at all times. That will produce peaks and troughs. TBH his putting has been average for a while and there is no place on tour for mediocre putting. 

Mediocre putting is number 1 in the world 

[SunDevil009]

64 - 62 the last 2 days!

 

[hwwong]

On 6/19/2023 at 4:21 AM, MattyO1984 said:

JT is my guy and it’s been hard to watch him playing the way that he has done over much of the last year or so.

 

The wins he he had in 2021 and 2022 were great, great wins - a PGA and a Players Championship - 99% of the guys out there would take that as a career and say thank you very much but events of a huge statute aside, two wins in almost three years is not the rate of knots that he has shown himself to be capable off. 

 

The putter of course has been an issue for some time and the sea of negative numbers on his putting stats means that to compete he needs every other part of his game to be at a higher level and whilst around the green he seems to be about as good as ever, everything else has fallen off. His driving seems (by comparison to others) to have become shorter and more crooked. It’s interesting to see his ball speed numbers off the tee. Whilst those you would consider his peers are all regularly getting it into the 180’s, he seems to really have to go some to get into that realm and his swing speed is down at 77th fastest.  His iron play which over the years had always been Top 10 at worst is now suddenly just in the Top 50. With those drop offs added to his putting, it is not surprising that he is not clocking up the regular top 10’s never mind wins. 

 

Two things that jump to my mind to explain it are one which I have heard and one that I have thought. The one I have heard mentioned but never in any great detail is that there is some kind of injury. JT does not appear to have mentioned it anywhere but it has been mentioned a handful of times on a popular podcast. The other issue that I have pondered, and having nothing to actually back it up, is that in becoming the guy that has more the shots than almost anyone does he stand over the ball with almost too many options. Seemed like the years he won multiple times on Tour he did it by hitting it hard and hitting it high with his driver and irons. He now has many more shots and is more complete but the one dimensional golfer won more. As I say that it just a thought I have had and I have no other basis of thinking it other than likely being a huge fan and watching more of JT than most. 

 

 

Agree with the Tiger bit - seems like he's thinking A LOT out there.  And I'll add another opinion, I don't think Bones is good for him.  Between trying to get to Tiger's level of intricacy and Bones' over analyzation, I think JT is deep in his own head. 

[PearSorbet17]

Justin Thomas aka JT +4 today… time for a new caddy?

[jimecherry]

5 hours ago, hwwong said:

 

 

Agree with the Tiger bit - seems like he's thinking A LOT out there.  And I'll add another opinion, I don't think Bones is good for him.  Between trying to get to Tiger's level of intricacy and Bones' over analyzation, I think JT is deep in his own head. 

i'm sorry but i cant seem to stop replacing head with a** in that sentence.

[GoTime]

His swing is made for an 18 year old body. I'm sure he'll come out of this slump and play good golf again but not sure how he maintains that swing off the tee as he gets older.

[scores]

Bigger stronger and younger guys hitting farther sinking putts -- getting in his head

[Ronnie Mundt]

I’ll never understand why the golf world, the golf media, has such a hard on for JT. It’s like if he’s playing bad, like he is right now, everyone is looking for answers (whhhhhyyyyyy?) and yet he’s on featured group after featured group after featured group. I’d rather watch Jordan Spieth 6 days a week and twice on Sundays. JT is buddy buddy with Tiger, blah blah blah. Who cares. He’s a trainwreck right now.

[jimecherry]

4 minutes ago, Ronnie Mundt said:

I’ll never understand why the golf world, the golf media, has such a hard on for JT. It’s like if he’s playing bad, like he is right now, everyone is looking for answers (whhhhhyyyyyy?) and yet he’s on featured group after featured group after featured group. I’d rather watch Jordan Spieth 6 days a week and twice on Sundays. JT is buddy buddy with Tiger, blah blah blah. Who cares. He’s a trainwreck right now.

I would rather not watch at all ;}

[WhostherealSlimShady]

On 6/24/2023 at 4:45 AM, Chunkitgood said:

The first time I heard of a golfer chasing speed for distance and going downhill was David Duval.

 

Then there was McIroy.

 

“Tiger proofing” courses was a mistake.  Should have put some rule in about ball spin instead.

 

I was always a big Duval fan and can tell you he never was chasing distance.  He changed his body style and then had injuries, vertigo and swing issues .... was tough to watch.

 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

On 6/29/2023 at 7:56 PM, PearSorbet17 said:

Justin Thomas aka JT +4 today… time for a new caddy?

Given your Rickie Fowler proclamation you probably ought to refrain from offering advice to a PGA Pro, let alone a garbageman because he knows garbage when he sees it! 🤣🤣🤣

 

 

 

Edited July 2, 2023 by BlackDiamondPar5

[black bnr32]

11th in Ryder Cup standings.  I think Morikawa and Fowler will pass him tomorrow.

[grm24]

49 minutes ago, black bnr32 said:

11th in Ryder Cup standings.  I think Morikawa and Fowler will pass him tomorrow.

Current RC standings.

 

https://www.espn.com/golf/standings

 

Morikawa 9th, Fowler 12th, Thomas 13th.

[SkiSchoolPro]

On 6/18/2023 at 1:48 PM, golf_junkie_85 said:

 

why would you call him an overachiever? honestly I'm curious why you think that way as I don't see it...I think he's just entering his prime

JT has 16 OWGR wins, but only 6 2nds and 87 top 10s. This makes him clutch/lucky, but not necessarily any more skilled than say Fowler with 10 wins, 17 2nds and 99 top 10s (but in more starts, so not a perfect comparision). 

 

JT had a good Am career, but only made US Am semis once and finished t7 & t16 at the NCAA Championships. Lots of very good golf, but not a lock to win 15 PGA Tour titles before 30.

 

tgws may have his own reasons, but I always find it interesting how often announcers and forum posters say someone has underachieved or could have won more, but we almost never say a golfer overachieved or should have won less.

Edited July 3, 2023 by SkiSchoolPro

[Neo1]

19 minutes ago, SkiSchoolPro said:

JT has 16 OWGR wins, but only 6 2nds and 87 top 10s. This makes him clutch/lucky, but not necessarily any more skilled than say Fowler with 10 wins, 17 2nds and 99 top 10s (but in more starts, so not a perfect comparision). 

 

JT had a good Am career, but only made US Am semis once and finished t7 & t16 at the NCAA Championships. Lots of very good golf, but not a lock to win 15 PGA Tour titles before 30.

 

tgws may have his own reasons, but I always find it interesting how often announcers and forum posters say someone has underachieved or could have won more, but we almost never say a golfer overachieved or should have won less.

 

Love Rickie and i'm glad to see him win again but to say he's similarly skilled to JT is the end of my seriousness in your response...15 PGA tour wins compared to 6, 2 majors compared to 0, and JT is 4/5 years younger as well! what are you bringing up Amateur stuff for??

[SkiSchoolPro]

38 minutes ago, golf_junkie_85 said:

 

Love Rickie and i'm glad to see him win again but to say he's similarly skilled to JT is the end of my seriousness in your response...15 PGA tour wins compared to 6, 2 majors compared to 0, and JT is 4/5 years younger as well! what are you bringing up Amateur stuff for??

What are your criteria for over/under achieving because that was your question that I attempted to answer with regard to JT, not Rickie.

 

To me, one criteria is that overachievers win a higher % of time when they are in contention than underachievers.  Some also look at Am career as a predictor of pro potential...if you do better than your Am career would predict, then on could say you are an overachiever.

 

Fwiw, I wouldn't argue with calling anyone who wins 15 times on the PGA Tour by 30 an overachiever...even with Tiger, he put in a lot of work to maximize his potential.

 

JT has had 215 PGA Tour starts: 15 wins, 6 runner-ups, 74 top 10s, 176 made cuts.

 

In his first 215 PGA Tour starts Fowler: 4 wins, 13 runner-ups, 63 top 10, 170 made cuts. If you flip wins/runner-ups for either, the numbers are pretty similar with a slight edge to JT. If you flip for both, Rickie's  results are better.

 

My answer to your question is that JT is an overachiever because he won 15 with only 6 runner-ups and 74 top 10s after a very good but not all time great Am career. You don't have to accept my answer, but you said you were curious and nobody else gave you much of a response.

[Neo1]

15 minutes ago, SkiSchoolPro said:

What are your criteria for over/under achieving because that was your question that I attempted to answer with regard to JT, not Rickie.

 

To me, one criteria is that overachievers win a higher % of time when they are in contention than underachievers.  Some also look at Am career as a predictor of pro potential...if you do better than your Am career would predict, then on could say you are an overachiever.

 

Fwiw, I wouldn't argue with calling anyone who wins 15 times on the PGA Tour by 30 an overachiever...even with Tiger, he put in a lot of work to maximize his potential.

 

JT has had 215 PGA Tour starts: 15 wins, 6 runner-ups, 74 top 10s, 176 made cuts.

 

In his first 215 PGA Tour starts Fowler: 4 wins, 13 runner-ups, 63 top 10, 170 made cuts. If you flip wins/runner-ups for either, the numbers are pretty similar with a slight edge to JT. If you flip for both, Rickie's  results are better.

 

My answer to your question is that JT is an overachiever because he won 15 with only 6 runner-ups and 74 top 10s after a very good but not all time great Am career. You don't have to accept my answer, but you said you were curious and nobody else gave you much of a response.

 

I have no criteria when it comes to assessing someone's game, I think the results are what proves the player...I never said JT was an under/over achiever at all, I was just curious why that member said he was an overachiever as I don't think anyone can assess that about a guy who's just 30 years old and already won majors. maybe at the end of one's career we can label them one or the other?? so would you be shocked if JT won 2 more majors and 15 more PGA tour titles for his entire 30's? I wouldn't. thanks for digging up the #'s and providing your point of view but I don't agree with it...15 wins is a lot before age 30, that's no fluke.

[Chunked]

I wonder if a second set of eyes on JT would be good for him. 

[SkiSchoolPro]

On 7/2/2023 at 8:20 PM, golf_junkie_85 said:

 

I have no criteria when it comes to assessing someone's game, I think the results are what proves the player...I never said JT was an under/over achiever at all, I was just curious why that member said he was an overachiever as I don't think anyone can assess that about a guy who's just 30 years old and already won majors. maybe at the end of one's career we can label them one or the other?? so would you be shocked if JT won 2 more majors and 15 more PGA tour titles for his entire 30's? I wouldn't. thanks for digging up the #'s and providing your point of view but I don't agree with it...15 wins is a lot before age 30, that's no fluke.

Never said he was a fluke. 15 wins is a lot- definitely NOT an underachiever.

 

With that said, I'll take the under for 2 Majors and 15 wins for JT in his 30s.

[So_Cal]

JT needs to put the Jailbird in play.  Want to see him get another major 

[Neo1]

12 minutes ago, SkiSchoolPro said:

Never said he was a fluke. 15 wins is a lot- definitely NOT an underachiever.

 

With that said, I'll take the under for 2 Majors and 15 wins for JT in his 30s.

 

calling someone an overachiever is kinda like calling them a fluke....it's like saying someone isn't clutch but hey I didn't say he's a choker! getting in contention compared to actually winning tournaments is what separates good from great players. Rickie must be a MASSIVE underachiever in your eyes?? right??

[jaffabell]

On 6/19/2023 at 9:21 AM, MattyO1984 said:

JT is my guy and it’s been hard to watch him playing the way that he has done over much of the last year or so.

 

The wins he he had in 2021 and 2022 were great, great wins - a PGA and a Players Championship - 99% of the guys out there would take that as a career and say thank you very much but events of a huge statute aside, two wins in almost three years is not the rate of knots that he has shown himself to be capable off. 

 

The putter of course has been an issue for some time and the sea of negative numbers on his putting stats means that to compete he needs every other part of his game to be at a higher level and whilst around the green he seems to be about as good as ever, everything else has fallen off. His driving seems (by comparison to others) to have become shorter and more crooked. It’s interesting to see his ball speed numbers off the tee. Whilst those you would consider his peers are all regularly getting it into the 180’s, he seems to really have to go some to get into that realm and his swing speed is down at 77th fastest.  His iron play which over the years had always been Top 10 at worst is now suddenly just in the Top 50. With those drop offs added to his putting, it is not surprising that he is not clocking up the regular top 10’s never mind wins. 

 

Two things that jump to my mind to explain it are one which I have heard and one that I have thought. The one I have heard mentioned but never in any great detail is that there is some kind of injury. JT does not appear to have mentioned it anywhere but it has been mentioned a handful of times on a popular podcast. The other issue that I have pondered, and having nothing to actually back it up, is that in becoming the guy that has more the shots than almost anyone does he stand over the ball with almost too many options. Seemed like the years he won multiple times on Tour he did it by hitting it hard and hitting it high with his driver and irons. He now has many more shots and is more complete but the one dimensional golfer won more. As I say that it just a thought I have had and I have no other basis of thinking it other than likely being a huge fan and watching more of JT than most. 

No Matty, JT is my guy! 🙂

 

Are you off to the Scottish next week? Iv been the last 5 times now, watched JT each time he has been there... The best one was 2019 when he shot a great round, I walked the back 9 with his mam and dad and they were good conversation. He was puring it that day and I was right up close watching his warm up - Mike had put the Ipad right in front of us so could see his numbers for each shot. 4 iron was carrying 230-240 and looked like he was barely hitting it.

 

Was hard to watch him have such a poor round when I was there last year on the Friday - granted the wind was mental that day but he was all over the shop. Hoping for some decent weather on Friday to follow him again! And Slick Rick.

Edited July 7, 2023 by jaffabell

[Ferguson]

All professional golfers have their ups and downs.  But, understandably in JT's case, he might have a some personal issues going on.  These "hot mic outbursts" or the fact his wife caught him watching a bootleg copy of the 2014 sci fi thriller Ex Machina could be having a negative impact on the game.  Three things to remember, never rat on your friends, always keep your mouth shut and never watch a sci fi movie without inviting your wife. 

 

 

[MattyO1984]

3 hours ago, jaffabell said:

No Matty, JT is my guy! 🙂

 

Are you off to the Scottish next week? Iv been the last 5 times now, watched JT each time he has been there... The best one was 2019 when he shot a great round, I walked the back 9 with his mam and dad and they were good conversation. He was puring it that day and I was right up close watching his warm up - Mike had put the Ipad right in front of us so could see his numbers for each shot. 4 iron was carrying 230-240 and looked like he was barely hitting it.

 

Was hard to watch him have such a poor round when I was there last year on the Friday - granted the wind was mental that day but he was all over the shop. Hoping for some decent weather on Friday to follow him again! And Slick Rick.

 

I am a maybe for heading down! I wasn't there last year but I was at St Andrews and the year prior I got stuck with Covid the week off. I am 100% sure that we must have been stood next to one another in 2019 on the range. I had a video where he was hitting driver and after he hit it, I was able to zoom in on the iPad screen. Mike spoke away to my friend and us, we still joke about him cracking open a can of McEwans Export 😂

[Titleist99]

6 hours ago, Ferguson said:

All professional golfers have their ups and downs.  But, understandably in JT's case, he might have a some personal issues going on.  These "hot mic outbursts" or the fact his wife caught him watching a bootleg copy of the 2014 sci fi thriller Ex Machina could be having a negative impact on the game.  Three things to remember, never rat on your friends, always keep your mouth shut and never watch a sci fi movie without inviting your wife. 

 

 

Think that JT is playing golf swing. Looks like he's over thinking things instead of swinging free.

 

~Ex Machina.....one of the best  Sci fi thrillers of all time. highly recommended

[Pepperturbo]

If YOU, whoever you are, can't understand the obstacles someone like JT and Speith face, you been sitting on the couch far too long, watching tube golf.  Maybe it's time to set some goals and make something of your life.

[mat562]

Borrowing Tom Cruise's shoes has thrown the low point of his swing out of kilter.

 

[JetSpeed79]