Ludvig Åberg - generational player?

[Dutch1008]

1 hour ago, Shilgy said:

6th all time in hits is worth something, I would think.

Its worth a lot. In fact it's worth a hall of fame nod and his number retired as a yankee. But I don't think that makes Jeter "generational". It's kind of like classifying Phil as generational. He has some wonderful accomplishments to be sure. 6 majors, 45 career wins, decorated amatuer career. But can you be generational in the shadow of Tiger? Jeter has the rings but was he a better player than Bonds, Griffey Jr, Arod? He never won an MVP, he never won a batting title. He was great for a long time, but never the best at any time.  

 

Plus, in conversations around who's better, I tend to find longevity based records overrated. They do mean something, but Karl Malone ain't Michael Jordan you know? 

 

1 hour ago, Shilgy said:

Reminds me of all the comments when Tiger started. EXACT same thing was said then…

When there is a Jr coming up the ranks that rips off multiple US and Junior amatuer titles we can get all hot and bothered. What made Curtis Strange's comments so stupid, was that he was completely dismissing somebody who had already accomplished things that had never been done. 

 

Right now, the only young buck that has even sniffed the accomplishments Tiger had before turning pro is Rose Zhang. And while she did win her 1st time out, she doesn't have the same kind of physical gifts that Tiger arrived with. I'm sure she'll have a fine career but I wouldn't be placing money on her unseating Annika just yet.    

[bcjim]

The sheer number of highly skilled golfers makes it improbable that there will ever be another "generational " talent. Tiger was the last. And the greatest,  imo. 

[Ferguson]

32 minutes ago, bcjim said:

The sheer number of highly skilled golfers makes it improbable that there will ever be another "generational " talent. Tiger was the last. And the greatest,  imo. 

 

This is going down the right track but let me add some thoughts.   All tour professionals are highly skilled golfers.  Many of them are capable of winning.  However, very few are exceptional.   

 

So, the question is raised - what separates the few from the many?

 

I look at it this way, in terms of Jack and Tiger:

 

We all know and have read (and watched) that both were powerful from the tee but had amazing touch and feel on the greens.   

 

However, beyond that, they were both very good at starting and finishing a hole meaning they were also very good at starting and finishing a golf tournament.  Their approach to playing golf was different.   It's almost as if they played out the scenario of winning when approaching the first tee on Thursday.  They both had powerful minds, and I believe they succeeded mainly due to their ability to overcome the mental weight that bogs down other players.  Their approach to each shot on each hole along with mental preparedness gave them a 3 shot advantage on Thursday.  When the mind is free, the decisions come easier and the percentages go up.        

 

 

 

Feel free to speculate about the talent of young Ludwig.  When he has 15+ majors and at least 50 wins, he can be considered one of the few.   Until then, he's just another player. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bscinstnct]

15 minutes ago, Ferguson said:

 

This is going down the right track but let me add some thoughts.   All tour professionals are highly skilled golfers.  Many of them are capable of winning.  However, very few are exceptional.   

 

So, the question is raised - what separates the few from the many?

 

I look at it this way, in terms of Jack and Tiger:

 

We all know and have read (and watched) that both were powerful from the tee but had amazing touch and feel on the greens.   

 

However, beyond that, they were both very good at starting and finishing a hole meaning they were also very good at starting and finishing a golf tournament.  Their approach to playing golf was different.   It's almost as if they played out the scenario of winning when approaching the first tee on Thursday.  They both had powerful minds, and I believe they succeeded mainly due to their ability to overcome the mental weight that bogs down other players.  Their approach to each shot on each hole along with mental preparedness gave them a 3 shot advantage on Thursday.  When the mind is free, the decisions come easier and the percentages go up.        

 

 

 

Feel free to speculate about the talent of young Ludwig.  When he has 15+ majors and at least 50 wins, he can be considered one of the few.   Until then, he's just another player. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

“they were both very good at starting and finishing a hole meaning they were also very good at starting and finishing a golf tournament.”

 

And there you go, the simplest solution is the best. 
 

Tiger 1.0 simply had the best tool box from tee to the hole. He was elite off the tee, approach, around the green, and putting. 
 

Nobody since TW executes every element of the game so effectively. 
 

Of the guys who have shown indications of being “generational” since TW, Rory and Spieth obviously have holes in their game, even their very best game.

 

The closest to TW as far as the strongest game all around seems to be BK, but just in majors. And he’s close…not quite as strong all around.

 

I mean, TW showed up at Augusta and destroyed the place and the entire field at 21 years old!

 

Even if you consider the fields today to be deeper, the “next Tiger” will be a 21 or so year old you see come out and win a major by 5+ shots. 

Edited September 19, 2023 by bscinstnct

[Shilgy]

11 hours ago, Dutch1008 said:

Its worth a lot. In fact it's worth a hall of fame nod and his number retired as a yankee. But I don't think that makes Jeter "generational". It's kind of like classifying Phil as generational. He has some wonderful accomplishments to be sure. 6 majors, 45 career wins, decorated amatuer career. But can you be generational in the shadow of Tiger? Jeter has the rings but was he a better player than Bonds, Griffey Jr, Arod? He never won an MVP, he never won a batting title. He was great for a long time, but never the best at any time.  

 

Plus, in conversations around who's better, I tend to find longevity based records overrated. They do mean something, but Karl Malone ain't Michael Jordan you know? 

 

When there is a Jr coming up the ranks that rips off multiple US and Junior amatuer titles we can get all hot and bothered. What made Curtis Strange's comments so stupid, was that he was completely dismissing somebody who had already accomplished things that had never been done. 

 

Right now, the only young buck that has even sniffed the accomplishments Tiger had before turning pro is Rose Zhang. And while she did win her 1st time out, she doesn't have the same kind of physical gifts that Tiger arrived with. I'm sure she'll have a fine career but I wouldn't be placing money on her unseating Annika just yet.    

Yeah, as for the Jeter part I was not referring to him as generational….just better career than Nomar.  Way better.

 

For baseball today?  Trout would have been but injuries have taken a serious toll.  Coming up it could be Acuna….but there are so many great young players that it would be hard for one to separate himself from the others.

[DataGolfer]

On 9/16/2023 at 11:46 PM, Mcgeeno said:

He's the real deal.

 

If anyone followed college golf the last five years you knew he was the "next guy".

 

Same as the Hovland/Morikawa grouping.

 

That was the "Morikawa/Wolff/Hovland" grouping...

 

now, it's the "Scheffler, Hovland, and will Morikawa ever win again?" grouping while Wolff fades into LIV obscurity...

 

Point being... Aberg is a few dozen wins and more than a handful of majors from generational. Even Rory isn't.

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by DataGolfer

[Mcgeeno]

1 minute ago, DataGolfer said:

 

That was the "Morikawa/Wolff/Hovland" grouping...

 

now, it's the "Hovland and will Morikawa ever win again?" grouping while Wolff fades into LIV obscurity...

 

Point being... Aberg is a few dozen wins and more than a handful of majors from generational. Even Rory isn't.

 

 

You generational is fast and loose. I'll go with "really good prospect". 

 

[Dutch1008]

3 hours ago, Shilgy said:

For baseball today?  Trout would have been but injuries have taken a serious toll.  Coming up it could be Acuna….but there are so many great young players that it would be hard for one to separate himself from the others.

Trout was definitely on the path to being a modern day Micky Mantle or Willy Mays. Outside of 2001 PED version Bonds, I've never seen anyone nearly as good as Mike Trout. Power, speed, defense. The dude was a monster. 

 

I would classify Ohtani as generational. He probably wont have the longevity to truly make his mark but I'm not sure we'll ever see another two way talent like that. The man hit 44 HRs in 135 games and pitched like a legitimate Ace. That kind of talent is just unfair.     

[mosesgolf]

1 hour ago, Dutch1008 said:

Trout was definitely on the path to being a modern day Micky Mantle or Willy Mays. Outside of 2001 PED version Bonds, I've never seen anyone nearly as good as Mike Trout. Power, speed, defense. The dude was a monster. 

 

I would classify Ohtani as generational. He probably wont have the longevity to truly make his mark but I'm not sure we'll ever see another two way talent like that. The man hit 44 HRs in 135 games and pitched like a legitimate Ace. That kind of talent is just unfair.     

Oh what Trout might have been if he played for an iconic franchise and not the Angels.  If he played for the Yankees the media would've dubbed him the 2nd coming of Mantle.

 

Angels are like the Clippers.  Trout and Ohtani together and they did absolutely didly squat.

[TiScape]

The fact that this is on page 4 screams OFF SEASON! 🤪

[aenemated]

18 hours ago, Dutch1008 said:

What made Curtis Strange's comments so stupid, was that he was completely dismissing somebody who had already accomplished things that had never been done. 

 

I love watching that interview. Cuz CS absolutely could have been right. But it didn't even phase T-Dub. He knew. 

 

And looking back at it with the eyes we have now; we know he knew.

 

At the time ... yeah, CS was towards the end of his peak but he was damn formidable in his day. It'd be like some kid these days sitting down with - say - Adam Scott and being all "Yeah, I'm just gonna beat all of yall." AS be all "lolwut?" And the kid's all "What I said."

 

 

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by aenemated

[mosesgolf]

 

 

You think Tiger wasn’t thinking the same thing?

CS was such a you know what.

[Dutch1008]

2 hours ago, aenemated said:

At the time ... yeah, CS was towards the end of his peak but he was damn formidable in his day. It'd be like some kid these days sitting down with - say - Adam Scott and being all "Yeah, I'm just gonna beat all of yall." AS be all "lolwut?" And the kid's all "What I said."

 

Adam Scott is such a laid back gentlemen's golfer I'm pretty confident that he'd handle it a lot better than CS. 

 

Future Young Buck: "My goal is to put 4 good rounds together and I'd like to win"

 

AS: "Listen mate, I knew Eldrick Woods and kiddo, you're no Eldrick Woods but best wishes"

[Dutch1008]

13 minutes ago, mosesgolf said:

You think Tiger wasn’t thinking the same thing?

CS was such a you know what.

 

What did CS expect? "Well, I'm just happy to be here and hope to make the cut sir". I'd give CS a pass had he just joked w/ him a little bit, "This ain't university or an amatuer event, when was the last time you had a putt w/ $250k on the line?". The phrase is "youthful arrogance" not "youthful respect". Why on earth would you get offended by Tiger's answer. Well besides being an *hole of course.  

[aenemated]

15 minutes ago, Dutch1008 said:

Adam Scott is such a laid back gentlemen's golfer I'm pretty confident that he'd handle it a lot better than CS. 

 

Hahah was trying to think of someone these days with a similar career and status as CS had when that went down. For whatever reason, Adam Scott was the first that came to mind. 

[BNGL]

Tbh Ludvig is the first player I’ve heard other players talk about. I played with a couple Tour guys not long after he won and was picked for the Ryder Cup. I haven’t ever heard other players go have you seen him yet or know anything about him. I was amazed at his age and just how ready the current crop of players are to play on Tour (KF/PGA). One of the guys in the group said his younger brother played with him in college and just said he was told the guys legit. But it is in Europe, so we’ll see how that transfers to PGA Tour. It was ultimately interesting to hear legit players be curious about a younger guy he’s generating buzz haven’t heard that before. 
 

 

[Dicka]

3 hours ago, BNGL said:

I was amazed at his age and just how ready the current crop of players are to play on Tour (KF/PGA). 

 

 

No doubt he'll be a very good player...but he's 23. Plenty of top line players have been very successful much earlier than him so I'd put him in the "wait and see" category. I wish him all the best.

[Shankieboink]

It's interesting that several people here emphasize not caring about money to become generational. Personally, I don't believe in that. But if it is a factor, Åberg is in a good position. Before he had earned a single penny from golf and was an amateur, he was offered a large sum of money by LIV. He declined. It takes something special for that. Not least an extreme belief in oneself. He is quite a few wins away from earning that money.

 

I still believe that the majority in here have a very narrow definition of ”generational”. I don't think that someone like Luke Donald, when using that term, is saying that Åberg is the next Tiger Woods or Jack Nicklaus.

[Ferguson]

Speaking of a generational player, we should pause to acknowledge September 20th - the birthday of Fernando Rey. 

 

 

 

 

 

[bscinstnct]

12 hours ago, BNGL said:

Tbh Ludvig is the first player I’ve heard other players talk about. I played with a couple Tour guys not long after he won and was picked for the Ryder Cup. I haven’t ever heard other players go have you seen him yet or know anything about him. I was amazed at his age and just how ready the current crop of players are to play on Tour (KF/PGA). One of the guys in the group said his younger brother played with him in college and just said he was told the guys legit. But it is in Europe, so we’ll see how that transfers to PGA Tour. It was ultimately interesting to hear legit players be curious about a younger guy he’s generating buzz haven’t heard that before. 
 

 

That’s a good sign. Despite CStrange condescension in 96, even as early as 94, pros were already acknowledging that TW was a potential “the one”, per Feinstein for example…

 

“The first time I laid eyes on Tiger Woods was in March 1994 at Bay Hill for Arnold Palmer's tournament. I was standing on the range on Wednesday afternoon, talking to Peter Jacobsen, Davis Love III and Billy Andrade. Billy pointed down the range at a skinny kid hitting balls. "You know who that is?" he said.

You should know," Billy continued. "That's Tiger Woods. He's the Next One."…….

 

 

"I thought you and Fred were the Next Ones," I said to Love.

 

"Not like this kid," Love said.”

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/golf-tiger-woods-john-feinstein-book/amp

 

 

It’s not remotely likely that Aberg approaches anything near TWs success, unless he wins like 5 majors in the next 2 years!

 

But we could definitely do with a young gun who can seriously win and put this current crop of “elite”… who is getting a bit stale 

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by bscinstnct

[bladehunter]

On 9/19/2023 at 5:58 AM, bcjim said:

The sheer number of highly skilled golfers makes it improbable that there will ever be another "generational " talent. Tiger was the last. And the greatest,  imo. 

Agree. And with todays equipment and pay , tiger was the Last dominant player.  

[bladehunter]

14 hours ago, mosesgolf said:

 

 

You think Tiger wasn’t thinking the same thing?

CS was such a you know what.

Very true. But even CS Would call himself that.  So it’s no real secret or revelation.  He’s always been blunt. Aloof even. But to be honest. Tiger is too. It’s off putting at times. But I find it preferable to the fake nice face a lot put on , then stab you in the back when you’re not looking.  🤷‍♂️.  So …eh… I think CS comments on hindsight are dumb. But in the moment they were probably pretty reasonable if said to 99 % of the players coming up.  So yea. He was proven to be an idiot.  But nobody is arguing that point.  
 

Not shot at you. Just thinking aloud 

Edited September 20, 2023 by bladehunter

[bscinstnct]

18 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Agree. And with todays equipment and pay , tiger was the Last dominant player.  

 

Unless it was…clone Tiger!

 

Hed kill these chumps

 

Why?

 

Let’s not forget, TW was super elite in driving until the fields got their hands on 400cc/graphite. 
 

TW begrudgingly made the switch in 2002 and his driving accuracy plummeted. Still great distance but nowhere near his elite total driving stats in late 90s/2000

 

And even straying the ball off the tee, he still got back to dominating in a year or so!

 

You clone TW and he “grows up” playing the modern driving gear, he destroys everybody just as bad ; )

[mosesgolf]

2 hours ago, bladehunter said:

Very true. But even CS Would call himself that.  So it’s no real secret or revelation.  He’s always been blunt. Aloof even. But to be honest. Tiger is too. It’s off putting at times. But I find it preferable to the fake nice face a lot put on , then stab you in the back when you’re not looking.  🤷‍♂️.  So …eh… I think CS comments on hindsight are dumb. But in the moment they were probably pretty reasonable if said to 99 % of the players coming up.  So yea. He was proven to be an idiot.  But nobody is arguing that point.  
 

Not shot at you. Just thinking aloud 

Imo the fact that Curtis is not well liked by many makes this interview more cringe worthy.   The fact that Curtis laughed in Tiger’s face adds to the insult.   Lots of guys ate their words when it came to Tiger.  Colin Montgomery is another example.

[mosesgolf]

1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Unless it was…clone Tiger!

 

Hed kill these chumps

 

Why?

 

Let’s not forget, TW was super elite in driving until the fields got their hands on 400cc/graphite. 
 

TW begrudgingly made the switch in 2002 and his driving accuracy plummeted. Still great distance but nowhere near his elite total driving stats in late 90s/2000

 

And even straying the ball off the tee, he still got back to dominating in a year or so!

 

You clone TW and he “grows up” playing the modern driving gear, he destroys everybody just as bad ; )

Late 2018 and 2019 proved that Tiger isn’t as good as he once was but he is as good once as he ever was.  Love that song by Toby Keith.  Lol

[JungleJimbo]

 

 

[ColinKelvin]

On 9/20/2023 at 3:36 PM, mosesgolf said:

Imo the fact that Curtis is not well liked by many makes this interview more cringe worthy.   The fact that Curtis laughed in Tiger’s face adds to the insult.   Lots of guys ate their words when it came to Tiger.  Colin Montgomery is another example.

To be fair to Monty, he was a leading player in contention in 97 after 2 rounds, and in a single interview bullishly (and foolishly) talked up his own experience against Tiger, who then blew him away in R3. Monty's shell-shocked look and comments at 5:55 in this video are quite funny (and I say that as someone who was always a fan of his).

 

 

[Shankieboink]

He just shot 251 (A new PGA-tour record?)

 

The hype is on again:

https://golf.com/news/the-tiger-woods-ludvig-aberg-rsm-classic-win/?amp=1

[Mcgeeno]

I think he's the best "prospect" I've seen since Tiger. 

 

I'm in awe.

[Nickb333]

Don’t care who you are… Back to back 61’s are pretty good.