Tiger and Nike golf to separate after PNC? (*** MERGED ***)

[TheMoneyShot]

30 minutes ago, Loose_Ferrule said:

You're a Tiger fan? I find that surprising😂

You know it🙃

[jds101086]

9 hours ago, pmo09 said:

 

I get all of that, but here's a counter. 

 

Tiger decides he wants to leave Nike and do his own thing. He can either i) start his own clothing company from scratch (which involves figuring out manufacturing, distribution, etc), or ii) partner with another brand that would give him greater upside than his Nike deal. Enter Taylormade. Taylormade historically hasn't had an apparel business. They also historically didn't have Tiger Woods. Tiger (as presumably a significant equity holder and the #1 Taylormade endorser) goes to Taylormade and asks for a clothing line. Taylormade has the same options as Tiger. Do they do this themselves, or do they just buy a smaller brand with manufacturing, a good reputation, and growing customer base that is 95x smaller than they are? Taylormade brings distribution to the table. The owners of Greyson are happy because their customer base just increased by orders of magnitude. Taylormade either comes on as majority shareholder, or their equity is converted to Taylormade stock. Taylormade is happy because they've just added another revenue stream to their business. Tiger is happy because he gets a much higher (presumably) royalty from his brand under Greyson, and as a Taylormade shareholder, equity value will increase (the bet is that the increase will be significant).

 

Add in the JT relationship (this would put cash in JT's pocket), the Rory connection with Greyson & Taylormade - having Rory coming on board in the future makes this an even more attractive option for Greyson and Taylormade and Tiger. 

 

Valid.

Tiger didn’t decide to leave Nike. Nike cut a ton of players as they didn’t want/couldn’t afford them any longer. I’m sure it was open discussion and Tiger knew this before anyone outside of the decision makers at Nike. Probably why a mock up of his logo came out so soon after the announcement.

I could be wrong(probably am) that if Tiger had no suitors for an apparel line, he wouldn’t pursue one on his own from the ground up. He’s not a fashionable guy and seems to not give a sh*t what he wears.

If TM were to buy Grayson they would have wanted it regardless of having a TW line. As we all know Tigers Nike line never sold well, I’d have to assume a single digit percentage of their golf apparel sales. It’d be a reasonable thing to assume that SDR line would capture cannibalize some go Grayson sales and grow it marginally. TM being as large as they are and Grayson being as niche as they are I can’t imagine a scenario where TM would look at the projections and numbers and feel good about the investment. If Nike gets out of an industry where they make money, but not enough money; I’d assume TM would feel the same. Is the juice worth the squeeze or are we getting into a new market just because we can? 

Also TM being owned by private equity plays a part. Those people aren’t looking to make big investments and buying up companies.

Grayson is made in Peru, it’s not like they have their own factories spitting out polos. TM could pick up the phone and in 5 minutes have 5 comparable factories. Quality is not something you have to learn or throw massive R&D money at. Grayson doesn’t do anything a major company couldn’t learn in a week. If this were clubs then yes you’d have to figure how much time and money you’d save in R&D by just buying a company who already has that done.

So they buy Grayson for $100mil(no clue their value) and what are they getting they couldn’t figure out in a short amount of time? A growing company, a reputation, and saving a handful of months of time to spin up the SDR line? 

The way TM and Tiger make the most out of this is doing it themselves. launching a new line, next to the one you bought already in the hole $100mil? Obviously there will be large start up costs but not $100mil.

Not touching the equity piece as we have no clue who has what and what it’s worth.

Stepping away from the business side and back to a golfer who buys this stuff. Travis Mathews quality has fallen off a cliff since Callaway bout them. No reason not to assume as much if TM buys Grayson. Grayson will never be near top 5 in clothing as far as volume. Too niche, expensive, small presence at clubs and retail. Obviously they will continue to grow but I can’t imagine anyone over 40 wearing their fit/style of clothing.

Then you have Tigers new logo… and it’s a**. JT doesn’t make one ounce of a difference in Tiger and TM’s decision making. He doesn’t move the needle at all. If equity plays out and JT gets a little extra cash thanks to a deal it’s a happy little sidenote.

[Loose_Ferrule]

13 hours ago, jds101086 said:

 

Valid.

Tiger didn’t decide to leave Nike. Nike cut a ton of players as they didn’t want/couldn’t afford them any longer. I’m sure it was open discussion and Tiger knew this before anyone outside of the decision makers at Nike. Probably why a mock up of his logo came out so soon after the announcement.

I could be wrong(probably am) that if Tiger had no suitors for an apparel line, he wouldn’t pursue one on his own from the ground up. He’s not a fashionable guy and seems to not give a sh*t what he wears.

If TM were to buy Grayson they would have wanted it regardless of having a TW line. As we all know Tigers Nike line never sold well, I’d have to assume a single digit percentage of their golf apparel sales. It’d be a reasonable thing to assume that SDR line would capture cannibalize some go Grayson sales and grow it marginally. TM being as large as they are and Grayson being as niche as they are I can’t imagine a scenario where TM would look at the projections and numbers and feel good about the investment. If Nike gets out of an industry where they make money, but not enough money; I’d assume TM would feel the same. Is the juice worth the squeeze or are we getting into a new market just because we can? 

Also TM being owned by private equity plays a part. Those people aren’t looking to make big investments and buying up companies.

Grayson is made in Peru, it’s not like they have their own factories spitting out polos. TM could pick up the phone and in 5 minutes have 5 comparable factories. Quality is not something you have to learn or throw massive R&D money at. Grayson doesn’t do anything a major company couldn’t learn in a week. If this were clubs then yes you’d have to figure how much time and money you’d save in R&D by just buying a company who already has that done.

So they buy Grayson for $100mil(no clue their value) and what are they getting they couldn’t figure out in a short amount of time? A growing company, a reputation, and saving a handful of months of time to spin up the SDR line? 

The way TM and Tiger make the most out of this is doing it themselves. launching a new line, next to the one you bought already in the hole $100mil? Obviously there will be large start up costs but not $100mil.

Not touching the equity piece as we have no clue who has what and what it’s worth.

Stepping away from the business side and back to a golfer who buys this stuff. Travis Mathews quality has fallen off a cliff since Callaway bout them. No reason not to assume as much if TM buys Grayson. Grayson will never be near top 5 in clothing as far as volume. Too niche, expensive, small presence at clubs and retail. Obviously they will continue to grow but I can’t imagine anyone over 40 wearing their fit/style of clothing.

Then you have Tigers new logo… and it’s a**. JT doesn’t make one ounce of a difference in Tiger and TM’s decision making. He doesn’t move the needle at all. If equity plays out and JT gets a little extra cash thanks to a deal it’s a happy little sidenote.

FYI - It's Greyson

[TheMoneyShot]

For those who care…

 

 

Edited February 12 by TheMoneyShot

[dfwgolfer92]

14 hours ago, jds101086 said:

 

Valid.

Tiger didn’t decide to leave Nike. Nike cut a ton of players as they didn’t want/couldn’t afford them any longer. I’m sure it was open discussion and Tiger knew this before anyone outside of the decision makers at Nike. Probably why a mock up of his logo came out so soon after the announcement.

I could be wrong(probably am) that if Tiger had no suitors for an apparel line, he wouldn’t pursue one on his own from the ground up. He’s not a fashionable guy and seems to not give a sh*t what he wears.

If TM were to buy Grayson they would have wanted it regardless of having a TW line. As we all know Tigers Nike line never sold well, I’d have to assume a single digit percentage of their golf apparel sales. It’d be a reasonable thing to assume that SDR line would capture cannibalize some go Grayson sales and grow it marginally. TM being as large as they are and Grayson being as niche as they are I can’t imagine a scenario where TM would look at the projections and numbers and feel good about the investment. If Nike gets out of an industry where they make money, but not enough money; I’d assume TM would feel the same. Is the juice worth the squeeze or are we getting into a new market just because we can? 

Also TM being owned by private equity plays a part. Those people aren’t looking to make big investments and buying up companies.

Grayson is made in Peru, it’s not like they have their own factories spitting out polos. TM could pick up the phone and in 5 minutes have 5 comparable factories. Quality is not something you have to learn or throw massive R&D money at. Grayson doesn’t do anything a major company couldn’t learn in a week. If this were clubs then yes you’d have to figure how much time and money you’d save in R&D by just buying a company who already has that done.

So they buy Grayson for $100mil(no clue their value) and what are they getting they couldn’t figure out in a short amount of time? A growing company, a reputation, and saving a handful of months of time to spin up the SDR line? 

The way TM and Tiger make the most out of this is doing it themselves. launching a new line, next to the one you bought already in the hole $100mil? Obviously there will be large start up costs but not $100mil.

Not touching the equity piece as we have no clue who has what and what it’s worth.

Stepping away from the business side and back to a golfer who buys this stuff. Travis Mathews quality has fallen off a cliff since Callaway bout them. No reason not to assume as much if TM buys Grayson. Grayson will never be near top 5 in clothing as far as volume. Too niche, expensive, small presence at clubs and retail. Obviously they will continue to grow but I can’t imagine anyone over 40 wearing their fit/style of clothing.

Then you have Tigers new logo… and it’s a**. JT doesn’t make one ounce of a difference in Tiger and TM’s decision making. He doesn’t move the needle at all. If equity plays out and JT gets a little extra cash thanks to a deal it’s a happy little sidenote.

Buying Greyson is exactly the type of move private equity would do.  I work in this space and its a perfect match, relatively low capital outlay (they would do debt issuance from Taylormade's book), they get instant brand equity and inorganic growth from an apparel line they currently don't offer.  Product expansion, entrance to a younger demographic which fits Taylormade's strategy (they clearly target the younger generation with their marketing, ad presence and partnerships with high-view Youtube channels (Foreplay, Horvat, Micah Morris, etc.).

 

This would be a perfect fit for private equity to do as a bolt-on acquisition.

[3PuttLefty]

Wasnt there supposed to be an announcement for Tiger’s SDR today? 2/12/24??

[averysdad]

20 minutes ago, 3PuttLefty said:

Wasnt there supposed to be an announcement for Tiger’s SDR today? 2/12/24??

Supposedly there’s still a press conference scheduled for 7pm est

[Minarets]

Should be starting any minute.  Scheduled for 5:30 PST

[Frankensteins Monster]

23 minutes ago, Minarets said:

Should be starting any minute.  Scheduled for 5:30 PST

SDR is idiotic. Sunday is one word.

[lefty1978]

[Frankensteins Monster]

5 minutes ago, lefty1978 said:

[iNeedMoreGolf]

Is there anyway to sign back with nike real quick lol. Not diggin that logo at least do the TW logo.

[TheMoneyShot]

This line looks awful and this is coming from a TW guy🤮

[00steven]

I’ll maybe buy a glove and a hat tops but the clothing is a pass from me. I wish Tiger well, but I’ll ride with Nike.

[ik ben groot]

I was just looking at them all on Getty and now they're gone lol. The red polo reminds me of Nike Federer polos from around 2012.

[BagofToast]

Stuff looks nice, y'all acting like nike wouldn't release something similar and drool over it. 

[TheMoneyShot]

3 minutes ago, 00steven said:

I’ll maybe buy a glove and a hat tops but the clothing is a pass from me. I wish Tiger well, but I’ll ride with Nike.

Yeah,  I may buy a hat to throw on every now and then.  I’ll definitely be sticking to Greyson. 

[Holy Moses]

Logos are a crucial way to introduce your product and that logo just screams amateur hour. Tiger’s clothes look like everything else out there but with a logo that looks like it was made in Microsoft Paint. 
 

What is ⬇️? You can tell Tiger has a big hand in this and that’s not a good thing looking at his clothing choices historically. 

 

Edited February 13 by Holy Moses

[HillbillyHoma]

You'll find these on the clearance rack in a few months.

[3PuttLefty]

 

24 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

Logos are a crucial way to introduce your product and that logo just screams amateur hour. Tiger’s clothes look like everything else out there but with a logo that looks like it was made in Microsoft Paint. 

“Chatgpt make a Tiger  Woods logo” 

 

Edited February 13 by 3PuttLefty

[dupaloop3611]

That red polo is garbage. Quality looks sub par top

[Holy Moses]

3 minutes ago, 3PuttLefty said:

Why is Sun D

“Chatgpt make a Tiger  Woods logo” 

 

It would have come up with a solid one

[third-times-a-charm]

Hahaha told yall this would suck.

[BagofToast]

1 minute ago, third-times-a-charm said:

Hahaha told yall this would suck.

How does it suck? Stuff looks nice, nothing Nike wouldn't make

[eddie_max]

What's a Sun day?  Like, a sunny day?

[dchristo17]

2 minutes ago, eddie_max said:

What's a Sun day?  Like, a sunny day?

its cause you golf in the sun duh!(I think its stupid and just another low quality TM cash grab

[zap311]

Not a fan of the apparel shown today. Seems a bit plain. 
 

I also think it’s silly to have two words for Sun Day. I bet it was a trademark issue they discovered after Tiger was sold on that brand name. 

Edited February 13 by zap311

[JLew]

3 minutes ago, zap311 said:

Not a fan of the apparel shown today. Seems a bit plain. 
 

I also think it’s silly to have two words for Sun Day. I bet it was a trademark issue they discovered after Tiger was sold on that brand name. 

The explanation was hilarious.  He fumbled through an explanation about how golf is played in the sun and on other days.  

But the Tiger brand is connected to red on Sundays, not other days.

[TheMoneyShot]

Just watched the entire announcement.  This will be a “super premium” line that will include cashmere and other top tier fabrics around the world.  Shoes will be in the lineup too.  All products launching on May 1st. 

[PowerFade36]

Big Tiger fan and this just looks like a blunder.