Golf Popularity... Issue?!

[alarson]

Seems there is always talk, or even concern, about the popularity of golf.  (see the answer to pickleball thread as an example)  My question is... Why?!

 

Our courses in Nebraska are absolutely slammed with people.  Private courses, muni courses, public courses are all full all the time.

This seems to be a regular topic in conversation amongst golfers in this area.  There is a LOT of younger golfers filling the courses in the middle of the afternoon during the week (in addition to the nights and weekends crowd).  Who knows if these guys are unemployed, "working from home", retired at age 30, taking the day off, college or older high school kids playing in between classes... regardless of the "how", they are there.

I personally feel courses should raise daily green fees to thin out the crowds a bit.  In theory, your bottom line is similar, the course takes less of a beating, and the members / regular golfers are happier.  Our largest and busiest city course has done just the opposite.  Their daily green fees are actually DOWN nearly 50% from 10 years ago, yet memberships are up significantly.  Seemingly encouraging the "problem"

 

I guess I miss the days of rolling into one of our courses (private CC or public course) without a tee time and playing a 3 hr round.

[jholz]

I've been playing the game since I was 7. I work in the nonprofit industry. I have two kids at home. 

 

Your plan would make it increasingly difficult for me to play. Fiscally speaking, I'd have to stop buying pants for my kids in order to satisfy my golfing needs. 

 

It seems that you are suggesting that I send my kids to school without pants?

 

What kind of a monster are you????

[ae1985]

So I gotta pay more for taking a day off to play golf so the retired guys can have their usual tee times? GTFO.

[MattM97]

Don't want to deal with the public join a private club, can't do a private club then play with the masses. 

[tatertot]

This is a horrible idea ... Roads too crowded, raise gas prices! Mall to crowded, raise prices! 

[vandyfan]

41 minutes ago, alarson said:

I guess I miss the days of rolling into one of our courses (private CC or public course) without a tee time and playing a 3 hr round.

 

Up until 2019 golf course closures were steadily increasing. A lot of this was in response to a dramatic overbuild that took place in the 1990s and early 2000s so some of it is reaching a kind of homeostasis. Property values continue to increase so it gets harder and harder to justify building a New golf course these days (especially a public one that doesn't have a bunch of upfront funding from initiation fees or FOUNDING members). I agree, golf courses being packed kind of sucks but if we go back to empty golf courses we will likely see more golf courses close, in my opinion. Yes, you could raise rates but golf, for many, has some elasticity to its demand. If it cost me $100 a round to play my muni instead of $30, that changes my economics....dramatically. Playing once a week goes from $1,560/year to $5,200/year. 

 

[Kai Slater]

If it wasn't for the "lower" prices of some of our courses, me and many others would be priced out of the game altogether.  Having more people playing is just something we will have to deal with.  All the wealthy elites who look down on the rest of us regular people should just go on to their private clubs  where they won't have deal with common folks like me.

[skim4]

39 minutes ago, vandyfan said:

 

Up until 2019 golf course closures were steadily increasing. A lot of this was in response to a dramatic overbuild that took place in the 1990s and early 2000s so some of it is reaching a kind of homeostasis. Property values continue to increase so it gets harder and harder to justify building a New golf course these days (especially a public one that doesn't have a bunch of upfront funding from initiation fees or FOUNDING members). I agree, golf courses being packed kind of sucks but if we go back to empty golf courses we will likely see more golf courses close, in my opinion. Yes, you could raise rates but golf, for many, has some elasticity to its demand. If it cost me $100 a round to play my muni instead of $30, that changes my economics....dramatically. Playing once a week goes from $1,560/year to $5,200/year. 

 

This guy econs. Nice write up Prof Commodore. 

[StoutKing]

A lot of people took up golf because of Covid.  I also notice a lot more young men who aren't quite athletic enough to be good at football or basketball are taking up golf.  Everything cycles.  Things will change again one way or the other.  I'm glad to have the chance to play the game and will enjoy as long as possible.

[VNutz]

Have courses by you not raised rates? Nearly every course I play is considerably more than it was previously. So they tried said increase and nobody blinked. Now we've got full courses, slower rounds and higher rates.

[ChipNRun]

3 hours ago, alarson said:

Seems there is always talk, or even concern, about the popularity of golf. ...

 

Our courses in Nebraska are absolutely slammed with people. ... There is a LOT of younger golfers filling the courses in the middle of the afternoon during the week (in addition to the nights and weekends crowd).  Who knows if these guys are unemployed, "working from home", retired at age 30, taking the day off, college or older high school kids playing in between classes... regardless of the "how", they are there.

I personally feel courses should raise daily green fees to thin out the crowds a bit.  In theory, your bottom line is similar, the course takes less of a beating, and the members / regular golfers are happier. 

 

Please explain to me why the LOT of younger golfers filling the courses are not regular golfers? Are you somehow more entitled than they are to play?

 

As for crowding, does your city (not mentioned) have fewer than its fair share of NE courses? Here is a sampling grid of Midwest golfdom.

 

Overall, NE has the lowest persons per course ratio of the three states, as per population figures of 2022.

 

3 hours ago, alarson said:

I guess I miss the days of rolling into one of our courses (private CC or public course) without a tee time and playing a 3 hr round.

 

If you can go out and play courses mid-afternoon, possibly you should join a private club. Are all the private clubs slammed also?

 

If area golf is overrun, why not buy a quarter section (160 acres of land) north of town and build another course? I will come up and design it for you for a modest fee. 

[Wolfhammer]

3 hours ago, alarson said:

There is a LOT of younger golfers filling the courses in the middle of the afternoon during the week (in addition to the nights and weekends crowd).  Who knows if these guys are unemployed, "working from home", retired at age 30, taking the day off, college or older high school kids playing in between classes... regardless of the "how", they are there.

 

Get outta here with this garbage. What are YOU doing golfing in the middle of the afternoon during the week that makes you better than them?

[ChipNRun]

3 hours ago, vandyfan said:

A lot of this was in response to a dramatic overbuild that took place in the 1990s and early 2000s so some of it is reaching a kind of homeostasis.

 

A lot of this was tied to residential golf communities - the idea that everyone in USA wanted to live in a $250K home (circa 2000 money) along the fairway. An initial shakeout occurred in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis, and basically kept going for 2010 decade.

 

Too many golf holes chasing too few golfers. We'll see how many new golfers stay with it following COVID golf surge.

 

Also: we'll see how much simulator-bay courses take pressure off of green-grass courses. News from South Korea about three years ago: More Koreans play simulator golf than green-grass golf.

[PNW]

I get it OP. I TOO would like a private course without paying for it. Why should these CC elites get all the private club benefits?!

[bobfoster]

52 minutes ago, Wolfhammer said:

4 hours ago, alarson said:

There is a LOT of younger golfers filling the courses in the middle of the afternoon during the week (in addition to the nights and weekends crowd).  Who knows if these guys are unemployed, "working from home", retired at age 30, taking the day off, college or older high school kids playing in between classes... regardless of the "how", they are there.

 

Get outta here with this garbage. What are YOU doing golfing in the middle of the afternoon during the week that makes you better than them?

Exactly.

 

I'm an older, responsible adult. Why just last week I purchased a vegetable to eat with my dinner without anyone telling me to. 

 

Still, I absolutely love seeing teens and 20 somethings taking up the game, and the growing number of women playing it. Lower cost public courses are part of what makes golf accessible and inviting to beginners in the next generation of golfers. 

 

Golf has one of the highest barriers to entry of any casual sport. Buy a basketball for $20, go to a school yard, and on your first time out you'll probably sink a few baskets. Cheap, and immediate gratification. Get a racquet and a can of balls, go to (often free) public courts with a friend, and even the first time you knock a ball around you'll be getting a few over the net. Soccer? A ball, your foot, a few friends and a patch of grass (or dirt). Walk into a bowling alley, rent some shoes and a ball (usually for less than the price of a movie ticket), and there's a not insignificant chance you'll l get a strike (even if accidental) the first time you play. Etc., etc.

 

But even a cheap set of remotely decent used clubs, balls, and other basic necessities can be a few hundred dollars. And at least your first few rounds are likely to be extremely frustrating. Right off the bat golf is expensive to get into, and there is usually no immediate gratification. For every one golfer, there are probably a few that tried it once or twice and said "oh hell no, this is ridiculous". And you want to make it more expensive to play those first few rounds? WTH?

 

Golf is having a resurgence, started in part by Covid, but many of those folks are sticking with it. I love seeing full courses. I love seeing beginners discovering this wonderful game. Yeah, so it is (sometimes) a bit harder to get tee times, and weekend rounds may occasionally take 4.5 hours instead of 4, but so what. Incredibly minor irritations - and a small price to pay to see the sport thrive.

 

So no, the very idea of jacking prices up to deliberately suppress demand seems exceedingly ... myopic. 

[Locked]

There is a solution here that would not only be unbelievably awesome but would help with the problem.  

 

Night Golf!... Every single muni should light 9 holes and allow boozy night time golf with buddies.  There's a lot of people who would rather play a 6pm round but can't so go off early clogging things up.  There are a lot of guys that wouldn't play on a saturday if they knew they were going out with their buddies for 9 holes at 9pm.  

 

Why won't the golf gods allow this?  There are 10000 reasons this makes sense and very few that it doesn't.  

[PedronNiall]

2 hours ago, Locked said:

There is a solution here that would not only be unbelievably awesome but would help with the problem.  

 

Night Golf!... Every single muni should light 9 holes and allow boozy night time golf with buddies.  There's a lot of people who would rather play a 6pm round but can't so go off early clogging things up.  There are a lot of guys that wouldn't play on a saturday if they knew they were going out with their buddies for 9 holes at 9pm.  

 

Why won't the golf gods allow this?  There are 10000 reasons this makes sense and very few that it doesn't.  

 

The lighting isn't free to put in, the labor to keep someone at the facilities late isn't free, and the liabilities go up when having people on the course at night even with lighting. It's a lot of extra to take on if increased revenue from doing so isn't a sure thing. 

 

It also means increased traffic on the course, so also have to ensure the extra rounds don't put more pressure on the agronomy than it can handle. It's doable in many cases but isn't going to be an easy sell to the people who'd have to finance it. 

 

To the topic at hand, technically many courses should raise prices to get optimal revenue & profit. That said, while it would ease crowding, it would also push a lot of people out of the game. Unless you feel golf should only be for those with more money than not then you'd likely not think that's what should happen. Might want to consider that optimal price point might even be out of the range you're comfortable paying regularly, OP.

 

 We all get frustrated when it's packed but them's the breaks. Deal with it or step up and play limited slot privates.

[Springsteennut]

Honestly it’s been good for my home course. It has been considered a hidden gem for a long time but lacking first rate amenities. It’s got a nice layout and conditions always were consistently above average.. It has lacked a decent clubhouse for a long time which has always been a black mark. Since Covid and the surge in people playing things have changed dramatically. Conditions have improved even more. There are clubs in our area that are 2/3 times more expensive that aren’t in any better condition. They added a quality matted area to the driving range. Not the cheapy mats you see at some driving ranges.  Improved drainage all over the course. They have been repairing cart paths. Sometime this spring they will be opening a new clubhouse, a halfway house which they have never had and a shed for the carts. The carts were kept in a fenced in area with no cover. So no more drying off the cart on a cold dewy morning. Oh and brand new carts were brought in last year. So yes it’s busier and sometimes we have to deal with some idiots that weren’t out there before and some painfully slow play. Granted we rarely have a round much past 4 hours. I love the improvements they have been able to make because of the extra golfers. The best part I  got my 2024 membership rates the other day. The price is the same to join as the last 2 years but round rate went to $37 from $36 so I will have to explain that increase to the wife.

[bcjim]

Can we all take a moment to thank pickleball? Its frightening to think how much worse it could be without PB soaking up so many leisure hours.

 

 

[Soloman1]

golf in nebraska is not the same as the rest of the world.

these are public golf course prices. come on down and play 2-3 times per week.

you can enjoy a $20 cheeseburger after the round. $22 with tax + tip.

or get on the waiting list to cough up some real money for a private club.

🙂

 

 

 

 

Edited March 9 by Soloman1

[Mikey_HACKilroy]

It varies here, but we have a lot of courses to choose from so I am usually able to zero in on the best times for various courses to walk in without a tee time. On the weekends, I'd have to show up wicked early if I don't want to wait, but I've almost never booked a time.

Heck, they don't let you book some courses as a single around here; which I think is incredibly stupid. Yet, at least even then when you show up they'll work really hard to get you in somewhere.

 

Fortunately for me, I get out of work at around 3PM which works really well to beat most of the after-work crowd to the course as well as the afternoon traffic. 😄 

[toddbournes]

21 hours ago, VNutz said:

Have courses by you not raised rates? Nearly every course I play is considerably more than it was previously. So they tried said increase and nobody blinked. Now we've got full courses, slower rounds and higher rates.

This is where we’re at around me in middle tn. Prices have close to doubled at most of our local courses in the last couple years and they’re absolutely packed. No more walking on without a tee time ever in evenings or weekend days. I get it that it’s not this way everywhere and it has its good points for the courses and such but it can be very frustrating for someone like myself who has been around to see the pre Covid days. 

[AzRoger]

7 hours ago, Soloman1 said:

golf in nebraska is not the same as the rest of the world.

these are public golf course prices. come on down and play 2-3 times per week.

you can enjoy a $20 cheeseburger after the round. $22 with tax + tip.

or get on the waiting list to cough up some real money for a private club.

🙂

 

 

 

 

The worst part is the prices listed above at the lower end of the range are probably middle to late afternoon tee times with little to no chance to finish 18.

Edited March 9 by AzRoger

[Tumadre1337]

Muni’s get pretty busy here in NC, that pushed me into joining a club with 36 holes available. 

[aenemated]

On 3/8/2024 at 12:42 PM, bobfoster said:

I'm an older, responsible adult.

 

Well, why would you wanna be that? 😄

[SurfDuffer]

On 3/8/2024 at 1:47 PM, VNutz said:

Have courses by you not raised rates? Nearly every course I play is considerably more than it was previously. So they tried said increase and nobody blinked. Now we've got full courses, slower rounds and higher rates.

 

I was on the fence this year about continuing my membership but ultimately I renewed.  Money isn't the issue.    Its been the full courses and slow play since Covid that has made me steadily play less and less.  For 15 years I was used to showing up to the course after work or in the afternoon on the weekends and going right out and not suffering behind the Slowskeys.  Since Covid the courses have been jammed and I just am not interested in playing behind slow play......I'd rather go to the dentist.

[Maine Golfer]

My trick is the early morning rounds, during busy times. Or sunset. You play hard on each end of the day

[vbb]

I am pretty sure that everyone posting in this thread was into golf before the pandemic boom, and everyone has had to adjust to more crowds and harder-to-get tee times.  That said, the solutions have always been about the same--you have to pay for exclusivity, and the price adjusts with demand.  The most "elite" course in my area is one of those where they don't even have tee times because they keep the membership so low, but in exchange it costs a LOT to join.  Meanwhile, one of the lower end but fun local munis that I used to frequent is practically overrun and it isn't uncommon to see tee boxes stacked 2-3 groups deep.  

The golf OP seeks is out there, but he has to pay for it.

[SurfDuffer]

5 hours ago, Maine Golfer said:

My trick is the early morning rounds, during busy times. Or sunset. You play hard on each end of the day

I've always been the 5:30-dark:30 guy during the week and after 3 on the weekends.  That strategy is no longer what it used to be.

[Port and Starboard]

On 3/8/2024 at 11:03 AM, alarson said:

Seems there is always talk, or even concern, about the popularity of golf.  (see the answer to pickleball thread as an example)  My question is... Why?!

 

Our courses in Nebraska are absolutely slammed with people.  Private courses, muni courses, public courses are all full all the time.

This seems to be a regular topic in conversation amongst golfers in this area.  There is a LOT of younger golfers filling the courses in the middle of the afternoon during the week (in addition to the nights and weekends crowd).  Who knows if these guys are unemployed, "working from home", retired at age 30, taking the day off, college or older high school kids playing in between classes... regardless of the "how", they are there.

I personally feel courses should raise daily green fees to thin out the crowds a bit.  In theory, your bottom line is similar, the course takes less of a beating, and the members / regular golfers are happier.  Our largest and busiest city course has done just the opposite.  Their daily green fees are actually DOWN nearly 50% from 10 years ago, yet memberships are up significantly.  Seemingly encouraging the "problem"

 

I guess I miss the days of rolling into one of our courses (private CC or public course) without a tee time and playing a 3 hr round.

 

Golf should be more accessible not the opposite.

 

Tough s*** with your snobbish & bipolar approach to the game.

 

It seems to me that you can't wait to tee off,  and then whine because your not back home in 3 hours.