Tiger Woods Injured in Car Crash (Threads Merged here)

tigerd · November 30, 2009

I have to admit guys i thought this kind of gutter press was only produced by the tabloids in UK, ie the SUN, DAILY STAR etc, but they way most if not all the press in the USA are stirring this is unbelieveable.

The speculation this has wipped up outweighs the frenzy that developed in the UK when David Beckham was alledged to have an affair with an employee of his mgmt company Rebecca Loos.

Of course nothing was ever proven, i bet this will be the same with Tiger, but the "other" person milked it for many a year and made quite a bit of money from doing so. In fact this person Rachel reminds me quite a lot, both in appearance and demeanour. of Rebecca Loos

I think everyone should take a deep breath and wait to see how it pans out.

In my opinion IMG are seeing the damage this has caused, and the potential loss of revenue, and Tigers gonna have to come out and say something more than he has said already

hogan64 · November 30, 2009

[quote name='buckman821' post='2094127' date='Nov 30 2009, 07:04 PM'][quote name='hogan64' post='2094120' date='Nov 30 2009, 08:02 PM']I am amazed at the number of perfect human beings that have posted a reply to this fiasco. I've been ignoring this whole thing until I turned on the TV tonight. Good god, are we really that starved for news? Seriously, don't we have more important things to focus on these days? Do you really need to know what is going on in TW's personal life? Is it any of your business? You can't be that shocked to find out he's a human being, with the same kind of problems that everyone here deals with to one degree or another. Please don't give me the role model BS, that doesn't fly with me. Do you really buy a brand of razor because a famous golfer supposedly uses that brand? TW has done more for kids and charity than all of the members of this community combined. Don't mistake this for a TW love fest, but really, some of the posters here need to find something more constructive to focus their energy on. Including me. :wacko: [/quote]

Get over yourself. Nobody here is suggesting that we are perfect. We are golf fans we want to know what is shaking the house of the number one golfer in the world. I don't think theres anything wrong or unexpected about that.
[/quote]
Get over myself? That's the whole point of my post. Have you read any other posts, or just mine? Thank you for your life changing advice, I am now over myself.

OnFire · November 30, 2009

All I can say is, at least his mistress isn't a dude...lol. :cheesy:

dpark · November 30, 2009

[quote name='bscinstnct' post='2094125' date='Nov 30 2009, 05:03 PM'][quote name='dpark' post='2094115' date='Nov 30 2009, 07:58 PM'][quote name='bscinstnct' post='2094063' date='Nov 30 2009, 04:35 PM'][quote name='TheDarkOne' post='2094021' date='Nov 30 2009, 07:13 PM']Perhaps the saddest thing I have seen in the over 30 pages of this thread, is the absolute abandonment of Woods by his fans. Look through the first ten pages or so of this thread and look how many people poured out to show support and love for this man, and express their best wishes. 20 pages later look where we are. Not even the most die hard Tiger Woods fan is buying the story he has put out, and several have expressed heart break and expressed they are now done with him. At first I like many others thought that this would blow over in a few days, now I'm not so sure. This act along with his tirades, the most recent at the Australian Masters where he threw a club into a group of people and sneered at them, might be the turning point where the love is lost. If any of the young charismatic players or a sentimental favorite like Mickleson get hot at the beginning of 2010, don't be shocked to see Woods become this decades bad guy. Woods has always played one part, the super hero that everyone loved and looked up to. I'm not so sure that will be as easy to reprise now, especially not knowing what is coming next in this crazy saga. It will be interesting how he handles the fans, especially when some yells, "You ruined Thanksgiving" after he tees off instead of the customary "get in the hole."[/quote]

I doubt there are as many "fair weather" Tiger fans out there as you may think.

Tiger brought a lot of people into the game.

A fan, a true fan, sticks with his team or his player.
[/quote]

There is a great quote from Sun Tzu: "Your strength will become your weakness".

Tiger's personna and arrogant behaviors in dealing with the sports press will not work on TMZ and the other celebrity rags. Everyone in sports is afraid of pissing off Tiger so they are nice to him an accept whatever "interview crumbs" he tosses their way. It won't work that way with the celebrity rags. They will continue to dig and will not stop and they will find whatever is they are looking for.

Tiger's inability to have an open/honest discussion about anything (while on camera) is well known. He does it so he doesn't piss anyone off (potential endorsement deals) or alienate fans. But that same approach won't work in this situation but he (and his team) are in denial about it. The "machine" won't stop until they find some serious dirt on Tiger now. Its almost a challenge to them and there are a lot of them out there. I liken them to computer hackers. They do it for the sport/fun of it. And while a lot of them probably didn't care about Tiger before last Thursday, they do now. [b]Someone is going to find something, its only a matter of time...[/b]

[/quote]

You are assuming that there is "something" to find.

I doubt that there is.

Other than being one of the most charitable individuals in history. I don't think that this would be considered "serious dirt".
It is also pretty well known.

Okay, I am done.
[/quote]

Well, given that this past weekend was Thanksgiving, there was lots of family around. NOT ONE WOMAN in my entire family believed the story. Every one of them (married and single) immediately said that something "really bad" had to have gone down for a husband to be driving out of his house at 230 in the morning, and they weren't talking about a leaky faucet.

HeadonaStick · November 30, 2009

[quote name='elrey23' post='2094092' date='Nov 30 2009, 07:50 PM'][quote name='HeadonaStick' post='2094026' date='Nov 30 2009, 06:16 PM'][quote name='elrey23' post='2093993' date='Nov 30 2009, 07:03 PM'][quote name='HeadonaStick' post='2093895' date='Nov 30 2009, 05:06 PM'][quote name='King Kobra' post='2093884' date='Nov 30 2009, 05:57 PM'][quote name='HeadonaStick' post='2093837' date='Nov 30 2009, 05:27 PM']FHP was on the scene and took over the investigation. They would have been able to request blood or other tests if they had been warranted.

I love the way so many people in this thread are better police officer than the police officers.[/quote]

You are absolutely right about the Florida Highway Patrol and it looks like they are going to get their warrant to look at his medical records based on news coming out. I'm sure it won't be hard to get a warrant for those medical records since he destroyed public property (fire hydrant) and had an accident in the right-of-way, which is of course public property as well.

That's of course assuming that the streets of Isleworth have been dedicated to the governing municipality. If they have not been dedicated and the fire hydrant and right-of-way belong to the Isleworth HOA, then he still has destroyed private property and had an accident on someone else's property making it very easy in my opinion for the Florida Highway Patrol to get a warrant for medical records, neighboring property surveillance cameras, or anything else they see fit to continue their investigation.

I would hate to see a surveillance camera video that shows Elin doing something other than what Tiger has promised she was doing.

Either way, I pay the taxes via the toll booths every time I drive on the money sucking interstate highways of Florida and as a part time tax payer I would like to see an investigation because heavens knows they would investigate me if I did it.
[/quote]
[b]I don't think they are going to get a look at any blood tests. That isn't what they were requesting. And the FHP would still have to demonstrate reasonable cause for a judge to issue a warrant for any items seized by the FHP.
[/b]
I also wonder if you or I would still be under investigation. I suspect (although I will never know) that you and I would simply have been issued a ticket for reckless driving and our insurance companies would be billed for the hydrant and we'd already be on our way. I just don't see the State Patrol putting this much effort into a fender bender. Whatever else is going on, to the FHP this is a trivial accident made larger by the fame of Tiger Woods.

As a full time tax payer, I'd like to see the FHP drop this, issue a ticket and move on. They have bigger issues than a crash where nobody wants to press charges and where the party can and will pay to repair any damage.
[/quote]

From the quote I saw that the FHP spokesperson made they don't need a warrant to gain access to the blood drawn at the hospital.
[/quote]
I am certain this is not accurate. The police need a warrant to get anything at the hospital. They can request the hospital preserve the sample and seal it with evidence tape, but they may not take it nor use it without a warrant.

I also believe that if a warrant is issued for Tiger's medical records and a judge grants the warrant in an attempt to gather evidence in a DV case, they can't use the blood sample for anything else except to gain knowledge of the DV case.
[/quote]

There's so much information, most of it questionable, floating around about this case. Just did a little reading on CNN.com and what I found is that the FHP could possibly subpoena the blood sample.
[/quote]

I am not a lawyer.

That said, a subpoena is normally issued by a judge of the court that is presiding over a case and it is normally to present yourself or evidence to the court or grand jury. I don't think the FHP can issue a subpoena, I think it would have to be a judge but in any case the standard of probable cause is still in force. That is protected by the 4th Amendment protection against unreasonable search and seizure.

Bellyhungry · November 30, 2009

[quote name='dpark' post='2094165' date='Nov 30 2009, 08:19 PM'][quote name='bscinstnct' post='2094125' date='Nov 30 2009, 05:03 PM'][quote name='dpark' post='2094115' date='Nov 30 2009, 07:58 PM'][quote name='bscinstnct' post='2094063' date='Nov 30 2009, 04:35 PM'][quote name='TheDarkOne' post='2094021' date='Nov 30 2009, 07:13 PM']Perhaps the saddest thing I have seen in the over 30 pages of this thread, is the absolute abandonment of Woods by his fans. Look through the first ten pages or so of this thread and look how many people poured out to show support and love for this man, and express their best wishes. 20 pages later look where we are. Not even the most die hard Tiger Woods fan is buying the story he has put out, and several have expressed heart break and expressed they are now done with him. At first I like many others thought that this would blow over in a few days, now I'm not so sure. This act along with his tirades, the most recent at the Australian Masters where he threw a club into a group of people and sneered at them, might be the turning point where the love is lost. If any of the young charismatic players or a sentimental favorite like Mickleson get hot at the beginning of 2010, don't be shocked to see Woods become this decades bad guy. Woods has always played one part, the super hero that everyone loved and looked up to. I'm not so sure that will be as easy to reprise now, especially not knowing what is coming next in this crazy saga. It will be interesting how he handles the fans, especially when some yells, "You ruined Thanksgiving" after he tees off instead of the customary "get in the hole."[/quote]

I doubt there are as many "fair weather" Tiger fans out there as you may think.

Tiger brought a lot of people into the game.

A fan, a true fan, sticks with his team or his player.
[/quote]

There is a great quote from Sun Tzu: "Your strength will become your weakness".

Tiger's personna and arrogant behaviors in dealing with the sports press will not work on TMZ and the other celebrity rags. Everyone in sports is afraid of pissing off Tiger so they are nice to him an accept whatever "interview crumbs" he tosses their way. It won't work that way with the celebrity rags. They will continue to dig and will not stop and they will find whatever is they are looking for.

Tiger's inability to have an open/honest discussion about anything (while on camera) is well known. He does it so he doesn't piss anyone off (potential endorsement deals) or alienate fans. But that same approach won't work in this situation but he (and his team) are in denial about it. The "machine" won't stop until they find some serious dirt on Tiger now. Its almost a challenge to them and there are a lot of them out there. I liken them to computer hackers. They do it for the sport/fun of it. And while a lot of them probably didn't care about Tiger before last Thursday, they do now. [b]Someone is going to find something, its only a matter of time...[/b]

[/quote]

You are assuming that there is "something" to find.

I doubt that there is.

Other than being one of the most charitable individuals in history. I don't think that this would be considered "serious dirt".
It is also pretty well known.

Okay, I am done.
[/quote]

Well, given that this past weekend was Thanksgiving, there was lots of family around. NOT ONE WOMAN in my entire family believed the story. Every one of them (married and single) immediately said that something "really bad" had to have gone down for a husband to be driving out of his house at 230 in the morning, and they weren't talking about a leaky faucet.
[/quote]

OK...It is women's responsibility to think they are too fat, and to think all men are lying bass-turds who cheat on their spouses.

They probably all love girlie-looking vampires too...:-)

elrey23 · November 30, 2009

[quote name='HeadonaStick' post='2094168' date='Nov 30 2009, 07:24 PM'][quote name='elrey23' post='2094092' date='Nov 30 2009, 07:50 PM'][quote name='HeadonaStick' post='2094026' date='Nov 30 2009, 06:16 PM'][quote name='elrey23' post='2093993' date='Nov 30 2009, 07:03 PM'][quote name='HeadonaStick' post='2093895' date='Nov 30 2009, 05:06 PM'][quote name='King Kobra' post='2093884' date='Nov 30 2009, 05:57 PM'][quote name='HeadonaStick' post='2093837' date='Nov 30 2009, 05:27 PM']FHP was on the scene and took over the investigation. They would have been able to request blood or other tests if they had been warranted.

I love the way so many people in this thread are better police officer than the police officers.[/quote]

You are absolutely right about the Florida Highway Patrol and it looks like they are going to get their warrant to look at his medical records based on news coming out. I'm sure it won't be hard to get a warrant for those medical records since he destroyed public property (fire hydrant) and had an accident in the right-of-way, which is of course public property as well.

That's of course assuming that the streets of Isleworth have been dedicated to the governing municipality. If they have not been dedicated and the fire hydrant and right-of-way belong to the Isleworth HOA, then he still has destroyed private property and had an accident on someone else's property making it very easy in my opinion for the Florida Highway Patrol to get a warrant for medical records, neighboring property surveillance cameras, or anything else they see fit to continue their investigation.

I would hate to see a surveillance camera video that shows Elin doing something other than what Tiger has promised she was doing.

Either way, I pay the taxes via the toll booths every time I drive on the money sucking interstate highways of Florida and as a part time tax payer I would like to see an investigation because heavens knows they would investigate me if I did it.
[/quote]
[b]I don't think they are going to get a look at any blood tests. That isn't what they were requesting. And the FHP would still have to demonstrate reasonable cause for a judge to issue a warrant for any items seized by the FHP.
[/b]
I also wonder if you or I would still be under investigation. I suspect (although I will never know) that you and I would simply have been issued a ticket for reckless driving and our insurance companies would be billed for the hydrant and we'd already be on our way. I just don't see the State Patrol putting this much effort into a fender bender. Whatever else is going on, to the FHP this is a trivial accident made larger by the fame of Tiger Woods.

As a full time tax payer, I'd like to see the FHP drop this, issue a ticket and move on. They have bigger issues than a crash where nobody wants to press charges and where the party can and will pay to repair any damage.
[/quote]

From the quote I saw that the FHP spokesperson made they don't need a warrant to gain access to the blood drawn at the hospital.
[/quote]
I am certain this is not accurate. The police need a warrant to get anything at the hospital. They can request the hospital preserve the sample and seal it with evidence tape, but they may not take it nor use it without a warrant.

I also believe that if a warrant is issued for Tiger's medical records and a judge grants the warrant in an attempt to gather evidence in a DV case, they can't use the blood sample for anything else except to gain knowledge of the DV case.
[/quote]

There's so much information, most of it questionable, floating around about this case. Just did a little reading on CNN.com and what I found is that the FHP could possibly subpoena the blood sample.
[/quote]

I am not a lawyer.

That said, a subpoena is normally issued by a judge of the court that is presiding over a case and it is normally to present yourself or evidence to the court or grand jury. I don't think the FHP can issue a subpoena, I think it would have to be a judge but in any case the standard of probable cause is still in force. That is protected by the 4th Amendment protection against unreasonable search and seizure.

[/quote]

Correct, but they would have to petition a judge for the subpoena so it starts with the FHP. A judge isn't just going to give them the blood without them asking for it first.

beekaybee555 · November 30, 2009

I don't know if anyone said it yet since 500 posts have been made since I last replied to it, but Tiger reminds me of a bad movie I saw a efw months back....a super hero who needs an image makeover and no matter what he says or does, it never comes out the right way

see......."Hancock"

Smack Daddy · November 30, 2009

[quote name='Bellyhungry' post='2094171' date='Nov 30 2009, 08:25 PM']OK...It is women's responsibility to think they are too fat, and to think all men are lying bass-turds who cheat on their spouses.

They probably all love girlie-looking vampires too...:-)[/quote]

And they see ninjas everywhere too. :ninja: :ninja: :ninja: :ninja:

cavemeister · November 30, 2009

wanda sykes does Tiger right! This is funny.
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttZSjajdRd8"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttZSjajdRd8[/url]

bobmarley · November 30, 2009

[quote name='buckman821' post='2094127' date='Nov 30 2009, 03:04 PM']Get over yourself. Nobody here is suggesting that we are perfect. We are golf fans we want to know what is shaking the house of the number one golfer in the world. I don't think theres anything wrong or unexpected about that.[/quote]

Haha. It's people like you that feed tabloid media. It's past the point of being about golf, alot of you want to know if he cheated or not which is a pretty personal matter and has nothing to do with golf.

Now please, "get over yourself" and stop thinking he or his family owes you any sort of explanation.

I gotta admit though, It's fun to read all of the conspiracy theories and speculation you folks can make up. :lol:

hoganfan924 · November 30, 2009

[quote name='HeadonaStick' post='2094168' date='Nov 30 2009, 08:24 PM'][quote name='elrey23' post='2094092' date='Nov 30 2009, 07:50 PM'][quote name='HeadonaStick' post='2094026' date='Nov 30 2009, 06:16 PM'][quote name='elrey23' post='2093993' date='Nov 30 2009, 07:03 PM'][quote name='HeadonaStick' post='2093895' date='Nov 30 2009, 05:06 PM'][quote name='King Kobra' post='2093884' date='Nov 30 2009, 05:57 PM'][quote name='HeadonaStick' post='2093837' date='Nov 30 2009, 05:27 PM']FHP was on the scene and took over the investigation. They would have been able to request blood or other tests if they had been warranted.

I love the way so many people in this thread are better police officer than the police officers.[/quote]

You are absolutely right about the Florida Highway Patrol and it looks like they are going to get their warrant to look at his medical records based on news coming out. I'm sure it won't be hard to get a warrant for those medical records since he destroyed public property (fire hydrant) and had an accident in the right-of-way, which is of course public property as well.

That's of course assuming that the streets of Isleworth have been dedicated to the governing municipality. If they have not been dedicated and the fire hydrant and right-of-way belong to the Isleworth HOA, then he still has destroyed private property and had an accident on someone else's property making it very easy in my opinion for the Florida Highway Patrol to get a warrant for medical records, neighboring property surveillance cameras, or anything else they see fit to continue their investigation.

I would hate to see a surveillance camera video that shows Elin doing something other than what Tiger has promised she was doing.

Either way, I pay the taxes via the toll booths every time I drive on the money sucking interstate highways of Florida and as a part time tax payer I would like to see an investigation because heavens knows they would investigate me if I did it.
[/quote]
[b]I don't think they are going to get a look at any blood tests. That isn't what they were requesting. And the FHP would still have to demonstrate reasonable cause for a judge to issue a warrant for any items seized by the FHP.
[/b]
I also wonder if you or I would still be under investigation. I suspect (although I will never know) that you and I would simply have been issued a ticket for reckless driving and our insurance companies would be billed for the hydrant and we'd already be on our way. I just don't see the State Patrol putting this much effort into a fender bender. Whatever else is going on, to the FHP this is a trivial accident made larger by the fame of Tiger Woods.

As a full time tax payer, I'd like to see the FHP drop this, issue a ticket and move on. They have bigger issues than a crash where nobody wants to press charges and where the party can and will pay to repair any damage.
[/quote]

From the quote I saw that the FHP spokesperson made they don't need a warrant to gain access to the blood drawn at the hospital.
[/quote]
I am certain this is not accurate. The police need a warrant to get anything at the hospital. They can request the hospital preserve the sample and seal it with evidence tape, but they may not take it nor use it without a warrant.

I also believe that if a warrant is issued for Tiger's medical records and a judge grants the warrant in an attempt to gather evidence in a DV case, they can't use the blood sample for anything else except to gain knowledge of the DV case.
[/quote]

There's so much information, most of it questionable, floating around about this case. Just did a little reading on CNN.com and what I found is that the FHP could possibly subpoena the blood sample.
[/quote]

I am not a lawyer.

That said, a subpoena is normally issued by a judge of the court that is presiding over a case and it is normally to present yourself or evidence to the court or grand jury. I don't think the FHP can issue a subpoena, I think it would have to be a judge but in any case the standard of probable cause is still in force. That is protected by the 4th Amendment protection against unreasonable search and seizure.
[/quote]

The 4th amendment was eviscerated long ago when the Supreme Court of the US held that sobriety checkpoints were legal, because the "greater good" outweighed the "minor infringement" of civil rights that they cause. Buh bye, civil rights!

So the Police can stop every single car on any given stretch of road to check drivers for sobriety, but some people in this thread have argued that they don't have sufficient cause to get the blood test records of a guy who ran over a hydrant and hit a tree at 2:20am in his own neighborhood while driving in his bare feet. Yea, that makes sense.

Bubbalongball · November 30, 2009

Just trying to catch up here on this crazy situation, I read most of the pages and remember reading alot about how we all found it quite interesting that people and media were saying that Elin smashed out the rear window and dragged him out, No one would believe that as there would be alot of glass and alot of cuts on arms and limbs and such, but as i ate supper tonight and watched on CTV news it showed great pics of the suv and the window on the drivers side for the back seat was broken out and that would go with there story that ELin could have easily smashed out and reached in and unlocked the drivers door wihout getting any cuts as most all new vehicles even my 2003 GM model when you put it in drive the doors automatically lock until you put it in park and shut the engine off, I apologize if this has been brought up, I guess there are a ton of what if's and my opinion has changed a bit and i think all that happened was they argued tiger got pissed off as he has a wicked temper that would make him want to leave or bolt from the confrontation (im the same) and when tiger pulled out and went around the loop he saw ELin as he was looking to the left and most drivers arms turn the wheel in the direction in they are going and it was to late hit a fire hydran and tree and elin smashed the window out behind him and unlocked the door and helped pull him out and the rest is history,,

It could have happened that way...maybe... :blush:

Sorry for being long winded

OnFire · November 30, 2009

[quote name='midasmulligan2000' post='2094181' date='Nov 30 2009, 07:31 PM']Are we actually about to hit 40 pages ... in a thread about Tiger[i] hitting a fire hydrand with an SUV[/i]?

This is pretty mjuch the definition of "OMFG" ... yes?[/quote]

My comp. says we're at 79 pages right now. :clapping:

HeadonaStick · November 30, 2009

[quote name='elrey23' post='2094179' date='Nov 30 2009, 08:30 PM'][quote name='HeadonaStick' post='2094168' date='Nov 30 2009, 07:24 PM'][quote name='elrey23' post='2094092' date='Nov 30 2009, 07:50 PM'][quote name='HeadonaStick' post='2094026' date='Nov 30 2009, 06:16 PM'][quote name='elrey23' post='2093993' date='Nov 30 2009, 07:03 PM'][quote name='HeadonaStick' post='2093895' date='Nov 30 2009, 05:06 PM'][quote name='King Kobra' post='2093884' date='Nov 30 2009, 05:57 PM'][quote name='HeadonaStick' post='2093837' date='Nov 30 2009, 05:27 PM']FHP was on the scene and took over the investigation. They would have been able to request blood or other tests if they had been warranted.

I love the way so many people in this thread are better police officer than the police officers.[/quote]

You are absolutely right about the Florida Highway Patrol and it looks like they are going to get their warrant to look at his medical records based on news coming out. I'm sure it won't be hard to get a warrant for those medical records since he destroyed public property (fire hydrant) and had an accident in the right-of-way, which is of course public property as well.

That's of course assuming that the streets of Isleworth have been dedicated to the governing municipality. If they have not been dedicated and the fire hydrant and right-of-way belong to the Isleworth HOA, then he still has destroyed private property and had an accident on someone else's property making it very easy in my opinion for the Florida Highway Patrol to get a warrant for medical records, neighboring property surveillance cameras, or anything else they see fit to continue their investigation.

I would hate to see a surveillance camera video that shows Elin doing something other than what Tiger has promised she was doing.

Either way, I pay the taxes via the toll booths every time I drive on the money sucking interstate highways of Florida and as a part time tax payer I would like to see an investigation because heavens knows they would investigate me if I did it.
[/quote]
[b]I don't think they are going to get a look at any blood tests. That isn't what they were requesting. And the FHP would still have to demonstrate reasonable cause for a judge to issue a warrant for any items seized by the FHP.
[/b]
I also wonder if you or I would still be under investigation. I suspect (although I will never know) that you and I would simply have been issued a ticket for reckless driving and our insurance companies would be billed for the hydrant and we'd already be on our way. I just don't see the State Patrol putting this much effort into a fender bender. Whatever else is going on, to the FHP this is a trivial accident made larger by the fame of Tiger Woods.

As a full time tax payer, I'd like to see the FHP drop this, issue a ticket and move on. They have bigger issues than a crash where nobody wants to press charges and where the party can and will pay to repair any damage.
[/quote]

From the quote I saw that the FHP spokesperson made they don't need a warrant to gain access to the blood drawn at the hospital.
[/quote]
I am certain this is not accurate. The police need a warrant to get anything at the hospital. They can request the hospital preserve the sample and seal it with evidence tape, but they may not take it nor use it without a warrant.

I also believe that if a warrant is issued for Tiger's medical records and a judge grants the warrant in an attempt to gather evidence in a DV case, they can't use the blood sample for anything else except to gain knowledge of the DV case.
[/quote]

There's so much information, most of it questionable, floating around about this case. Just did a little reading on CNN.com and what I found is that the FHP could possibly subpoena the blood sample.
[/quote]

I am not a lawyer.

That said, a subpoena is normally issued by a judge of the court that is presiding over a case and it is normally to present yourself or evidence to the court or grand jury. I don't think the FHP can issue a subpoena, I think it would have to be a judge but in any case the standard of probable cause is still in force. That is protected by the 4th Amendment protection against unreasonable search and seizure.

[/quote]

Correct, but they would have to petition a judge for the subpoena so it starts with the FHP. A judge isn't just going to give them the blood without them asking for it first.
[/quote]
I'm not sure anymore if we are discussing semantics or what.

My point was (and remains) that if they ask for a warrant to collect evidence of domestic violence, the blood would not be included nor would notes about the blood in the records be admissible unless it was specific to the DV case. Warrants are very specific - they do not allow the police to go on a fishing expedition.

A subpoena would be no different.

If the FHP wants the blood they're going to have to convince a judge there is probable cause to collect the blood, be it a warrant or a subpoena. Considering that the FHP has gone on record saying there was no evidence of impairment, that will be a tough sell indeed.

elrey23 · November 30, 2009

[quote name='midasmulligan2000' post='2094181' date='Nov 30 2009, 07:31 PM']Are we actually about to hit 40 pages ... in a thread about Tiger[i] hitting a fire hydrand with an SUV[/i]?

This is pretty mjuch the definition of "OMFG" ... yes?[/quote]

Too "trailer park" for you? :lol:

[quote name='HeadonaStick' post='2094210' date='Nov 30 2009, 07:41 PM'][quote name='elrey23' post='2094179' date='Nov 30 2009, 08:30 PM'][quote name='HeadonaStick' post='2094168' date='Nov 30 2009, 07:24 PM'][quote name='elrey23' post='2094092' date='Nov 30 2009, 07:50 PM'][quote name='HeadonaStick' post='2094026' date='Nov 30 2009, 06:16 PM'][quote name='elrey23' post='2093993' date='Nov 30 2009, 07:03 PM'][quote name='HeadonaStick' post='2093895' date='Nov 30 2009, 05:06 PM'][quote name='King Kobra' post='2093884' date='Nov 30 2009, 05:57 PM'][quote name='HeadonaStick' post='2093837' date='Nov 30 2009, 05:27 PM']FHP was on the scene and took over the investigation. They would have been able to request blood or other tests if they had been warranted.

I love the way so many people in this thread are better police officer than the police officers.[/quote]

You are absolutely right about the Florida Highway Patrol and it looks like they are going to get their warrant to look at his medical records based on news coming out. I'm sure it won't be hard to get a warrant for those medical records since he destroyed public property (fire hydrant) and had an accident in the right-of-way, which is of course public property as well.

That's of course assuming that the streets of Isleworth have been dedicated to the governing municipality. If they have not been dedicated and the fire hydrant and right-of-way belong to the Isleworth HOA, then he still has destroyed private property and had an accident on someone else's property making it very easy in my opinion for the Florida Highway Patrol to get a warrant for medical records, neighboring property surveillance cameras, or anything else they see fit to continue their investigation.

I would hate to see a surveillance camera video that shows Elin doing something other than what Tiger has promised she was doing.

Either way, I pay the taxes via the toll booths every time I drive on the money sucking interstate highways of Florida and as a part time tax payer I would like to see an investigation because heavens knows they would investigate me if I did it.
[/quote]
[b]I don't think they are going to get a look at any blood tests. That isn't what they were requesting. And the FHP would still have to demonstrate reasonable cause for a judge to issue a warrant for any items seized by the FHP.
[/b]
I also wonder if you or I would still be under investigation. I suspect (although I will never know) that you and I would simply have been issued a ticket for reckless driving and our insurance companies would be billed for the hydrant and we'd already be on our way. I just don't see the State Patrol putting this much effort into a fender bender. Whatever else is going on, to the FHP this is a trivial accident made larger by the fame of Tiger Woods.

As a full time tax payer, I'd like to see the FHP drop this, issue a ticket and move on. They have bigger issues than a crash where nobody wants to press charges and where the party can and will pay to repair any damage.
[/quote]

From the quote I saw that the FHP spokesperson made they don't need a warrant to gain access to the blood drawn at the hospital.
[/quote]
I am certain this is not accurate. The police need a warrant to get anything at the hospital. They can request the hospital preserve the sample and seal it with evidence tape, but they may not take it nor use it without a warrant.

I also believe that if a warrant is issued for Tiger's medical records and a judge grants the warrant in an attempt to gather evidence in a DV case, they can't use the blood sample for anything else except to gain knowledge of the DV case.
[/quote]

There's so much information, most of it questionable, floating around about this case. Just did a little reading on CNN.com and what I found is that the FHP could possibly subpoena the blood sample.
[/quote]

I am not a lawyer.

That said, a subpoena is normally issued by a judge of the court that is presiding over a case and it is normally to present yourself or evidence to the court or grand jury. I don't think the FHP can issue a subpoena, I think it would have to be a judge but in any case the standard of probable cause is still in force. That is protected by the 4th Amendment protection against unreasonable search and seizure.

[/quote]

Correct, but they would have to petition a judge for the subpoena so it starts with the FHP. A judge isn't just going to give them the blood without them asking for it first.
[/quote]
I'm not sure anymore if we are discussing semantics or what.

My point was (and remains) that if they ask for a warrant to collect evidence of domestic violence, the blood would not be included nor would notes about the blood in the records be admissible unless it was specific to the DV case. Warrants are very specific - they do not allow the police to go on a fishing expedition.

A subpoena would be no different.

If the FHP wants the blood they're going to have to convince a judge there is probable cause to collect the blood, be it a warrant or a subpoena. Considering that the [b]FHP has gone on record saying there was no evidence of impairment[/b], that will be a tough sell indeed.
[/quote]

No ALCOHOL impairment. I think they are more concerned with prescription medicine. Yes, I agree with your post BTW

TML · November 30, 2009

[quote name='Dayton' post='2093844' date='Nov 30 2009, 02:31 PM']I never thought I would visit the National Enquirer website, but I did. Shame on me. I'm going to shower now. Good luck to Tiger and his family. No matter what the real story is, it is not good, and they have some tough times ahead of them.[/quote]
The National Enquirer was the one who broke the John Edwards story when no one else would touch it. In her first attempt to deny the story, Rachel denied ever talking with the girl who is one of the sources for the story, and the Enquirer produced a photo of the 2 of them together talking.

Elin was super peeved at Tiger about something. Why the heck else would she throw a golf club at the Escalade?

HeadonaStick · November 30, 2009

[quote name='elrey23' post='2094217' date='Nov 30 2009, 08:45 PM'][quote name='HeadonaStick' post='2094210' date='Nov 30 2009, 07:41 PM'][quote name='elrey23' post='2094179' date='Nov 30 2009, 08:30 PM'][quote name='HeadonaStick' post='2094168' date='Nov 30 2009, 07:24 PM'][quote name='elrey23' post='2094092' date='Nov 30 2009, 07:50 PM'][quote name='HeadonaStick' post='2094026' date='Nov 30 2009, 06:16 PM'][quote name='elrey23' post='2093993' date='Nov 30 2009, 07:03 PM'][quote name='HeadonaStick' post='2093895' date='Nov 30 2009, 05:06 PM'][quote name='King Kobra' post='2093884' date='Nov 30 2009, 05:57 PM'][quote name='HeadonaStick' post='2093837' date='Nov 30 2009, 05:27 PM']FHP was on the scene and took over the investigation. They would have been able to request blood or other tests if they had been warranted.

I love the way so many people in this thread are better police officer than the police officers.[/quote]

You are absolutely right about the Florida Highway Patrol and it looks like they are going to get their warrant to look at his medical records based on news coming out. I'm sure it won't be hard to get a warrant for those medical records since he destroyed public property (fire hydrant) and had an accident in the right-of-way, which is of course public property as well.

That's of course assuming that the streets of Isleworth have been dedicated to the governing municipality. If they have not been dedicated and the fire hydrant and right-of-way belong to the Isleworth HOA, then he still has destroyed private property and had an accident on someone else's property making it very easy in my opinion for the Florida Highway Patrol to get a warrant for medical records, neighboring property surveillance cameras, or anything else they see fit to continue their investigation.

I would hate to see a surveillance camera video that shows Elin doing something other than what Tiger has promised she was doing.

Either way, I pay the taxes via the toll booths every time I drive on the money sucking interstate highways of Florida and as a part time tax payer I would like to see an investigation because heavens knows they would investigate me if I did it.
[/quote]
[b]I don't think they are going to get a look at any blood tests. That isn't what they were requesting. And the FHP would still have to demonstrate reasonable cause for a judge to issue a warrant for any items seized by the FHP.
[/b]
I also wonder if you or I would still be under investigation. I suspect (although I will never know) that you and I would simply have been issued a ticket for reckless driving and our insurance companies would be billed for the hydrant and we'd already be on our way. I just don't see the State Patrol putting this much effort into a fender bender. Whatever else is going on, to the FHP this is a trivial accident made larger by the fame of Tiger Woods.

As a full time tax payer, I'd like to see the FHP drop this, issue a ticket and move on. They have bigger issues than a crash where nobody wants to press charges and where the party can and will pay to repair any damage.
[/quote]

From the quote I saw that the FHP spokesperson made they don't need a warrant to gain access to the blood drawn at the hospital.
[/quote]
I am certain this is not accurate. The police need a warrant to get anything at the hospital. They can request the hospital preserve the sample and seal it with evidence tape, but they may not take it nor use it without a warrant.

I also believe that if a warrant is issued for Tiger's medical records and a judge grants the warrant in an attempt to gather evidence in a DV case, they can't use the blood sample for anything else except to gain knowledge of the DV case.
[/quote]

There's so much information, most of it questionable, floating around about this case. Just did a little reading on CNN.com and what I found is that the FHP could possibly subpoena the blood sample.
[/quote]

I am not a lawyer.

That said, a subpoena is normally issued by a judge of the court that is presiding over a case and it is normally to present yourself or evidence to the court or grand jury. I don't think the FHP can issue a subpoena, I think it would have to be a judge but in any case the standard of probable cause is still in force. That is protected by the 4th Amendment protection against unreasonable search and seizure.

[/quote]

Correct, but they would have to petition a judge for the subpoena so it starts with the FHP. A judge isn't just going to give them the blood without them asking for it first.
[/quote]
I'm not sure anymore if we are discussing semantics or what.

My point was (and remains) that if they ask for a warrant to collect evidence of domestic violence, the blood would not be included nor would notes about the blood in the records be admissible unless it was specific to the DV case. Warrants are very specific - they do not allow the police to go on a fishing expedition.

A subpoena would be no different.

If the FHP wants the blood they're going to have to convince a judge there is probable cause to collect the blood, be it a warrant or a subpoena. Considering that the [b]FHP has gone on record saying there was no evidence of impairment[/b], that will be a tough sell indeed.
[/quote]

No ALCOHOL impairment. I think they are more concerned with prescription medicine. Yes, I agree with your post BTW
[/quote]
Good point. However, the last article I read with statements from the FHP they were interested in looking for evidence of DV. That may have changed. Honestly, I can't keep the rumors separate from the facts anymore.

Eddie · November 30, 2009

Forgive me for not having followed this thread fully, but I don't know, this issue seems to be clear to me.

Tiger and Elin fought, Elin whooped his a**, he left (regardless of why the window smashing happened) and crashed.

So, if I put my conspiracy theory hat on, Elin busting Tiger up would qualify as domestic violence, in which my understanding of the law states that charges would have to be filed by the state, irregardless of Tiger's desire or apprehension to press charges.

So why is Tiger being so quiet and pushing police away? Because if it is clear that Elin beat his a**, (aside from public humiliation), his wife and mother of his kids could be culpable for a crime. So Tiger tries to shut everything down for the sake of keeping his wife, and his family in legal trouble.

I know some of you may read my theory as a fan boy theory, and hell, you may be right.

Then there is the issue of whether he had an adulterous relationship with the other lady. I hear and read the reports, but if we are going to get into a credibility issue, she has 1) a track record of being a homewrecker and 2) vehemently denied having an affair. The second point is obviously debatable because she has no credibility at all to begin with, but trying to imagine the world of Tiger, especially internationally, Tiger travels with a huge entourage. PR, security, friends, etc.. I find it hard to believe that the sheltered team around him wouldn't wave red flags up and down the street on who this girl was, what past scandalous activity she was involved in. I've had a psychotic relationship before, and those driven by all the wrong reasons will do the craziest thing to compromise the situation of the other person. The National Enquirer has hit one huge story in how many years of publication, and now they are an entirely believable and trustworthy entity? Heck, most major publications are not fully trusted, let alone mildly trusted, yet now the national enquirer is the de facto authority on issues? lol.

All that being said, I have no idea whether he had an affair or not.

But I've read a lot of things in the press that bother me, that he has to come out and tell the truth. But about what? About what happened that night? I don't think he has to. To make the public happy and risk incriminating his wife? Imagine how much more Elin would beat him up LOL. About the affair? Hell, I'd love to know the truth but is it really my place to join the mob and demand answers? It's this kind of activity that pushes celebrities and people into deeper holes and make them all the more skeptical and reserved from the public.

Lastly, I've seen some posts by people demanding the truth from Tiger because without them and because they spend their dollars to fill his pockets, that they deserve an answer. I find that logic curious, does your boss deserve to know all the ins and outs of your private life because he/she is the one that provides your well-being? I think it's pretty clear that there are some, not all, Tiger haters that are leveraging this situation to dig at this guy, take a look at all the journalists who have traditionally not had "insider" access to Tiger's world, have become jaded, and are putting up incendiary articles. Or is it people demanding the truth because they use Tiger as a role model for their kids. Tiger has long been thought of as the angelic athlete, but that's a bit silly don't you think? Let's look at the modern day culture of athletes, Phelps: olympic golden boy - smoked weed, Shaq: affable superathlete - having an extramarrital relationship with Arenas' wife, A-Rod: all kinds of weird stuff, Tiger: possibly an affair.... what's the saying? Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me? Was it Barkley that said that athletes shouldn't be role models? My younger cousins are fans of Tiger through watching my appreciation of his performance on the golf course, but that's where it ends. I make it a point that he has a terrible personality and cusses too much.

I have to say, this is an impressive thread! I'll probably stop posting and reading this and getting back to regular wrx programming.

Thanks for indulging my rambling.

JD3 · November 30, 2009

as per the accident, i think we all know pretty much what happened:

- TW got home from a long trip to Australia and China, and probably some media-related stuff in NYC;
- during this time gossip rag publishes story about his alleged infidelity;
- when he gets home hoping to chill out from the trip, his wife confronts him. and keeps after him after not getting the answers she wants. i'm sure she mixed in some "i'm here all alone taking care of 2 kids, while you're out globe trotting, playing golf and having sex with some floozy" stuff;
- TW says "aw screw it, i'm heading out for a ride, can't take your crap any more;"
- not fully concentrating on what he's doing, he smashes into a hydrant and tree;
- wife hears crash and, although she just spent hours chewing him out, of course her primary concern is for his safey;
- seeing him unconscious she breaks open the car windows and helps a dazed TW out of the vehicle.

i'm about 90% certain that much is true.

the only unknown is whether or not he plunked the bimbo in nyc.

i really dont care either.

MAK2525 · November 30, 2009

[quote name='bscinstnct' post='2094125' date='Nov 30 2009, 08:03 PM']Other than being one of the most charitable individuals in history.[/quote]

Sorry, but I cannot let this claim go by without objection!

Yes, Tiger Woods has a charitable foundation and raising money for this and other charities is great! However, to claim that he is [b][i]"one of the most charitable individuals in history"[/i][/b] is a complete overstatement and exaggeration! Hell, Bill Gates has given more money to charity than Tiger Woods has earned! [i]If you want to ammend the statement to "one of the most charitable [b]golfers[/b] in history",[/i] it might hold some water!

Onebulldogs · November 30, 2009

Wow!!! A quiet thanksgiving weekend turns into a drama that has captivated the media.

In my opinion, his legal team is doing a good job of protecting Tiger and Elin legal liability for the crash. Unfortunately, it is turning into a PR nightmare.

BTW - Chevron is going to be upset.

mtsmith · November 30, 2009

[quote name='cavemeister' post='2094192' date='Nov 30 2009, 07:35 PM']wanda sykes does Tiger right! This is funny.
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttZSjajdRd8"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttZSjajdRd8[/url][/quote]

OMG... :cheesy:

EDIT: Removed part of my post. Just watch the vid

Smack Daddy · November 30, 2009

[quote name='jduncanm3' post='2094252' date='Nov 30 2009, 09:01 PM']- when he gets home hoping to chill out from the trip, his wife confronts him. and [b]keeps after him after not getting the answers she wants. [/b][/quote]

I have a new theory!!!!!

Elin confronts Tiger about the rumor.........Tiger hands her a statement prepared by IMG..........Elin kicks his butt.

HeadonaStick · November 30, 2009

[quote name='hoganfan924' post='2094196' date='Nov 30 2009, 08:37 PM'][quote name='HeadonaStick' post='2094168' date='Nov 30 2009, 08:24 PM'][quote name='elrey23' post='2094092' date='Nov 30 2009, 07:50 PM'][quote name='HeadonaStick' post='2094026' date='Nov 30 2009, 06:16 PM'][quote name='elrey23' post='2093993' date='Nov 30 2009, 07:03 PM'][quote name='HeadonaStick' post='2093895' date='Nov 30 2009, 05:06 PM'][quote name='King Kobra' post='2093884' date='Nov 30 2009, 05:57 PM'][quote name='HeadonaStick' post='2093837' date='Nov 30 2009, 05:27 PM']FHP was on the scene and took over the investigation. They would have been able to request blood or other tests if they had been warranted.

I love the way so many people in this thread are better police officer than the police officers.[/quote]

You are absolutely right about the Florida Highway Patrol and it looks like they are going to get their warrant to look at his medical records based on news coming out. I'm sure it won't be hard to get a warrant for those medical records since he destroyed public property (fire hydrant) and had an accident in the right-of-way, which is of course public property as well.

That's of course assuming that the streets of Isleworth have been dedicated to the governing municipality. If they have not been dedicated and the fire hydrant and right-of-way belong to the Isleworth HOA, then he still has destroyed private property and had an accident on someone else's property making it very easy in my opinion for the Florida Highway Patrol to get a warrant for medical records, neighboring property surveillance cameras, or anything else they see fit to continue their investigation.

I would hate to see a surveillance camera video that shows Elin doing something other than what Tiger has promised she was doing.

Either way, I pay the taxes via the toll booths every time I drive on the money sucking interstate highways of Florida and as a part time tax payer I would like to see an investigation because heavens knows they would investigate me if I did it.
[/quote]
[b]I don't think they are going to get a look at any blood tests. That isn't what they were requesting. And the FHP would still have to demonstrate reasonable cause for a judge to issue a warrant for any items seized by the FHP.
[/b]
I also wonder if you or I would still be under investigation. I suspect (although I will never know) that you and I would simply have been issued a ticket for reckless driving and our insurance companies would be billed for the hydrant and we'd already be on our way. I just don't see the State Patrol putting this much effort into a fender bender. Whatever else is going on, to the FHP this is a trivial accident made larger by the fame of Tiger Woods.

As a full time tax payer, I'd like to see the FHP drop this, issue a ticket and move on. They have bigger issues than a crash where nobody wants to press charges and where the party can and will pay to repair any damage.
[/quote]

From the quote I saw that the FHP spokesperson made they don't need a warrant to gain access to the blood drawn at the hospital.
[/quote]
I am certain this is not accurate. The police need a warrant to get anything at the hospital. They can request the hospital preserve the sample and seal it with evidence tape, but they may not take it nor use it without a warrant.

I also believe that if a warrant is issued for Tiger's medical records and a judge grants the warrant in an attempt to gather evidence in a DV case, they can't use the blood sample for anything else except to gain knowledge of the DV case.
[/quote]

There's so much information, most of it questionable, floating around about this case. Just did a little reading on CNN.com and what I found is that the FHP could possibly subpoena the blood sample.
[/quote]

I am not a lawyer.

That said, a subpoena is normally issued by a judge of the court that is presiding over a case and it is normally to present yourself or evidence to the court or grand jury. I don't think the FHP can issue a subpoena, I think it would have to be a judge but in any case the standard of probable cause is still in force. That is protected by the 4th Amendment protection against unreasonable search and seizure.
[/quote]

The 4th amendment was eviscerated long ago when the Supreme Court of the US held that sobriety checkpoints were legal, because the "greater good" outweighed the "minor infringement" of civil rights that they cause. Buh bye, civil rights!
[/quote]

I won't argue this point.

[quote]So the Police can stop every single car on any given stretch of road to check drivers for sobriety, but some people in this thread have argued that they don't have sufficient cause to get the blood test records of a guy who ran over a hydrant and hit a tree at 2:20am in his own neighborhood while driving in his bare feet. Yea, that makes sense.[/quote]
There is plenty of case law to support the need for probable cause in these circumstances, and the police already stated they didn't have it.

[i]"Woods was not given a breath test, nor was his blood or urine tested. [b]Troopers need probable cause that someone is under the influence of alcohol or drugs to demand such tests, and they had none[/b], Montes said. Such probable cause could include finding liquor bottles in a car or smelling alcohol on someone's breath."[/i] (emphasis added)

TimeToFly · November 30, 2009

[quote name='TML' post='2094244' date='Nov 30 2009, 08:56 PM'][quote name='Dayton' post='2093844' date='Nov 30 2009, 02:31 PM'].[/quote]
[b]The National Enquirer was the one who broke the John Edwards story when no one else would touch it. In her first attempt to deny the story, Rachel denied ever talking with the girl who is one of the sources for the story, and the Enquirer produced a photo of the 2 of them together talking.
[/b]
[/quote]

thats a very good point. Rachel has been busted in a lie

bscinstnct · November 30, 2009

[quote name='MAK2525' post='2094254' date='Nov 30 2009, 09:02 PM'][quote name='bscinstnct' post='2094125' date='Nov 30 2009, 08:03 PM']Other than being one of the most charitable individuals in history.[/quote]

Sorry, but I cannot let this claim go by without objection!

Yes, Tiger Woods has a charitable foundation and raising money for this and other charities is great! However, to claim that he is [b][i]"one of the most charitable individuals in history"[/i][/b] is a complete overstatement and exaggeration! Hell, Bill Gates has given more money to charity than Tiger Woods has earned! [i]If you want to ammend the statement to "one of the most charitable [b]golfers[/b] in history",[/i] it might hold some water!
[/quote]

I have to laugh that your objection is not to the pathetic joy people seem to get from this incident but to exactly how
I define the magnitude of Tiger's charity.

Very well then.

Tiger is one of the most charitable individuals in history...
expressed in percentage terms...

ie. imo Tiger is in the top .0000000000001% of all individuals in history who have given to charity.

Falang_Golfer · November 30, 2009

[quote name='TML' post='2094244' date='Nov 30 2009, 08:56 PM']Elin was super peeved at Tiger about something. Why the heck else would she throw a golf club at the Escalade?[/quote]

She was pissed about GM ditching Saab???

TimeToFly · November 30, 2009

LOL, Wanda Sykes: "[i]Big Viking B*tch Banging, Hitting His Car With The Club[/i]", HAHAHA!!!

did this thread disappear for a few seconds then come back? i was in the middle of posting and the entire thread vanished and when i found it again, it went from over 200 people reading it to 50 people reading it....weird

Arafel · November 30, 2009

[quote name='TimeToFly' post='2094324' date='Nov 30 2009, 09:35 PM']did this thread disappear for a few seconds then come back? i was in the middle of posting and the entire thread vanished and when i found it again, it went from over 200 people reading it to 50 people reading it....weird[/quote]

It went away for more than a few seconds. I think it was about ten minutes.