TM Twist Face Rumor

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Comments

  • Njames.cook2014Njames.cook2014 Members Posts: 131
    Wouldn’t surprise me, but would be interesting
  • pinestreetgolfpinestreetgolf Members Posts: 3,360 ✭✭
    I don't totally understand the conforming list. The way I understand the list its fine to play a club that is not on it, so long as you know it will pass (and it so does pass) if inspected. So, its not like they "had" to submit the modified drivers. Not submitting them may be a gamble, but as far as I understand the rules the conforming list a service to pre-check your equipment and anything on it will be presumed valid, but you don't *have* to get something tested to put it in play. You just suffer the consequences if you're wrong.
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  • lawsonmanlawsonman Members Posts: 5,169 ✭✭
    Bye wrote:

    lawsonman wrote:

    Bye wrote:

    asw7576 wrote:


    5 pages .... wow image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />




    Agreed. Looks like a desperate move to keep people talking about him. Might have worked. Personally I would be cringing if I worked for Titleist.




    Why?




    I don't know the details of his deal with Titleist but as a staff player he is representing their company. Promoting their products, not casting doubt or rubbishing their competitors. It may be a cultural thing or it may just be me, but imo it's not very professional.




    True. I guess I've just always had a hard time taking Crossfield serious as a expert on anything. He just comes across as a goofball to me.
    Welcome to where dumb opinions are better than no opinion. :)

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  • rymail00rymail00 Members Posts: 6,704 ✭✭
    edited Feb 13, 2018 #155


    I've had multiple tour m1 and m2 heads before from tour department and they 100% had less buldge and roll. In fact I requested a head with as little as possible.






    Is that what the R1/R2 specs are on the TM tour issue head stickers mean? Does it measure the roll of toe and heel? I've asked a few people, even Will Peoples and he didn't know what the R1/R2 spec meant. The main specs are Loft, Lie, Face Angle, and then the R1/R2 specs
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  •  SwooshLT SwooshLT Members Posts: 6,989 ✭✭
    Lemonde wrote:

    RichieHunt wrote:




    I unfollowed MC on twitter.




    lol that'll show him



    But yeah, unfollowed him on all social media a while ago as well. Every single review was exactly the same.




    I never have been a fan of any reviews from any of the reviewers on YouTube. They seem like good guys, but their reviews are really an exercise in futility. That's why I prefer what The Golf Lab with Liam Mucklow (and Carson Hau) is doing. They measured the exact driver head dimensions, including the exact locations of the CoG and gave the head dimensions on video between the M1 and the M3. They moved the weights all the way up front and all the way back and showed how that changed the CoG. Then they had Mucklow hit a bunch of balls on GEARS with each head and changed the weight locations using the same shaft.



    The reviews Shiels, Crossfield, etc. do are really purely subjective such as how the club looks and feels to them. Even Shiels did one where he goes into how much he hates the name 'Epic.' The only somewhat objective data is the results using a launch monitor, but that's not really the most objective data.



    The Golf Lab's video was largely objective data showing the difference between the CoG's in the M1 vs. the M3, how the CoG changes when they move the weights around and the resulting differences in carry distance and ball speed. As well as how the loft and face angle varies depending where they measure on the face.



    The only thing advantage Shiels/Crossfield type of reviews have is that they can do more reviews because it takes much more work to do it the way the Golf Lab did it. Also, The Golf Lab charges $13 for their video. Hopefully, they adjust the price point on future videos. But, it's a far more informative way to do equipment reviews.













    RH




    You had my interest peaked and then you lost me at $13.






    Very informative however......I've spent more on worse!!!
  • sandysandy ClubWRX Posts: 4,996
    edited Feb 13, 2018 #157
    That would explain why Tiger had his worst driving accuracy day of his career. 17/56. If he had twist face it might have been 18/56
  • WidespreadPanicWidespreadPanic Wizard in the Corner Members Posts: 4,816 ✭✭
    While MC may be out of line and all that, I don't see why TM would have to put anything on the conforming list for heads that have less twistface in them. I wouldn't be surprised at all if some heads have less twist than others.
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  • TollBrosTollBros Overseer of the Test Range Sponsors Posts: 4,844 ✭✭

    TollBros wrote:



    Crossfield is salty about TM not sending him anything, Mark just trying to stir the pot. Twistface really isn't detrimental to a professional. Crossfield always bashes tech and features simply because he likes to pander to the people that watch his videos and hardly understand what to look for in a club.




    We have a winner. Now that doesn't mean there couldn't be non twist face heads at some point. Taylormade is excellent about making Tour specific product for their staffers, but I would think such a thing would require a USGA retest since the actual construction would be altered.






    Well if Tiger keeps hitting his M3 as crappy as he did at Torrey two weeks ago I wouldn’t be surprised at all by a new Tiger “Tour” version popping up. ; )




    They will 100% make anything he wants or needs. It wouldn't surprise me at all if that happened.
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  • Peanut191Peanut191 Members Posts: 1,862 ✭✭
    rymail00 wrote:



    I've had multiple tour m1 and m2 heads before from tour department and they 100% had less buldge and roll. In fact I requested a head with as little as possible.






    Is that what the R1/R2 specs are on the TM tour issue head stickers mean? Does it measure the roll of toe and heel? I've asked a few people, even Will Peoples and he didn't know what the R1/R2 spec meant. The main specs are Loft, Lie, Face Angle, and then the R1/R2 specs




    Good question, never understood what the R1/R2 stood for either. First, I thought it could be a batch number or something, but that doesn’t make much sense, since there is only 2 numbers.
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  • golfnhackgolfnhack Members Posts: 2,521 ✭✭
    Is it co-incidence that MC stands for both Mark Crossfield AND Missed Cut. Explains Crossfield's view perfectly.



    (Sorry if this lame joke has already been posted)
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  • ExoticsGuy13ExoticsGuy13 Members Posts: 637 ClubWRX
    Hot Rod 71 wrote:
    TaylorMade tour players rarely use the same drivers sold at retail. This is nothing new.



    A quick check of the conforming list will reveal the truth.



    Edit: I checked the USGA Conforming List and all of the M3/4 drivers listed have Twist Face. (pp. 1127-1128). The list is dated effective February 12, 2018. In generations past it was common to see several versions of a TM driver (V2, V3, V4, etc.). These were normally the tour heads.



    [url="https://www.usga.org/ConformingGolfClub/ConformingClubList_M.pdf"]https://www.usga.org...gClubList_M.pdf[/url]


    The USGA list says that they are all stamped with “TWIST FACE”, doesn’t mean they have it. Guaranteed there are versions out there without the technology.
  • CheckJVCheckJV Male Model Posts: 2,092 ✭✭
    Rumor is some of the tour issued drivers have twist grips instead.
  • LondonerLondoner Posts: 1,166 ✭✭
    edited Feb 13, 2018 #164
    Mark Crossfield is a childish, imature idiot. In fact I hear a rumour that the society of idiots are suing him for giving idiots a bad name.



    I am VERY disappointed that Titelist associate themselves with him. Enough for me to avoid their products.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • QuigleyDUQuigleyDU Members Posts: 6,204 ✭✭
    Londoner wrote:


    Mark Crossfield is a childish, imature ****. In fact I hear a rumour that the society of dicks are suing him for giving dicks a bad name.



    I am VERY disappointed that Titelist associate themselves with him. Enough for me to avoid their products.




    ouch, might want to edit this a touch. haha, we get your point though.
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  • anthanth From the Land Down Under Members Posts: 2,763 ✭✭
    I heard a rumour Crossfield is a wanker. Can anyone confirm?



    This is not a statement. Just asking...
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  • J13J13 Dad golf Members Posts: 15,270 ✭✭
    Londoner wrote:


    Mark Crossfield is a childish, imature idiot. In fact I hear a rumour that the society of idiots are suing him for giving idiots a bad name.



    I am VERY disappointed that Titelist associate themselves with him. Enough for me to avoid their products.




    At some point you have to wonder if Titleist is going to drop him.
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  • RobYakesRobYakes "You can talk to a fade but a hook won't listen" Washington, D.C.Members Posts: 318 ✭✭
    Always enjoyed MC's videos, even don't mind the course vlogs (I know I'm in the minority, "bruvv"). But I've always taken his reviews with a huge grain of salt. Same goes with ****. But same also goes with Golf Digest's Hot Lists, Ricky Shiels, etc. At the end of the day I read it all, especially opinions and reviews on the WRX, and then try out equipment that I think will work for me and my level of play. Everybody in the golf industry has some agency/bias, it's just a question of how much or little they pretend to hide it.
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  • Double GeeDouble Gee Posts: 1,081 ✭✭
    Londoner wrote:


    Mark Crossfield is a childish, imature idiot. In fact I hear a rumour that the society of idiots are suing him for giving idiots a bad name.



    I am VERY disappointed that Titelist associate themselves with him. Enough for me to avoid their products.




    I assume you heard the rumour when you attended the monthly meeting of said Idiots society?



    In all seriousness, how can a you tube content golfer get you so upset to anger you or indeed others?





    It's just a bloke making a living and making commentary about the golfing world.



    As they always say, look for the 'off' button and move on.



    Finally in contrast to you, I would actually consider Titleist stuff with their support of MC as opposed to the countless million upon millions golf companies give Pro's at the cost of the public Joe Golfer.
  • LondonerLondoner Posts: 1,166 ✭✭
    I was gjving a talk on idiocy in forums. Your name came up a few times. image/taunt.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':taunt:' />



    As for MC. Some of the golf comments are quite good. Its the 12 year old delivery style and talking to his audience like idiots that i dont get. The constant TM knocks are just unprofessional. Not somebody I would want my brand associated with. Especially when you look at the demographics of who spends on golf equipment.
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  • Yellow JacketYellow Jacket Members Posts: 3,533
    edited Feb 14, 2018 #171
    This thread is quick to hate on Crossfield compared to Shiels, but Rick has never gotten close to this kind of in-depth discussion about the golf swing (starts at 1 min). In fact, it’s better than almost any instructor, YouTube or not:



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  • https://goo.gl/images/2VJQpK





    this will be wasted on our American friends but this is what i think of when i see mc
  • BForresterBForrester Unregistered Posts: 1,261


    This thread is quick to hate on Crossfield compared to Shiels, but Rick has never gotten close to this kind of in-depth discussion about the golf swing (starts at 1 min). In fact, it's better than almost any instructor, YouTube or not:



    [media=]




    I'm a big fan of Clay Ballard (Top Speed Golf) personally. For a YouTube guy, he seems to be top notch for instruction.
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  • jll62jll62 ClubWRX Posts: 1,992 ClubWRX


    I don't totally understand the conforming list. The way I understand the list its fine to play a club that is not on it, so long as you know it will pass (and it so does pass) if inspected. So, its not like they "had" to submit the modified drivers. Not submitting them may be a gamble, but as far as I understand the rules the conforming list a service to pre-check your equipment and anything on it will be presumed valid, but you don't *have* to get something tested to put it in play. You just suffer the consequences if you're wrong.




    This isn't quite accurate. The list of conforming clubs is more accurately referred to as the "List of Conforming Driver Heads" because it only includes drivers. All professional events and most elite level amateur events (e.g., US Amateur, etc) include a Condition of Competition that requires players must only use drivers which are on the List of Conforming Driver Heads. Therefore, a manufacturer MUST submit driver heads to the USGA and R&A for testing, or else they will not appear on the List and therefore cannot be played whenever this specific Condition of Competition is in effect (e.g., any PGA Tour event).



    For all other clubs, and for all drivers put into play when the above Condition of Competition is not in effect, your interpretation above is basically correct. In this situation, it's the player's responsibility to ensure they're playing clubs which are conforming to all equipment rules and guidelines set forth in the Rules.



    The main question people have raised in this thread for which I don't have an answer is what sort of changes to a driver head require retesting. If something as simple as the identifying marks change, that would be a retest. But if the face geometry changes, that's apparently an open question. My personal belief is that it would require a re-test because changing the face geometry could theoretically alter the CT values, but I have no evidence to back up my claim.
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  • CBRADGOCBRADGO Members Posts: 1,366 ✭✭
    gioguy21 wrote:

    wfrogge1 wrote:


    He clearly says this is a rumor.
    "...but i said all due respect"...




    It’s in the Geneva Convention, look it up.
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  • paztormikepaztormike Posts: 174 ✭✭
    It just cracks me up and says a lot about the time in which we live.

    Dozens of "adults" get so bent out of shape and upset about a guy who posts content online that none of us are forced to watch, and that none of us had to pay one penny to view. It's crazy to me that people are saying that they hope he gets sued for voicing his opinion. It just seems like the last few years, people are so antagonistic toward any opinion that differs from theirs that they will threaten anyone with an opposing viewpoint. Understand that if MC was sued by a manufacturer; all of the independent reviewers and vloggers would be nervous to give any differing points of view. It would be terrible for anyone who wants to hear anything except for the talking points direct from the marketing departments at golf manufacturers.



    In this case...The guy tweeted what he himself called a "rumor" to ask for more information.

    When verified that it was not true, he acknowledged the information and backed off and thanked those that tracked down the info.



    He did have a public beef with TM that I stopped watching. I love his vlogs and teaching stuff, (and his video production skills are pretty amazing) but I didn't need to hear any more about the TM beef, so I just didn't watch that stuff.

    To be balanced, we should also point out that he loved the "P" series of Irons that TM put out. He raved about the P730 and P790's being some of their best irons ever. So while he is sour about TM, he took care to be honest about the clubs that he did review. (And even after the beef with them, he still calls those clubs some of the best of the year.)



    I'm not a Crossfield apologist. I certainly don't like everything that he says and does. A lot of his reviews are a bit too preachy for me, and end up talking too little about the clubs and too much about his frustration with people trying to find the 'holy grail' of golf equipment.



    I love the fact that I pay exactly nothing for my subscription to his channel, the same that I pay for Shiels, Finch, Me and My Golf, Michael Newton, Teeuplo, Fried Eggs.



    What I just don't understand are people who are so upset that they use profanity to complain, posting that they want him to lose sponsorships and be sued. If he gets punished for having a different opinion, people will stop promoting new ideas. In that case, everyone loses out.



    The cool thing about youtube though is: one click and anyone can watch something else.
  • Bad9Bad9 Members Posts: 4,179 ✭✭
    Double Gee wrote:




    Finally in contrast to you, I would actually consider Titleist stuff with their support of MC as opposed to the countless million upon millions golf companies give Pro's at the cost of the public Joe Golfer.




    Wow. I didn't know all of those Pros listed on the Titleist website or sporting the Titelist name on their clothes, bag, hat were doing it for free. Good to know what companies don't spend large amounts of $ on advertising.
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  • ByeBye Posts: 1,307 ✭✭
    paztormike wrote:


    It just cracks me up and says a lot about the time in which we live.

    Dozens of "adults" get so bent out of shape and upset about a guy who posts content online that none of us are forced to watch, and that none of us had to pay one penny to view. It's crazy to me that people are saying that they hope he gets sued for voicing his opinion. It just seems like the last few years, people are so antagonistic toward any opinion that differs from theirs that they will threaten anyone with an opposing viewpoint. Understand that if MC was sued by a manufacturer; all of the independent reviewers and vloggers would be nervous to give any differing points of view. It would be terrible for anyone who wants to hear anything except for the talking points direct from the marketing departments at golf manufacturers.



    In this case...The guy tweeted what he himself called a "rumor" to ask for more information.

    When verified that it was not true, he acknowledged the information and backed off and thanked those that tracked down the info.



    He did have a public beef with TM that I stopped watching. I love his vlogs and teaching stuff, (and his video production skills are pretty amazing) but I didn't need to hear any more about the TM beef, so I just didn't watch that stuff.

    To be balanced, we should also point out that he loved the "P" series of Irons that TM put out. He raved about the P730 and P790's being some of their best irons ever. So while he is sour about TM, he took care to be honest about the clubs that he did review. (And even after the beef with them, he still calls those clubs some of the best of the year.)



    I'm not a Crossfield apologist. I certainly don't like everything that he says and does. A lot of his reviews are a bit too preachy for me, and end up talking too little about the clubs and too much about his frustration with people trying to find the 'holy grail' of golf equipment.



    I love the fact that I pay exactly nothing for my subscription to his channel, the same that I pay for Shiels, Finch, Me and My Golf, Michael Newton, Teeuplo, Fried Eggs.



    What I just don't understand are people who are so upset that they use profanity to complain, posting that they want him to lose sponsorships and be sued. If he gets punished for having a different opinion, people will stop promoting new ideas. In that case, everyone loses out.



    The cool thing about youtube though is: one click and anyone can watch something else.




    If he was not contracted in any way to an OEM then it would look petty. The fact is that he now represents Titleist. It changes the perspective on this as it could be seen as trying to discredit a competitors product/new technology. It becomes very hard to appear neutral when being paid in-industry.



    It's up to Titleist if this continues or not. If I worked there (which I don't) then I would be disappointed with this and the Taylormade hates me video. Like you I turned it off after a few minutes and have now stopped watching his stuff.



    I have no issue with these guys making a living from doing this stuff, and the more honest they are the better. But what did he think would happen? Pitching yourself as an independent club reviewer then signing with an OEM and trying to carry on as normal is a strange way of looking at things.



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  • Yellow JacketYellow Jacket Members Posts: 3,533
    People saying Mark can’t be impartial because Titleist sponsors him is due in part to misleading marketing by companies like TaylorMade. 17 yards anyone? 17/1700 anyone?



    Mark’s sponsorship is an opportunity for Titleist to get their brand in front of his viewers during daily and course vlogs. He will also be able to get access to some of their tour pros and facilities, which again gets their brand in front of his viewers.



    The Crossfield haters think that because they’d be unable to stop themselves from trashing competitors that Mark must be the same, that because they’d be unable to skew their reviews toward Titleist that Mark must be the same, even though that never happened when he was sponsored by FootJoy and now Under Armour. Projection much?
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  • vanillafunk616vanillafunk616 Posts: 551 ✭✭
    edited Feb 14, 2018 #180


    People saying Mark can’t be impartial because Titleist sponsors him is due in part to misleading marketing by companies like TaylorMade. 17 yards anyone? 17/1700 anyone?



    Mark’s sponsorship is an opportunity for Titleist to get their brand in front of his viewers during daily and course vlogs. He will also be able to get access to some of their tour pros and facilities, which again gets their brand in front of his viewers.



    The Crossfield haters think that because they’d be unable to stop themselves from trashing competitors that Mark must be the same, that because they’d be unable to skew their reviews toward Titleist that Mark must be the same, even though that never happened when he was sponsored by FootJoy and now Under Armour. Projection much?




    The issue is that his claim to fame is that he did independent reviews of golf clubs. People had lost faith in magazines, golf channel, infomercials, etc. because they were being paid for advertising. So the deal undermines his core advantage. Can he still be objective? Sure. But you'd be hard pressed to explain the difference between him and say golf digest at this point.
  • ByeBye Posts: 1,307 ✭✭


    People saying Mark can’t be impartial because Titleist sponsors him is due in part to misleading marketing by companies like TaylorMade. 17 yards anyone? 17/1700 anyone?



    Mark’s sponsorship is an opportunity for Titleist to get their brand in front of his viewers during daily and course vlogs. He will also be able to get access to some of their tour pros and facilities, which again gets their brand in front of his viewers.



    The Crossfield haters think that because they’d be unable to stop themselves from trashing competitors that Mark must be the same, that because they’d be unable to skew their reviews toward Titleist that Mark must be the same, even though that never happened when he was sponsored by FootJoy and now Under Armour. Projection much?




    The problem is, if he says another club is **** or doesn't do what the marketing buff says it then it's a Titleist representative saying that X company's driver is **** and their tech doesn't work. How could that be seen as impartial.



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