Getting really frustrated by the length of rounds.

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  • FourTopsFourTops Banned Posts: 1,676 ✭✭
    Beginner to intermediate golfers have a million swing thoughts going thru their heads on EVERY shot. They refuse to take lessons. Instead, they flip thru their mental rolodex of YouTube videos...what some guy told them on the range "10 minutes ago"...and try to recall the latest Golf Digest tip....then take 5 practice swings...then TOP or slice OB.



    The brain can't possibly instruct the body to do anything in 1.4 seconds...but they truly believe otherwise.
  • Hack DaddyHack Daddy Members Posts: 779 ✭✭
    nsxguy wrote:

    Hack Daddy wrote:


    9 minute tee times.



    That equates a 2.7 hr. round.



    The "average" 4-some needs about 15 minutes.




    Ummmmm,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, whut ???



    Once the group in front of you hits their approach to the first green you can tee off. You don't wait until they've finished the hole before you start,,,,,,,,,,,,,, image/einstein.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':beruo:' /> image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />




    Not too bright, are you?
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  • HatsForBatsHatsForBats Members Posts: 1,647 ✭✭
    edited Jun 12, 2018 #484
    Hack Daddy wrote:

    nsxguy wrote:

    Hack Daddy wrote:


    9 minute tee times.



    That equates a 2.7 hr. round.



    The "average" 4-some needs about 15 minutes.




    Ummmmm,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, whut ???



    Once the group in front of you hits their approach to the first green you can tee off. You don't wait until they've finished the hole before you start,,,,,,,,,,,,,, image/einstein.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':beruo:' /> image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />




    Not too bright, are you?




    The point is 9 minutes between tee times does not equate to 9 minutes per hole or a 2.7 hour round. Unless you expect the group to pickup after they have hit their approach shots to the green? The 9 minutes would be the time it takes an average group to tee off, hit their second shots and likely get near/on the green if they are an average speed foursome. Likely it is tee off, get to their tee shots, wait a minute for the group in front to clear the green, then hit their approaches. After that they still likely have a few players that need to chip on and then everyone needs to putt out.



    I have a course near me that has 9 minutes between tee times but does nothing to police when groups tee off. Many will hit their tee shots on the first hole before waiting the allotted wait time, they just hit once the group in front has hit their approaches, and then they wonder why it is so backed up at the second tee box.
  • BrandonDunesBrandonDunes Members Posts: 343 ✭✭
    Enforce groups playing from the right tees by having a course marshal that actually goes around the golf course to help speed up slow groups.



    Got stuck behind a group at the end of my round this past weekend that was taking longer than usual. From my observation they were topping quite a few and taking way to long on the greens. But the thing that upset me the most was that they were playing from the 2nd from the back tees and had no right to do so.



    Why would anyone subject themselves to playing a potentially longer and obviously harder round on themselves? Does't make any sense in my book?



    Get a marshal out there doing his job. If you want to play from a longer length but have the ability to keep up with pace of play, so be it. But if you can't keep up with pace of play someone needs to tell you that your taking too long.
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  • clichecliche Members Posts: 758 ✭✭


    Enforce groups playing from the right tees by having a course marshal that actually goes around the golf course to help speed up slow groups.



    Got stuck behind a group at the end of my round this past weekend that was taking longer than usual. From my observation they were topping quite a few and taking way to long on the greens. But the thing that upset me the most was that they were playing from the 2nd from the back tees and had no right to do so.



    Why would anyone subject themselves to playing a potentially longer and obviously harder round on themselves? Does't make any sense in my book?



    Get a marshal out there doing his job. If you want to play from a longer length but have the ability to keep up with pace of play, so be it. But if you can't keep up with pace of play someone needs to tell you that your taking too long.






    "Enforce groups playing from the right tees by having a course marshal that actually goes around the golf course."



    i think the biggest fault on the courses is, that they let the player decide from what tee boxes they are going to play. at our course, we have four (red=ladies hcp36-14, blue=ladies14-better, yellow=men hcp36-14, white=men 14-better).

    so why in the world would you let a man beginner (lets say hcp 36 or worse) tee off from the yellow? force him to play of the reds, and don't call them ladies tees. that will speed up things a i'm pretty sure he would enjoy it more.
  • mesquite2mesquite2 Members Posts: 762 ✭✭
    I am a starter at a very busy 36 hole complex in NJ. We have 10 minute spacing between groups. I won't allow any group to tee off any sooner, even if the group in front of them is putting on the green. This also helps my ranger to pick out any slow groups easily.
  • TollBrosTollBros Overseer of the Test Range Sponsors Posts: 4,914 ✭✭
    jli2636 wrote:






    Just to play devils advocate, what if the only course in the area is a “big boy” course? What if there isn’t a par 3 or an executive course in the area? Should those people just forever be banished to the driving range and never get to step foot on a real course?




    Rare instance I suppose but how about they make sure they can make consistent contact that advances the ball at least 100 yards every time, no pop ups, 20 yard duffs, 100 yard slices, then and only then hit the real course and attempt to play some golf. Double bogey golf can still be played at acceptable pace. Constantly searching for lost ball golf cannot.
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  • dubbelbogeydubbelbogey Members Posts: 440 ✭✭
    I love blasting through a quick 3hour 18 as much as the next golfer, but...



    While I try to generally schedule my tee times to avoid peak hours, when I can't avoid it, I just assume it's going to be a long round and there's nothing I can do about it (other than keep up with the group in front.) I either plan that day around a long round of golf or don't play at all.



    This problem isn't going away as I see no real willingness to change it by the courses or the USGA. If I'm going to be frustrated by 5 hour rounds starting mid Saturday morning at my local muni, I shouldn't be playing at that time at all. OTOH, if I have to play at that time, I'll just go with the flow and make the best of it. It's not the worst thing that could happen.



    I used to get frustrated by slow golfers in front because they spend too much time doing this or that "incorrectly". Pfft. Not worth the emotional energy.
  • TollBrosTollBros Overseer of the Test Range Sponsors Posts: 4,914 ✭✭
    nsxguy wrote:

    TollBros wrote:

    nsxguy wrote:






    Maybe it depends on the course but in my experience that would be one of the worst times.






    Agreed, 5:00pm on a weekday, a beginner is going to have a lineup of after-work speedster singles and twosomes (including me) standing with their hands on their hips behind him getting cranky because their chance at getting in 9-18 holes before dark is being put at risk.




    Maybe they work too. When SHOULD they be on the course ? Saturday and Sunday ???




    Stay on the driving range until you can make consistent advancing contact of at least 100 yards. Then go to 9 hole or par 3 courses and stay there until you can at least shoot no worse than double bogey golf. Then you're ready for the 18 hole big boy courses, however NOT the pristine, heavily watered and bunkered courses meant for players who can hit the ball straight. The biggest problem making golf slow is bad golf. A simple logical progression of play based on ability would take care of 95% of the issue.




    I don't disagree with you. In fact, that's pretty much what I did when I first learned to play. Personally I'd have been quite embarrassed to swing and miss,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, or completely duff more than a shot or 2 during the round.




    It's exactly the way I learned and was taught to play. My parents/grandparents stressed that I was to stay focused and not hold anyone up, and I was not allowed to play on a real course until I could keep up with everyone else and shoot around 100.
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  • nsxguynsxguy Just anudder user FloridaMembers Posts: 5,837 ✭✭
    Hack Daddy wrote:

    nsxguy wrote:

    Hack Daddy wrote:


    9 minute tee times.



    That equates a 2.7 hr. round.



    The "average" 4-some needs about 15 minutes.




    Ummmmm,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, whut ???



    Once the group in front of you hits their approach to the first green you can tee off. You don't wait until they've finished the hole before you start,,,,,,,,,,,,,, image/einstein.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':beruo:' /> image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />




    Not too bright, are you?




    Guess not. image/dntknw.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dntknw:' />



    Of course, if you really knew what you were talking about you'd explain how 9 minutes between tee times equals a 2.7 hour round.



    But I won't hold my breath waiting for the explanation. image/blind.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blind:' />

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  • BiggErnBiggErn Members Posts: 2,388 ✭✭
    Hack Daddy wrote:
    9 minute tee times.



    That equates a 2.7 hr. round.



    The "average" 4-some needs about 15 minutes.






    Bet the opening hole is a par 5 too image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
  • NPVWhizNPVWhiz Members Posts: 1,976 ✭✭
    edited Jun 15, 2018 #493
    I played nine holes as a single today at lunch at a local public course. The staffer at the desk said I could get out no problem. There was a single out in front in the fairway when I got to the first. He dropped three balls in the fairway and hit until he was happy.



    I gave him the old skiperoo and caught a foursome on the fourth hole after having to skip the construction crew sized maintenance crowd on the third hole, which was a par 3. I waited politely on the tee for someone to acknowledge my pathetic single golfer presence, but alas, it was not to be. Rather than bean one of them with my 15 yard downwind draw, I ignored the fact that I had paid "full price" rather than the "course is under repair" rate and moved along. I waited 10 minutes on the next tee, a stout par four. The four in front of me were rockin' the blue tees. They must have averaged three shots a piece from the point in the fairway where I caught up with them. I timed from when the first guy walked onto the next tee, a modest 330 yard par four. They walked off the green 16:42 later. A 2:35 nine hole run in the middle of a 90 degree day on a Thursday.



    Pathetic. It's like this at every public course around here during the week.



    It has finally dawned upon me that people that play during the week have absolutely nothing else going on but a relaxed 5 hour round. And this is down time, "me" time for the rangers. Frozen snickers ice-cream bar time. Find me some pro v 1 balls in the woods time.



    I'm not sure why I play this game anymore.



    I've actually gotten to where I enjoy hitting balls more than playing nine alone because I can actually hit the balls.



    The USGA is deluded with their nine hole thing they keep running on tv. It takes a loooooog time to play nine around here.
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  • BlackDiamondPar5BlackDiamondPar5 Members Posts: 5,306 ✭✭
    edited Jun 15, 2018 #494
    NPVWhiz wrote:


    I played nine holes as a single today at lunch at a local public course. The staffer at the desk said I could get out no problem. There was a single out in front in the fairway when I got to the first. He dropped three balls in the fairway and hit until he was happy.



    I gave him the old skiperoo and caught a foursome on the fourth hole after having to skip the construction crew sized maintenance crowd on the third hole, which was a par 3. I waited politely on the tee for someone to acknowledge my pathetic single golfer presence, but alas, it was not to be. Rather than bean one of them with my 15 yard downwind draw, I ignored the fact that I had paid "full price" rather than the "course is under repair" rate and moved along. I waited 10 minutes on the next tee, a stout par four. The four in front of me were rockin' the blue tees. They must have averaged three shots a piece from the point in the fairway where I caught up with them. I timed from when the first guy walked onto the next tee, a modest 330 yard par four. They walked off the green 16:42 later. A 2:35 nine hole run in the middle of a 90 degree day on a Thursday.



    Pathetic. It's like this at every public course around here during the week.



    It has finally dawned upon me that people that play during the week have absolutely nothing else going on but a relaxed 5 hour round. And this is down time, "me" time for the rangers. Frozen snickers ice-cream bar time. Find me some pro v 1 balls in the woods time.



    I'm not sure why I play this game anymore.



    I've actually gotten to where I enjoy hitting balls more than playing nine alone because I can actually hit the balls.



    The USGA is deluded with their nine hole thing they keep running on tv. It takes a loooooog time to play nine around here.


    The industry is its own worst enemy. I'm also shocked to learn that courses in some areas don't even offer 9 hole rates. Wtf they don't want money? Theres people that wouldn't mind squeezing in 9 2hrs before sunset.
  • Sean2Sean2 #TheWRX (Callaway Trip) Members Posts: 30,826 ✭✭


    Enforce groups playing from the right tees by having a course marshal that actually goes around the golf course to help speed up slow groups.



    Got stuck behind a group at the end of my round this past weekend that was taking longer than usual. From my observation they were topping quite a few and taking way to long on the greens. But the thing that upset me the most was that they were playing from the 2nd from the back tees and had no right to do so.



    Why would anyone subject themselves to playing a potentially longer and obviously harder round on themselves? Does't make any sense in my book?



    Get a marshal out there doing his job. If you want to play from a longer length but have the ability to keep up with pace of play, so be it. But if you can't keep up with pace of play someone needs to tell you that your taking too long.




    The other day there was a foursome in front of us playing the back tees. I don't think any of them broke 110. On the first hole, for example, one of them hit three shots and was still 200 yards from the green (300 yard par four). On another hole one guy was hitting his 6th shot and he was still 150 yards out. I don't care what tees people play, just keep moving. Though why anyone would want to make the game harder than it already is puzzles me as well.
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  • FourTopsFourTops Banned Posts: 1,676 ✭✭
    iMO...the reality is one either ponies-up the initiation fee and monthly dues and join a private CC...or suffer. Courses don't care...it's why they hire marshal's like Barney Fife.



    There's zero chance of shorter rounds on public courses....and their "semi-private" sister courses. It's a bunch of once-a-month golfers out for a joy ride. Or...find a place to have competitive chipping to some object to pass the time.
  • Mikey5eMikey5e Members Posts: 841 ✭✭
    FourTops wrote:


    iMO...the reality is one either ponies-up the initiation fee and monthly dues and join a private CC...or suffer. Courses don't care...it's why they hire marshal's like Barney Fife.



    There's zero chance of shorter rounds on public courses....and their "semi-private" sister courses. It's a bunch of once-a-month golfers out for a joy ride. Or...find a place to have competitive chipping to some object to pass the time.


    Unfortunately, I would have to agree with you, I don't think there's any hope for speeding things up. It only takes one slow group to slow it down for the entire course.
  • FourTopsFourTops Banned Posts: 1,676 ✭✭
    edited Jun 18, 2018 #498
    Mikey5e wrote:

    FourTops wrote:


    iMO...the reality is one either ponies-up the initiation fee and monthly dues and join a private CC...or suffer. Courses don't care...it's why they hire marshal's like Barney Fife.



    There's zero chance of shorter rounds on public courses....and their "semi-private" sister courses. It's a bunch of once-a-month golfers out for a joy ride. Or...find a place to have competitive chipping to some object to pass the time.


    Unfortunately, I would have to agree with you, I don't think there's any hope for speeding things up. It only takes one slow group to slow it down for the entire course.




    Finding something to do while waiting was not a passing thought. We used to have chipping contests to a tree, tee marker, or whatever. We all actually got pretty good at chipping!
  • North ButteNorth Butte Members Posts: 10,141 ✭✭
    At the public course where I learned to play our foursome arrived at the green one slow, slow Saturday back nine and started putting. Then we realized there were only three of us.



    The fourth guy, Mike, was sprawled 150 yards back down the fairway. We all hustled over thinking he had been hit by a golf ball or had a heart attack or who knows what. Turns out he was sound asleep and snoring. He had literally dozed off waiting for the green to clear and we were such zombies we didn’t noticed he never hit his approach shot.



    I don’t the groups stacked up behind us thought it was very funny but by the next hole we had caught up and we’re back to waiting.
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  • FourTopsFourTops Banned Posts: 1,676 ✭✭


    At the public course where I learned to play our foursome arrived at the green one slow, slow Saturday back nine and started putting. Then we realized there were only three of us.



    The fourth guy, Mike, was sprawled 150 yards back down the fairway. We all hustled over thinking he had been hit by a golf ball or had a heart attack or who knows what. Turns out he was sound asleep and snoring. He had literally dozed off waiting for the green to clear and we were such zombies we didn’t noticed he never hit his approach shot.



    I don’t the groups stacked up behind us thought it was very funny but by the next hole we had caught up and we’re back to waiting.




    Make sure everyone in the group is present and accounted for...especially your group!
  • thug the bunnythug the bunny Members Posts: 6,141 ✭✭


    At the public course where I learned to play our foursome arrived at the green one slow, slow Saturday back nine and started putting. Then we realized there were only three of us.



    The fourth guy, Mike, was sprawled 150 yards back down the fairway. We all hustled over thinking he had been hit by a golf ball or had a heart attack or who knows what. Turns out he was sound asleep and snoring. He had literally dozed off waiting for the green to clear and we were such zombies we didn’t noticed he never hit his approach shot.



    I don’t the groups stacked up behind us thought it was very funny but by the next hole we had caught up and we’re back to waiting.




    Wait, so you didn't let them play through?
  • FourTopsFourTops Banned Posts: 1,676 ✭✭
    edited Jun 18, 2018 #502
    mesquite2 wrote:


    I am a starter at a very busy 36 hole complex in NJ. We have 10 minute spacing between groups. I won't allow any group to tee off any sooner, even if the group in front of them is putting on the green. This also helps my ranger to pick out any slow groups easily.




    New Jersey...everyone is so exhausted from turning right to turn left they don't care about slow play.
  • BiggErnBiggErn Members Posts: 2,388 ✭✭
    mesquite2 wrote:
    I am a starter at a very busy 36 hole complex in NJ. We have 10 minute spacing between groups. I won't allow any group to tee off any sooner, even if the group in front of them is putting on the green. This also helps my ranger to pick out any slow groups easily.






    Yea let’s look for unnecessary reasons to hassle paying customers. This is how I envision the “course police” acting at most places especially NJ.
  • deadsolid...shankdeadsolid...shank ClubWRX Posts: 14,685 ClubWRX
    BiggErn wrote:

    mesquite2 wrote:
    I am a starter at a very busy 36 hole complex in NJ. We have 10 minute spacing between groups. I won't allow any group to tee off any sooner, even if the group in front of them is putting on the green. This also helps my ranger to pick out any slow groups easily.






    Yea let’s look for unnecessary reasons to hassle paying customers. This is how I envision the “course police” acting at most places especially NJ.




    What’s unnecessary about that. That’s just good policy.
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  • 406pat406pat Members Posts: 20
    The biggest problem that I see is that the golf course is managed and played considering independent groups with no regard to how those groups interact with one another. This ignores the fact that the golf course is an interdependent system. Depending on the course loading, the course operates in one of three phases: free flow where loading is so light that the only limiting factors are the group or players ability and the course difficulty, interdependent phase where groups begin impacting one another, and saturated where management becomes the controlling variable.

    We've all seen this and we all know the results, but long rounds in the three different phases have very different causes. Most of the comments on this thread addressing slow play talk about player behavior and ability but, as long as both are reasonable, these are not controlling variables on a saturated course. Unfortunately, most courses are saturated and one of the biggest culprits is mismanaged tee times. This has been touched on here, but proper tee time intervals and proper enforcement of those tee times is the first step to addressing long rounds. As a general rule, if your tee time interval is less than the time it takes to clear the landing zone on the slowest hole, you are saturating the course.

    Here's an example - A local course I play has a par time for each hole on the scorecard to get players moving. The par 3 fourth hole has a par time of 14 minutes on the card. The tee time interval in summer is 8 minutes. If it takes every group an average of 14 minutes to play the hole and a new group comes to the hole every 8 minutes... you can see where this is going.

    It doesn't matter if every group on the sheet can "play 18 in 3:30" because the course is saturated, making that variable insignificant. If you've got a packed freeway it doesn't matter that the speed limit is 60 or if you're driving a Corvette, you're only going to be moving as fast as the system allows.

    Tee time intervals are a casualty of "because we've always done it this way" thinking. Ask most courses how they come up with their intervals and par times and you'll hear " because that's what it should take" or "we've already changed from 8 to 9". How many say "we've analyzed play, course setup, and revenue and our optimal interval is 11.5 minutes so we go off a strict 11 minute interval."

    Saturation leads to 6 hour rounds, leads to players accepting 6 hour rounds, leads to players thinking a 6 hour pace is okay. Courses can't demand better pace of play until they enable better pace of play.
  • bellview17bellview17 Just chilling in the time out box Members Posts: 915
    Non-tourist season, 3 1/2 to 4 hr rounds. I either play first off or 2 - 3 pm when it is too hot and chases off the non-locals during the summer.

    Weekends are 5-6 and I have stopped playing. Too many tourist rounds from the black tees after a few visits from the beer cart.



    One solution would be a small discount to play from the correct tees.
  • third-times-a-charmthird-times-a-charm Members Posts: 1,565 ✭✭
    edited Jun 19, 2018 #507
    Spent last weekend behind 4 old men that never asked my Wife and I to play through even once. Were right behind them all day. The round was only 4:45, but it could have been 3:45 for us. Spend 5 mins on each tee box waiting for their fairway shots onto the green for at least 10 of the holes.



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  • wrmillerwrmiller Members Posts: 1,569 ✭✭
    406pat wrote:


    The biggest problem that I see is that the golf course is managed and played considering independent groups with no regard to how those groups interact with one another. This ignores the fact that the golf course is an interdependent system. Depending on the course loading, the course operates in one of three phases: free flow where loading is so light that the only limiting factors are the group or players ability and the course difficulty, interdependent phase where groups begin impacting one another, and saturated where management becomes the controlling variable.

    We've all seen this and we all know the results, but long rounds in the three different phases have very different causes. Most of the comments on this thread addressing slow play talk about player behavior and ability but, as long as both are reasonable, these are not controlling variables on a saturated course. Unfortunately, most courses are saturated and one of the biggest culprits is mismanaged tee times. This has been touched on here, but proper tee time intervals and proper enforcement of those tee times is the first step to addressing long rounds. As a general rule, if your tee time interval is less than the time it takes to clear the landing zone on the slowest hole, you are saturating the course.

    Here's an example - A local course I play has a par time for each hole on the scorecard to get players moving. The par 3 fourth hole has a par time of 14 minutes on the card. The tee time interval in summer is 8 minutes. If it takes every group an average of 14 minutes to play the hole and a new group comes to the hole every 8 minutes... you can see where this is going.

    It doesn't matter if every group on the sheet can "play 18 in 3:30" because the course is saturated, making that variable insignificant. If you've got a packed freeway it doesn't matter that the speed limit is 60 or if you're driving a Corvette, you're only going to be moving as fast as the system allows.

    Tee time intervals are a casualty of "because we've always done it this way" thinking. Ask most courses how they come up with their intervals and par times and you'll hear " because that's what it should take" or "we've already changed from 8 to 9". How many say "we've analyzed play, course setup, and revenue and our optimal interval is 11.5 minutes so we go off a strict 11 minute interval."

    Saturation leads to 6 hour rounds, leads to players accepting 6 hour rounds, leads to players thinking a 6 hour pace is okay. Courses can't demand better pace of play until they enable better pace of play.




    From a former engineer's perspective, this is just common sense. But I have realized over the years that many (if not the majority) of people suffer from a distinct lack of said. Even golf course/business owners. It is what it is, unfortunately.
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  • 406pat406pat Members Posts: 20
    @wrmiller you've got me pegged. Civil Engineer with an MBA. Special kind of nerd.
  • MountainGoatMountainGoat Mid-MarylandMembers Posts: 1,784 ✭✭


    Spent last weekend behind 4 old men that never asked my Wife and I to play through even once. Were right behind them all day. The round was only 4:45, but it could have been 3:45 for us. Spend 5 mins on each tee box waiting for their fairway shots onto the green for at least 10 of the holes.



    le sigh




    Four old men will never invite a woman to play thru. Not today, not tomorrow, not ever.
  • Mikey5eMikey5e Members Posts: 841 ✭✭
    Unless you play early enough, rounds on the weekends are always going to be extra long. It's just what it is. I imagine some of the people that play on the weekends don't even consider how fast or slow they are playing, they're just playing.
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