Best Driver of 2019 | Full Article _HERE_ | Discussion Thread _HERE_

Muscle Back "Blade" Irons --- History and Future?

1356721

Comments

  • gbartkogbartko Whooooo! Members Posts: 663 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So Molinari wins by a slim margin. Maybe the blade players lost a stroke due to their clubs and molinari gained a stroke from his over the course of 72 holes....



    Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.





    Ping Rapture 12.5
    TEE CB4 Tour 16.5
    Callaway x2Hot Pro 20/23
    Ping i E1 5-U
    Ping Glide ES 54.5/60
    Ping iN Half Wack-e
    Titleist DT TruSoft

  • rxk9fanrxk9fan MidwestMembers Posts: 852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    One thing I don't see mentioned in these threads is that blades might offer a certain advantage for at least a fair percentage of players from certain distances/and or conditions. I don't for the life of me know how anyone keeps anything low when needed with a shovel. Nor, can imaging a bump and run with a 8i shovel. Not being argumentative but there are a lot of more precise shots that would seem to me to be easier with a blade. I also feel like repeating distances are tough with some of the newer designs.

    No debating that newer "designs" flat out help those that rarely hit the middle of the club. However at some point in the skill set profile comes a time when blades would outperform shovels IMO. I guess though that in the cases where the player would benefit from the blades they do not need any more marketing than seeing what some of the top players in the world play.
    Taylormade M5 driver with Oban Kiyoshi Tour Limited stiff 
    Taylormade M4 tour 3 wood with Oban Kiyoshi Tour Limited stiff
    Taylormade M4 tour 5 wood with Tensei Blue stiff
    Taylormade M6 Rescue 19 degree with Atmos orange stiff
    Taylormade P790 5i with Recoil 95 F4 shaft
    Taylormade P770 6i-AW with Recoil 95 F4 shafts
    Taylormade Hi Toe 54 and 58 with KBS
    Taylormade Spider X

    First single OEM I have played and love it
  • duffer987duffer987 I'm old enough to remember a time when Ignore and Feedback worked. Canadian in CaliforniaMembers Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    ^If you cannot bump and run a G25 8i there's a problem with your imagination - or worse, your swing - and not the club.
  • gdb99gdb99 Members Posts: 1,696 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    rxk9fan wrote:


    One thing I don't see mentioned in these threads is that blades might offer a certain advantage for at least a fair percentage of players from certain distances/and or conditions. I don't for the life of me know how anyone keeps anything low when needed with a shovel. Nor, can imaging a bump and run with a 8i shovel. Not being argumentative but there are a lot of more precise shots that would seem to me to be easier with a blade. I also feel like repeating distances are tough with some of the newer designs.

    No debating that newer "designs" flat out help those that rarely hit the middle of the club. However at some point in the skill set profile comes a time when blades would outperform shovels IMO. I guess though that in the cases where the player would benefit from the blades they do not need any more marketing than seeing what some of the top players in the world play.


    I play 712 AP1 irons. In the past I have played Callaway X14 and X-20 irons.

    I have also played Mizuno MP14’s, MP 33’s, Maltby MMB’s.

    Keeping a shot low has nothing to with club design in my opinion.

    How do you hit a knock down 3 wood or hit a hybrid under a tree branch?

    It’s in your swing.
    Cobra King LTD, Diamana Redboard stiff flex
    Titleist 917F 16.5, Diamana Tensei Blue regular flex
    Cleveland DST 3 hybrid, Diamana Redboard regular flex 
    Titleist AP1, 5-PW, Dynalite XP R300
    Vokey SM7 52F
    Vokey SM7 56M
    Cleveland 588RTG 60
    Odyssey #2
  • farmerfarmer Members Posts: 8,127 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm in there with Duffer. Knocking a shot down or playing a bump and run is face angle and swing. It is not reserved only for blades.
  • mahoniemahonie EnglandMembers Posts: 2,524 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    farmer wrote:


    I'm in there with Duffer. Knocking a shot down or playing a bump and run is face angle and swing. It is not reserved only for blades.




    I can do it with CBs but find it much easier with MBs...the lower CG and higher offset in the CB automatically gets the ball launching higher for me. Typically I take a couple of clubs more to take the loft off but then struggle with distance control. The other issue I usually have is that if I’m in the trees and having to play under branches, I’m also trying to move it one way or t’other around the trunks that are supporting said branches and again I just find it easier with a MB. I’m guessing your argument would be that if I used CBs I wouldn’t be in the teees in the first place ;-)
    Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Fubuki ZT Stiff
    MD Golf Superstrong 3-wood UST Proforce 65 Stiff
    Wilson Staff FG Tour M3 21* Hybrid Aldila RIP Stiff
    Mizuno MP4 4-PW DG S300
    Wilson Staff PMP wedges 50/54/58 KBS Hi-Rev 2.0
    Radius Classic 8
  • duffer987duffer987 I'm old enough to remember a time when Ignore and Feedback worked. Canadian in CaliforniaMembers Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    mahonie wrote:

    farmer wrote:


    I'm in there with Duffer. Knocking a shot down or playing a bump and run is face angle and swing. It is not reserved only for blades.




    I can do it with CBs but find it much easier with MBs...the lower CG and higher offset in the CB automatically gets the ball launching higher for me. Typically I take a couple of clubs more to take the loft off but then struggle with distance control. The other issue I usually have is that if I’m in the trees and having to play under branches, I’m also trying to move it one way or t’other around the trunks that are supporting said branches and again I just find it easier with a MB. I’m guessing your argument would be that if I used CBs I wouldn’t be in the teees in the first place ;-)




    No just that if you cannot alter these things with any 'ol clubhead design, you need to work on your game image/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

    I see a fair few golfers - typically with some old Callaway X-something or Ping G irons and not the 25s, but the 2s, 5s, 10s - that play shots along the ground no prob.



    I tried the G25s for 10-12 rounds, but didn't like the size and offset. Dead easy to play shots with though, just like the S55s I currently use.

    Heck if I need a low one from under a tree and it's a scruffy lie, I'm using my hybrid and those are supposed to be launch it high hook machines.



    And do note we were replying to the following, which is the typical hyperbole - with the typical pejorative thrown in for added measure:
    I don't for the life of me know how anyone keeps anything low when needed with a shovel. Nor, can imaging a bump and run with a 8i shovel.
  • BiggErnBiggErn Members Posts: 2,655 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Jul 22, 2018 #69
    mahonie wrote:
    farmer wrote:


    I'm in there with Duffer. Knocking a shot down or playing a bump and run is face angle and swing. It is not reserved only for blades.




    I can do it with CBs but find it much easier with MBs...the lower CG and higher offset in the CB automatically gets the ball launching higher for me. Typically I take a couple of clubs more to take the loft off but then struggle with distance control. The other issue I usually have is that if I’m in the trees and having to play under branches, I’m also trying to move it one way or t’other around the trunks that are supporting said branches and again I just find it easier with a MB. I’m guessing your argument would be that if I used CBs I wouldn’t be in the teees in the first place ;-)






    Sounds like you need to work on your driving if you’re having to hit knockdowns under branches that often. Also the MB user linenof thinking is they’d just be farther in the trees with a CB.
  • mahoniemahonie EnglandMembers Posts: 2,524 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    BiggErn wrote:

    mahonie wrote:
    farmer wrote:


    I'm in there with Duffer. Knocking a shot down or playing a bump and run is face angle and swing. It is not reserved only for blades.




    I can do it with CBs but find it much easier with MBs...the lower CG and higher offset in the CB automatically gets the ball launching higher for me. Typically I take a couple of clubs more to take the loft off but then struggle with distance control. The other issue I usually have is that if I’m in the trees and having to play under branches, I’m also trying to move it one way or t’other around the trunks that are supporting said branches and again I just find it easier with a MB. I’m guessing your argument would be that if I used CBs I wouldn’t be in the teees in the first place ;-)






    Sounds like you need to work on your driving if you’re having to hit knockdowns under branches that often. Also the MB user linenof thinking is they’d just be farther in the trees with a CB.




    18-25 yard wide fairways and tree-lined as well means there is always plenty of opportunity for knockdowns under trees no matter how accurate off the tee ;-).



    The future for MBs looks pretty good this side of the pond. I see a fair proportion of MBs in anything up to mid-cap bags...three sets of Mizuno MP18s in the last few weeks.
    Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Fubuki ZT Stiff
    MD Golf Superstrong 3-wood UST Proforce 65 Stiff
    Wilson Staff FG Tour M3 21* Hybrid Aldila RIP Stiff
    Mizuno MP4 4-PW DG S300
    Wilson Staff PMP wedges 50/54/58 KBS Hi-Rev 2.0
    Radius Classic 8
  • mahoniemahonie EnglandMembers Posts: 2,524 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    duffer987 wrote:

    mahonie wrote:

    farmer wrote:


    I'm in there with Duffer. Knocking a shot down or playing a bump and run is face angle and swing. It is not reserved only for blades.




    I can do it with CBs but find it much easier with MBs...the lower CG and higher offset in the CB automatically gets the ball launching higher for me. Typically I take a couple of clubs more to take the loft off but then struggle with distance control. The other issue I usually have is that if I’m in the trees and having to play under branches, I’m also trying to move it one way or t’other around the trunks that are supporting said branches and again I just find it easier with a MB. I’m guessing your argument would be that if I used CBs I wouldn’t be in the teees in the first place ;-)




    No just that if you cannot alter these things with any 'ol clubhead design, you need to work on your game image/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

    I see a fair few golfers - typically with some old Callaway X-something or Ping G irons and not the 25s, but the 2s, 5s, 10s - that play shots along the ground no prob.



    I tried the G25s for 10-12 rounds, but didn't like the size and offset. Dead easy to play shots with though, just like the S55s I currently use.

    Heck if I need a low one from under a tree and it's a scruffy lie, I'm using my hybrid and those are supposed to be launch it high hook machines.



    And do note we were replying to the following, which is the typical hyperbole - with the typical pejorative thrown in for added measure:
    I don't for the life of me know how anyone keeps anything low when needed with a shovel. Nor, can imaging a bump and run with a 8i shovel.





    When I can play knockdowns relatively easily with the MP4s, I don’t feel the need to work at it with CBs ;-). I play with a few low caps who swear by their G10s and they have every shot in the book...even a low running fade...which I could never pull off with a G club!!
    Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Fubuki ZT Stiff
    MD Golf Superstrong 3-wood UST Proforce 65 Stiff
    Wilson Staff FG Tour M3 21* Hybrid Aldila RIP Stiff
    Mizuno MP4 4-PW DG S300
    Wilson Staff PMP wedges 50/54/58 KBS Hi-Rev 2.0
    Radius Classic 8
  • NoFancyUsername.NoFancyUsername. Members Posts: 492 ✭✭✭✭
    WRXers love hitting 300yd drives everyday. Now a blade is something made of cast and some even have a screw where they squirt Spider-Man goo into them. The world is changing.
  • LaymanMLaymanM Cincinnati, OHMembers Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭✭✭✭


    chisag wrote:


    ... You are looking at things thru your eyes and your experience. As a full time instructor for 5 years I can assure you there were very few students that could shoot their lowest score and play MB's. Again, they are certainly out there and you seem to be one of them, but you are in the minority. There is a reason they don't let MLB players use a perimeter weighted aluminum bat, and it is crazy rare to see a college player use a solid wood bat. The advantages of perimeter weighting is undeniable and you just don't see many MB players using a 300 cc driver with limited perimeter weighting as opposed to a 460/440cc forgiving driver. That said, if you have the game to hit the center and control your trajectory the difference between a CB and MB can be non existent for you and of course for some, a CB with more weight low in the head producing a higher trajectory can be worse for their game.



    ... WRX seems to be the only place this topic generates opposition form either side. Now that I am not teaching, I couldn't care less what you play. : )




    I agree that if you cannot hit the center of the club, MBs are not for you. I said the benefit of an MB for such a person is on the driving range, where they will learn through better feedback how to hit the center.



    For those who CAN hit the center of the club face, the benefits are far better distance control, ability to shape shots, and better ability to dig through rough. So, there are reasons for good players to use blades, other than just wanting to look cool. Just look at the pros. Their income is based on how they perform with their clubs. World ranking does not care what your irons look like, but your bank account does care about world ranking, finishes and endorsements.




    Its not binary. You don't hit or not hit the center. You hit it to varying degrees. Even good players miss by milimeters and they do so quite often. Hogan said he only hit it perfectly 2 or 3 times a round. MBs are cool clubs, but there isn't a player alive who hits the exact center of the clubface over half the time.




    Tell that to Tiger
    PING G410 9* PX Evenflow Black 75 6.0
    PING G410 LST 3w PX Evenflow Black 85 6.0
    PING G410 5w PX Evenflow Black 85 6.0
    PING G410 4-PW AWT 2 0 stiff
    PING Stealth Glide 2.0 50ss/54ss/58ss
    PING Sigam G Tyne
  • 1Mordrid11Mordrid1 Members Posts: 645 ✭✭✭✭✭
    rxk9fan wrote:


    One thing I don't see mentioned in these threads is that blades might offer a certain advantage for at least a fair percentage of players from certain distances/and or conditions. I don't for the life of me know how anyone keeps anything low when needed with a shovel. Nor, can imaging a bump and run with a 8i shovel. Not being argumentative but there are a lot of more precise shots that would seem to me to be easier with a blade. I also feel like repeating distances are tough with some of the newer designs.

    No debating that newer "designs" flat out help those that rarely hit the middle of the club. However at some point in the skill set profile comes a time when blades would outperform shovels IMO. I guess though that in the cases where the player would benefit from the blades they do not need any more marketing than seeing what some of the top players in the world play.




    Skill is skill. If the reasoning for playing blades is superior ball striking then those players should be skilled enough to adapt to less demanding clubs.



    As for the lack of consistent distance control in GI irons, that is a myth that has been busted many times. If someone plays blades because they are a good ball striker, but gets "fairway jumpers" with GI clubs, then they are not as proficient as they think at their ball striking. If GI clubs were really capable of 20 yard jumpers, how would they not fail USGA cor tests?
    WITB

    PXG  0811x Evenflow Blue 65 S
    Callaway Rogue 4 wood w/ Oban Kiyoshi White 4 65g
    Nike Sasquatch Sumo #4 hybrid(cut down 1") w/ H Diamana s
    Srixon U65 20° Miyazaki Kaula 7 s
    PXG 0211 irons 5-G True Temper Elevate 95 S (1°flat 1°weak D4 swingweight)
    Callaway Mack Daddy PM Grind 19 54/ KBS Hi-Rev 2.0 115
    Callaway Mack Daddy PM Grind 19 60/KBS Hi-Rev 2.0 115
    PXG 400 gram Bat Attack putter(double bend shaft)
    Snell MTB Black
  • rainkingjrrainkingjr Members Posts: 2,670 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Jul 23, 2018 #75
    I don't currently play MB's ,but have shot my lowest rounds using them. The blade/CB debate gets old. The main reason I have ever played MB's and probably will again is be cause I just like them. Simple as that.
  • BiggErnBiggErn Members Posts: 2,655 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    rainkingjr wrote:
    I don't currently play MB's ,but have shot my lowest rounds using them. The blade/CB debate gets old. The main reason I have ever played MB's and probably will again is be cause I just like them. Simple as that.






    But what was your lowest rounds?
  • rxk9fanrxk9fan MidwestMembers Posts: 852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well, I guess I got told how it really is :-)

    So clubs that are designed to help players get the ball in the air easier are just as easy to knock down as blades? Thin faced clubs that are designed to have a trampoline effect are just as easy to bump and run as a blade? You guys ARE talented!! If the PGA knew these things there would be no reason to ever manufacture another blade! I have learned on WRX:

    1. Cast feels the same as forged

    2. Knock downs and trajectory control are the same with a blade and a Big Bertha and if you don't see that your swing needs help

    3. Hitting a precise bump and run should be the same regardless of what club you use
    Taylormade M5 driver with Oban Kiyoshi Tour Limited stiff 
    Taylormade M4 tour 3 wood with Oban Kiyoshi Tour Limited stiff
    Taylormade M4 tour 5 wood with Tensei Blue stiff
    Taylormade M6 Rescue 19 degree with Atmos orange stiff
    Taylormade P790 5i with Recoil 95 F4 shaft
    Taylormade P770 6i-AW with Recoil 95 F4 shafts
    Taylormade Hi Toe 54 and 58 with KBS
    Taylormade Spider X

    First single OEM I have played and love it
  • duffer987duffer987 I'm old enough to remember a time when Ignore and Feedback worked. Canadian in CaliforniaMembers Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Jul 23, 2018 #78
    rxk9fan wrote:


    Well, I guess I got told how it really is :-)

    So clubs that are designed to help players get the ball in the air easier are just as easy to knock down as blades? Thin faced clubs that are designed to have a trampoline effect are just as easy to bump and run as a blade? You guys ARE talented!! If the PGA knew these things there would be no reason to ever manufacture another blade! I have learned on WRX:

    1. Cast feels the same as forged

    2. Knock downs and trajectory control are the same with a blade and a Big Bertha and if you don't see that your swing needs help

    3. Hitting a precise bump and run should be the same regardless of what club you use




    I guess at this point I will remind you, that you said this:


    I don't for the life of me know how anyone keeps anything low when needed with a shovel. Nor, can imaging a bump and run with a 8i shovel.




    If you are looking for a reason to sell your shovels and get MBs, then you can just go and do it, because buying stuff is fun, but if you cannot keep your current ball flight low or hit bump and runs because of the 770 shovels you play, it's not them, it's you.
  • rxk9fanrxk9fan MidwestMembers Posts: 852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    1Mordrid1 wrote:

    rxk9fan wrote:


    One thing I don't see mentioned in these threads is that blades might offer a certain advantage for at least a fair percentage of players from certain distances/and or conditions. I don't for the life of me know how anyone keeps anything low when needed with a shovel. Nor, can imaging a bump and run with a 8i shovel. Not being argumentative but there are a lot of more precise shots that would seem to me to be easier with a blade. I also feel like repeating distances are tough with some of the newer designs.

    No debating that newer "designs" flat out help those that rarely hit the middle of the club. However at some point in the skill set profile comes a time when blades would outperform shovels IMO. I guess though that in the cases where the player would benefit from the blades they do not need any more marketing than seeing what some of the top players in the world play.




    Skill is skill. If the reasoning for playing blades is superior ball striking then those players should be skilled enough to adapt to less demanding clubs.



    As for the lack of consistent distance control in GI irons, that is a myth that has been busted many times. If someone plays blades because they are a good ball striker, but gets "fairway jumpers" with GI clubs, then they are not as proficient as they think at their ball striking. If GI clubs were really capable of 20 yard jumpers, how would they not fail USGA cor tests?




    This myth is almost always “busted” by the guys who don’t have the abilities required to play small heads. If skill is skill and GI irons are superior then why do so many lower HC and professionals play what they play? Your argument plays as justification for what you use. I do not have to justify or theorize my point because it can be seen in hard data what professionals play. If the GI offered the performance they needed it would be a gold mine for OME marketing! Obviously they don’t perform the same. Professionals know it and even my common single digit HC can see what club best lends itself to characteristics on the course. High and straight ...GI hard to beat. Low cut...GI easy to beat.

    Not arguing...just stating the absolute obvious.
    Taylormade M5 driver with Oban Kiyoshi Tour Limited stiff 
    Taylormade M4 tour 3 wood with Oban Kiyoshi Tour Limited stiff
    Taylormade M4 tour 5 wood with Tensei Blue stiff
    Taylormade M6 Rescue 19 degree with Atmos orange stiff
    Taylormade P790 5i with Recoil 95 F4 shaft
    Taylormade P770 6i-AW with Recoil 95 F4 shafts
    Taylormade Hi Toe 54 and 58 with KBS
    Taylormade Spider X

    First single OEM I have played and love it
  • cmatthews77cmatthews77 ALMembers Posts: 872 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I’ve played Apex Pros ‘16, Apex CF16 and now the Apex MBs over the last two years and honestly see minimal difference in terms of my ability to hit a good shot with any of them. Mis-hits are Mia-hits and flush shots are flush shots.



    My handicap has come down 3+ points since putting the MBs in the bag. While I don’t attribute that as the reason it certainly hasn’t prevented me from continuing to improve. The biggest thing that has helped is gapping and understanding exactly how far the ball should fly and that being consistent always.



    Granted I’m only talking about the scoring clubs... I kept the Apex Pro in 6 and 7iron however I’m absolutely convinced there’s not much difference for me. I could easily play the MB 7iron.



    Now I will also say that I get more out of the Apex CF16 5-iron than I can with the MB or the Apex Pro. I’m sure it’s the combination of loft (although I have it weakened to blend better), Cup face and whatever “technology” is there but it does help me at my club head speed.



    So... what’s the takeaway. I’m a single digit (1.8) but I just don’t think it’s any easier for a decent golfer to hit a MB 9-iron vs a shovel 9-iron and in fact could make the case it’s easier to hit the MB. (I tried to hit my neighbors Rogue X 9-iron just for fun to see how far I’d hit it and never hit it solid in 4 tries). At some point there can become a benefit of a game improvement in if nothing else maintaining proper gaps with irons. As a 100mph driver swing speed player at 40YO that’s about the 5-iron where I stop seeing enough gap and thus I employ a modern game improvement stick that still appeals to my eye enough to play it.
    Callaway
    Epic Flash Sub Zero 9 degree - Hzrdus Yellow HC
    GBB Epic 3W (14) - Fubuki ax 
    GBB Epic 5W (18) - Project X HZRDUS
    Apex 3 (20) & 4 (23) Hybrid- Kuro Kage
    '16 Apex CF16 (5i), '16 Apex Pro (6,7), '18 Apex MB (8-PW) Recoil 95
    MD3 Black 52 & '19 PM Grind 58
    Toulon Design Odyssey Atlanta
  • MelloYelloMelloYello Upstate, SCMembers Posts: 3,545 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Jul 23, 2018 #81
    Remember, the more arguing there is about something, the more inconsequential it's likely to be in real life.



    When there isn't actual data to prove something definitively, opinions tend to dominate and you see a mass debate which generally splits 50/50 on the basis of overly-simplistic generalizations.



    So I think there's a point to be made that it's a toss up for most golfers. I would say that amongst mid-handicappers, scoring is more a function of other things like how they're driving and putting. What kind of 5-iron the 15- or 20-handicapper is playing tends to be pretty irrelevant. The most critical irons tend to be the shorter ones where you can see big swings depending on the outcome. That's offset by the fact short irons are where you see the least difference amongst club designs.



    That said, I do find it kind of intriguing how a good many people report carding their personal bests with blades, as if maybe you're more likely to get in the zone with those kinds of clubs. That could easily be BS, but there might be something to it. I know for me, that was true. Maybe it was random. Maybe it wasn't.



    I know that for me though, my score is not that affected by what irons I play. Driving, short game and putting tend to dominate.



    For pretty much any short I hit with a blade, there's usually a way it could've been done with some kind of CB. That said, blades seem to have less "bias" so it's not surprising they tend to be preferred by folks who imagine being creative as opposed to trying to hit the same shot every time (a la Zach Johnson).
    Driver: TaylorMade M3 (10.5) w. Tensei Pro Orange
    3w: TaylorMade '07 Burner
    5w: Nike SQ II
    Irons: Titleist 716 CB (4-Pw)
    Wedges: Vokey SM6 52-F / 56-F / 60-S
    Putter: Scotty Cameron Newport 2 Select
  • BiggErnBiggErn Members Posts: 2,655 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    rxk9fan wrote:
    1Mordrid1 wrote:

    rxk9fan wrote:


    One thing I don't see mentioned in these threads is that blades might offer a certain advantage for at least a fair percentage of players from certain distances/and or conditions. I don't for the life of me know how anyone keeps anything low when needed with a shovel. Nor, can imaging a bump and run with a 8i shovel. Not being argumentative but there are a lot of more precise shots that would seem to me to be easier with a blade. I also feel like repeating distances are tough with some of the newer designs.

    No debating that newer "designs" flat out help those that rarely hit the middle of the club. However at some point in the skill set profile comes a time when blades would outperform shovels IMO. I guess though that in the cases where the player would benefit from the blades they do not need any more marketing than seeing what some of the top players in the world play.




    Skill is skill. If the reasoning for playing blades is superior ball striking then those players should be skilled enough to adapt to less demanding clubs.



    As for the lack of consistent distance control in GI irons, that is a myth that has been busted many times. If someone plays blades because they are a good ball striker, but gets "fairway jumpers" with GI clubs, then they are not as proficient as they think at their ball striking. If GI clubs were really capable of 20 yard jumpers, how would they not fail USGA cor tests?




    This myth is almost always “busted” by the guys who don’t have the abilities required to play small heads. If skill is skill and GI irons are superior then why do so many lower HC and professionals play what they play? Your argument plays as justification for what you use. I do not have to justify or theorize my point because it can be seen in hard data what professionals play. If the GI offered the performance they needed it would be a gold mine for OME marketing! Obviously they don’t perform the same. Professionals know it and even my common single digit HC can see what club best lends itself to characteristics on the course. High and straight ...GI hard to beat. Low cut...GI easy to beat.

    Not arguing...just stating the absolute obvious.




    You realize almost 80% of tour professionals play cavity backs don’t you?
  • dubbelbogeydubbelbogey Members Posts: 452 ✭✭✭✭
    edited Jul 23, 2018 #83
    I went through a personal experiment a few years back where I tracked some basic stats (FIR, GIR - though I know those aren't perfect). This coincided with me rotating fairly evenly between a set of old, classic blades (mid 90's era Ram Tour Grinds) a set of Ping CBs and a set of Golfsmith "player's CB" (can't remember the actual model name). This went through about a two season period, and I would say my skill level had pretty much plateaued during this time (I was about a 6 hcp at the time). All sets were fit to me for length and lie.



    In the end, I saw essentially no correlation between scoring averages and which iron sets I was using.



    Was this perfect, scientific experiment that one would say is conclusive? Not really. All sorts of experimental "issues" and biases (including personal biases) could have contributed to these results. But whatever the case may be, I didn't find a compelling reason to choose one set over another.



    In full disclosure, I will say this that my iron sets have always been 5-PW, with two hybrids (19* and 22*) taking the place of long irons. For this sort of mid-to-low iron makeup, how much difference does club design make?
  • BiggErnBiggErn Members Posts: 2,655 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    MelloYello wrote:
    Remember, the more arguing there is about something, the more inconsequential it's likely to be in real life.



    When there isn't actual data to prove something definitively, opinions tend to dominate and you see a mass debate which generally splits 50/50 on the basis of overly-simplistic generalizations.



    So I think there's a point to be made that it's a toss up for most golfers. I would say that amongst mid-handicappers, scoring is more a function of other things like how they're driving and putting. What kind of 5-iron the 15- or 20-handicapper is playing tends to be pretty irrelevant. The most critical irons tend to be the shorter ones where you can see big swings depending on the outcome. That's offset by the fact short irons are where you see the least difference amongst club designs.



    That said, I do find it kind of intriguing how a good many people report carding their personal bests with blades, as if maybe you're more likely to get in the zone with those kinds of clubs. That could easily be BS, but there might be something to it. I know for me, that was true. Maybe it was random. Maybe it wasn't.



    I know that for me though, my score is not that affected by what irons I play. Driving, short game and putting tend to dominate.



    For pretty much any short I hit with a blade, there's usually a way it could've been done with some kind of CB. That said, blades seem to have less "bias" so it's not surprising they tend to be preferred by folks who imagine being creative as opposed to trying to hit the same shot every time (a la Zach Johnson).




    Lol. Yea it’s about creativity. I’m gonna toe this 7 iron and come up 20 yards short on purpose. That is creative. The only bias a CB offers is getting the most out of a slightly mishit shot. If score isn’t dictated by the irons you play then your scores must be really bad or you must be really good but I’d have to see the dime size wear spot on the middle of your iron faces to know which.
  • pinestreetgolfpinestreetgolf Members Posts: 3,487 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    rxk9fan wrote:


    If skill is skill and GI irons are superior then why do so many lower HC and professionals play what they play?




    As about a 1-3 cap, I'm closer to a 15 cap statistically than I am to a touring professional (as you cut strokes, strokes get harder to cut). Why do you guys always lump "touring professionals" with "low HC" players? Its like lumping a guy who starts for his state championship basketball team in New England with somebody in the NBA. Those two class of players are absolutely worlds apart. There's no comparison.



    Its really weird reading in other threads that "feel players" can just "hit shots" that go high, low, etc... then the same guys are in this thread telling us they need a certain type of iron to hit those shots. Just feel them dude!
    Ping g30 driver, various shafts
    Adams tight lies 3 wood
    rest is up for debate
  • lenman73lenman73 Members Posts: 826 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have blades, a combo set, cb's and full blown shovels. I can tell you for sure since I just did it yesterday, I can play to my average with any set I choose that day. It don't matter what kind, if I hit it on the screws, it goes the distance I want. If I miss hit it, and there is varying degrees, but it don't matter what club it is, the shot didnt go off as planned. I can do it all, short, long, left , right. I can also have miss hits end up not too bad with all clubs. For myself it comes down to what you are comfortable with. Even as a mid capper, I like looking down at a smaller head better than I do a shovel. I know others are the opposite. Doesn't bother me in the least.
  • HiSpeed48HiSpeed48 Members Posts: 2,109 ✭✭
    Another thread derailed into a Blades vs GI debate by the anti-blade crusaders
    Titleist 910D2 9.5* Tour Issue
    TEE XCG7 15*
    Srixon Z545 4-PW
    Vokey SM6 46* 50* 54* 58*
    John Byron DaleHead 2
  • BiggErnBiggErn Members Posts: 2,655 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    HiSpeed48 wrote:
    Another thread derailed into a Blades vs GI debate by the anti-blade crusaders






    Nobody is anti blade. There are anti CB guys who who rewrite physics and use delusion to try and justify things.
  • MelloYelloMelloYello Upstate, SCMembers Posts: 3,545 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    I do think this is one of the few really sad elements of GolfWRX.



    The fact a few trolls come into these threads ruins it for the rest of us.



    Sadly, I don't think there's anything to be done about it. It's just ironic considering how many folks actually hit MBs around here.
    Driver: TaylorMade M3 (10.5) w. Tensei Pro Orange
    3w: TaylorMade '07 Burner
    5w: Nike SQ II
    Irons: Titleist 716 CB (4-Pw)
    Wedges: Vokey SM6 52-F / 56-F / 60-S
    Putter: Scotty Cameron Newport 2 Select
  • HiSpeed48HiSpeed48 Members Posts: 2,109 ✭✭
    chisag wrote:

    HiSpeed48 wrote:


    Another thread derailed into a Blades vs GI debate by the anti-blade crusaders




    ... The sound of one hand clapping. It takes two to tango. Only the zealots do not see this is equally divided among both camps.




    It was a thread about blades



    Please point out a CB or GI thread that was derailed by blade-users
    Titleist 910D2 9.5* Tour Issue
    TEE XCG7 15*
    Srixon Z545 4-PW
    Vokey SM6 46* 50* 54* 58*
    John Byron DaleHead 2
  • pinestreetgolfpinestreetgolf Members Posts: 3,487 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    HiSpeed48 wrote:


    It was a thread about blades



    Please point out a CB or GI thread that was derailed by blade-users




    No, it was a thread asking what the forum thought about the future of blades.



    And the answer is pretty clear - its dismal, given current retail outlets and market share, especially compared to what once was.



    Nobody makes threads about the outlook of GI irons because its obvious.



    The thread wasn't "de-railed", you guys didn't get the answer you wanted. Blades are fine. Nobody cares what you play. But if you ask any group of reasonably plugged-in golfers about the future of blades you'll get the same answer. Most of the time you find them at yard sales next to Ataris and VHS machines.
    Ping g30 driver, various shafts
    Adams tight lies 3 wood
    rest is up for debate
This discussion has been closed.