Anyone think playing too fast is actually in poor etiquette?

[Denny100]

5 minutes ago, sui generis said:

How dare the peasantry interrupt Sir Scratch's morning!

"Off with their heads." 🙄

What does that even mean?

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

19 minutes ago, Denny100 said:

What does that even mean?

It’s just a joke. He’s saying you shot a 72. And the guys behind you are the “peasants”. So off with there heads cause they bothered you is what he is saying. 

[Denny100]

27 minutes ago, I'_rather_be_golfing said:

It’s just a joke. He’s saying you shot a 72. And the guys behind you are the “peasants”. So off with there heads cause they bothered you is what he is saying. 

 

The original point of the thread is discussing whether overly fast playing is in poor etiquette.

 

Whether the group were OVERLY fast is neither here not there. NEEDLESSLY fast when theres nowhere to go, yes.

 

If this becomes a trend and the only way to have a game is to pick up on 5 holes, mess around and harrass people, you can count me out. I dont want to be part of such a miserable existence.

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

1 minute ago, Denny100 said:

 

The original point of the thread is discussing whether overly fast playing is in poor etiquette.

 

Whether the group were OVERLY fast is neither here not there. NEEDLESSLY fast when theres nowhere to go, yes.

 

If this becomes a trend and the only way to have a game is to pick up on 5 holes, mess around and harrass people, you can count me out. I dont want to be part of such a miserable existence.

I think you are overreacting. I highly doubt this type of situations happens very often. I get it you are ranting about a bad experience. But stuff like this happens. I doubt you will stop playing over some nonsense. 

[ThinkingPlus]

47 minutes ago, Denny100 said:

 

The original point of the thread is discussing whether overly fast playing is in poor etiquette.

 

Whether the group were OVERLY fast is neither here not there. NEEDLESSLY fast when theres nowhere to go, yes.

 

If this becomes a trend and the only way to have a game is to pick up on 5 holes, mess around and harrass people, you can count me out. I dont want to be part of such a miserable existence.

You will not find much sympathy with this crowd. The rabbits value pace of play more than excellence of play. Everyone can play fast, but not everyone can play well. It is the way of the world these days.

[Denny100]

7 hours ago, ThinkingPlus said:

You will not find much sympathy with this crowd. The rabbits value pace of play more than excellence of play. Everyone can play fast, but not everyone can play well. It is the way of the world these days.

 

I think the game is moving this way to be honest.

 

Its oversubscribed. You try and book a tee time, within a minute of the sheet opening, every time has gone except those that dont offer enough daylight to finish.

 

Most competitions are formats that encourage people not to play properly, like stablefords and scrambles where someone puts one OB or into the water and they just pick up and move to the next hole.

 

The whole game has become a herd you round like cattle experience where the sole objective is to get the whole thing done as fast as possible regardless of score, regardless of what state people leave the course in, and regardless of the demographics and skills of the people on the course.

 

Inconsiderate play is almost always overly fast play. If people are taking 4+ hours to finish their rounds, in my experience its not because theyre reading putts from 4 different angles and taking 5 practice swings a hole.

 

Its because

 

a) theyre not very good to begin with and dont put much time into it

b) theyre playing in summer on a hot day thats 25-30 or more degrees celsius

c) the game is hard

d) theyre probably nervous of losing position on the course the moment they hit one bad ball.

 

Ive hardly ever seen anyone being deliberately slow.

 

I get that some people are SLOWER, as in, theyre a little bit more deliberate, god forbid they might think about what club to hit or actually aim somewhere rather than just smack it. I get that some people might have a preshot routine that again, god forbid might be longer than three seconds and it might take 10-15 (oh the humanity of it).

 

But most of the time, youre out in great scenery playing a game you supposedly are there to enjoy.

 

NO ONE IS EVER SUGGESTING TREAT IT LIKE ITS THE PGA TOUR.

 

But the way some people conduct themselves is absolutely ridiculous, blasting away without a care in the world as to what theyre shooting, where theyre shooting, how are you supposed to keep up with people doing this? to keep them happy because theyve got some right to run right through you, do the same yourself just to please them???

 

No thank you.

Edited February 6, 2023 by Denny100

[Greenie]

I'm curious Denny100. How long does it take your foursome to play an average round of golf?

[Denny100]

22 minutes ago, Greenie said:

I'm curious Denny100. How long does it take your foursome to play an average round of golf?

 

Id say ballpark figure, 4 hours.

 

Id say this is a pretty standard time to complete a round as a fourball.

 

Im also talking about weekends here like a saturday. If its midweek and I happen to not be working, chances are course is a little quieter and theres not the need to play in a fourball. The fourballs are only there so maximum number of people can be utilising the course when busy. Id prefer a 3 ball anyday).

 

The format will also have an impact. If its medal play, its going to be slower. If its betterball, its going to be quicker.

 

 

[MelloYello]

When it comes to slow play, the answer is to join a private club where members are both better at the game as well as more considerate to the pace-of-play topic. Members are also far more likely to care about the groups behind them. 

 

If you're not willing to make the financial commitment to join a private club you might as well suck it up and take what's given to you. Choice is yours. Golf was, is and forever will be an expensive game for people with an appreciable amount of disposable income. There are many alternative hobbies, some cheaper and some more expensive. 

 

 

As far as playing too-fast...

 

I definitely agree there are people who prioritize pace over everything else and they will forever find themselves blocked by some group ahead. Again, if you expect to play through, join a private club where that'll happen. A busy public course isn't going to deliver the "faster players play thru" option because of the crowded nature of the course. 

 

As far as how "seriously" someone takes their scoring effort, I don't care at all. That's up to them. 

[Denny100]

4 minutes ago, MelloYello said:

When it comes to slow play, the answer is to join a private club where members are both better at the game as well as more considerate to the pace-of-play topic. Members are also far more likely to care about the groups behind them. 

 

If you're not willing to make the financial commitment to join a private club you might as well suck it up and take what's given to you. Choice is yours. Golf was, is and forever will be an expensive game for people with an appreciable amount of disposable income. There are many alternative hobbies, some cheaper and some more expensive. 

 

 

As far as playing too-fast...

 

I definitely agree there are people who prioritize pace over everything else and they will forever find themselves blocked by some group ahead. Again, if you expect to play through, join a private club where that'll happen. A busy public course isn't going to deliver the "faster players play thru" option because of the crowded nature of the course. 

 

As far as how "seriously" someone takes their scoring effort, I don't care at all. That's up to them. 

 

This is a private club (albeit not a very good one). Its got its fair share of people from your second paragraph, the ONLY goal is speed.

 

Despite being a private club, every single available slot on a weekend day will be booked within a minute. Not exaggerating, one minute. 4 balls all day non stop.

 

 

[MelloYello]

10 minutes ago, Denny100 said:

 

This is a private club (albeit not a very good one). Its got its fair share of people from your second paragraph, the ONLY goal is speed.

 

Despite being a private club, every single available slot on a weekend day will be booked within a minute. Not exaggerating, one minute. 4 balls all day non stop.

 

 

 

Then I'd find a new hobby or move some place where it's better. 

 

What can you do? 

[david.c.w]

@Denny100

 

I agree with your overall sentiment.  I am not going to let someone though just to wait on them on the next hole.  A full course is a full course.  Sounds like the guys behind you were not the kind of people you would share a pint with after the round.  People are people, and not all of them are great.

 

That being said, you are coming off like a person I would not want to share a pint with either.  No one cares how good you are or how bad they are.  In the words of John Cusak in Say Anything, "You must chill!!!"

[Denny100]

20 minutes ago, MelloYello said:

 

Then I'd find a new hobby or move some place where it's better. 

 

What can you do? 

 

 

Im so heavily invested into golf id obviously like to keep playing, i live in an area where there arent all that many options and if youre prepared to pay a substantial amount of money then yes, you get the rewards for that, otherwise I guess you are left with the place thats busy for a reason, its cheaper.

 

I also wouldnt be opposed to going somewhere even cheaper. If youre going to stand there on a conveyor belt of fourballs all day with the potential to have people who need anger management behind you all day, you might as well pay as little as possible for the "privelege" rather than a decent amount of money for a course thats still pretty shabby and busy anyway.

 

[MelloYello]

1 minute ago, Denny100 said:

 

 

Im so heavily invested into golf id obviously like to keep playing, i live in an area where there arent all that many options and if youre prepared to pay a substantial amount of money then yes, you get the rewards for that, otherwise I guess you are left with the place thats busy for a reason, its cheaper.

 

I also wouldnt be opposed to going somewhere even cheaper. If youre going to stand there on a conveyor belt of fourballs all day with the potential to have people who need anger management behind you all day, you might as well pay as little as possible for the "privelege" rather than a decent amount of money for a course thats still pretty shabby and busy anyway.

 

 

If you're that concerned about it I'd start contemplating an adjust to my life so that I could join somewhere private.

 

Maybe think about moving? With everyone working from home here in the US, things are pretty flexible. Many people aren't even in the same state as their employer. Folks younger and younger are getting golf into their schedule multiple times a week. 

 

There are also many options: mornings, evenings, weekends, etc. Look at your options and find what's realistically available to you and what you can work towards. Golf is not promised to anyone. Could be you're going to have to pay up or make big changes to get what you want. 

 

I don't know what to tell you. 

[david.c.w]

13 minutes ago, Denny100 said:

 

 

Im so heavily invested into golf id obviously like to keep playing, i live in an area where there arent all that many options and if youre prepared to pay a substantial amount of money then yes, you get the rewards for that, otherwise I guess you are left with the place thats busy for a reason, its cheaper.

 

I also wouldnt be opposed to going somewhere even cheaper. If youre going to stand there on a conveyor belt of fourballs all day with the potential to have people who need anger management behind you all day, you might as well pay as little as possible for the "privelege" rather than a decent amount of money for a course thats still pretty shabby and busy anyway.

 

 

You are projecting an attitude of "Golf for me but not for thee".

 

 

 

 

[joj]

On 2/4/2023 at 1:36 PM, Denny100 said:

Is there seriously any need to be so triggered over a game of golf?

It seems that you are the one who has been triggered. The only advice I can offer is to value your own peace of mind above all else. Just smile and let them through. I think your day, and possibly week, might be a little better. 

 

When I’m driving 65mph in a 55 zone and someone comes up on my tail. I just let them pass. I find that my day goes better not dwelling on the insanity of others, and above that, not trying to play God and teach them a lesson myself. Some people are beyond help, just let them go terrorize someone else and move on with your life. 

[Denny100]

5 minutes ago, david.c.w said:

 

You are projecting an attitude of "Golf for me but not for thee".

 

 

 

 

 

If you choose to interpret it that way then fine, im really not.

[Greenie]

25 minutes ago, Denny100 said:

 

This is a private club (albeit not a very good one). Its got its fair share of people from your second paragraph, the ONLY goal is speed.

 

Despite being a private club, every single available slot on a weekend day will be booked within a minute. Not exaggerating, one minute. 4 balls all day non stop.

 

 

 

 

First I'll say the way the people behind you acted was poor etiquette. From what you have said players in your group can put the ball out there a decent distance,cut corners,etc. I understand having to wait a little longer for the group ahead to clear out may give the appearance that your group is falling behind. I get it. Before I judge someone that may be playing slow I certainly watch them a few holes. Also a full course is a full course and with no where to go nothing can be done. We all run into those situations when a course is slow and some idiot hits into you or acts like your group are the problem. 

 

Moving on. IMO your group playing at four hours is borderline slow. I give any foursome four hrs. to play a round but over that I consider it slow play. My regular foursome of three 80's shooters and one 100 shooter get done in 3:30 unless we are held up. You mention you are a very good player and I assume you play with good players. My group is taking quite a few more strokes than yours and we are getting  done 30 mins. quicker than your group. What are you guys doing? As you say it isn't the TOUR. 

 

 

[Denny100]

6 minutes ago, Greenie said:

 

 

First I'll say the way the people behind you acted was poor etiquette. From what you have said players in your group can put the ball out there a decent distance,cut corners,etc. I understand having to wait a little longer for the group ahead to clear out may give the appearance that your group is falling behind. I get it. Before I judge someone that may be playing slow I certainly watch them a few holes. Also a full course is a full course and with no where to go nothing can be done. We all run into those situations when a course is slow and some idiot hits into you or acts like your group are the problem. 

 

Moving on. IMO your group playing at four hours is borderline slow. I give any foursome four hrs. to play a round but over that I consider it slow play. My regular foursome of three 80's shooters and one 100 shooter get done in 3:30 unless we are held up. You mention you are a very good player and I assume you play with good players. My group is taking quite a few more strokes than yours and we are getting  done 30 mins. quicker than your group. What are you guys doing? As you say it isn't the TOUR. 

 

 

 

I dont really think im doing anything? I do have playing partners of equivalent ability, on this particular day it was two of us of similar ability and two who were higher handicappers. The higher handicappers teed off first as you would expect so we could wait for areas to clear.

 

6,500 yards worth of course in 4 hours seems pretty normal to me? I mean i really dont know what to suggest and maybe its best to just end the discussion, because the root of everything always comes back to "do whatever the people pushing fastest" want to do.

 

They have nowhere to go, we have nowhere to go, i dont know why people dont just accept golf is going to take a while. JUst expecting to fly round in 3-3.5 hours especially on a weekend is not realistic, and me bringing up standard of play IS necessary too, because everyone in the world would go faster if they wanted to. I could grab a club and hit the ball in two seconds. I could hit a putt in one second, miss and go oh well who cares and tap it in and so could everyone else, but id like to think most people with some thought pattern think there is a balance between taking your time enough that you can do your best, without going stupidly over the top and taking forever, but not going the other way either where you flail around all day not caring if you miss putts or chips or generally play rubbish.

 

So obviously bringing up scoring is relevant too.

 

[Denny100]

46 minutes ago, Greenie said:

 

 

First I'll say the way the people behind you acted was poor etiquette. From what you have said players in your group can put the ball out there a decent distance,cut corners,etc. I understand having to wait a little longer for the group ahead to clear out may give the appearance that your group is falling behind. I get it. Before I judge someone that may be playing slow I certainly watch them a few holes. Also a full course is a full course and with no where to go nothing can be done. We all run into those situations when a course is slow and some idiot hits into you or acts like your group are the problem. 

 

Moving on. IMO your group playing at four hours is borderline slow. I give any foursome four hrs. to play a round but over that I consider it slow play. My regular foursome of three 80's shooters and one 100 shooter get done in 3:30 unless we are held up. You mention you are a very good player and I assume you play with good players. My group is taking quite a few more strokes than yours and we are getting  done 30 mins. quicker than your group. What are you guys doing? As you say it isn't the TOUR. 

 

 

 

Your example makes no sense though.

 

I could have a putt from 10 feet which i dont read, i dont mark, and i dont clean the ball, which i hit in one second as soon as i arrive on the green, i miss, and then i take one second to knock it in the hole from 1 foot. so the whole routine of not caring and whack and walk took me like 3 seconds.

 

I could mark the ball, wipe it on my towel as im reading a putt from one angle, replace the ball, take two practice strokes beside the ball, and then putt, and ball goes in.

 

Ive taken one stroke, and that routine has taken me 15 seconds. Five times longer than you who has hit it twice. Youve hit the ball more times and still done it quicker, and its obvious that example a) is going to be quicker than example b)

 

Are you seriously telling me that marking a ball and replacing it, and making two practice strokes is excessive?

 

What about if you tap your tee shot down a fairway because you cant reach anything, and then you tap it again because you cant reach the green, then you tap it again somewhere in the vicinity of the green, then you chip it with a wedge because hey, it aint the tour right, and i cant chip right, so it might go near the hole but hey, it might not who cares....

 

Then youre obviously going to be going miles quicker than someone else.

 

I could do that too. Whats to enjoy about that?

 

We are talking about things like bushnelling a pin, waiting for landing areas to clear, raking a bunker PROPERLY etc etc

 

And i say all this whilst saying we DIDNT LOSE A HOLE.

 

We could have easily just smacked up into the group in front by playing whack and walk and shouted at them couldnt we. We could have forced them to finish 15 mins faster by tanking our own rounds couldnt we, just getting up to the ball and hitting it and meh, itll go somewhere.

 

Whats stopping us standing on a tee and shouting "HEY, YOU IN FRONT, WE CAN HIT IT 50 YARDS PAST YOU SO MOVE OUT OF THE WAY"?? Because we CAN do this, so why isnt it legitimate for us to yell this at the people in front then?

 

But we are playing golf so we obviously didnt.

 

Im just baffled by the whole scene around golf.

Edited February 6, 2023 by Denny100

[MelloYello]

35 minutes ago, Denny100 said:

 

Your example makes no sense though.

 

I could have a putt from 10 feet which i dont read, i dont mark, and i dont clean the ball, which i hit in one second as soon as i arrive on the green, i miss, and then i take one second to knock it in the hole from 1 foot. so the whole routine of not caring and whack and walk took me like 3 seconds.

 

I could mark the ball, wipe it on my towel as im reading a putt from one angle, replace the ball, take two practice strokes beside the ball, and then putt, and ball goes in.

 

Ive taken one stroke, and that routine has taken me 15 seconds. Five times longer than you who has hit it twice. Youve hit the ball more times and still done it quicker, and its obvious that example a) is going to be quicker than example b)

 

Are you seriously telling me that marking a ball and replacing it, and making two practice strokes is excessive?

 

What about if you tap your tee shot down a fairway because you cant reach anything, and then you tap it again because you cant reach the green, then you tap it again somewhere in the vicinity of the green, then you chip it with a wedge because hey, it aint the tour right, and i cant chip right, so it might go near the hole but hey, it might not who cares....

 

Then youre obviously going to be going miles quicker than someone else.

 

I could do that too. Whats to enjoy about that?

 

We are talking about things like bushnelling a pin, waiting for landing areas to clear, raking a bunker PROPERLY etc etc

 

And i say all this whilst saying we DIDNT LOSE A HOLE.

 

We could have easily just smacked up into the group in front by playing whack and walk and shouted at them couldnt we. We could have forced them to finish 15 mins faster by tanking our own rounds couldnt we, just getting up to the ball and hitting it and meh, itll go somewhere.

 

Whats stopping us standing on a tee and shouting "HEY, YOU IN FRONT, WE CAN HIT IT 50 YARDS PAST YOU SO MOVE OUT OF THE WAY"?? Because we CAN do this, so why isnt it legitimate for us to yell this at the people in front then?

 

But we are playing golf so we obviously didnt.

 

Im just baffled by the whole scene around golf.

 

I would not recommend arguing about P.o.P. on this website. 

 

The majority of people seem to play very fast and there's an unrealistic expectation of 3 hours being normal, which any actual round at a public course on the weekend would prove utterly insane. 

 

I'm a scratch player intimately familiar with my home course and it still takes every bit of 1.5 hrs to walk each 9 while playing casual golf by myself. If I walk 18 in 3.5 hours that's a really quick round for me. 

 

4-hrs would be the expectation among a 4some on the weekend. 

 

At a public course around here on a weekend it'd take 4.5-hrs at least. I play in a weekday work league at that same public course where 9-holes sometimes takes the higher-handicaps 2.5 or even 3 hrs (for 9 holes!). 

 

People on WRX seem not to live in the same universe talking about P.o.P. 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by MelloYello

[klebs01]

14 hours ago, ThinkingPlus said:

You will not find much sympathy with this crowd. The rabbits value pace of play more than excellence of play. Everyone can play fast, but not everyone can play well. It is the way of the world these days.

Excellence of play and fast pace are not mutually exclusive. Most people would benefit more from speeding up than slowing down. 

[ThinkingPlus]

4 minutes ago, klebs01 said:

Excellence of play and fast pace are not mutually exclusive. Most people would benefit more from speeding up than slowing down. 

Possible certainly, but not probable. Most people would benefit from lessons.

[jholz]

11 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Possible certainly, but not probable. Most people would benefit from lessons.

 

Now that's a response. We could all learn something here.

[Pepperturbo]

This past weekend encountered a guy trying to play a lot faster...it was sad.  The field was filled, he could go nowhere, so he was his own worst enemy, as he kept himself in a constant state of turmoil.  

[Denny100]

44 minutes ago, klebs01 said:

Excellence of play and fast pace are not mutually exclusive. Most people would benefit more from speeding up than slowing down. 

 

People will improve firstly if they WANT to improve. I dont see evidence certain people want to improve, particularly with reference to the kind of people im discussing in this thread.

 

You need lessons, a plan of improvement, some measurable goals and to be thoughtful.

[Pepperturbo]

1 hour ago, klebs01 said:

Most people would benefit more from speeding up than slowing down. 

I disagree.  It's a very individual/mental thing, NOT something someone can abruptly do because they were told to speed up.  Because a person plays fast does NOT mean they play well.  Think about what's lacking, so pace of play gets them the best results. 

 

I've seen it where a group is put on the clock, told to speed up or else, and a few in the group start playing worse than before.  Typically, their reason is they couldn't gather needed information, and think about all the issues tied to executing a shot, faster.

 

I've studied behavior modification in the work place for years, also as it related to job, and sports activities such as close quarter combat shooting under pressure of a clock.  How reactive is a person to conditions, do they have to think about issues before reacting in a scenario, same goes for playing golf.  The golf swing has a lot of variables that need to come together before the club head can hit the ball; that doesn't take into account the influences of actual tee group pace of play. 

 

Touring pro finds his ball in the rough, in an odd spot.  He takes considerably longer to identify conditions, and his shot plan, than when he's in the fairway.

 

Each of us is different.  My dyslexic brain works fast, can take in a lot of data and process/conclude quickly, and still score; while others may be  slower or faster, and some need more data.  This is WHY there is NO answer for controlling pace of play.

 

A person's pace of play is based mostly on how fast their brain is able to do things.  It's all mental thing.  Our minds are like computer processors, some have fast processors, others slower processors, like an XP's processing data, as opposed to Intel i5.  A lot of data bogs them down, assessing conditions, assorted fears, thinking about swing issues, issues surrounding setup, etc. takes time, all that constitutes a person's pace of play.

Edited February 6, 2023 by Pepperturbo

[StudentGolfer4]

46 minutes ago, Denny100 said:

 

People will improve firstly if they WANT to improve. I dont see evidence certain people want to improve, particularly with reference to the kind of people im discussing in this thread.

 

You need lessons, a plan of improvement, some measurable goals and to be thoughtful.

You seem to think everyone’s goal is to get as good as possible and grind out every shot. That’s not what everyone plays golf for. It’s possible that people don’t care all that much to improve. And that’s fine too! 
 

My typical foursomes include guys that played competitively growing up and at some lower level colleges. Handicaps currently range from 1-6. Sure we all want to play better but don’t have any real desire to put in the required time or effort. We all did that for years growing up. Maybe that makes us non serious golfers, I don’t know. 
 

Now we have full time jobs and families. Why does it matter if someone is willing to go to the range after work or spend hundreds on lessons. Go grind on the range to try to get better at a game I enjoy or go to the park with my son. Easy decision every day of the week. 

[Denny100]

17 minutes ago, StudentGolfer4 said:

You seem to think everyone’s goal is to get as good as possible and grind out every shot. That’s not what everyone plays golf for. It’s possible that people don’t care all that much to improve. And that’s fine too! 
 

My typical foursomes include guys that played competitively growing up and at some lower level colleges. Handicaps currently range from 1-6. Sure we all want to play better but don’t have any real desire to put in the required time or effort. We all did that for years growing up. Maybe that makes us non serious golfers, I don’t know. 
 

Now we have full time jobs and families. Why does it matter if someone is willing to go to the range after work or spend hundreds on lessons. Go grind on the range to try to get better at a game I enjoy or go to the park with my son. Easy decision every day of the week. 

 

Its like ive said a lot of times on the thread already, if thats your outlook, its absolutely fine, but you still cant go anywhere on a busy saturday, so whether youre trying to grind or not in this case, you cant go anywhere, end of story. You need to play at the speed things are going at on the day, and be done with it.

 

As much as i dont have the right to tell people what to do, because you dont care about your score and you go to the park, you dont have the right to push people around and be a nuisance to them either. Its that simple.

[Abh159]

The whole thing is pretty simple to me... If there is at least a hole open in front of you, and the group behind is faster let them play through.