Anyone think playing too fast is actually in poor etiquette?

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='ChipDriver' timestamp='1413494477' post='10301443']
[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1413481839' post='10300147']
[quote name='ChipDriver' timestamp='1413479861' post='10299959']
Here's an example of playing "too fast" IMO. It was at a golf marathon where I was part of the support team. Our player was driven to the ball by 1 cart; his shots were located and layered to the flag by a 2nd guy; and a 3rd guy tended the flag and fixed the ball marks. It was a charity "golf marathon" so speed was at a premium. But it was too fast.

Nevertheless - here's the results:

First player: 3 handicap
# of rounds: 10 = 180 holes
[b]Average time of each round: [u]1 hour, 3 minutes[/u].[/b]
[b]Average score: 74.x[/b]
[b]Distance: white tees ~6,000 yards[/b]

I think 1 hour is way too fast - but it proved what the limits could be at least for good players. By the same token - it seems absolutely absurd that 4 hours is remotely acceptable - even for bad ones. 4.5 is more than enough. More than 4.5 hours...quit and go play tennis!

Seriously - if you believe you [u][b]need [/b][/u]to play in 4+ hours (and there isn't anyone in front of you) maybe you ought to move up a set of tees? For everyone's sake.
[/quote]

In theory, I agree, there is what's called too fast n too slow. But you need to spend some time in SoCA. Maybe it would show you your expectations are not likely across the board. Nobody "[b]needs[/b]"... circumstances, too often, just are. If being heard is desired, people, least on this board, need to see the bigger picture and the middle of the pendulum swing. Not extremes.
[/quote]

Agree - hence my suggestion that while 1 hours is too fast - 4 hours is the other extreme. But like many others here - wishing that POP would go faster, is like me wishing I were 10 years younger. Neither is going to happen in my life time.

In theory it starts with expectations management - but the truth of the matter as far as I'm concerned - is that people in the US have been led to believe that the game is supposed to be slow....so they never try to speed it up to the "middle of the pendulum". They see golf on tv and on the public courses and the private courses as "slow". It's an anomaly when they show an occasional pro player who is playing alone and gets through in less than 2 hours.

Finding an time when you have nobody in front is also a rarity I think for most people...and they only know what they know.

But we can dream.
[/quote]

I dream all the time.

[Forged4ever]

LMAO, then 55 minutes, 42 seconds is unacceptable, lol?

I'm kiddin Pep

I was getting a few pics when you posted yours, lol

I'm the regulars at familiar with Jaacob as a cintributing writer here at WRX and for those not, he is a Pro and proege of Dan Austin, aling with bein a serious Long Baller and in the last few years, a participant in the World Speed Golf Championships. I believe that he finished 5th along with tying the world record for low round of 72 in 55 minutes and 42 seconds.

Oh, and he used SIX CLUBS, LMAO

In addition, he's a Class Gentleman!

Well, have a great weekend my Friends

Golfingly Yours,
Richard

[Forged4ever]

LMAO, then 55 minutes, 42 seconds is unacceptable, lol?

I'm kiddin Pep

I was getting a few pics when you posted yours, lol

I'm sure that the regulars are familiar with Jaacob as a cintributing writer here at WRX and for those not, he is a Pro and proege of Dan Austin, along with bein a serious Long Baller and in the last few years, a participant in the World Speed Golf Championships. I believe that he finished 5th along with tying the world record for low round of 72 in 55 minutes and 42 seconds.

Oh, and he used SIX CLUBS, lol

So, it is possible to play quickly and score, lol

Well, have a nice weekend my Friends,
Richard

[avrag]

To be honest, slow play bothers me on the golf course. Even more so, if somebody in my group is guilty of it, than in those cases when I always have to wait behind a slow group.
But the slow play hysteria on this forum and the extremes of fast play some people proclaim to be normal or desirable has reached a point at which it bothers me even more than slow play on the course.
Yes, I have quit a round due to slow play in SoCal once, after being on the 15th hole after more than 5 hrs (Palos Verdes, to name the course), and it is unacceptable. Maybe it is experiences like this, which get people all riled up. I can understand that.
But I really wonder what the problem is for all those who cannnot accept 4 hour rounds. If you can't enjoy being in the open air, in an environment which is usually beautiful (= golf course) for four hours, maybe you should think about "playing golf" in simulators from now on. Easy to get through 18 on the world's most famous courses in just under one hour. That should solve whatever problem you have with real golf.

[puttingmatt]

Finishing 18 holes in less than 4 hours lets you get another 18 holes
in on the same day, doubles the fun !!

[Hateto3Putt]

[quote name='puttingmatt' timestamp='1413588042' post='10307149']
Finishing 18 holes in less than 4 hours lets you get another 18 holes
in on the same day, doubles the fun !!
[/quote]

Totally agree.

When I'm on the golf course, I want to be...wait for it......









PLAYING GOLF.

[Startzel]

[quote name='ChipDriver' timestamp='1413495814' post='10301545']
[quote name='vbb' timestamp='1413493689' post='10301393']
[quote name='ChipDriver' timestamp='1413479861' post='10299959']
Here's an example of playing "too fast" IMO. It was at a golf marathon where I was part of the support team. Our player was driven to the ball by 1 cart; his shots were located and layered to the flag by a 2nd guy; and a 3rd guy tended the flag and fixed the ball marks. It was a charity "golf marathon" so speed was at a premium. But it was too fast.

Nevertheless - here's the results:

First player: 3 handicap
# of rounds: 10 = 180 holes
[b]Average time of each round: [u]1 hour, 3 minutes[/u].[/b]
[b]Average score: 74.x[/b]
[b]Distance: white tees ~6,000 yards[/b]

I think 1 hour is way too fast - but it proved what the limits could be at least for good players. By the same token - it seems absolutely absurd that 4 hours is remotely acceptable - even for bad ones. 4.5 is more than enough. More than 4.5 hours...quit and go play tennis!

Seriously - if you believe you need to play in 4+ hours (and there isn't anyone in front of you) maybe you ought to move up a set of tees? For everyone's sake.
[/quote]

Yeah, in speed golf where you're trying to get in as many holes as possible, that's a different scenario. I'm not trying to break any time records when I play... but I do enjoy the feeling and sense of accomplishment when I can get in a 9 in an hour, or a round in under 2:30. I'm never trying to sacrifice scoring for speed. If I see something weird in the line of my putt, I'll take the extra time to read it again, or if I have a funky stance or angle, I'll think about where I can safely miss before just firing away. I guess over time I've just developed a sense of trusting my gut with my shots, right or wrong, and going with it. I laser the distance, see where my best "miss" is (long, short, right, whatever) and then I pull the club get my grip set and fire. Compare that to some others that take time tossing grass in the air, checking the wind, taking a few practice swings with one club, deciding on another club, walking back to their bag and grabbing the second club, taking a few more practice swing, then finally hitting, posing over the shot, then finally going to their ball, and we're talking a much longer round.

But again, I try not to rush people along if I can help it. I enjoy playing fast, but I also don't want to be "that guy" either. I think the general feeling is that you can play fast with poor etiquette, but it isn't poor etiquette to play fast. Some thing that playing slow is poor etiquette no matter how "nice" you are about it, and maybe there's something to that.
[/quote]

I'm with you entirely. As I said above - "having nobody in front of you" is probably not what a lot of folks ever see perhaps? My fastest cart rounds were when I was the only idiot out on the course in winter time - with a cart. Made it around in 1:25 ..and I shot 101. Ball was flying so short I couldn't lose it. Fastest time with other players was 1:40 and we had 4 players with their own carts and I had the high score of 81. In both cases I had plenty of time to hit my shots and read greens....it's just that it doesn't take very long.

At places where I play - the early morning times have a POP target of 3:30. We (ranging from 3 handicap to a 14 handicap) often come in faster than that - but here's things that we do that a typical "4+ hour foursome" won't do:

1) get to your ball and be ready to hit. For #1 - if you and me are in the same cart - you drop me off at my short ball - and don't wait for me to hit it....you get going up to your ball. We're both doing our pre shots and I let my shot fly...then start walking towards you farther up the course. Once my ball is off - then all you have to do is line up and hit it. It's entirely possible that your shot is in the air too just as mine is landing. You don't necessarily wait until after I hit before you start your PSR. Then you drive back to pick me up and we motor on together down the course. Moreover the other 2 guys are doing the same thing.

2) chat on the greens and tee boxes. These are the only times (and there are plenty of them) where we go "one at a time"...where everyone else is standing still while someone else is in their whole "process" of hitting.

3) putt out...at least for the 1-2 footers coming back. This is a huge time saver - putt the ball and unless you're a spazz you're going to be within a few feet of the hole. Keep going. I play with a lot of new players who start their "Tiger Woods routine" for every single putt...whether it's 30 feet or from 30 inches. If I'm hosting an outing - I often just give people the putt. "It's good...!" as long as it's within a flag pole length (just kidding).

Anyways - these simple things speed up the game. But they are a MUST in order to get a normal foursome around in 3:30...although I think if everyone did it, the entire POP would improve dramatically. It's got to be a concerted effort - rather than "While We're Young"... campaign alone, they ought to show people on tv HOW to hurry things up, without making you lose your rhythm and tempo with the game.

But I doubt most folks will try it, or don't understand how.
[/quote]

These are good rules but I feel like this is how almost everyone plays. I rarely see a group violating these rules.

[Startzel]

[quote name='Forged4ever' timestamp='1413571851' post='10305985']
LMAO, then 55 minutes, 42 seconds is unacceptable, lol?

I'm kiddin Pep

I was getting a few pics when you posted yours, lol

I'm sure that the regulars are familiar with Jaacob as a cintributing writer here at WRX and for those not, he is a Pro and proege of Dan Austin, along with bein a serious Long Baller and in the last few years, a participant in the World Speed Golf Championships. I believe that he finished 5th along with tying the world record for low round of 72 in 55 minutes and 42 seconds.

Oh, and he used SIX CLUBS, lol

So, it is possible to play quickly and score, lol

Well, have a nice weekend my Friends,
Richard
[/quote]

In surprised no one has started a thread about how disrespectful he was to put his bag down on the green

[mwmgolfx]

[quote name='vbb' timestamp='1413397739' post='10293647']
[quote name='Startzel' timestamp='1413391640' post='10292843']
[quote name='Hateto3Putt' timestamp='1413390378' post='10292699']
Whew......

Finally, a [s]fast play that will morph into[/s] a slow play thread.
[/quote]

My favorite part is the slow play threads always end up being an excuse for play. "I wouldn't have hit that ball poorly if I had hit my shot 45 seconds earlier!"
[/quote]

I don't know what this is all about, but nowhere in my thread have I a.) complained about slow players, or b.) said slow players are responsible for my bad shots. Maybe rather than preloading your arguments against what is "typically" posted, you respond to what actually was posted. I did not post here trying to disguise this as another complaining about slow play thread.

[quote name='Startzel' timestamp='1413389867' post='10292635']
In your OP you stated pretty much every round you play is fast. Wouldn't reason show that of course your best scores are going to come from playing fast because almost all of your rounds are played that way?

Maybe if you played about 50/50 rounds fast/slow then you could make an argument.
[/quote]
Well about 50/50 of my rounds ARE fast/slow. In my ideal world the course is always empty and I can always play at my own pace. But rarely does that happen. Actually I probably play more 4hr rounds than 3hr rounds, just due to the realities surrounding the course. So it's probably even more of my rounds are around that 4hr pace. I usually play with at least a 3 some, but when I get the quick 9s in, I'm usually out as a single. During the rounds that I play with other people, and especially when it is a crowded day on the course, I've tried to deliberately slow down my pace, spend more time reading putts from all angles, taking a few practice swings... basically because I have the time and there is nowhere to go. And my scores are not any better than the days where I play quickly. I didn't do a full-on scientific study here, but my scores do not seem to be improved by slowing down and doing all of the things I see slower players doing.
[/quote]

Amen brother. I definitely notice the difference between slow rounds and faster ones. I am seriously arthritic and when the rounds go over 4:45, I definitely notice my joints stiffing up and not being as lose. I score the best when its a quick sub-4 hour round because I stay super lose and free.I like to play fast but that's my general nature, I adapt to whatever. But I absolutely hate 5+ rounds and 6+ are a real bear. That's why I generally don't play much in tournaments any longer. The rounds are just too long for the most part.But like others on the thread, I hate the "pace timed rounds". If a group is several holes behind the group in front, even if its on pace, its going to be a slow day. i find it rarely that we actually finish at the "official timed pace" but usually 10-20 later which the rangers think is fine. But it adds up during the day and the later rounds are slower and slower, unfortunately.

[rsj1360]

Ways in which speedsters have bad etiquette:[list=1]
[*]Standing a couple of feet away from you or the hole with flag in hand while you are trying to putt out - particularly when everyone else is in the hole. Very distracting.
[*]When you are last to tee off and they race down the fairway (assuming you are all walking) before you get your driver back in your bag. This minimizes any chance for talking with each other as you walk down the fairway.
[*]Being in front of you when it is your turn to hit. This actually depends on how confident of a golfer you are. It doesn't bother me if someone is well off to the side, but some people have literally no clue where their next shot may end up and if anyone is anywhere in front of them it is likely to distract them and/or make them nervous.
[*]Continuing with fast play tactics when the course is full in front of them. This just means that they will be waiting on every shot and likely bothering the group in front. They could slow down their routine just slightly to alleviate this.
[/list]
I'll edit this later if more examples pop into my head.

[finalist]

[quote name='Soloman1' timestamp='1413436630' post='10297643']
If a foursome takes 90 strokes each a round, that's 360 shots. If the interval between their shots is only 20 seconds, they take120 minutes, or 2 hours just to hit, not even counting the walk/ride/sprint between shots. Five minutes per hole maneuvering around is another 90 minutes.

Starting times aren't even 5 minutes apart, so how can four people play in under 3.5 hours? Time warp?

The last time I was in the US, I played with some old friends who ran around the course, cursing that they couldn't finish in under 3.5 hours. They were miserable the whole time. And what did they do after the panic, breakneck speed round?

They waited for 30 minutes to get into a restaurant to eat a leisurely meal for another hour and a half, then went home and sat on the couch to watch a recorded golf tournament.

People are strange. You could die from a heart attack on the way home, relax a little and enjoy your potentially last round . . .
[/quote]

Lol, so true. There are a lot of old guys that play golf just to be able to sit around for hours in the club house afterwards and brag about how fast they finished... Never mentioning if they actually enjoyed the round.

Personally, I like 4:15. Quicker than tournaments and peak times, but long enough to enjoy the scene, read some putts and just escape for a chunk of the day.

[Hateto3Putt]

[quote name='rsj1360' timestamp='1413900936' post='10325237']
Ways in which speedsters have bad etiquette:[list=1]
[*]Standing a couple of feet away from you or the hole with flag in hand while you are trying to putt out - particularly when everyone else is in the hole. Very distracting.
[*]When you are last to tee off and they race down the fairway (assuming you are all walking) before you get your driver back in your bag. This minimizes any chance for talking with each other as you walk down the fairway.
[*]Being in front of you when it is your turn to hit. This actually depends on how confident of a golfer you are. It doesn't bother me if someone is well off to the side, but some people have literally no clue where their next shot may end up and if anyone is anywhere in front of them it is likely to distract them and/or make them nervous.
[*]Continuing with fast play tactics when the course is full in front of them. This just means that they will be waiting on every shot and likely bothering the group in front. They could slow down their routine just slightly to alleviate this.
[/list]
I'll edit this later if more examples pop into my head.
[/quote]

Ways in which slowsters have bad etiquette.[list=1]
[*]Waiting until it's their turn before even considering reading their first putt, then, lining up their second and then third putt from every angle, then marking and replacing the ball so that the line on the ball matches perfectly to their intended putt line before taking their 4 practice putt swipes, missing, then repeating the same scenario. Then marking the one footer rather than tapping in because they are not away.
[*]Being the last to tee off (because of four putting the previous hole) and then taking 6 slow practice swings, tossing grass to determine wind speed, closing eyes to visualize shot, then hovering over ball for 30 seconds before swinging. This cause the other folks in group to feel rushed because all these methodical, slow habits are causing the groups behind you to get up your butt and the time has got to be made up somewhere.
[*]Not being ready to hit when it's their turn, forcing others on the group to begin walking while the offender tosses grass, pulls club, checks distance, changes club, checks wind again, takes 6 practice swings, closes eyes to visualize shot. While this is going on, the conscience players in group can be ahead and off to the side, while the methodical slowpoke repeats this routine religiously.
[*]Continuing these slow play tactics oblivious to the fact that the course is stacking up behind them. This just means that the courteous players in their group will continue to have to hustle which causes Slo Joe to become "nervous" and slow down even more . If the slow offender would do just a few thing to speed up his play (or even become just a bit more aware of his surroundings) the backlog could be alleviated.
[/list]
Unfortunately, there are no self admitted slow players, it's just the rest of the players are going to fast.

[rsj1360]

[quote name='Hateto3Putt' timestamp='1413902893' post='10325447']
[quote name='rsj1360' timestamp='1413900936' post='10325237']
Ways in which speedsters have bad etiquette:[list=1]
[*]Standing a couple of feet away from you or the hole with flag in hand while you are trying to putt out - particularly when everyone else is in the hole. Very distracting.
[*]When you are last to tee off and they race down the fairway (assuming you are all walking) before you get your driver back in your bag. This minimizes any chance for talking with each other as you walk down the fairway.
[*]Being in front of you when it is your turn to hit. This actually depends on how confident of a golfer you are. It doesn't bother me if someone is well off to the side, but some people have literally no clue where their next shot may end up and if anyone is anywhere in front of them it is likely to distract them and/or make them nervous.
[*]Continuing with fast play tactics when the course is full in front of them. This just means that they will be waiting on every shot and likely bothering the group in front. They could slow down their routine just slightly to alleviate this.
[/list]
I'll edit this later if more examples pop into my head.
[/quote]

Ways in which slowsters have bad etiquette.[list=1]
[*]Waiting until it's their turn before even considering reading their first putt, then, lining up their second and then third putt from every angle, then marking and replacing the ball so that the line on the ball matches perfectly to their intended putt line before taking their 4 practice putt swipes, missing, then repeating the same scenario. Then marking the one footer rather than tapping in because they are not away.
[*]Being the last to tee off (because of four putting the previous hole) and then taking 6 slow practice swings, tossing grass to determine wind speed, closing eyes to visualize shot, then hovering over ball for 30 seconds before swinging. This cause the other folks in group to feel rushed because all these methodical, slow habits are causing the groups behind you to get up your butt and the time has got to be made up somewhere.
[*]Not being ready to hit when it's their turn, forcing others on the group to begin walking while the offender tosses grass, pulls club, checks distance, changes club, checks wind again, takes 6 practice swings, closes eyes to visualize shot. While this is going on, the conscience players in group can be ahead and off to the side, while the methodical slowpoke repeats this routine religiously.
[*]Continuing these slow play tactics oblivious to the fact that the course is stacking up behind them. This just means that the courteous players in their group will continue to have to hustle which causes Slo Joe to become "nervous" and slow down even more . If the slow offender would do just a few thing to speed up his play (or even become just a bit more aware of his surroundings) the backlog could be alleviated.
[/list]
Unfortunately, there are no self admitted slow players, it's just the rest of the players are going to fast.
[/quote]
I've literally never seen any of these things happen. Ever. In 40+ years around golf. Never. Not once.

[Hateto3Putt]

[quote name='rsj1360' timestamp='1413903596' post='10325527']
I've literally never seen any of these things happen. Ever. In 40+ years around golf. Never. Not once.
[/quote]

Of course you haven't.

I rest my case.

[rsj1360]

[quote name='Hateto3Putt' timestamp='1413903985' post='10325589']
[quote name='rsj1360' timestamp='1413903596' post='10325527']
I've literally never seen any of these things happen. Ever. In 40+ years around golf. Never. Not once.
[/quote]

Of course you haven't.

I rest my case.
[/quote]
That's because your exaggerations simply do not happen. Some people are slower than others. But nowhere near the exaggerations you list.

[farmer]

[quote name='rsj1360' timestamp='1413903596' post='10325527']
[quote name='Hateto3Putt' timestamp='1413902893' post='10325447']
[quote name='rsj1360' timestamp='1413900936' post='10325237']
Ways in which speedsters have bad etiquette:[list=1]
[*]Standing a couple of feet away from you or the hole with flag in hand while you are trying to putt out - particularly when everyone else is in the hole. Very distracting.
[*]When you are last to tee off and they race down the fairway (assuming you are all walking) before you get your driver back in your bag. This minimizes any chance for talking with each other as you walk down the fairway.
[*]Being in front of you when it is your turn to hit. This actually depends on how confident of a golfer you are. It doesn't bother me if someone is well off to the side, but some people have literally no clue where their next shot may end up and if anyone is anywhere in front of them it is likely to distract them and/or make them nervous.
[*]Continuing with fast play tactics when the course is full in front of them. This just means that they will be waiting on every shot and likely bothering the group in front. They could slow down their routine just slightly to alleviate this.
[/list]
I'll edit this later if more examples pop into my head.
[/quote]

Ways in which slowsters have bad etiquette.[list=1]
[*]Waiting until it's their turn before even considering reading their first putt, then, lining up their second and then third putt from every angle, then marking and replacing the ball so that the line on the ball matches perfectly to their intended putt line before taking their 4 practice putt swipes, missing, then repeating the same scenario. Then marking the one footer rather than tapping in because they are not away.
[*]Being the last to tee off (because of four putting the previous hole) and then taking 6 slow practice swings, tossing grass to determine wind speed, closing eyes to visualize shot, then hovering over ball for 30 seconds before swinging. This cause the other folks in group to feel rushed because all these methodical, slow habits are causing the groups behind you to get up your butt and the time has got to be made up somewhere.
[*]Not being ready to hit when it's their turn, forcing others on the group to begin walking while the offender tosses grass, pulls club, checks distance, changes club, checks wind again, takes 6 practice swings, closes eyes to visualize shot. While this is going on, the conscience players in group can be ahead and off to the side, while the methodical slowpoke repeats this routine religiously.
[*]Continuing these slow play tactics oblivious to the fact that the course is stacking up behind them. This just means that the courteous players in their group will continue to have to hustle which causes Slo Joe to become "nervous" and slow down even more . If the slow offender would do just a few thing to speed up his play (or even become just a bit more aware of his surroundings) the backlog could be alleviated.
[/list]
Unfortunately, there are no self admitted slow players, it's just the rest of the players are going to fast.
[/quote]
I've literally never seen any of these things happen. Ever. In 40+ years around golf. Never. Not once.
[/quote]
I've also played for more than 40 years, and I've seen these things happen many times.

[rsj1360]

[quote name='farmer' timestamp='1413907934' post='10326083']
[quote name='rsj1360' timestamp='1413903596' post='10325527']
[quote name='Hateto3Putt' timestamp='1413902893' post='10325447']
[quote name='rsj1360' timestamp='1413900936' post='10325237']
Ways in which speedsters have bad etiquette:[list=1]
[*]Standing a couple of feet away from you or the hole with flag in hand while you are trying to putt out - particularly when everyone else is in the hole. Very distracting.
[*]When you are last to tee off and they race down the fairway (assuming you are all walking) before you get your driver back in your bag. This minimizes any chance for talking with each other as you walk down the fairway.
[*]Being in front of you when it is your turn to hit. This actually depends on how confident of a golfer you are. It doesn't bother me if someone is well off to the side, but some people have literally no clue where their next shot may end up and if anyone is anywhere in front of them it is likely to distract them and/or make them nervous.
[*]Continuing with fast play tactics when the course is full in front of them. This just means that they will be waiting on every shot and likely bothering the group in front. They could slow down their routine just slightly to alleviate this.
[/list]
I'll edit this later if more examples pop into my head.
[/quote]

Ways in which slowsters have bad etiquette.[list=1]
[*]Waiting until it's their turn before even considering reading their first putt, then, lining up their second and then third putt from every angle, then marking and replacing the ball so that the line on the ball matches perfectly to their intended putt line before taking their 4 practice putt swipes, missing, then repeating the same scenario. Then marking the one footer rather than tapping in because they are not away.
[*]Being the last to tee off (because of four putting the previous hole) and then taking 6 slow practice swings, tossing grass to determine wind speed, closing eyes to visualize shot, then hovering over ball for 30 seconds before swinging. This cause the other folks in group to feel rushed because all these methodical, slow habits are causing the groups behind you to get up your butt and the time has got to be made up somewhere.
[*]Not being ready to hit when it's their turn, forcing others on the group to begin walking while the offender tosses grass, pulls club, checks distance, changes club, checks wind again, takes 6 practice swings, closes eyes to visualize shot. While this is going on, the conscience players in group can be ahead and off to the side, while the methodical slowpoke repeats this routine religiously.
[*]Continuing these slow play tactics oblivious to the fact that the course is stacking up behind them. This just means that the courteous players in their group will continue to have to hustle which causes Slo Joe to become "nervous" and slow down even more . If the slow offender would do just a few thing to speed up his play (or even become just a bit more aware of his surroundings) the backlog could be alleviated.
[/list]
Unfortunately, there are no self admitted slow players, it's just the rest of the players are going to fast.
[/quote]
I've literally never seen any of these things happen. Ever. In 40+ years around golf. Never. Not once.
[/quote]
I've also played for more than 40 years, and I've seen these things happen many times.
[/quote]
Exaggerations simply do not help you make a point. All they do is make you lose credibility.

[ctmason_98]

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd Cooler!

[Hateto3Putt]

[quote name='farmer' timestamp='1413907934' post='10326083']
I've also played for more than 40 years, and I've seen these things happen many times.
[/quote]

As has anyone who's played this game while being cognizant of pace of play.


I think the reason for the localized blindness is that fast players have much less of an impact on slow players than the other way around.

It's akin to being the guy at the poker table who doesn't realize who the sucker is....

The slow players have no idea, everyone else is either too fast or they exaggerate!

[rsj1360]

[quote name='Hateto3Putt' timestamp='1413917096' post='10327255']
[quote name='farmer' timestamp='1413907934' post='10326083']
I've also played for more than 40 years, and I've seen these things happen many times.
[/quote]

As has anyone who's played this game while being cognizant of pace of play.


I think the reason for the localized blindness is that fast players have much less of an impact on slow players than the other way around.

It's akin to being the guy at the poker table who doesn't realize who the sucker is....

The slow players have no idea, everyone else is either too fast or they exaggerate!
[/quote]
I'd like you to take out your phone and get a video of someone taking six practice swings or lining up one foot putts from all sides, etc. If you did this I would chalk it up to location or some such thing. But where I play it doesn't occur.

What I typically see is some guys have no practice swings, the vast majority of the guys have one. I very rarely see two practice swings. Never any more than that. Occasionally I see a guy "freeze" over the ball for longer than I'd expect - but hey, everyone is different. On the green I almost never see a guy read a putt from anywhere else than behind the ball. Does happen rarely though on longer putts. Same thing with tossing grass in the air - happens pretty rarely. As for [size=4]"[color=#282828][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]closing eyes to visualize shot" - where in the **** did you see that? i have never even heard of that before, never mind seeing anyone do it. That is just odd. Lets see - what else? Yes I do see guys marking one footers. But that is reasonable. Those are easily missed. [/background][/color][/size]

[size=4][color=#282828][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]By the way, the original intent of this thread was to ask if "[/background][/color][/size]playing too fast is actually in poor etiquette. I answered with examples of how the answer to this question can be, "yes".

[Spooky67]

[quote name='bazinky' timestamp='1413387877' post='10292347']
It's all about consideration of the other people on the course. Play at whatever pace you want, but DON"T force other people to play at that pace!

You wanna play slow? Go ahead, but just let faster players play through. Why is that so freakin' complicated for some people to understand?

Although I prefer to play faster (normal round for a foursome at my club is 3:30 to 3:45 with no one in front of us, which is about my ideal place), I can make do with whatever pace my group is playing at as long as it's under 5 hours and I don't have somewhere I need to be. The one thing I've noticed is that If I do get in with a slow bunch, I'm always the one that has to instigate them letting faster groups through ...
[/quote]

^This^

It's all about being considerate of others on the course. That being said I want nothing to do with a round most weekends at my home course- way too slow and it gets to the point where there is no use playing through because it's stacked up. I play during the week mostly or "off-weather" weekends. As bad as it is for a slow group to not to let a faster group through, it is equally discourteous to be pressuring the group ahead when there is no where for you to play thought to.

It's all about treating people the way you would want to be treated.

[deadsolid...shank]

[quote name='rsj1360' timestamp='1413922634' post='10327961']
[quote name='Hateto3Putt' timestamp='1413917096' post='10327255']
[quote name='farmer' timestamp='1413907934' post='10326083']
I've also played for more than 40 years, and I've seen these things happen many times.
[/quote]

As has anyone who's played this game while being cognizant of pace of play.


I think the reason for the localized blindness is that fast players have much less of an impact on slow players than the other way around.

It's akin to being the guy at the poker table who doesn't realize who the sucker is....

The slow players have no idea, everyone else is either too fast or they exaggerate!
[/quote]
I'd like you to take out your phone and get a video of someone taking six practice swings or lining up one foot putts from all sides, etc. If you did this I would chalk it up to location or some such thing. But where I play it doesn't occur.

What I typically see is some guys have no practice swings, the vast majority of the guys have one. I very rarely see two practice swings. Never any more than that. Occasionally I see a guy "freeze" over the ball for longer than I'd expect - but hey, everyone is different. On the green I almost never see a guy read a putt from anywhere else than behind the ball. Does happen rarely though on longer putts. Same thing with tossing grass in the air - happens pretty rarely. As for [size=4]"[color=#282828][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]closing eyes to visualize shot" - where in the **** did you see that? i have never even heard of that before, never mind seeing anyone do it. That is just odd. Lets see - what else? Yes I do see guys marking one footers. But that is reasonable. Those are easily missed. [/background][/color][/size]

[size=4][color=#282828][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]By the way, the original intent of this thread was to ask if "[/background][/color][/size]playing too fast is actually in poor etiquette. I answered with examples of how the answer to this question can be, "yes".
[/quote]

If nobody is doing these things, then why are all your average rounds over four hours?

If everyone is always ready to play, never takes more than two practice swings, and only look at the putts from behind the hole, then (on an average length course with reasonable tee to green distances) there is NO, NONE, ZERO reason for a round to be over four hours. Even with extra time on certain holes to look for balls, hits provisionals, and any other legitimate actions that add bits of time.

[rsj1360]

[quote name='deadsolid...shank' timestamp='1413990407' post='10332413']
[quote name='rsj1360' timestamp='1413922634' post='10327961']
[quote name='Hateto3Putt' timestamp='1413917096' post='10327255']
[quote name='farmer' timestamp='1413907934' post='10326083']
I've also played for more than 40 years, and I've seen these things happen many times.
[/quote]

As has anyone who's played this game while being cognizant of pace of play.


I think the reason for the localized blindness is that fast players have much less of an impact on slow players than the other way around.

It's akin to being the guy at the poker table who doesn't realize who the sucker is....

The slow players have no idea, everyone else is either too fast or they exaggerate!
[/quote]
I'd like you to take out your phone and get a video of someone taking six practice swings or lining up one foot putts from all sides, etc. If you did this I would chalk it up to location or some such thing. But where I play it doesn't occur.

What I typically see is some guys have no practice swings, the vast majority of the guys have one. I very rarely see two practice swings. Never any more than that. Occasionally I see a guy "freeze" over the ball for longer than I'd expect - but hey, everyone is different. On the green I almost never see a guy read a putt from anywhere else than behind the ball. Does happen rarely though on longer putts. Same thing with tossing grass in the air - happens pretty rarely. As for "[color=#282828][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]closing eyes to visualize shot" - where in the **** did you see that? i have never even heard of that before, never mind seeing anyone do it. That is just odd. Lets see - what else? Yes I do see guys marking one footers. But that is reasonable. Those are easily missed. [/background][/color]

[color=#282828][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]By the way, the original intent of this thread was to ask if "[/background][/color]playing too fast is actually in poor etiquette. I answered with examples of how the answer to this question can be, "yes".
[/quote]

If nobody is doing these things, then why are all your average rounds over four hours?

If everyone is always ready to play, never takes more than two practice swings, and only look at the putts from behind the hole, then (on an average length course with reasonable tee to green distances) there is NO, NONE, ZERO reason for a round to be over four hours. Even with extra time on certain holes to look for balls, hits provisionals, and any other legitimate actions that add bits of time.
[/quote]
Mostly because the courses are over full.

But also, as we know the speed is set by the slower of the groups. And as I have made the point before, even playing by all the rules you people lay out, some groups are simply going to be slower due to age, physical fitness, temperament, golfing ability, etc, etc. You can say it over and over and over again, but it doesn't make it true that 3 1/2 hours should be typical golf for most foursomes. It isn't. 3 1/2 hrs is the fast end of the distribution. Four hours would be the mean. 4 3/4 hours would be the slow end.

[mr_divots]

Walked a 6800 yard course in 3 hours yesterday. Even had lunch as I walked. Had some guys jump in behind me on #10 and try to play through on the back.
Sorry, but if 1.5 hrs is too long for 9, stay home. I did put a few holes between us by 18. But it felt stupid to even have to worry about them when I played in 3 freaking hours. (People in carts think they can play circles around all walkers.) Fall golf is great for how empty the course can be. But the "play as fast as you can" mentality gets annoying too. Too often, old guys seem to make it about how FAST they play. Watching them play what they call golf is painful. Its like they don't try to score well and just are out there to see how fast it can be done. I hate slow play, but essentially NOT playing real golf is when fast play gets to be too much.

[DavePelz4]

[quote name='mr_divots' timestamp='1413991478' post='10332557']
Walked a 6800 yard course in 3 hours yesterday. Even had lunch as I walked. Had some guys jump in behind me on #10 and try to play through on the back.
Sorry, but if 1.5 hrs is too long for 9, stay home. I did put a few holes between us by 18. But it felt stupid to even have to worry about them when I played in 3 freaking hours. (People in carts think they can play circles around all walkers.) Fall golf is great for how empty the course can be. But the "play as fast as you can" mentality gets annoying too. Too often, old guys seem to make it about how FAST they play. Watching them play what they call golf is painful. Its like they don't try to score well and just are out there to see how fast it can be done. I hate slow play, but essentially NOT playing real golf is when fast play gets to be too much.
[/quote]

Well stated Div!

[deadsolid...shank]

[quote name='rsj1360' timestamp='1413991312' post='10332527']
[quote name='deadsolid...shank' timestamp='1413990407' post='10332413']
[quote name='rsj1360' timestamp='1413922634' post='10327961']
[quote name='Hateto3Putt' timestamp='1413917096' post='10327255']
[quote name='farmer' timestamp='1413907934' post='10326083']
I've also played for more than 40 years, and I've seen these things happen many times.
[/quote]

As has anyone who's played this game while being cognizant of pace of play.


I think the reason for the localized blindness is that fast players have much less of an impact on slow players than the other way around.

It's akin to being the guy at the poker table who doesn't realize who the sucker is....

The slow players have no idea, everyone else is either too fast or they exaggerate!
[/quote]
I'd like you to take out your phone and get a video of someone taking six practice swings or lining up one foot putts from all sides, etc. If you did this I would chalk it up to location or some such thing. But where I play it doesn't occur.

What I typically see is some guys have no practice swings, the vast majority of the guys have one. I very rarely see two practice swings. Never any more than that. Occasionally I see a guy "freeze" over the ball for longer than I'd expect - but hey, everyone is different. On the green I almost never see a guy read a putt from anywhere else than behind the ball. Does happen rarely though on longer putts. Same thing with tossing grass in the air - happens pretty rarely. As for "[color=#282828][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]closing eyes to visualize shot" - where in the **** did you see that? i have never even heard of that before, never mind seeing anyone do it. That is just odd. Lets see - what else? Yes I do see guys marking one footers. But that is reasonable. Those are easily missed. [/background][/color]

[color=#282828][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]By the way, the original intent of this thread was to ask if "[/background][/color]playing too fast is actually in poor etiquette. I answered with examples of how the answer to this question can be, "yes".
[/quote]

If nobody is doing these things, then why are all your average rounds over four hours?

If everyone is always ready to play, never takes more than two practice swings, and only look at the putts from behind the hole, then (on an average length course with reasonable tee to green distances) there is NO, NONE, ZERO reason for a round to be over four hours. Even with extra time on certain holes to look for balls, hits provisionals, and any other legitimate actions that add bits of time.
[/quote]
Mostly because the courses are over full.

But also, as we know the speed is set by the slower of the groups. And as I have made the point before, even playing by all the rules you people lay out, some groups are simply going to be slower due to age, physical fitness, temperament, golfing ability, etc, etc. You can say it over and over and over again, but it doesn't make it true that 3 1/2 hours should be typical golf for most foursomes. It isn't. 3 1/2 hrs is the fast end of the distribution. Four hours would be the mean. 4 3/4 hours would be the slow end.
[/quote]

Yes, the entire course's pace of play is set by the slowest group. The question then is, why is that group slow, someone is doing something to play slowly. You can be in iffy physical conditon, play horrribly, and have a bad temperamnet, but if you're always ready to play when it's your turn, and you do so quickly, there is no reason you can't be around in under 4:00.

The only caveat to me on pace is the course and conditions. Those can legitmatly make it slower. But on a normal length course where the greens and tees are fairly close, I refuse to believe that almost anyone can play the vast majority of their rounds under 4:00.

To be real honest, I cannot for the life of me imagine what people are doing when they take over four hours on a open course.

[jml4]

OP, do not, I repeat DO NOT play La Mirada Golf Course. Little muni in my hometown, hadn't played in years, took 5.5 hrs this past Saturday. I'm not an overly fast or slow player, I tend to keep a good pace.

Was stuck in a 5some, and waiting behind 2 groups to tee off on multiple holes. Needless to say I was livid, bug it wasn't the fault of the pace, blame lied solely in a course putting too many groups out there...

Long story short, I think if you're playing fast and not hitting up on people then all is fine!

[rsj1360]

I have a friend that is does everything incredibly slowly. I have helped him with home renovation projects and everything he does is slow and deliberate. I have seen him drive and he is the slowest driver I have ever seen (I mean incredibly slow). He talks slowly. He eats slowly. He is a very slow golfer. And he does everything "right" (he has been golfing for his whole life). He is just slow. Extremely. And it is only getting worse as he ages and his health deteriorates. If it were just he and I on an open course I would be surprised if we finished in less than four hours. And nothing anyone could say or do would be able to change that. Now imagine a foursome of people just like him.

[deadsolid...shank]

[quote name='rsj1360' timestamp='1413993647' post='10332839']
I have a friend that is does everything incredibly slowly. I have helped him with home renovation projects and everything he does is slow and deliberate. I have seen him drive and he is the slowest driver I have ever seen (I mean incredibly slow). He talks slowly. He eats slowly. He is a very slow golfer. And he does everything "right" (he has been golfing for his whole life). He is just slow. Extremely. And it is only getting worse as he ages and his health deteriorates. If it were just he and I on an open course I would be surprised if we finished in less than four hours. And nothing anyone could say or do would be able to change that. Now imagine a foursome of people just like him.
[/quote]

I've got a friend like that too. As an admittedly "up tempo" person it drives me nuts. But he's always at least ready to play. So while he's very methodical, he can still get around the course in a decent time. Probably not as bad as your guy.

Yes, a foursome of your guy would be bad, and slow. But therein lies the problem. Does he know how slow he is? Which goes to the statement that no one thinks they're slow.

And if he knows he's that slow and won't do anything to change...........well, I think that where most of the slow play issues derive from. Because even if he lets people play through, he has slowed up the course.

[rsj1360]

[quote name='deadsolid...shank' timestamp='1413994282' post='10332919']
[quote name='rsj1360' timestamp='1413993647' post='10332839']
I have a friend that is does everything incredibly slowly. I have helped him with home renovation projects and everything he does is slow and deliberate. I have seen him drive and he is the slowest driver I have ever seen (I mean incredibly slow). He talks slowly. He eats slowly. He is a very slow golfer. And he does everything "right" (he has been golfing for his whole life). He is just slow. Extremely. And it is only getting worse as he ages and his health deteriorates. If it were just he and I on an open course I would be surprised if we finished in less than four hours. And nothing anyone could say or do would be able to change that. Now imagine a foursome of people just like him.
[/quote]

I've got a friend like that too. As an admittedly "up tempo" person it drives me nuts. But he's always at least ready to play. So while he's very methodical, he can still get around the course in a decent time. Probably not as bad as your guy.

Yes, a foursome of your guy would be bad, and slow. But therein lies the problem. Does he know how slow he is? Which goes to the statement that no one thinks they're slow.

And if he knows he's that slow and won't do anything to change...........well, I think that where most of the slow play issues derive from. Because even if he lets people play through, he has slowed up the course.
[/quote]
I expect he knows he is slow. I have never asked. But it isn't a case of "won't", it is a case of "can't". He would be incapable of speeding up in anything he does.

As as side note, I am one of the most impatient people I know. Drivers going 35 in a 40 mph zone make me nuts. Slow walkers bother me until I can get around them. I went to the gym this morning and they have little cubbies where people store back packs and such. As I was leaving and wanting to get my bag a woman got there just before me and took [i]forever[/i] to get he coat off, her shoes changed, etc, etc. Was making me nuts because I didn't want to just push past her to grab my bag. I'm just not impatient on the golf course. The pace is what it is. I'd prefer not to wait on every shot. But I [i]hate[/i] being rushed. And, I know you don't believe me, but in no way am I a slow golfer. One of these days maybe you'll take my word for it.