Official WRX Gear Trials Event Thread: Results are in and Data live- Page 27

[G-Bone]

I've been a PXG hater, but only because they couldn't use as a base anything other than what Ping had. I thought the technology would be there and the numbers would show it. Yet the driver spun a ton even after adjusting the screws? My guess is that the tech gains are in the irons, but I just thought the PXG driver would find its way into a few of the long hitter's top 3. This site is important for PXG and it's gotta be disappointing for them to show so poorly since they don't give their clubs away for independent testing. Maybe we now know why.

 

When I hit PXG is was less about spin and more about ball speed. We did not spend much time monkeying around with weighting, as the ball speed was simply way behind several of the others.

 

And let me tell you something... I wanted to like it. There is nothing I love more than tossing the most expensive gear in my bag I can find... Yes, I have an issue. ;)

[easyyy]

I've been a PXG hater, but only because they couldn't use as a base anything other than what Ping had. I thought the technology would be there and the numbers would show it. Yet the driver spun a ton even after adjusting the screws? My guess is that the tech gains are in the irons, but I just thought the PXG driver would find its way into a few of the long hitter's top 3. This site is important for PXG and it's gotta be disappointing for them to show so poorly since they don't give their clubs away for independent testing. Maybe we now know why.

 

PXG does do irons right. And that is on their first round also. The driver did win #1 for one of the testers but not so good for the other guys from memory.

 

That being said they have a set of irons that according to the MOG fitters. One of them told me that they are real good performers and feel great.

[Kingcat990]

Interesting. Good read. Took awhile to read the whole thing up to here but still a good read. Looks like a great get together.

 

Were the callaway golf balls used throughout the test or did any of the testers pick their own? Just curious to see if this kind of gathering and those kind of resources have results to seeing golf balls having different patterns with the above golfers.

[Holy Moses]

Interesting. Good read. Took awhile to read the whole thing up to here but still a good read. Looks like a great get together.

 

Were the callaway golf balls used throughout the test or did any of the testers pick their own? Just curious to see if this kind of gathering and those kind of resources have results to seeing golf balls having different patterns with the above golfers.

 

G-Bone bought some others and distributed them according to a few posts up

[swizbeatz]

Interesting. Good read. Took awhile to read the whole thing up to here but still a good read. Looks like a great get together.

 

Were the callaway golf balls used throughout the test or did any of the testers pick their own? Just curious to see if this kind of gathering and those kind of resources have results to seeing golf balls having different patterns with the above golfers.

 

G-Bone bought some others and distributed them according to a few posts up

 

He buys and tests them on his own, not yesterday. For reasons I mentioned above I don't see how it would have been possible to do yesterday, we were hitting too many balls and everyone plays a different one normally. Same ball across all testing made sense to me.

[Medic]

Interesting. Good read. Took awhile to read the whole thing up to here but still a good read. Looks like a great get together.

 

Were the callaway golf balls used throughout the test or did any of the testers pick their own? Just curious to see if this kind of gathering and those kind of resources have results to seeing golf balls having different patterns with the above golfers.

 

Not 100% certain about all of the others but I hit nothing but brand spanking new Chrome Softs. For me this was an awesome coincidence because this happens to be my current game ball.

 

I don't recall hearing anyone griping too much about them either. Kudos and thanks to Callaway for stepping up because this meant there was a known consistency factor for each one of us - everyone hitting brand new Chrome Softs. Not one ball took more than one hit. We started with 3500 as I understand it.

[J13]

Sounds like some great fittings now the question is how many guys will put together the new setup? Or will you make due with what you have.

[Holy Moses]

Driver technology is pretty much maxed out. COR is at the limit and has been for years. The average golfer can get around this by a good fitting (in a way) and aerodynamic technology to get more speed without increasing COR. But even with unlimited time and resources, PXG couldn't make a better driver it seems. Kinda depressing.

[Kingcat990]

You didnt hit the same ball twice? That's amazing. Great job on callaway for providing that.

[boycer]

After drinking watching the game tonight, I'm wondering how handicaps or the golfers swing caused certain heads to give the best results?? It will be nice to see the trends.

 

 

[Kingcat990]

Driver technology is pretty much maxed out. COR is at the limit and has been for years. The average golfer can get around this by a good fitting (in a way) and aerodynamic technology to get more speed without increasing COR. But even with unlimited time and resources, PXG couldn't make a better driver it seems. Kinda depressing.

 

So in your eyes, how would PXG improve their Driver?

[Holy Moses]

Driver technology is pretty much maxed out. COR is at the limit and has been for years. The average golfer can get around this by a good fitting (in a way) and aerodynamic technology to get more speed without increasing COR. But even with unlimited time and resources, PXG couldn't make a better driver it seems. Kinda depressing.

 

So in your eyes, how would PXG improve their Driver?

 

For one, sounds like they are 3% behind in ball speed. Getting that to be competitive is a start. You can always add turbulators or a speed slot lol! They have the driver I think called Darkness that was spotted, so maybe it's longer. But Bob said his clubs are the best in the world bar none. Well, bar almost every good one on the market! Maybe PXG's focus was initially on iron technology which does seem to be ahead of everyone else and they'll transition to improving the driver next. But it looks bad when you come out guns blazing, charge double the cost of a good driver, say you make the best clubs, and then terribly underperform in independent testing.

[G-Bone]

Sounds like some great fittings now the question is how many guys will put together the new setup? Or will you make due with what you have.

 

I for one will be switching to my winner, and I am one of the few guys that had a gamer that was darn near as good as anything that MOG could fit me to.

 

In all fairness, I spend many hours on Trackman during the winter, so my gamer is as about dialed in as anyone can hope for.

 

My GearWRX 2016 winner is Ping G LS. It will be going in my bag because it was "as good" as my G30 LS, but delivers better feel, looks and dispersion... Which for me, are solid reasons to upgrade.

[hayzooos]

Not to be negative, but some people asked for the ones we didn't like. Here would be my boobie prize "winners":

PXG -- looked good, felt good, but ball speed was lacking, and spun way too much. One guy ended up with it as his winner, but the general consensus was that it was really disappointing

 

TEE EX9 -- to a man, everyone thought it looked way closed, though it's actually 3* open. Almost without fail, the first shot people hit with it went way right.

 

Mizuno JPX 850 -- busy crown graphics, and I hated the feel. I think I said "I hate this thing," as I handed it back to the fitter

 

There were more hits than misses, but these few missed the mark for me.

 

I agree about the TEE and the JPX. The JPX is a bit too busy when looking down at the ball, actually distracting and I normally don't give a rip what a club looks like so long as it does what I want it to do. I noticed a lot going on right away and just couldn't get comfortable over the ball.

 

The TEE was just...weird. The face always looked shut unless you raised your hands up at address like Bryson would. Forgive me if I use some of these terms wrong, but I'll do my best to describe it. Most drivers have the roll from heel to toe, right? I think Bulge and Roll is what they normally use to describe this. The TEE's top line, it was like you could take a ruler to it...dead straight. If anyone has hit some Wishon heads, it's kinda similar to those, how a lot of his have a perfectly straight top line. It's weird to look at on a driver because we're not used to seeing it. Normally I think this makes the face look more open than it is, so I don't know if it's something with the hosel transition on the TEE or what it is, but the driver just didn't sit right behind the ball. That seemed to be a common statement among the group.

 

maybe it was mentioned and I missed it:

 

did they have BOTH the King LTD and Pro there?

was there a noticeable difference between the two?

Was anyone playing the Fly Z+ (or played is long enough to comment) leading up to this and can compare?

 

They had both there. Fitter put me into the Pro right off the bat, it was the first driver I hit (and the one that won for me). My guess is because he saw me swing with my XR a few times before I started testing. Maybe it was because of the attack angle being so positive, he knew I needed something with lower loft and the only difference with the Pro is the loft settings. He had me in either 8.5 or 8.5F, I'm not sure which. I'm assuming 8.5F because he mentioned I needed a head that was a bit open and flatter.

 

Question for the group..

 

I know when I spoke to Richard last he mentioned keeping your gamer shaft you were fit for consistent when trying all of the various heads. Now that I see some of your top 3 finalists, many of them have 3 different shafts. How did that happen? Was the goal to keep the same shafts and analyze the differences all things being equal? Or did it change into a semi-test semi-fitting and quest just to find which was flat out the best for you with any shaft in it?

 

Just curious, looking forward to your write ups!

 

This kinda surprised me a bit how it all went down. When I heard what was happening, I thought they were going to use the Club Connex (?) for everything, but they didn't. They have so many shafts with so many adapters, there isn't much you can't hit. The biggest thing about the gamer shafts was at the end, we were able to test that shaft against what we found work best. I might have been one of the only ones where my gamer shaft and the 'best' head beat everything out. Most guys ended up with something different from what I remember.

 

The quest was really what's going to be the best driver for you. Not the longest, not the straightest, but the best combination of both. I had some pretty long balls with the TEE (I think) but it wasn't consistent at all regarding dispersion, so it didn't even make the final 3.

 

When I was testing the final group ,the LTD Pro won (Tour Green shaft) and then I tested it with the Agera and it got better. Little bit longer, little bit straighter, but more consistent overall.

 

I know you know this, but I'm always looking for the driver that will put me 'far enough' but in the fairway or at least between the tree lines. If I find a driver I can hit 20 yards further 1/8 times, but I'm in the woods half the time, I'm not playing it, and no one else should be in all honesty either.

 

Do you guys feel that the Chrome Soft helped or hurt your numbers? I'm a Trackman novice, but the numbers can be affected by the type of ball you play, right?

 

I thought a lot about this and I came to the conclusion the results would've been the same had we been using ProV1s or ProV1xs, and here's why. If the V1x spins 200rpm (I made that up, don't quote me) less than the Chrome Soft, then every shot would've had 200rpm more spin during our fitting, right? I mean, that's the logic I'm trying to use here. A good hit is a good hit and a miss is a miss. Now if we were using Slazenger Raw Distance, there might be an issue, but I don't think the use of Chrome Soft helped or hurt anything. I think it just was what it was.

[hayzooos]

Too many quotes last post, so here's a few more responses:

 

 

 

I've been a PXG hater, but only because they couldn't use as a base anything other than what Ping had. I thought the technology would be there and the numbers would show it. Yet the driver spun a ton even after adjusting the screws? My guess is that the tech gains are in the irons, but I just thought the PXG driver would find its way into a few of the long hitter's top 3. This site is important for PXG and it's gotta be disappointing for them to show so poorly since they don't give their clubs away for independent testing. Maybe we now know why.

 

I think Richard touched on this previously, but the equipment they have out right now is their first iron in the golf equipment fire, no pun intended. That's a BIG step and I think they probably did it better than just about everyone else. The OG Nike blades were pretty darn good but some of their first drivers were HOT GARBAGE. Like dumpster fire hot garbage. Sure, their Tour stuff was good, but what do you think we're going to pay for a Tour Dept PXG head? $1,200? If you want to dump that kind of coin to play a head that will keep up to others already out there, be my guest.

 

I have NO DOUBT PXG is going to be a serious force as they continue to refine their processes and launch more product. We know they're not running out of money anytime soon, and they can only go up. They did a bang up job with their first release, but I think their first foray into the driver market isn't up to snuff quite yet with the guys who've been playing that game for decades.

 

Sounds like some great fittings now the question is how many guys will put together the new setup? Or will you make due with what you have.

 

What I was fit for is already in the works. Well, I'm already talking to someone about building it up for me. There's only one place to get the shaft that fit me best, so it's pretty easy thing to figure out ;). Once I know for certain exactly what the specs were on what I was hitting, I'm going to get it, no doubt. One big reason is because Nate was hell bent (can I say that??) on eliminating a two way miss, which I have with my XR. The LTD Pro I was hitting, I felt like I'd be able to aim down the left side of the fairway and swing for the fences and end up in the fairway or the right rough. I didn't fear a left miss with it at all so long as I put a marginal swing on it. Even the bad swings I put on it a few times during the day weren't nearly as bad as others I hit with my own driver and others I tested.

 

One thing I just thought of that I thought was quite humorous was after I got done hitting the LTD Pro and Agera combo. I knew it, the fitter knew it, all the guys in my group knew it, but I wanted to see anyway. I asked our fitter, Nate, if I should hit what I brought (XR Agera) to compare. He looked at me and without hesitation said, "if you want it to lose real quick, sure." Everyone was laughing, but I really wanted to see and kind of took it as a challenge. So I hit two really solid drives with my XR. High draws in the middle of the face. Slower ball speed, less carry, less total distance.

[Doc420]

For Easyyy or any of the guys from MOG that might be reading any of this, is the Cincinnati location setup as well as the main store? Just wondering if they have as many options to try.

[ladahl]

Some more random thoughts -

 

None of the Cobras worked-out for me (with the shafts I tried anyway) .. I was kind of surprised (and sad-because it seemed like most others were getting really good results with one of the Cobras)

 

I think the golfers represented will be far and wide when the real deal thread is up and running ... You'll see a so many different swings styles, speeds, testers ages, etc. that I have no doubt that most WRXers will be able to gravitate to one or more guys and see in real data what might work as s starting point in their 2016 driver quest.

 

Another surprise (after speaking with Nate, our fitter) - how much more important the head setup is vs shaft (as long as you get something in the proper weight class and flex that fits you and "feels" good ... I was fit for a D+ 70x whiteboard, but I know I will be trying a bunch of similar profiled shafts this winter before settling in anything specific. I'm happy about this twofold: the Whitebiard seems boring ;) & that means I can still tinker this off season !!!!

 

Keep the questions/comments coming guys - we are all excited to read them and answer anything -

[knudson81]

I think it will be very interesting to see the final write up with a ton more data. As you were waiting for your turn you were always talking about what worked and didn't work for you during your session. It was pretty cool to see some heads that seemed to work for the majority of guys, but a few just couldn't get that one dialed in. I was one of the few that seemed to not hit the M1 well at all. I think the downfall on that head for me is that it just couldn't generate the ball speed on the off center hits.

 

Also can't wait to see more of the data since I went in with a total open mind. Most of the time I didn't even look at the specs of the head or shaft the fitter handed me, just swung. That way I didn't go into any combo judging it and thinking of all the reviews I have read on GolfWRX to influence my thoughts.

[Beastmode Broker]

the real question:

 

for anyone that was fit for an OEM not in their bag currently, will you be replacing everything in the bag now?

asking for a friend ...... ;)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(this would more than likely keep me up at night, LOL!)

[knudson81]

the real question:

 

for anyone that was fit for an OEM not in their bag currently, will you be replacing everything in the bag now?

asking for a friend ...... ;)

 

I have the GBB, was fit into the Cobra, and now am really thinking about changing. I liked everything about the King LTD that I was hitting and it performed better. Most people know I am a Callaway guy but I am really, seriously looking into switching over. Rest of the bag is staying for now.

[bruinsPATSirish]

Sounds like some great fittings now the question is how many guys will put together the new setup? Or will you make due with what you have.

 

I am absolutely changing my setup. I have the M1 10.5* already so I just need to pick up an ADDI7x.

 

The GolfWRX in me has also already started looking for a Cobra LTD.... :D

[J13]

Hayzoos thanks for all the info man!!

 

I would expect everyone to switch! Afterall this is Golfwrx and there's no way and self respecting Wrx'er could sleep knowing they are leaving yds and accuracy on the table :)

[Warrick]

It seems that Callaway drivers are popular and played by a lot on here.

 

Apparently though not one tester had a Cally as #1 ( at least from what I have seen so far). I did not even see many in the top 3.

 

Were the 816 DBD and XR16 just middle of the road for most?

[itw419]

It seems that Callaway drivers are popular and played by a lot on here.

 

Apparently though not one tester had a Cally as #1 ( at least from what I have seen so far). I did not even see many in the top 3.

 

Were the 816 DBD and XR16 just middle of the road for most?

 

The 816 DBD was a very close second for me. The numbers were very good but just a touch behind the M1.

[Warrick]

It seems that Callaway drivers are popular and played by a lot on here.

 

Apparently though not one tester had a Cally as #1 ( at least from what I have seen so far). I did not even see many in the top 3.

 

Were the 816 DBD and XR16 just middle of the road for most?

 

The 816 DBD was a very close second for me. The numbers were very good but just a touch behind the M1.

 

Thanks.

 

I tried to read all of the posts, but may have missed a few.

 

I am also curious, for any that had the DBD in their top 3, what shaft gave you the best results.

 

Thanks again for all of the replies from the testers, pretty cool.

[knudson81]

It seems that Callaway drivers are popular and played by a lot on here.

 

Apparently though not one tester had a Cally as #1 ( at least from what I have seen so far). I did not even see many in the top 3.

 

Were the 816 DBD and XR16 just middle of the road for most?

 

Our group, including itw419, seemed to draw (hook) the ball for most of our misses and our fitter explained that he didn't like the heavier draw bias in the GBB and XR16. For me that XR16 Pro made it to the final 3 but I just wasn't consistent enough for the 816DBD and needed more forgiveness. Now itw419 was stupidly consistent and found the 816DBD to be a good fit.

[Lord Helmet]

For Easyyy or any of the guys from MOG that might be reading any of this, is the Cincinnati location setup as well as the main store? Just wondering if they have as many options to try.

 

The CIncinnati location is every bit as good IMO. However, unless Ive missed it, I have not seen PXG stuff there - but admit I havent been in the fitting room in a few weeks, maybe they added them recently??? Allot of the MOG staff in Cincy came from the Michigan location I believe when the Cincy store opened a couple years ago.

 

Im there waaaaay too much.

 

I really enjoyed reading this thread. Wish I could have been there - but again, being a southpaw holds me back. I do putt right handed, so if there is ever a putter gear trial, Im in!

[3_Jack_Par]

Question for the group..

 

I know when I spoke to Richard last he mentioned keeping your gamer shaft you were fit for consistent when trying all of the various heads. Now that I see some of your top 3 finalists, many of them have 3 different shafts. How did that happen? Was the goal to keep the same shafts and analyze the differences all things being equal? Or did it change into a semi-test semi-fitting and quest just to find which was flat out the best for you with any shaft in it?

 

Just curious, looking forward to your write ups!

 

Yes, the idea was to find the best fit and best performers no matter the setup.

 

I think the idea was that our gamer shaft was supposed to already be ideal for us, but I know atleast for me and even the rest of group C my gamer shaft was toasted by other shafts. The fitter Shawn told me he wouldn't put my gamer (Fuji Pro 73X) in my hands so we didn't touch it. My gamer was the shortest driver I hit all day lol

 

Got it, so you were fit for a driver that was that bad? Or was it a shaft you were experimenting with? Did everyone go in there with a gamer that was professionally fit?

 

I was "fit" for my gamer by a Taylormade guy back in September. I knew I was leaving distance on the table with my M1 but it was very straight and I have been playing good golf with it so I haven't worried about it. When Shawn maxed me out I was pumping 20+ more yards out of the same M1 head with a different shaft (ADDI 7x)

 

I know a lot of the other guys had very good gamer setups that barely got beat, one gamer didn't get beat by anytging

I ended up in my gamer in kind of the same way. For me, I'm willing to sacrifice a few yards if it means keeping it in play more often. I hit it far enough to be able to handle most courses from a length perspective (exception -- I played Muirfield Village from the all the way back tournament tees, and that was a beating. I almost wore out my 5 iron that day.), but I do struggle with wildness off the tee sometimes, and my driver choices the past few years have been geared toward forgiveness and avoiding penalty strokes off the tee. Prior to my G30 LST, I had a G25 in the bag. That club was super forgiving, but I knew I was leaving a lot of yards out there in the name of that forgiveness. The G30 LST came along, and it was a game changer in how much spin that it cut off, while still maintaining a similar level of G25 forgiveness. I was fitted into that head with an AD BB 6x (kind of -- I had the shaft and wanted it to be a good fit, and I hit it as part of a mini fitting with a friend who works at a local store, and it worked fairly well, but I didn't try a large variety of shafts. I felt like I lacked a little control with the BB, so I picked up an MT, thinking it was a good cross between the BB and the DI, which I thought was too high-launching based on what I had read, and possibly skewed experience from 3-4 years ago. I played this combo for about 6 months, and had decent results. I really thought that my gamer was not going to be able to be beaten by anything I hit on Saturday.

After hitting my club to set the baseline, Shawn immediately recognized that the MT just doesn't have the right profile for me, so I don't think we touched that shaft the rest of the day. Most of what I hit had either a Rogue Silver 110 70x, a Kuro Kage 70x, or the AD DI 7x in them. So, in an ideal world, we all would have come in with shafts that were the right fit for our swings, and could have tested each head with the exact same setup, but I think it was a more useful exercise to approach the process like a club fitting, and get the testers into shaft profiles that fit the individuals, even if you end up with different shafts in different clubs. Some shafts just seem to play a little better in different heads.

Circling back to my particular experience, I'm really not willing to sacrifice dispersion for a few extra yards, and it has been my experience in the past (prior to the G25, I was using clubs like the Adams Fast 12 LS and TMAG Superdeep that were very long, and spin killers, but punished misses badly) that there is a tradeoff between the two. The G30 LST got closer to a situation where it wasn't an either/or scenario, but for me, I still spin that in the high 2000s. In my testing of the King LTD Pro on Saturday, it really seemed like it was very forgiving on mis-hits, giving me spin numbers under 3000 when I hit it on the heel, which is my most common miss, and when I caught it in the middle, I was getting 1800. And the dispersion was such that I think I could play it without seeing a big uptick in penalties from wild tee shots.

I want to see the final numbers and probably go back to hit it again against my gamer (with a shaft change in the LST) to see if I'm really going to go ahead and make a change (it's a pricey setup, so I need to consider that), but I think it's going to be hard to keep the King from being the king of my bag this year.

[buggits30]

.

[3_Jack_Par]

It seems that Callaway drivers are popular and played by a lot on here.

 

Apparently though not one tester had a Cally as #1 ( at least from what I have seen so far). I did not even see many in the top 3.

 

Were the 816 DBD and XR16 just middle of the road for most?

The DBD was just outside my top 3, and the only reason for that was a couple of bigger misses than I like to see compared to the G LST, which went into the finals in the #3 spot (it ended up #2). I didn't get along with the XR16 at all.