How is Cantlay not getting penalised?

[deadsolid...shank]

I don't really like the other sports analogies, very much. Sometimes they work, but sometimes they don't. Pitchers have to deliver to the plate in a certain time, but still baseball games take for-EVER.

 

But annoying routines aside, is Cantlay or Bradley or anyone else shooting after 40 seconds. Has anyone kept track? I have no idea.

 

I didn’t even know that was a baseball rule until now. It’s stupid. It’s the runner causing the throws to 1st. Not the pitcher. If every idiot didn’t try to get a lead halfway to 2nd nobody would throw over.

 

Agreed. Baseball is slow as crap no matter how you cut it. I have a 10 year old who plays to a pretty high level regionally. Each season we have games where even the players are falling asleep it’s so boring. Why ? Players aren’t taught to swing the bat anymore. They look for perfect pitches and walks. Then try to steal bases. So thegame is 98% pitcher / catcher , pitcher /1st baseman.

 

The main reason baseball has gotten so slow is so many managers are using way too much analytics, managing solely by the “book” instead of any feel for the game and thus making way too many moves. We’re looking at you Dave Roberts.

 

Pitchers walking around behind the mound between every pitch and batters stepping out and undoing and retightening their gloves between every pitch are also certainly contributing. MLB is at least trying though, limiting mound visits and a pitch clock are at least steps. The explosion of strikeouts (becasue everyone is trying to hit every pitch 500 feet) isn’t helping either.

 

Anyway, off my baseball soapbox now. I love the shot clock for golf. Simple and effective. And it really shines the light on who is slow in the group as opposed to the entire group being held at fault.

[Vindog]

Working the pitch count has been around a long time, but the Sox / Yanks in the 90's-00's really made it worse.

[bscinstnct]

I don't really like the other sports analogies, very much. Sometimes they work, but sometimes they don't. Pitchers have to deliver to the plate in a certain time, but still baseball games take for-EVER.

 

But annoying routines aside, is Cantlay or Bradley or anyone else shooting after 40 seconds. Has anyone kept track? I have no idea.

 

Yeah, but once the ball is delivered

 

There is a bit of a time crunch to react ; )

 

[IVM]

Here is the answer , if they are slow for more than 2 holes and they lose a hole then disqualify the group . That will stop slow play .

[Vindog]

Here is the answer , if they are slow for more than 2 holes and they lose a hole then disqualify the group . That will stop slow play .

 

Chyeah!

 

I'm sure they would love Tiger getting DQ'd because of some journeyman!

[bladehunter]

I don't really like the other sports analogies, very much. Sometimes they work, but sometimes they don't. Pitchers have to deliver to the plate in a certain time, but still baseball games take for-EVER.

 

But annoying routines aside, is Cantlay or Bradley or anyone else shooting after 40 seconds. Has anyone kept track? I have no idea.

 

I didn’t even know that was a baseball rule until now. It’s stupid. It’s the runner causing the throws to 1st. Not the pitcher. If every idiot didn’t try to get a lead halfway to 2nd nobody would throw over.

 

Agreed. Baseball is slow as crap no matter how you cut it. I have a 10 year old who plays to a pretty high level regionally. Each season we have games where even the players are falling asleep it’s so boring. Why ? Players aren’t taught to swing the bat anymore. They look for perfect pitches and walks. Then try to steal bases. So thegame is 98% pitcher / catcher , pitcher /1st baseman.

 

The main reason baseball has gotten so slow is so many managers are using way too much analytics, managing solely by the “book” instead of any feel for the game and thus making way too many moves. We’re looking at you Dave Roberts.

 

Pitchers walking around behind the mound between every pitch and batters stepping out and undoing and retightening their gloves between every pitch are also certainly contributing. MLB is at least trying though, limiting mound visits and a pitch clock are at least steps. The explosion of strikeouts (becasue everyone is trying to hit every pitch 500 feet) isn’t helping either.

 

Anyway, off my baseball soapbox now. I love the shot clock for golf. Simple and effective. And it really shines the light on who is slow in the group as opposed to the entire group being held at fault.

 

No doubt statistics ruined thegame. And will ruin golf. Period. pure forms of both are dead.

[bladehunter]

Here is the answer , if they are slow for more than 2 holes and they lose a hole then disqualify the group . That will stop slow play .

 

No it wouldn’t. It would cause on course fights.

 

 

Bit like convicting everyone in an apartment building if there’s a murder. That will stop murders ? You expect society to completely self police ?

[bscinstnct]

Here is the answer , if they are slow for more than 2 holes and they lose a hole then disqualify the group . That will stop slow play .

 

No it wouldn't. It would cause on course fights.

 

 

Bit like convicting everyone in an apartment building if there's a murder. That will stop murders ? You expect society to completely self police ?

 

Yeah, but

 

Ratings bonanza ; )

 

Spieth and Rickie be like

 

 

 

Lol, ok, I'm done here ; )

[BearQ]

Junior golf is the absolute worst for this. Many will view this as a cop out....but 5-6 hour tournament rounds pushed many great players away from this game.

 

Perhaps we can suck it up to watch someone go low on pga tour. Watching kids do the Bryson/cantlay routine to shoot 82 is gonna send golf into a coma

 

Said it before. That’s on parents and coaches. Prod them in the a** and/or show them what a push mower is instead of playing and it will stop. Asking my 10 year old if he’d rather be working in the yard works to get him to focus on anything. But he begs to play. Never had to twist his arm to play or get on with it. 5 hour rounds aren’t the kids. If it’s a kid. It’s the parents fault. They only get away with what we let them.

 

Now some will say that will drive players away. Maybe so. But if they don’t love this game enough to play and want to play play without artificial motivation they aren’t part of the game anyway.

 

Understand your view. However many juniors don’t even have parents involved, they carpool to events. work backshop to pay for it. I was one of those kids. Majority just copy the norm of what is seen on tour + coaching. I think you’re overestimating the parent influence. It has its claws in some kids, but the majority do not have some super demanding and involved parent.

[IVM]

Here is the answer , if they are slow for more than 2 holes and they lose a hole then disqualify the group . That will stop slow play .

 

No it wouldn’t. It would cause on course fights.

 

 

Bit like convicting everyone in an apartment building if there’s a murder. That will stop murders ? You expect society to completely self police ?

 

You would only have to do it once or twice before everyone got the message !

[deadsolid...shank]

Here is the answer , if they are slow for more than 2 holes and they lose a hole then disqualify the group . That will stop slow play .

 

No it wouldn't. It would cause on course fights.

 

 

Bit like convicting everyone in an apartment building if there's a murder. That will stop murders ? You expect society to completely self police ?

 

Yeah, but

 

Ratings bonanza ; )

 

Spieth and Rickie be like

 

 

 

 

Lol, ok, I'm done here ; )

 

You’re certainly leaving with a bang! That is too funny.....and so appropriate! Well done B.

[Vindog]

Here is the answer , if they are slow for more than 2 holes and they lose a hole then disqualify the group . That will stop slow play .

 

No it wouldn't. It would cause on course fights.

 

 

Bit like convicting everyone in an apartment building if there's a murder. That will stop murders ? You expect society to completely self police ?

 

You would only have to do it once or twice before everyone got the message !

 

No thanks

[Potatohead]

I've been there, so I get it. When I was playing college golf I went through a spell of standing over the ball for a long time and not being able to get comfortable. I was conscious of it and I know it pissed some people off. The only way I got over it was to go to the range and simply force myself to hit the ball, and truthfully it was hard, and my game suffered for a probably a month afterwards because of it.

 

So, as long as these guys are working on it, like Kevin Na did for a while, or Sergio did, I say give them some time to get it sorted out. It really is completely mental.

[manku]

Getting back to MLB, I was a huge fan growing up in 70s/80s...when you watch those older games on ESPN Classic, you notice how much faster they were.

 

I started losing interest in the late 90s watching Jeter...seemed like he was stepping out of the box between every pitch to adjust their gloves...I couldn't take it anymore!

 

I'll watch post season now, but even that can be a slog. And having journalists/announcers tell me that Kershaw had a solid outing giving up 4 runs in 7 innings (including 3 homers) makes me wonder what I'm seeing differently.

[Yuck]

What do Daly, Calc, Craig Stadler, Aphibarnrat, Pat Perez, Angel Cabrera, Lanny Wadkins, Laura Davies, Cristina Kim, and Colt Knost all have in common besides a BMI over 25?

 

They are all much faster than average professional golfers. Maybe Cantlay needs to "Pork it up" a bit so he too can play faster.

[chigolfer1]

He needs to stop taking lessons from Keegan Bradley.

 

I think people are conflating Keegan's "ticks," which may be annoying to them personally, with being slow. Is he really particularly slow?

[chigolfer1]

How would you study that

 

I have no idea. I was just wondering if there was. Rotella or somebody, maybe. Honestly I don't think that it's a conclusion that can be extrapolated across all players either way.

 

Most people agree that the time it takes to make the shot is taken up in large part by the pre shot preparation. The time it takes for the swing itself is mostly irrelevant.

 

The closest "experiment" we have is that euro tourney where they use the clock. Anecdotally, I recall most/many(?) of the players say they ended up loving it and it not impacting the quality of their performance.

[chigolfer1]

https://www.golf.com/tour-news/2018/06/04/patrick-cantlays-slow-pace-riles-social-media-and-nick-faldo

 

Posted in a different thread, not sure if it's in this one. Cantlay is truly ridiculous though.

[OutBackHack]

How would you study that

 

I have no idea. I was just wondering if there was. Rotella or somebody, maybe. Honestly I don't think that it's a conclusion that can be extrapolated across all players either way.

 

Most people agree that the time it takes to make the shot is taken up in large part by the pre shot preparation. The time it takes for the swing itself is mostly irrelevant.

 

The closest "experiment" we have is that euro tourney where they use the clock. Anecdotally, I recall most/many(?) of the players say they ended up loving it and it not impacting the quality of their performance.

 

Euro players not having a stick up their asses (or is it sticks up their a**?)..anyhoo...generally have a better outlook on life.

[aliikane]

It is hard to watch Cantlay because he resets himself so much. However, Sam Horsfield on European tour is worse. He addresses his ball, goes through his waggles, and then grounds his club. Then he literally sits there static not moving for 20 seconds before swinging. Tough to watch.

[Hankshank]

Snedeker. Wriggles his shoulders, taps the ground with his club and away he goes. I like that.

[andrieddle]

Cantlay is the absolute worst and he's not a player that interviews well too, he has this "I'm gonna keep doing it because I can" attitude. Until he can't do it anymore, he won't change.

 

One other good aspect of Rickie's game is also his pace, he doesn't take practice swing, 1 wiggle to get the handle right, step up to the ball, half swing to set the takeaway and fire. Same with his putting, aim, line up, step, lift up and stroke. Tony Finau is also fast on his routine. I like fast playing players.

[nichho]

It is hard to watch Cantlay because he resets himself so much. However, Sam Horsfield on European tour is worse. He addresses his ball, goes through his waggles, and then grounds his club. Then he literally sits there static not moving for 20 seconds before swinging. Tough to watch.

 

The difference is that Horsfield has acknowledged his problem and is working to overcome it. Unlike Cantlay and his ilk who acknowledge that they are 'deliberate' but have no apparent intention to address it.

 

The broadcasters could help the situation by not showing anything of Cantlay, and others, until he has actually hit the ball. This would probably mean them recording all of his shot, deleting all the delays and just inserting the actual shot.

 

It's not ideal as it removes the build up to the shot and there will be no flavour of what they are attempting but we would get that from the quicker players. The other problem here is that it masks the issue of slow play thus ensuring that it will never be addressed.

[Hankshank]

Can he actually gain anything trampling around like that? What does step 30-55 do that step 1-29 doesnt?

[Vindog]

Is he making his shot after the allowable time, though?

[Terry Gold]

I don't really like the other sports analogies, very much. Sometimes they work, but sometimes they don't. Pitchers have to deliver to the plate in a certain time, but still baseball games take for-EVER.

 

But annoying routines aside, is Cantlay or Bradley or anyone else shooting after 40 seconds. Has anyone kept track? I have no idea.

 

I didn't even know that was a baseball rule until now. It's stupid. It's the runner causing the throws to 1st. Not the pitcher. If every idiot didn't try to get a lead halfway to 2nd nobody would throw over.

 

Agreed. Baseball is slow as crap no matter how you cut it. I have a 10 year old who plays to a pretty high level regionally. Each season we have games where even the players are falling asleep it's so boring. Why ? Players aren't taught to swing the bat anymore. They look for perfect pitches and walks. Then try to steal bases. So thegame is 98% pitcher / catcher , pitcher /1st baseman.

 

Do you get paid by the post or something?

You have zero idea what you are talking about. None.

Please stop. It's embarrassing.

[BeerPerHole]

My son's last tournament (kids through teens) us dads were commenting on how slow play is and that we think it might be from what the kids are seeing on tv. It was 20 minutes/hole. Slowest golf I've ever seen firsthand. Kids don't have the sense of urgency us older guys have...haha!

[farmer]

I don't watch much tv golf anymore, so I've not seen Cantlay live. The clips here make me wonder if he has some kind of OCD problem.

[BearQ]

My son's last tournament (kids through teens) us dads were commenting on how slow play is and that we think it might be from what the kids are seeing on tv. It was 20 minutes/hole. Slowest golf I've ever seen firsthand. Kids don't have the sense of urgency us older guys have...haha!

 

This is what I was saying in earlier posts. Majority of sane parents are against this slow play stuff. Kids copy their golf idols far more

[Matt J]

I keep re-reading this thread title and think, "how could he get penalised?"

 

Wouldn't it be much more rare if he were? I've never heard of the PGA Tour giving out a slow play penalty, the amateur kid at the Masters a few years ago... was that for slow play?

 

I agree it would be nice if some kind of pace were enforced. I always thought they should institute some kind of pace rating, so the faster guys could pick their tee times. Seems if you started the day with a quick group and then enforced something when the ensuing groups fell behind and got out of position, you might have something. Seems once a group gets out of position, you could ascertain who in the group was the problem pretty easily by putting them on the clock. Seems if every hour or so you left a 20 or 30 minute hole in the tee sheet and then put a quick group out, you could keep monitoring. In the players' defense, when I've played tournament golf that was PGA Tour slow, 5 - 5.5.+ hours, you start moving slower so you don't have to wait. Walk to the green slower, take longer before you putt. For instance, I can vividly remember the other guys in my 4some all having pretty straightforward putts within 10 feet and I was the only one with a long putt. I looked up and saw 2 groups on the next tee box and thought "where are we going?" So, I walked all the way around the whole and really studied the putt rather than worrying about pace of play. I think that's pretty normal for tournament rounds. It would take some adapting for guys to get used to playing in 4 to 4.5 hours again.