in the aftermath of Brooks Koepka's performance who are legitimate candidates now for the GOAT??

[bscinstnct]

 

> @pgapromex said:

> From tee to green Koepka beats Jack and Tiger in their prime on today's major courses. Jack and Tiger have a slight edge in making clutch putts for the win. Except for last 9 at PGA, I have never seen better ball striking than Koepka.

 

What?!

 

43 year old back fused TW just beat BK at Augusta.

 

You gotta be kidding with that.

 

Even my avatar is laughin ; )

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Conrad1953]

> @jmvargas said:

> > @golfandfishing said:

> > So......greatest of all time, but without the greatest part? And also maybe even without the all time part?

> >

> > > @jmvargas said:

> > > I guess no one read that I said" excluding Jack and Tiger"...

> > > I am just looking at "CANDIDATES"...ie--possible contenders for GOAT --EXCLUDING Jack and Tiger..

> > > purely hypothetical discussion guys!!..

> > > I contend my no. 1 has the best chance and the others down the line lesser and lesser..

> >

> >

>

> > @golfandfishing said:

> > So......greatest of all time, but without the greatest part? And also maybe even without the all time part?

> >

> > > @jmvargas said:

> > > I guess no one read that I said" excluding Jack and Tiger"...

> > > I am just looking at "CANDIDATES"...ie--possible contenders for GOAT --EXCLUDING Jack and Tiger..

> > > purely hypothetical discussion guys!!..

> > > I contend my no. 1 has the best chance and the others down the line lesser and lesser..

> >

> >

>

> ok to make it simpler for you guys..

> ...assuming Jack and Tiger were never born who would have the best chances to be the GOAT among the current crop of golfers in 15 years time??

 

Well, let's see...........Hogan's 65 tour wins including 9 majors....they gotta beat

that so no one. You're gonna have to unborn more than Jack and Tiger, lol.

[farmer]

> @pgapromex said:

> From tee to green Koepka beats Jack and Tiger in their prime on today's major courses. Jack and Tiger have a slight edge in making clutch putts for the win. Except for last 9 at PGA, I have never seen better ball striking than Koepka.

 

Did you ever see Jack or Tiger? In their respective primes, Tiger/Jack is untouchable.

[jmvargas]

> @Conrad1953 said:

> > @jmvargas said:

> > > @golfandfishing said:

> > > So......greatest of all time, but without the greatest part? And also maybe even without the all time part?

> > >

> > > > @jmvargas said:

> > > > I guess no one read that I said" excluding Jack and Tiger"...

> > > > I am just looking at "CANDIDATES"...ie--possible contenders for GOAT --EXCLUDING Jack and Tiger..

> > > > purely hypothetical discussion guys!!..

> > > > I contend my no. 1 has the best chance and the others down the line lesser and lesser..

> > >

> > >

> >

> > > @golfandfishing said:

> > > So......greatest of all time, but without the greatest part? And also maybe even without the all time part?

> > >

> > > > @jmvargas said:

> > > > I guess no one read that I said" excluding Jack and Tiger"...

> > > > I am just looking at "CANDIDATES"...ie--possible contenders for GOAT --EXCLUDING Jack and Tiger..

> > > > purely hypothetical discussion guys!!..

> > > > I contend my no. 1 has the best chance and the others down the line lesser and lesser..

> > >

> > >

> >

> > ok to make it simpler for you guys..

> > ...assuming Jack and Tiger were never born who would have the best chances to be the GOAT among the current crop of golfers in 15 years time??

>

> Well, let's see...........Hogan's 65 tour wins including 9 majors....they gotta beat

> that so no one. You're gonna have to unborn more than Jack and Tiger, lol.

 

ok..to make it more simple...let's start from ZERO..

who among the CURRENT crop would have the best chances to be the GOAT forgetting ALL the golfers in the past??

 

 

 

 

[Conrad1953]

> @jmvargas said:

> > @Conrad1953 said:

> > > @jmvargas said:

> > > > @golfandfishing said:

> > > > So......greatest of all time, but without the greatest part? And also maybe even without the all time part?

> > > >

> > > > > @jmvargas said:

> > > > > I guess no one read that I said" excluding Jack and Tiger"...

> > > > > I am just looking at "CANDIDATES"...ie--possible contenders for GOAT --EXCLUDING Jack and Tiger..

> > > > > purely hypothetical discussion guys!!..

> > > > > I contend my no. 1 has the best chance and the others down the line lesser and lesser..

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > @golfandfishing said:

> > > > So......greatest of all time, but without the greatest part? And also maybe even without the all time part?

> > > >

> > > > > @jmvargas said:

> > > > > I guess no one read that I said" excluding Jack and Tiger"...

> > > > > I am just looking at "CANDIDATES"...ie--possible contenders for GOAT --EXCLUDING Jack and Tiger..

> > > > > purely hypothetical discussion guys!!..

> > > > > I contend my no. 1 has the best chance and the others down the line lesser and lesser..

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > ok to make it simpler for you guys..

> > > ...assuming Jack and Tiger were never born who would have the best chances to be the GOAT among the current crop of golfers in 15 years time??

> >

> > Well, let's see...........Hogan's 65 tour wins including 9 majors....they gotta beat

> > that so no one. You're gonna have to unborn more than Jack and Tiger, lol.

>

> ok..to make it more simple...let's start fro ZERO..

> who among the CURRENT crop would have the best chances to be the GOAT forgetting ALL the golfers in the past??

>

>

>

>

 

With such a low bar it's too soon to tell.............Koepka might get married

and blow the whole thing.............is he engaged yet?

[jmvargas]

> @Conrad1953 said:

> > @jmvargas said:

> > > @Conrad1953 said:

> > > > @jmvargas said:

> > > > > @golfandfishing said:

> > > > > So......greatest of all time, but without the greatest part? And also maybe even without the all time part?

> > > > >

> > > > > > @jmvargas said:

> > > > > > I guess no one read that I said" excluding Jack and Tiger"...

> > > > > > I am just looking at "CANDIDATES"...ie--possible contenders for GOAT --EXCLUDING Jack and Tiger..

> > > > > > purely hypothetical discussion guys!!..

> > > > > > I contend my no. 1 has the best chance and the others down the line lesser and lesser..

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > @golfandfishing said:

> > > > > So......greatest of all time, but without the greatest part? And also maybe even without the all time part?

> > > > >

> > > > > > @jmvargas said:

> > > > > > I guess no one read that I said" excluding Jack and Tiger"...

> > > > > > I am just looking at "CANDIDATES"...ie--possible contenders for GOAT --EXCLUDING Jack and Tiger..

> > > > > > purely hypothetical discussion guys!!..

> > > > > > I contend my no. 1 has the best chance and the others down the line lesser and lesser..

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > ok to make it simpler for you guys..

> > > > ...assuming Jack and Tiger were never born who would have the best chances to be the GOAT among the current crop of golfers in 15 years time??

> > >

> > > Well, let's see...........Hogan's 65 tour wins including 9 majors....they gotta beat

> > > that so no one. You're gonna have to unborn more than Jack and Tiger, lol.

> >

> > ok..to make it more simple...let's start fro ZERO..

> > who among the CURRENT crop would have the best chances to be the GOAT forgetting ALL the golfers in the past??

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> With such a low bar it's too soon to tell.............Koepka might get married

> and blow the whole thing.............is he engaged yet?

 

we're talking 15 years from now..

I see more than 1 having at least 10 majors by then...with BK having the best chance..

[MK7Golf21]

> @bscinstnct said:

> > @cdnglf said:

> > There are no legitimate candidates. None of these guys are going to come close to 15 majors and 81 wins.

>

> Ha! This thread will turn into a full TW vs Jack thread soon complete with my patented Lee Trevino quote that we all know and love ; )

>

> BK is interesting. Guy seems to have that TW 1.0 confidence that he is the best out there. He is very cool under pressure. Even more than TW. TW used to seem pretty keyed up on the first tee, even in his prime. He almost seems bored. I think he has played a mental trick with himself and believes that he is a "true athlete" and of course he should be winning against these "inferior" athletic pretenders no problem.

>

> Also, guy is big for a golfer and seems very durable. Hope he can stay injury free. He seems more like a Jack in that regard.

>

> He just turned 29. If he has 11 more seasons healthy until he turns 40, that gives him 44 chances in his physical prime. I can see why he thinks he can get to 10 or more.

>

>

 

Players get hot for a awhile, win a few majors and then cool off. The greats are able to keep it up for a decade or more. Brooks is only taking over where Speith left over on his hot streak. We will see if he can keep it up but I have my doubts, that’s how golf is. I do think Rory is the only one who comes close to 10

 

[Brock Savage]

> @jmvargas said:

> ok..to make it more simple...let's start from ZERO..

> who among the CURRENT crop would have the best chances to be the GOAT forgetting ALL the golfers in the past??

If we can set any starting conditions, then I have a question:

If we start from zero EXCEPT that Walter Hagen still has his 45 wins and 11 majors, and everybody in the OP's list ends up with ten majors, is Hagen the GOAT?

 

 

[TWshoot67]

> @pgapromex said:

> From tee to green Koepka beats Jack and Tiger in their prime on today's major courses. Jack and Tiger have a slight edge in making clutch putts for the win. Except for last 9 at PGA, I have never seen better ball striking than Koepka.

Obviously you didn’t watch Jack or Tiger in their prime. No offense to BK but not even close to their ball striking skills. Tiger 81 wins and you’re putting him in same level as Tiger? Crazy! 18 majors and you’re saying better tee to green then Jack? Nuts!

 

[dlygrisse]

Let me know when Brooks wins 10 more majors. Only then does he enter the discussion.

 

Brooks May be to Tiger, what Watson was to Jack, if he ever reaches 8 majors it would be impressive

[RobertBaron]

Taking Jack and Tiger out of the equation, the first of Brooks, McIlroy, Spieth and possibly (a long shot) DJ to get to 7 before age 35 will probably be on the right track.

[rafal]

Every time I tuned into golf discussions in the fall of 2018, Cameron Champ was on that list.

[Titleist_PT23]

A more realistic question is will any of the current young players rank ahead of Phil when they are done? While not impossible, I don't think any of them will match Phil's win total. Koepka, Rory, and Spieth have a legitimate shot to be ahead of him in majors by the time they are done.

 

In my view, DJ has the potential, not only game but he still has just enough time left, to make it interesting. But he would need to start winning the big ones, and he'd need to win 2x per year for the next decade into his mid-40s. I'd actually give him a better shot at winning 4 majors than another 20 tournaments, just as the 4 majors can theoretically be won in a shorter time frame (being a top player for another decade is asking a lot).

 

Of the others listed, Thomas has the most potential. He needs to go on a run like any of the top 3 guys have had and then he'd be in the same spot. Rose and Day are out simply due to age/health. Fowler may eventually win a major (or two), but I don't think he's at that level. Xander and Rahm need to win 1. They could turn out to be the next Koepka or they could be the next Fowler.

[Titleist_PT23]

> @jmvargas said:

> we're talking 15 years from now..

> I see more than 1 having at least 10 majors by then...with BK having the best chance..

What do you think are the odds that Koepka gets to 10 majors? I.e. what odds would it take for you to make a meaningful bet (like 10% of your net worth)? Based on the above it seems like you think it's even money?

 

Honestly, I think this is a recency bias. There's no disputing that his play has been amazing. And people making the bet on Tiger after 2000 (had 5 majors) would have got it right. But that's one time it's happened. Consider:

 

a) In the last (roughly) 30 years, excluding Tiger the most major wins are Faldo = 6, Mickelson = 5, Els/Rory/Koepka = 4. It's impossible to say what the stats would look like if Tiger had not come along. If you listen to Phil's comments, Tiger made him better. Els seems to be the other way saying his confidence was dinged. But it's not like either of them are knocking on the door for double digits.

 

b) Koepka's run right now does exceed that of Rory (4 in 4 years), Spieth (3 in 3 years), Harrington (3 in 3 years), and Nick Price (3 in 3 years). I'm not saying he (Brooks) can't do it but I'd take the odds that he runs into a cold streak, competition changes, etc before saying he splits the difference and ends up with 10.

[Cincy_Ken]

> @agolf1 said:

> A more realistic question is will any of the current young players rank ahead of Phil when they are done? While not impossible, I don't think any of them will match Phil's win total. Koepka, Rory, and Spieth have a legitimate shot to be ahead of him in majors by the time they are done.

>

> In my view, DJ has the potential, not only game but he still has just enough time left, to make it interesting. But he would need to start winning the big ones, and he'd need to win 2x per year for the next decade into his mid-40s. I'd actually give him a better shot at winning 4 majors than another 20 tournaments, just as the 4 majors can theoretically be won in a shorter time frame (being a top player for another decade is asking a lot).

>

> Of the others listed, Thomas has the most potential. He needs to go on a run like any of the top 3 guys have had and then he'd be in the same spot. Rose and Day are out simply due to age/health. Fowler may eventually win a major (or two), but I don't think he's at that level. Xander and Rahm need to win 1. They could turn out to be the next Koepka or they could be the next Fowler.

 

DJ and Phil is actually pretty close. Of course when Phil won his first major he won in three consecutive years to run his total up quickly. DJ feels much the same that he's capable of having a Phil type run where he starts to cash in the ones he had been throwing away. And I don't see any reason he can't get to 40 tour wins. He's been very consistent with multiple win seasons and he's probably got 5+ more prime years. Throw in some 3-5 win seasons which he does and I see him getting 35-40 wins.

[Ferguson]

Bruce is no GOAT, not with those hats.

[widow-maker]

To be a dominant player like Jack or Tiger??? It doesn't feel like there is one at the moment. Koepka is obviously the closest at the moment, but we need to see a little more to determine if he has lasting power. You need to dominate whoever your peers are, whatever their level of play is. It's easy to say that there's more parity, but the whole premise of GOAT is that no matter the competition you dominate it, making the competition look weak in comparison to you. Koepka has done it in majors for the last two years. Tiger and Jack did it for a decade, and posted dominating wins totals in events outside of the Majors. If Brooks can keep it up for a decade, he puts himself into the conversation. Other guys on the list have already crossed themselves off because of staying power. I guess Rory could resurrect, but it doesn't look like that's happening when watching his form of late.

[Ferguson]

In all seriousness, Brooks is having a great run. Time has shown, they "runs" don't last.

In other words, let's not put the cart before the horse.

 

Re: Again, Brooks, specifically

Revisit the topic when he turns 36.

[Titleist_PT23]

> @Cincy_Ken said:

> > @agolf1 said:

> > A more realistic question is will any of the current young players rank ahead of Phil when they are done? While not impossible, I don't think any of them will match Phil's win total. Koepka, Rory, and Spieth have a legitimate shot to be ahead of him in majors by the time they are done.

> >

> > In my view, DJ has the potential, not only game but he still has just enough time left, to make it interesting. But he would need to start winning the big ones, and he'd need to win 2x per year for the next decade into his mid-40s. I'd actually give him a better shot at winning 4 majors than another 20 tournaments, just as the 4 majors can theoretically be won in a shorter time frame (being a top player for another decade is asking a lot).

> >

> > Of the others listed, Thomas has the most potential. He needs to go on a run like any of the top 3 guys have had and then he'd be in the same spot. Rose and Day are out simply due to age/health. Fowler may eventually win a major (or two), but I don't think he's at that level. Xander and Rahm need to win 1. They could turn out to be the next Koepka or they could be the next Fowler.

>

> DJ and Phil is actually pretty close. Of course when Phil won his first major he won in three consecutive years to run his total up quickly. DJ feels much the same that he's capable of having a Phil type run where he starts to cash in the ones he had been throwing away. And I don't see any reason he can't get to 40 tour wins. He's been very consistent with multiple win seasons and he's probably got 5+ more prime years. Throw in some 3-5 win seasons which he does and I see him getting 35-40 wins.

I just think in the first sentence "is" needs to be "could be." All of Phil's majors came at/after DJ's current age so it could be done by someone with this type of game. However, there does seem to be a drop-off after 40 for most guys. I wouldn't expect DJ to be winning multiple times per year from 40-45 and the number of repeat major winners in that age group also slims down. So basically I give him 5 seasons in which he needs to do a serious amount of the damage - like 3 wins per year or 15 wins total and at least 3 majors. Possible yes, but I'd take the under at even money.

 

If you want to paint a bull case for 10 majors, it's that Mickelson with his 11 seconds was not that far away. At least in terms of only needing a few shots that needed to go a bit different. Obviously, 5 is only half of 10, which puts him a long way away in actual wins. Some of his seconds he wasn't really close like the 2015 Masters (Spieth) or 2002 US Open (Woods). Some of the others like the 2014 PGA (Rory), 1999 US Open (Payne Stewart), or 2004 US Open (Goosen) he lost to a highly capable player, and it's hard to say how this is really different than the 2004 Masters that he won. You also have to consider that his odds of winning at Murfield weren't high but he has that one. There were a few 2nds where he started way back, and it's hard to realistically say he pulls all or most of these off.

 

Personally, I think the 2006 US Open is the only one he really blew (leading after 71 holes). Maybe the 2013 US Open as there were a bunch of bad shots in the final round, but leading by 1 on a brutal course and not winning isn't exactly imploding. I also think some of the better chances he had to win were cases that didn't end up in 2nds; 2009 Masters (shot 30 on the front 9 and then ended it in the water on #12 and a couple of short missed putts), 2012 Masters (played in final group with a lesser player and made a triple on #4 to take him out of it), and maybe the 2010 US Open (DJ's blow-up opened the door).

 

Anyways, this is all could of happened. I'm just not ready to extrapolate Koepka's last 2-3 years for another decade.

[QuigleyDU]

> @bscinstnct said:

>

> > @pgapromex said:

> > From tee to green Koepka beats Jack and Tiger in their prime on today's major courses. Jack and Tiger have a slight edge in making clutch putts for the win. Except for last 9 at PGA, I have never seen better ball striking than Koepka.

>

> What?!

>

> 43 year old back fused TW just beat BK at Augusta.

>

> You gotta be kidding with that.

>

> Even my avatar is laughin ; )

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

I keep saying it, but Augusta is the only place where Tiger can be a regular major threat. The course favors experience and you do not have to be accurate off the tee.

[NGrapp1]

Of the 3 players to go on a Tiger-like run (Rory, Jordan, Brooks), I think Brooks has been the most impressive. I know Rory had a couple 8 shot major wins in there, but Brooks is the only one who has reminded me of Tiger in the slightest. I think he already carries an intimidation factor about him -- he talked a big game before the PGA and then promptly backed it up. Also helps that he is physically imposing.

 

Koepka definitely has 7+ major win potential. Rory has the best golf swing I've ever seen, but he's been missing something for years. I just don't think he has the killer instinct anymore -- dude looks lackadaisical out there at times. The only other young player in the game, as of right now, that I think has a chance to become an all time great is Rahm, but even that's unlikely. Maybe JT, but if I had to venture a guess, I'd say he wins 1 or 2 more majors max.

 

Getting to 10 is too difficult in today's game given how many solid players there are.

[Titleist_PT23]

I can't comment on anyone else's opinion. But it's hard for me to believe the same things weren't said about Rory in 2014. The guy had won two majors by 8 shots, didn't allow anyone to catch him at the Open, and won a hard fought PGA when things weren't going perfect. Yes, things changed for whatever reason but August 2014 Rory and May 2019 Koepka are basically the same thing.

 

A while back there was a thread comparing Adam Scott to Justin Rose. Just looking at the numbers, Adam Scott's career is better. But more than half the people said Rose had a better career. Other than recency, the Olympic Gold is really the only point in Rose's favor. Some people even claimed that at ANY point in time they would picked Rose. Hard to believe when Scott had a Players Championship and 2x the wins that Rose had.

 

Not saying Brooks won't keep it going or end up as the best player post-Tiger but I think a lot of this talk is jaded by the most recent events.

[bscinstnct]

> @Ferguson said:

> In all seriousness, Brooks is having a great run. Time has shown, they "runs" don't last.

> In other words, let's not put the cart before the horse.

>

> Re: Again, Brooks, specifically

> Revisit the topic when he turns 36.

 

It's a great time for him to make a big run. For all the talk of uber deep fields, check out the OWGR.

 

It just ain't that hot.

 

You got, get this, Paul Casey at #13. Rickie at #10. Justin Rose is like 40 years old and has one major and is #3!

 

You got good guys, sure, but none of them are hard closers. If 43 year old back fused TW is #6

 

How deep are these fields really?

 

BK should bear down and breakthrough where Rory, Jordan, JT can't seem to for now. If he stays focused, he should find himself with 8 majors by his mid 30s and at the door of the hallowed grounds. The Valhalla of golf. The 10+ major club where only 3 guys can hang up their hats.

[golfandfishing]

The OP clearly doesn’t understand that, what he really means is “hottest player right now” but with today’s short attention spans and ignorance of anything not on instachatbook the term “all time” really means in the 10 minutes since a Kardashian had a baby.

> @illum1na71 said:

> With GOAT, there's got to be some longevity there. It's of ALL TIME, not the last 3 years. So, I would let his wins marinate over the next 10 years and who knows if he picks up 6 more Majors in that timeframe we can have this convo.

 

 

[2putttom]

> @Conrad1953 said:

> Next GOAT is gonna have to win 100 tour events including 20 majors.

> Good luck with that.

 

especially with the talent of today's professional's

[Ferguson]

> @golfandfishing said:

> The OP clearly doesn’t understand that, what he really means is “hottest player right now” but with today’s short attention spans and ignorance of anything not on instachatbook the term “all time” really means in the 10 minutes since a Kardashian had a baby.

> > @illum1na71 said:

> > With GOAT, there's got to be some longevity there. It's of ALL TIME, not the last 3 years. So, I would let his wins marinate over the next 10 years and who knows if he picks up 6 more Majors in that timeframe we can have this convo.

>

>

 

The short attention span syndrome or SASS as it's called, driven by the over-consumption of highly caffeinated beverages, is an endless search for the next stimulus. Brooks and his win at the PGA, despite the outrageous behavior from the crowds, driven by the over-consumption of alcoholic beverages, is already a distant memory.

[buckeyefl]

> @pgapromex said:

> From tee to green Koepka beats Jack and Tiger in their prime on today's major courses. Jack and Tiger have a slight edge in making clutch putts for the win. Except for last 9 at PGA, I have never seen better ball striking than Koepka.

 

Thats so adorable.

[PowderedToastMan]

Brooks has only 6 PGA Tour wins. Granted, 4 are majors, which is incredibly impressive, but at some point he'll have to start churning out more regular tour wins. Tom Watson, compared to the rest of the greats, has relatively few PGA tour wins, but still has 39 (tied 11th all time).

 

So Brooks has essentially 15 more years to get 4 more majors and 33 more regular PGA Tour wins to catch Watson, who isn't even close to sniffing GOAT status. Consider that Tiger has 75 more PGA Tour wins than Brooks and 11 more majors. Nobody from the group you've compiled has any real chance at reaching those numbers. Even reaching Watson's numbers is a stretch for Brooks.

[melo]

Arnie, Jack, Tiger, Watson, Trevino, Faldo and Hogan are the only modern players to ever win 6 majors in 10 years. That is what would be required of Rory or BK to get to 10...and of those, only Jack and Tiger ever got to 10. If we include Hagen, he had a stretch of 8 in 10 years and got to 11. That's 100 years of golf. You'll have to pardon me if I don't believe the guys who are 30 before winning even their 5th are going on that kind of run.

[Hawkeye77]

> @pgapromex said:

> From tee to green Koepka beats Jack and Tiger in their prime on today's major courses. Jack and Tiger have a slight edge in making clutch putts for the win. Except for last 9 at PGA, I have never seen better ball striking than Koepka.

 

Would you like cream with your peyote?