My Paper Tiger journey / 1 year full time golfer job starts Monday 7-1-19

[grantc79]

@Krt22 said:

> Uhh, with your hips in that torture device, they are definitely locked in place.

 

> @drewtaylor21 said:

> > @grantc79 said:

> > Realistically you have Bubba and Koepka and Moe Norman and the Wolff kid and everything in between

> >

> > The point isn't what is your handicap and does that make you right because no one would train a new player to swing like that Wolff kid that won yesterday

> >

> > **The question is from a bio mechanical standpoint which is a more natural move for the body which leads to less injury and better golf

> >

> > That is a better question for Drs than golfers **

> >

Lets try it again, approach it like its science and you don't already have your answers. Just consider THIS POST and if you still disagree fine but at least you will understand what you are arguing.

 

**_WATCH THE WHOLE 26 SECONDS OF VIDEO. _**

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IA20VojCVVk

 

From down the line I appear to be locked in the hips. From face on you can see that I'm practicing internally rotating into my right hip, my left knee drops towards my right foot as I internally rotate into it.

Cue Brooks Koepka.....

 

Very beginning of the video you will see Koepka loading with internal rotation into his right hip with his left knee dropping towards his toes. He is WAAAY more flexible than me and he loads way better than me. But the move is the same.

 

I turn 40 tomorrow and my takeaway is still LONGER than Tony Finau (WITH ZERO external hip rotation in my backswing) who generates silly ball speed so I would hope we would agree you don't have to take it back a mile to generate speed see Rahm, Finau, others. In this contraption I can still generate well over 90 mph with a 6 iron which is plenty.

 

At the very end of the video you will see my down swing rehearsal which is me tranfering my weight to my lead foot, internally rotating into my lead/left leg, and maintaining that knee flex through impact and beyond. This is taboo, we probably won't agree on this part. That's fine we can actually debate this.

 

Cue Zdeno Chara one of the hardest slapshots in NHL history. Stable lead leg, internally rotating into that knee.

 

Cue Aroldis Chapman notice internal rotation into back hip in windup, internal rotation into a BENT FRONT LEG at release. He doesn't jump into that release, if anything he does the opposite. Straightening those legs aren't giving him power.

 

 

[drewtaylor21]

> @grantc79 said:

>

> You do realize, just because I'm not EXTERNALLY rotating my hips doesn't mean I am locking my hips in place and trying not to move them at all. There is such a thing as INTERNAL rotation.

>

> If you look at Koepka for example he internally rotates into his right hip EXTREMELY well in his back swing. From address to top his right knee has barely moved backwards, his right hip has barely moved backwards, but his hips aren't LOCKED like all of you are suggesting that I am doing. He is INTERNALLY rotating INTO his hip.

>

> If you look at the baseball pitcher, hockey player, and numerous other things it involves a ton of internal hip rotation not just spin your hips like many people think.

>

> Where the debate will rage is just how hard and how much you should internally and externally rotate your left hip in the down swing.

>

>

>

>

>

Koepka has very little trail hip internal rotation, certainly far less than the examples I posted of DJ, Rory, and Bubba. What about his move makes you think he is internally rotating EXTREMELY well?

The "alcatraz" limits trail hip internal rotation to the extreme, which is why I've been trying to tell you it is a bad idea, especially given the range of motion I see from you in the video you posted. All you can do with that device is slide right (trail hip adduction) and rotate your spine - this is not how world class hitters in any sport behave.

 

The odd thing to me is that you then correctly identify that other sports DO involve trail hip internal rotation to a great degree. Exactly my point and why I compared Aroldis' motion in the windup to Bubba's motion in the swing - both of their butts are facing the target in the "backswing." Massive internal rotation of the trail hip, which equals healthy, powerful rotation! Why do you want to limit that?

[grantc79]

> @drewtaylor21 said:

> Koepka has very little trail hip internal rotation, certainly far less than the examples I posted of DJ, Rory, and Bubba. What about his move makes you think he is internally rotating EXTREMELY well?

> The "alcatraz" limits trail hip internal rotation to the extreme, which is why I've been trying to tell you it is a bad idea, especially given the range of motion I see from you in the video you posted. All you can do with that device is slide right (trail hip adduction) and rotate your spine - this is not how world class hitters in any sport behave.

>

> The odd thing to me is that you then correctly identify that other sports DO involve trail hip internal rotation to a great degree. Exactly my point and why I compared Aroldis' motion in the windup to Bubba's motion in the swing - both of their butts are facing the target in the "backswing." Massive internal rotation of the trail hip, which equals healthy, powerful rotation! Why do you want to limit that?

 

Maintained knee flex in trail leg, lead leg knee moves towards trail leg foot, obvious lateral weight shift, trail leg hip does not rotate backwards. From an anatomy standpoint its pretty much impossible to take the club back with those traits and not have a strong load into your hip.

 

It limits your external hip rotation to an extreme. Internal hip rotation is limited to somewhere around 30 degrees from what I understand.

 

I think where we are hung up is I don't want to generate a ton of external rotation in an effort to create more internal rotation.......

 

A key point to note and you may or may not choose to experiment with this, my swing speed goes up as my external hip rotation lessens. Basically the more I put the brakes on external hip rotation the more coil I feel going backwards and also the more whip I get coming through because I'm not simply holding on for dear life and spinning.

 

 

 

[grantc79]

> @drewtaylor21 said:

 

Is it necessary to externally rotate the hip to generate more turn? Does this create more power? Will this allow you to load the right hip better in any way shape or form?

In my case I PERSONALLY have found it doesn't generate anymore power to release the coil I feel throughout my left side and right leg by allowing my right hip to rotate backwards so I can get more turn.

 

In fact it only lengthens my swing and COSTS me speed.

 

My coach has interviewed physical therapists, doctors, and studied tons of stuff to arrive at this. I was on the fence on it and wasn't sure about it and actually spoke to the other local coach who told me "you don't have to do it but I teach the exact same thing because its the best way to swing a golf club"

 

This is my coach:

http://www.robnoelgolfacademy.com/

 

He was Patrick Reed's coach until he graduated college, John Riegger's coach who plays on the senior tour, Brian Watts who damn near won the British Open, Ken Looper web.com tour, Casey Crain web.com tour, Kelly Gibson PGA Tour, Tommy Moore PGA Tour, Jacob Bergeron who qualified for the US Open last year and was top 12 amateur in the world, half the LSU golf team mens and womens for going on a decade, countless others.

 

This is the other guy who I spoke to who invented the D-Plane:

https://blog.trackmangolf.com/understanding-d-plane-james-leitz/

https://suncountrypga.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/James-Leitz-Bio.pdf

 

 

These guys aren't idiots giving lessons at the local driving range. I'm not telling you that you should believe they are right and be converted. But what I am saying to you is this isn't my thoughts, these are THEIR thoughts and if you truly are seeking the best possible way to play golf you should at least CONSIDER a different point of view.

 

Be a scientist, research it without preconceived notions and see where you wind up.

 

[drewtaylor21]

> @grantc79 said:

> > @drewtaylor21 said:

> > Koepka has very little trail hip internal rotation, certainly far less than the examples I posted of DJ, Rory, and Bubba. What about his move makes you think he is internally rotating EXTREMELY well?

> > The "alcatraz" limits trail hip internal rotation to the extreme, which is why I've been trying to tell you it is a bad idea, especially given the range of motion I see from you in the video you posted. All you can do with that device is slide right (trail hip adduction) and rotate your spine - this is not how world class hitters in any sport behave.

> >

> > The odd thing to me is that you then correctly identify that other sports DO involve trail hip internal rotation to a great degree. Exactly my point and why I compared Aroldis' motion in the windup to Bubba's motion in the swing - both of their butts are facing the target in the "backswing." Massive internal rotation of the trail hip, which equals healthy, powerful rotation! Why do you want to limit that?

>

> Maintained knee flex in trail leg, lead leg knee moves towards trail leg foot, obvious lateral weight shift, trail leg hip does not rotate backwards. From an anatomy standpoint its pretty much impossible to take the club back with those traits and not have a strong load into your hip.

>

> It limits your external hip rotation to an extreme. Internal hip rotation is limited to somewhere around 30 degrees from what I understand.

>

> I think where we are hung up is I don't want to generate a ton of external rotation in an effort to create more internal rotation.......

>

> A key point to note and you may or may not choose to experiment with this, my swing speed goes up as my external hip rotation lessens. Basically the more I put the brakes on external hip rotation the more coil I feel going backwards and also the more whip I get coming through because I'm not simply holding on for dear life and spinning.

>

>

>

 

I'm a bit lost with your descriptions, honestly it sounds like you may have hip internal and external rotation confused.

Here is an example of massive trail hip internal rotation.

Are we on the same page there?

[toc]

Oh man this is freakin great

[b_f_c_99]

OP you may want to google George Ganakas matchup videos. He does a great job of explaining how different swings work. I see nothing but bad with that pvc cage. All sorts of ways to swing a club effectively if you put the right pieces together, and then learn to tune out the other bs.

[grantc79]

> @drewtaylor21 said:

 

> Are we on the same page there?

 

From my point of view I would argue not really. In my mind in order to get internal hip rotation it needs to be rotating against something. Its hard for me to say that hes internally rotating into his hip when his back leg hip has rotated so far to the back that its way out of the way.

 

Forgive the odd analogy but can you close or open a revolving hotel lobby door? In order to coil hard you must coil against a stable object. If what you are coiling into simply rotates almost indefinitely backwards then its very hard to coil into it.

 

The reason I use Koepka as an example is because he internally loads into his trail leg while not swinging/opening that hip backwards like in the picture above.

Koepka's actual hips may have OPENED 5 degrees max at the top of his swing. In that pic his hips have opened a ton.

 

How can you load/coil energy/power into an unstable object?

 

 

[slprince67]

Man.... the golf swing sounds really hard after reading 7 pages of this stuff.....

[grantc79]

https://www.golfchannel.com/video/foley-factor-breaking-down-bryson-dechambeaus-swing

Once again there are a million ways to skin the cat, Bryson (whos swing I love and tried to emulate for awhile) seemingly just rotates throughout the whole thing.

I love his swing, I love how different he is and it is. Obviously a hell of a golfer. Obviously generates a ton of speed with it too. I don't see a ton of internal hip loading like a Koepka in his swing at all and he makes it work like a charm.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[grantc79]

> @slprince67 said:

> Man.... the golf swing sounds really hard after reading 7 pages of this stuff.....

 

I know right lol

[grantc79]

> @b_f_c_99 said:

> OP you may want to google George Ganakas matchup videos. He does a great job of explaining how different swings work. I see nothing but bad with that pvc cage. All sorts of ways to swing a club effectively if you put the right pieces together, and then learn to tune out the other bs.

 

Yah see this post above:

 

My coach has interviewed physical therapists, doctors, and studied tons of stuff to arrive at this. I was on the fence on it and wasn't sure about it and actually spoke to the other local coach who told me "you don't have to do it but I teach the exact same thing because its the best way to swing a golf club"

 

This is my coach:

http://www.robnoelgolfacademy.com/

 

He was Patrick Reed's coach until he graduated college, John Riegger's coach who plays on the senior tour, Brian Watts who **** near won the British Open, Ken Looper web.com tour, Casey Crain web.com tour, Kelly Gibson PGA Tour, Tommy Moore PGA Tour, Jacob Bergeron who qualified for the US Open last year and was top 12 amateur in the world, half the LSU golf team mens and womens for going on a decade, countless others.

 

This is the other guy who I spoke to who invented the D-Plane:

https://blog.trackmangolf.com/understanding-d-plane-james-leitz/

https://suncountrypga.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/James-Leitz-Bio.pdf

 

These guys aren't idiots giving lessons at the local driving range. I'm not telling you that you should believe they are right and be converted. But what I am saying to you is this isn't my thoughts, these are THEIR thoughts and if you truly are seeking the best possible way to play golf you should at least CONSIDER a different point of view.

[Railroading13]

Just because a teacher is in Golf Digest's "top 100" does not mean they are good

[slprince67]

I love the fact that you are taking a year off to work on your game. Why dont you let the teacher work with what you have.... You have cited examples of Finau, Koepka and Dechambeau and trying to emulate their swings. Finau and Koepka are freak athletes. These guys are kids, I think you said you were 40..... Things change as you age, think long term, Try playing golf at 50 or 60 with no hip turn it will be ugly. Own your own swing, work on what the teacher tells you..... Play and practice. Your swing is not terrible, but I think if you keep using that PVC contraption it will not end up good.

[grantc79]

Going back to the living room to putt and do drills, will say this though.

 

I have no problem having a friendly discussion with a guy like Drew on the topic because I get the sense that even if he disagrees he isn't here to fight and generally be an internet troll.

 

I didn't create the thread to discuss my swing coach or my swing changes that I'm making. Everyone demanded I post videos of my swing and what I'm working on and then when I finally did so everyone turned into Butch Harmon. I have two amazing local coaches that I could go see both with amazing track records and credentials that trump pretty much everyone who is trying to argue with me in this thread (I purposely am not lumping Drew in with the aforementioned because he doesn't seem to be here to argue and does teach for a living it seems).

 

I made a post to chronicle my journey for the next year and get great short game, course management, and mental approach advice.

 

Please don't be mad if I don't take your unsolicited swing advice.

 

I don't see myself going to my coach and saying "ya that's well and good and all but Powdered Toast Man from Golfwrx disagrees so we can stop that right there"

 

I'm rolling with the guy who teaches the guys on TV for better or worse.

 

 

[Krt22]

> @grantc79 said:

> > @b_f_c_99 said:

> > OP you may want to google George Ganakas matchup videos. He does a great job of explaining how different swings work. I see nothing but bad with that pvc cage. All sorts of ways to swing a club effectively if you put the right pieces together, and then learn to tune out the other bs.

>

> Yah see this post above:

>

> My coach has interviewed physical therapists, doctors, and studied tons of stuff to arrive at this. I was on the fence on it and wasn't sure about it and actually spoke to the other local coach who told me "you don't have to do it but I teach the exact same thing because its the best way to swing a golf club"

>

> This is my coach:

> http://www.robnoelgolfacademy.com/

>

> He was Patrick Reed's coach until he graduated college, John Riegger's coach who plays on the senior tour, Brian Watts who **** near won the British Open, Ken Looper web.com tour, Casey Crain web.com tour, Kelly Gibson PGA Tour, Tommy Moore PGA Tour, Jacob Bergeron who qualified for the US Open last year and was top 12 amateur in the world, half the LSU golf team mens and womens for going on a decade, countless others.

>

> This is the other guy who I spoke to who invented the D-Plane:

> https://blog.trackmangolf.com/understanding-d-plane-james-leitz/

> https://suncountrypga.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/James-Leitz-Bio.pdf

>

> These guys aren't idiots giving lessons at the local driving range. I'm not telling you that you should believe they are right and be converted. But what I am saying to you is this isn't my thoughts, these are THEIR thoughts and if you truly are seeking the best possible way to play golf you should at least CONSIDER a different point of view.

 

Yeah given how woefully you misinterpreted the Tiger/Butch segment, it would not surprise me if what they actually teach and what you think they are teaching are actually two different things. Many many students can take tidbits of instruction/information incorrectly or take certain things and way over do it.

 

Either way, the restricted hip turn concept has largely been discredited/disbunked and a handful of pros that still do it does not proof that it's "the best possible way to play golf". Heck the first pro you mention is Patrick Reed, who has a full turn with plenty of right leg extension.

[drewtaylor21]

> @grantc79 said:

> > @drewtaylor21 said:

>

> > Are we on the same page there?

>

> From my point of view I would argue not really. In my mind in order to get internal hip rotation it needs to be rotating against something. Its hard for me to say that hes internally rotating into his hip when his back leg hip has rotated so far to the back that its way out of the way.

>

> Forgive the odd analogy but can you close or open a revolving hotel lobby door? In order to coil hard you must coil against a stable object. If what you are coiling into simply rotates almost indefinitely backwards then its very hard to coil into it.

 

I see. Good news is that it's a fairly simple misunderstanding of anatomy - if you want to look into it more, read up on "open chain vs. closed chain hip internal rotation." As long as the trail foot is planted (closed chain), the femur is fixed and the player can turn/load/coil into the hip. If the foot was not planted, then you would have the situation you've described where you just spin. Thus, the more you can turn into the hip, the greater "coil" you'll have in the hips, more power, less strain on the lumbar spine, etc. Win-win.

 

>

> The reason I use Koepka as an example is because he internally loads into his trail leg while not swinging/opening that hip backwards like in the picture above.

> Koepka's actual hips may have OPENED 5 degrees max at the top of his swing. In that pic his hips have opened a ton.

>

Koepka has very little trail hip internal rotation, yes. Koepka and Finau are very rare in terms of high speed guys who don't turn very far - definitely not the norm. Nicklaus, on the other hand, has a lot of trail hip internal rotation, as do most of the greats and most of the best ball strikers (and every long driver ever - what does that tell you?). My guess is that the restricted motion you're drilling "feels" tight and coiled, which leads you to believe it is a more powerful position for you. What I'm suggesting is that you are coiling in the wrong places if you are restricting hip rotation, and that you might be able to swing decently that way for a while but that eventually it will likely result in injury or pain.

 

Here is one of the best examples I could give you. As a 14 year old girl, Wie was able to keep up with some of the PGA Tour guys off the tee at the Sony Open in 2004, and she had an incredibly bright future. While she has had a nice career, injury and other issues have resulted in underachievement. Take a look at her swing in 2004 vs. what she's been seen working on. Oh by the way, her coach who changed what WAS a beautiful and powerful swing has been in the "top 100" forever. I'm not a swing expert, but I am an expert in the human body and it absolutely makes me CRINGE to see what she's been taught. Restriction of the lower body is not a good idea!

2004

 

2018

[airjammer]

They should have another pga and teaching summit to roast Leadbetter over what he allowed Wie to do to her swing.

[grantc79]

> @drewtaylor21 said:

> > @grantc79 said:

> > > @drewtaylor21 said:

> >

> > > Are we on the same page there?

> >

> > From my point of view I would argue not really. In my mind in order to get internal hip rotation it needs to be rotating against something. Its hard for me to say that hes internally rotating into his hip when his back leg hip has rotated so far to the back that its way out of the way.

> >

> > Forgive the odd analogy but can you close or open a revolving hotel lobby door? In order to coil hard you must coil against a stable object. If what you are coiling into simply rotates almost indefinitely backwards then its very hard to coil into it.

>

> I see. Good news is that it's a fairly simple misunderstanding of anatomy - if you want to look into it more, read up on "open chain vs. closed chain hip internal rotation." As long as the trail foot is planted (closed chain), the femur is fixed and the player can turn/load/coil into the hip. If the foot was not planted, then you would have the situation you've described where you just spin. Thus, the more you can turn into the hip, the greater "coil" you'll have in the hips, more power, less strain on the lumbar spine, etc. Win-win.

>

> >

> > The reason I use Koepka as an example is because he internally loads into his trail leg while not swinging/opening that hip backwards like in the picture above.

> > Koepka's actual hips may have OPENED 5 degrees max at the top of his swing. In that pic his hips have opened a ton.

> >

> Koepka has very little trail hip internal rotation, yes. Koepka and Finau are very rare in terms of high speed guys who don't turn very far - definitely not the norm. Nicklaus, on the other hand, has a lot of trail hip internal rotation, as do most of the greats and most of the best ball strikers (and every long driver ever - what does that tell you?). My guess is that the restricted motion you're drilling "feels" tight and coiled, which leads you to believe it is a more powerful position for you. What I'm suggesting is that you are coiling in the wrong places if you are restricting hip rotation, and that you might be able to swing decently that way for a while but that eventually it will likely result in injury or pain.

>

> Here is one of the best examples I could give you. As a 14 year old girl, Wie was able to keep up with some of the PGA Tour guys off the tee at the Sony Open in 2004, and she had an incredibly bright future. While she has had a nice career, injury and other issues have resulted in underachievement. Take a look at her swing in 2004 vs. what she's been seen working on. Oh by the way, her coach who changed what WAS a beautiful and powerful swing has been in the "top 100" forever. I'm not a swing expert, but I am an expert in the human body and it absolutely makes me CRINGE to see what she's been taught. Restriction of the lower body is not a good idea!

>

> 2004

>

>

> 2018

 

That bottom Michelle Wie picture is not what I'm doing.

 

The picture shows someone actively trying to not allow internal hip rotation by holding the left knee in place in the backswing.

 

That is the exact opposite of what I'm being taught.

 

What I am bring taught is the top picture knee and hip action with less opening of the hips.

[JeffreySpicoli]

> @grantc79 said:

> I understand it's contrary to what's always been taught but at the end of the day quoting Sam Snead and all the old golfers isn't really applicable

>

> they were all around pre trackman and frankly before we truly understood how the human body works

>

> A golfers back pain level from the 1950s swinging a wooden club seems pretty ancient to me

>

> That's the equivalent of putting leeches on your broken arm ?

 

We have nothing to learn from Sam Snead? This sure smells like a troll thread!

[Krt22]

> @matthewb said:

> > @grantc79 said:

> > I understand it's contrary to what's always been taught but at the end of the day quoting Sam Snead and all the old golfers isn't really applicable

> >

> > they were all around pre trackman and frankly before we truly understood how the human body works

> >

> > A golfers back pain level from the 1950s swinging a wooden club seems pretty ancient to me

> >

> > That's the equivalent of putting leeches on your broken arm ?

>

> We have nothing to learn from Sam Snead? This sure smells like a troll thread!

 

Unfortunately I don't think it is, instead the OP is exhibiting all the classic downfalls of why a lot of golfer's don't ever reach their full potential. Fundamental misunderstanding of certain things and misunderstanding of causation/correlation. The fact that BK is his model is very much proof of that, he thinks/assumes BK is a great golfer due to his hip action. Well if it works for Brooks, it will work for me and I will be a great golfer, right? BKs hip action is one of those things that works for a world class athlete, that doesn't mean it will work great for most amateurs (or even other pros). Same with DJs bowed wrist, Rory's hip stall, etc.

 

With that being said, I am bowing out of the thread. If the OP wants to ruin his back and/or his golf swing, can't say we didn't try!

[DavePelz4]

Grant...I watched your video in the PVC with an open mind and based on my expertise have concluded that you need a much longer putter.

[grantc79]

> @DavePelz4 said:

> Grant...I watched your video in the PVC with an open mind and based on my expertise have concluded that you need a much longer putter.

 

Thats funny :)

[CallawayLefty]

Anybody remember the guy that did one of these a few years ago, then shortly thereafter started a thread called “How To Talk About Golf” that was just a disguised missive on how a 12 handicap should be allowed to play blades?

 

This is starting to sound eerily familiar.

[grantc79]

> @Krt22 said:

> > @matthewb said:

> > > @grantc79 said:

> > > I understand it's contrary to what's always been taught but at the end of the day quoting Sam Snead and all the old golfers isn't really applicable

> > >

> > > they were all around pre trackman and frankly before we truly understood how the human body works

> > >

> > > A golfers back pain level from the 1950s swinging a wooden club seems pretty ancient to me

> > >

> > > That's the equivalent of putting leeches on your broken arm ?

> >

> > We have nothing to learn from Sam Snead? This sure smells like a troll thread!

>

> Unfortunately I don't think it is, instead the OP is exhibiting all the classic downfalls of why a lot of golfer's don't ever reach their full potential. Fundamental misunderstanding of certain things and misunderstanding of causation/correlation. The fact that BK is his model is very much proof of that, he thinks/assumes BK is a great golfer due to his hip action. Well if it works for Brooks, it will work for me and I will be a great golfer, right? BKs hip action is one of those things that works for a world class athlete, that doesn't mean it will work great for most amateurs (or even other pros). Same with DJs bowed wrist, Rory's hip stall, etc.

>

> With that being said, I am bowing out of the thread. If the OP wants to ruin his back and/or his golf swing, can't say we didn't try!

 

Its raining here so I'm going to suck you back in....

 

If thats the case, should I not straighten my leg and lash at it like Bubba Watson because hes a world class athlete?

Should I try to take it inside because Wolff takes it way outside and hes a world class athlete so I couldn't hope to emulate it..

 

All those PGA tour guys have flat left wrists at impact, but they are world class athletes so we shouldn't strive for that. Just flip at it right?

 

I coached basketball for years and played basketball for even longer. Steph Curry has about as sound of a jump shot as you will find. I teach kids to emulate that jump shot because its PERFECT. I don't tell them don't do that, hes a world class shooter you cant hope to do that.

 

Maybe the reason why golfers don't reach their full potential is close mindedness and lack of effort?

 

Or maybe its because they seek guidance from the internet or random people on golf forums as opposed to the guys coaching major champions.....

[JeffreySpicoli]

> @CallawayLefty said:

> Anybody remember the guy that did one of these a few years ago, then shortly thereafter started a thread called “How To Talk About Golf” that was just a disguised missive on how a 12 handicap should be allowed to play blades?

>

> This is starting to sound eerily familiar.

 

You might be more correct than you know. Have you seen this thread?

 

https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1776212/holy-grail-found-game-improvement-zero-offset-great-company-great-feel#latest

[Quicksilver]

Grant -

 

Good luck in your endeavor. I would like to throw out some thoughts that have nothing to do with your swing:

 

- Buy the book Dave Pelz’s Short Game Bible and read a chapter every other night. It is old and you can get it on ebay for about $5. You don’t have to become a Pelz worshipper to appreciate his thoughts and strategy on the short game. His teaching about developing a very dependable distance control wedge shot from 125, 100, 80, 60, 40 yards is something that will take a couple or three strokes off your average score.

 

- Walk the course as much as possible. Play by yourself a few times and play some games on the course: one day take out all your odd numbered clubs, the next take out all your evens ; one day play two balls and play your best ball, the next time play only your worst ball ; play nine holes with only three clubs ; play 9 always to the 100 yard marker, then nine always to the 50 yard marker; take your driver out of your bag for a couple weeks (I did this for two years and dropped from 14 to 8 at the time); play from the white tees but only use your irons. All these games help in course management.

 

- Although I don’t pay for it, I really like Scott Fawcett’s thoughts and his Decade course management system. He had a long podcast interview on GolfSmarter and has a number of Youtube videos. Listen to those and see what you think. Map out your home course using his method and see if your game strategy makes sense on paper.

 

- I have had a lower handicap, but you are probably as good or better than me right now. Don’t look for quick fixes. At this point, if you can improve your putting by 2 strokes per round, your GIR by 2 and your short game by 2, that is not a 6 stroke gain but probably 8 or more because each improvement compounds by reducing opportunities for other mistakes during the round.

 

- Finally, have fun. Most of us wish we could be doing the same thing!

 

 

[grantc79]

> @matthewb said:

> > @CallawayLefty said:

> > Anybody remember the guy that did one of these a few years ago, then shortly thereafter started a thread called “How To Talk About Golf” that was just a disguised missive on how a 12 handicap should be allowed to play blades?

> >

> > This is starting to sound eerily familiar.

>

> You might be more correct than you know. Have you seen this thread?

>

> https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1776212/holy-grail-found-game-improvement-zero-offset-great-company-great-feel#latest

 

Is that the thread where lots of Golfwrx posters argued with me and for the record Tom Wishon on the fact that weakening lofts reduces offset?

 

**_"Yes, if you weaken the lofts, the offset will be decreased. This is all because as the face "tilts back more" from increasing the loft, the bottom of the face juts outward a little more in the process, thus reducing the offset. For a 2* increase in loft, you should see the offset reduced by 1.5mm. To a golfer with a LOT of experience looking at irons and with a discerning eye, this is noticeable. Typically though, a reduction in offset doesn't usually look odd unless the leading edge starts to look like it has moved out in front of the forward part of the hosel.

TOM WISHON"_**

 

https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/523749/effect-of-bending-irons-weak-loft-on-offset/p1

 

I think you are proving my point that many Golfwrx posters like to argue about things they haven't taken much time to research........

[Krt22]

> @grantc79 said:

> > @Krt22 said:

> > > @matthewb said:

> > > > @grantc79 said:

> > > > I understand it's contrary to what's always been taught but at the end of the day quoting Sam Snead and all the old golfers isn't really applicable

> > > >

> > > > they were all around pre trackman and frankly before we truly understood how the human body works

> > > >

> > > > A golfers back pain level from the 1950s swinging a wooden club seems pretty ancient to me

> > > >

> > > > That's the equivalent of putting leeches on your broken arm ?

> > >

> > > We have nothing to learn from Sam Snead? This sure smells like a troll thread!

> >

> > Unfortunately I don't think it is, instead the OP is exhibiting all the classic downfalls of why a lot of golfer's don't ever reach their full potential. Fundamental misunderstanding of certain things and misunderstanding of causation/correlation. The fact that BK is his model is very much proof of that, he thinks/assumes BK is a great golfer due to his hip action. Well if it works for Brooks, it will work for me and I will be a great golfer, right? BKs hip action is one of those things that works for a world class athlete, that doesn't mean it will work great for most amateurs (or even other pros). Same with DJs bowed wrist, Rory's hip stall, etc.

> >

> > With that being said, I am bowing out of the thread. If the OP wants to ruin his back and/or his golf swing, can't say we didn't try!

>

> Its raining here so I'm going to suck you back in....

>

> If thats the case, should I not straighten my leg and lash at it like Bubba Watson because hes a world class athlete?

> Should I try to take it inside because Wolff takes it way outside and hes a world class athlete so I couldn't hope to emulate it..

>

> All those PGA tour guys have flat left wrists at impact, but they are world class athletes so we shouldn't strive for that. Just flip at it right?

>

> I coached basketball for years and played basketball for even longer. Steph Curry has about as sound of a jump shot as you will find. I teach kids to emulate that jump shot because its PERFECT. I don't tell them don't do that, hes a world class shooter you cant hope to do that.

>

> Maybe the reason why golfers don't reach their full potential is close mindedness and lack of effort?

>

> Or maybe its because they seek guidance from the internet or random people on golf forums as opposed to the guys coaching major champions.....

 

Again, completely ignoring the content of my post and missing the point entirely, just like your (mis) interpretation of everything else you have posted thus far.

 

Ironically enough, the only close-minded person in this thread is you. You are stuck on a single concept and because you THINK it's be advocated by your "Top 100" instructors (or perhaps it's just your hubris), you are completely closing yourself off from any other train of thought.

[PowderedToastMan]

Finau is 6’4, his cousin is in the NBA, and Tony has fast twitch that you couldn’t even dream of having. You, on the other hand, are middle-aged and bald.

 

Stop comparing yourself to these guys. You should be trying to get your downswing like them, then you’ll actually play some good golf.

 

For the record, your teacher probably admires PowderedToastMan. Also, like others have said, including me, you clearly aren’t understanding what your teacher is teaching. There’s just no way he’s teaching you what you’re saying and doing.

 

Edit: the reason I don’t argue with you courteously, like Drew, is because you are clearly the type of guy who has no intention of having an open mind and learning from a conversation. You just want to teach and have the people listen. No thank you. Search this forum and you’ll see me having plenty of back and forth with people about the swing and actually asking questions (because I always want to learn).