My Paper Tiger journey / 1 year full time golfer job starts Monday 7-1-19

[Krt22]

> @grantc79 said:

> > @"b.helts" said:

> > I’ve never done what OP is trying to do. I wish him luck. And sure, a person can do it on their own. But real breakthroughs in golf require humility and honesty and trust in the path forward.

> >

> > I’m not seeing that here but like others, do wish the OP well.

>

> Once again not here for swing coaching here to chronicle the journey.

>

> I have a great swing coach. ?> @lsu_justin said:

> > Who's your coach? I've seen to Leitz, Robert Merrill, and Travis Coxe the past 7 years or so. I recently went to Paxton Clabaugh out at Carter and felt like his instruction really clicked with me.

>

> Rob Noel out in Money Hill. I know James Leitz really well and was considering him just because he is very local for me but I've pretty much always gone to Rob.

>

> They have a very similar teaching style though they have very different personalities.

 

> @grantc79 said:

> > @milesgiles said:

> > Not sure what you meant by 'uptick' on the backswing?

> > I think most reasonable golfers would have a similar opinion on what you need to work on, since you've made it clear you don't require that input, like I said, fine.. but just tell us again who you are modelling your swing on, the two or three things you are trying to change?

>

> If I had to pick one it would be Koepka but really only his backswing.

>

> Things I'm trying to change:

> 1: Keep knee bend throughout backswing dont straighten

> 2: Not allow my right hip to rotate backward at all in backswing at all

> 3: Get my shaft higher up at the top of the backswing. I'm good with the plane angle, I just want it up more through the shoulder as opposed to the tricep.

 

Just about all good players lose some flex in the right knee and rotate their right hip back (up back and towards the target). What improvement do you think you will see by making these changes?

[grantc79]

Koepka and Kisner have barely any backwards hip movement in their swings.

 

The point is you see more of a lateral load of the right foot and then a lateral load of the left foot in the transition.

It is not a rotational move it is a lateral load.

 

Throw a football, notice you load your right leg and throw. Throw a baseball, same thing.

 

 

Tony Finau is a perfect example of how you don't need a huge turn to generate speed.

[hoselpalooza]

> @grantc79 said:

>

>

>

> Koepka and Kisner have barely any backwards hip movement in their swings.

>

> The point is you see more of a lateral load of the right foot and then a lateral load of the left foot in the transition.

> It is not a rotational move it is a lateral load.

>

> Throw a football, notice you load your right leg and throw. Throw a baseball, same thing.

>

>

>

> Tony Finau is a perfect example of how you don't need a huge turn to generate speed.

 

all of those guys get their lead knee closer to the ball at the top of the backswing. why prevent this from happening?

[ebrasmus21]

This has been quite interesting so far. Not often you hear someone actively seeking to restrict hip turn. Didn’t see that coming.

[jut111]

I feel like this whole thread is a social experiment to test the self control of the I/A regulars.

[grantc79]

The guys I mentioned they don't do it exactly where their knees and hips don't move but they are definitely trending that way where it's less hip rotation and less straightening of the legs

 

If we can all agree that creating power comes from the legs then please name me a situation in which to generate power you would straighten your legs

 

if you wanted to throw the football or baseball farther would you straighten your back leg in order to take the football back farther behind your head

[grantc79]

Let me be clear to throw a baseball to throw a football to do any of these things is a bent back leg that you are loading into and pushing off of

 

You are essentially creating a spring

 

Explain to me how releasing tension from that spring will generate more power

 

Tony finau is a perfect example of how you need to be more efficient not longer if you take someone who straightens their back leg and rotates their hip in order to get a longer swing they will not generate more power they will simply have a longer swing

[airjammer]

The problem with baseball or football or pretty much any other throwing sport is that the hips can’t get in the way like they can in golf. So father your right hip gets away from the ball the greater chance you can get your trail elbow in front of the trail hip

[jut111]

Go throw a football or a baseball down range from golf posture (inclined angle to the ground) and get back to us.

 

 

[hoselpalooza]

@grantc79, your center of gravity is moving in the opposite direction of all those guys you shared. in your drill swing you come up and off of the ball. e.g. look at your head height. do you know what's causing this?

[Krt22]

> @grantc79 said:

>

>

>

> Koepka and Kisner have barely any backwards hip movement in their swings.

>

> The point is you see more of a lateral load of the right foot and then a lateral load of the left foot in the transition.

> It is not a rotational move it is a lateral load.

>

> Throw a football, notice you load your right leg and throw. Throw a baseball, same thing.

>

>

>

> Tony Finau is a perfect example of how you don't need a huge turn to generate speed.

 

You did not answer my question, what improvement do you think you will see by making these changes? And are you built like BK or TF?

 

Conversely DJ gets his right leg almost straight, I assure you he gets tons of load. Same with Justin Rose and many others.

[drewtaylor21]

> @grantc79 said:

> The guys I mentioned they don't do it exactly where their knees and hips don't move but they are definitely trending that way where it's less hip rotation and less straightening of the legs

>

> **If we can all agree that creating power comes from the legs then please name me a situation in which to generate power you would straighten your legs**

>

> if you wanted to throw the football or baseball farther would you straighten your back leg in order to take the football back farther behind your head

 

Well, jumping, running, cutting/driving laterally to name a few....really every fundamental lower body movement involves flexing and extending the major joints of the lower extremity!

OP, I love the opportunity you have ahead of you, but if your teacher is telling you to actively resist lower body rotation, I'd run far far away while your back is still pain-free!

[Krt22]

> @drewtaylor21 said:

> > @grantc79 said:

> > The guys I mentioned they don't do it exactly where their knees and hips don't move but they are definitely trending that way where it's less hip rotation and less straightening of the legs

> >

> > **If we can all agree that creating power comes from the legs then please name me a situation in which to generate power you would straighten your legs**

> >

> > if you wanted to throw the football or baseball farther would you straighten your back leg in order to take the football back farther behind your head

>

> Well, jumping, running, cutting/driving laterally to name a few....really every fundamental lower body movement involves flexing and extending the major joints of the lower extremity!

> OP, I love the opportunity you have ahead of you, but if your teacher is telling you to actively resist lower body rotation, I'd run far far away while your back is still pain-free!

 

Exactly. Look at Justin Thomas, pound for pound just about the longest hitter on tour, lots of extension of the legs. All of the modern force plate data tells us this as well.

[b.helts]

Entertainment at its finest right here.

 

And I think going to get better.

[farmer]

What Drew said. Sam Snead played forever with a very full natural hip turn, and never had any back problems. That "X Factor" swing has long since been discredited.

[grantc79]

> @drewtaylor21 said:

> > @grantc79 said:

> > The guys I mentioned they don't do it exactly where their knees and hips don't move but they are definitely trending that way where it's less hip rotation and less straightening of the legs

> >

> > **If we can all agree that creating power comes from the legs then please name me a situation in which to generate power you would straighten your legs**

> >

> > if you wanted to throw the football or baseball farther would you straighten your back leg in order to take the football back farther behind your head

>

> Well, jumping, running, cutting/driving laterally to name a few....really every fundamental lower body movement involves flexing and extending the major joints of the lower extremity!

> OP, I love the opportunity you have ahead of you, but if your teacher is telling you to actively resist lower body rotation, I'd run far far away while your back is still pain-free!

 

Actually both the top 100 rated teachers near me are advocates of it ?

[grantc79]

I understand it's contrary to what's always been taught but at the end of the day quoting Sam Snead and all the old golfers isn't really applicable

 

they were all around pre trackman and frankly before we truly understood how the human body works

 

A golfers back pain level from the 1950s swinging a wooden club seems pretty ancient to me

 

That's the equivalent of putting leeches on your broken arm ?

[ebrasmus21]

> @"b.helts" said:

> Entertainment at its finest right here.

>

> And I think going to get better.

 

I think OP is laying it on pretty thick at the moment. When topics get too “out there” these types of threads seem to lose a lot of momentum.

[grantc79]

> @ebrasmus21 said:

> > @"b.helts" said:

> > Entertainment at its finest right here.

> >

> > And I think going to get better.

>

> I think OP is laying it on pretty thick at the moment. When topics get too “out there” these types of threads seem to lose a lot of momentum.

 

Oh just wait later on this evening I'm going to share a video from tiger woods and Butch in 2000 when he was playing his absolute best and he said they were working on restricting his hip turn ?

[Krt22]

> @grantc79 said:

> I understand it's contrary to what's always been taught but at the end of the day quoting Sam Snead and all the old golfers isn't really applicable

>

> they were all around pre trackman and frankly before we truly understood how the human body works

>

> A golfers back pain level from the 1950s swinging a wooden club seems pretty ancient to me

>

> That's the equivalent of putting leeches on your broken arm ?

 

False equivalency really, and there is lots of old school stuff that still applies today, the modern tech just helps further explain it. Lots of older players understood the modern ball flight laws without the numbers. As for how the body works, the modern tech/data says otherwise. One of the few things all big hitters have in common is large vertical ground reaction forces. How can you achieve these forces if your legs stay bent the entire time?

[Krt22]

> @grantc79 said:

> > @ebrasmus21 said:

> > > @"b.helts" said:

> > > Entertainment at its finest right here.

> > >

> > > And I think going to get better.

> >

> > I think OP is laying it on pretty thick at the moment. When topics get too “out there” these types of threads seem to lose a lot of momentum.

>

> Oh just wait later on this evening I'm going to share a video from tiger woods and Butch in 2000 when he was playing his absolute best and he said they were working on restricting his hip turn ?

 

And he since then had 4 back surgeries and nearly had to retire. Look at his post fusion swing that won him the masters at age 43, everything but a restricted turn.

[airjammer]

I take back everything I said about working on your swing...play play play

[grantc79]

 

Bent knees.

 

 

Bent knees.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbnlzjoeZPU

 

Tiger Woods discussing how junior golfers, himself included, would whip their hips through which would lead to erratic shots. Pay attention to what he literally says. Drop the hands in front and feel like hips aren't rotating.

 

He LITERALLY SAYS over rotation of the hips leads to more speed but erratic shots and he in his prime having the best season in the history of golf says "we are working on rotating LESS"

 

Perhaps the best players in the world over rotate and do it wrong because they have always done it wrong....

[milesgiles]

> @airjammer said:

> I take back everything I said about working on your swing...play play play

 

Hahaha..

 

I’m still going to resist commenting on your swing and your goals, because I said I wouldn’t, but Lord this is gonna be tough..

I find it fascinating that you are taking two extremely quirky swings as a model, where most of us are trying to copy an Oosthuizen or Donald. I do think you are getting very distracted with trackman data, most of us can make it say anything we want but not necessarily with the swing we would take to the golf course..your dtl swing looks like nothing more or less than ‘I’m going to smash this off the planet’..

I’m in your corner, but I’m not betting my house on this approach paying off in GIRs..

 

[Krt22]

> @grantc79 said:

>

>

> Bent knees.

>

>

>

> Bent knees.

>

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbnlzjoeZPU

>

> Tiger Woods discussing how junior golfers, himself included, would whip their hips through which would lead to erratic shots. Pay attention to what he literally says. Drop the hands in front and feel like hips aren't rotating.

>

> He LITERALLY SAYS over rotation of the hips leads to more speed but erratic shots and he in his prime having the best season in the history of golf says "we are working on rotating LESS"

>

> Perhaps the best players in the world over rotate and do it wrong because they have always done it wrong....

 

Good luck!

[ryan983]

> @grantc79 said:

>

>

> Bent knees.

>

>

>

> Bent knees.

>

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbnlzjoeZPU

>

> Tiger Woods discussing how junior golfers, himself included, would whip their hips through which would lead to erratic shots. Pay attention to what he literally says. Drop the hands in front and feel like hips aren't rotating.

>

> He LITERALLY SAYS over rotation of the hips leads to more speed but erratic shots and he in his prime having the best season in the history of golf says "we are working on rotating LESS"

>

> Perhaps the best players in the world over rotate and do it wrong because they have always done it wrong....

 

Overrating is bad. Restricting hip turn is just the other end of the spectrum bad.

[hoselpalooza]

> @grantc79 said:

>

>

> Bent knees.

>

>

>

> Bent knees.

>

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbnlzjoeZPU

>

> Tiger Woods discussing how junior golfers, himself included, would whip their hips through which would lead to erratic shots. Pay attention to what he literally says. Drop the hands in front and feel like hips aren't rotating.

>

> He LITERALLY SAYS over rotation of the hips leads to more speed but erratic shots and he in his prime having the best season in the history of golf says "we are working on rotating LESS"

>

> Perhaps the best players in the world over rotate and do it wrong because they have always done it wrong....

 

i think you're taking the segment with tiger and butch out of context.

 

unless i've misunderstood, tiger's problem was getting too much separation. e.g. he fired his lower body too fast/too early to make up for a lack of strength as a junior golfer. this made his swing dependent upon good timing which could prove unreliable in high-pressure situations. so to reduce his dependence on timing he increased his strength and improved his swing sequence to get his upper and lower body more in sync at the beginning of the downswing.

[esm85]

 

 

 

[ebrasmus21]

> @esm85 said:

>

>

>

>

 

Lol

[Krt22]

> @esm85 said:

>

>

>

>

 

That guy won't generate any speed with such a straight right leg