Rules for Traditional Clubs

[wagsgt]

I got invited to play a nice private club. It was mentioned the club is “Traditional” Don’t change shoes in parking lot and cell phone use is prohibited.

I didn’t think of it at time but do I have to change shoes in locker room? Or can slip on inside car?

[justasgood]

Locker room preferably.

[KMeloney]

If you change your shoes in the car, no one will know whether you did that or left your house wearing them. Otherwise, I'd assume that they employ a locker room attendant who's existence is based on providing good service to folks who use the locker room. So, I'd think that they want you to use the locker room, to allow them to provide a memorable service to you, and to keep you from sitting on your bumper and banging your shoes off in the parking lot after the round.

[North Butte]

Probably means the kind of place where you're supposed to arrive in street clothes and shoes, change into golf Mufti in the locker room before the round, then back into street wear afterward. Some "traditional" clubs don't even want you wearing your golf shirt and/or shorts when eating lunch or drinking in the main bar (although they may have a golfer's bar where golf wear is allowed).

 

You're basically supposed to be dressed up a little whenever you're not actually on the golf course. But it varies exactly how far a given club takes it. And it may vary depending on time of day or day of week.

 

Kind of remarkable in 2019, isn't it?

[rogolf]

> @"North Butte" said:

> Probably means the kind of place where you're supposed to arrive in street clothes and shoes, change into golf Mufti in the locker room before the round, then back into street wear afterward. Some "traditional" clubs don't even want you wearing your golf shirt and/or shorts when eating lunch or drinking in the main bar (although they may have a golfer's bar where golf wear is allowed).

>

> You're basically supposed to be dressed up a little whenever you're not actually on the golf course. But it varies exactly how far a given club takes it. And it may vary depending on time of day or day of week.

>

>** Kind of remarkable in 2019, isn't it? **

Not at all, and I appreciate it. Clubs have the opportunity to establish their own rules regarding dress codes, and this should not be taken away from them. It's simple - adhere or you will be asked to leave. No big deal imo.

 

[KMeloney]

> @"North Butte" said:

> Probably means the kind of place where you're supposed to arrive in street clothes and shoes, change into golf Mufti in the locker room before the round, then back into street wear afterward. Some "traditional" clubs don't even want you wearing your golf shirt and/or shorts when eating lunch or drinking in the main bar (although they may have a golfer's bar where golf wear is allowed).

>

> You're basically supposed to be dressed up a little whenever you're not actually on the golf course. But it varies exactly how far a given club takes it. And it may vary depending on time of day or day of week.

>

> Kind of remarkable in 2019, isn't it?

 

I'd be surprised if the club the OP is playing expects all of that -- 'else he'd have been notified of that by the member (I'd hope).

[North Butte]

> @KMeloney said:

> > @"North Butte" said:

> > Probably means the kind of place where you're supposed to arrive in street clothes and shoes, change into golf Mufti in the locker room before the round, then back into street wear afterward. Some "traditional" clubs don't even want you wearing your golf shirt and/or shorts when eating lunch or drinking in the main bar (although they may have a golfer's bar where golf wear is allowed).

> >

> > You're basically supposed to be dressed up a little whenever you're not actually on the golf course. But it varies exactly how far a given club takes it. And it may vary depending on time of day or day of week.

> >

> > Kind of remarkable in 2019, isn't it?

>

> I'd be surprised if the club the OP is playing expects all of that -- 'else he'd have been notified of that by the member (I'd hope).

 

I'd think so (hope so) too. But my description was based on one round at one club I visited back in 2010 or so.

 

I knew it wasn't going to be the sort of place where you change shoes in the parking lot but had no idea going in just how fancy-dress the place was. I'd played enough at posh clubs in England to always be prepared so I was fine as it turned out but even so I was probably the worst-dressed (or at least least expensively attired!) person on the property that day.

 

Erring on the side of dressing-up is seldom going to hurt and in that case it helped. I don't mean to imply that I was unhappy or ungrateful for the invitation, by the way. It was one of the most enjoyable golfing days I can remember. But if I'd shown up exactly as I would at my own club it might have been awkward.

 

I should have had a clue because the only member of that club I'd ever met (other than my host that day) was the kind of guy who used to show up for his lessons with my teaching pro wearing pants, shirt and sweater that each probably cost more than I'd ever paid for a piece of clothing in my life and shoes (even on a muddy driving range in the middle of winter) that cost more than my bag of golf clubs.

 

But anyway, enough of my ancient history playing golf with rich guys. I do think OP is very likely to find a very reasonable environment and he'll be find just carrying his shoes into the locker room to change and stashing his phone in the locker for the day.

[MountainKing]

> @"North Butte" said:

> Probably means the kind of place where you're supposed to arrive in street clothes and shoes, change into golf Mufti in the locker room before the round, then back into street wear afterward. Some "traditional" clubs don't even want you wearing your golf shirt and/or shorts when eating lunch or drinking in the main bar (although they may have a golfer's bar where golf wear is allowed).

>

> You're basically supposed to be dressed up a little whenever you're not actually on the golf course. But it varies exactly how far a given club takes it. And it may vary depending on time of day or day of week.

>

> Kind of remarkable in 2019, isn't it?

 

I'm always curious about the plan for these type of clubs for future survival. A lot of them seem to be stuck on the fact that the old money will never die off. I'm of the age where my generation is probably the first group to not really care for this traditional dressing up stuff, but deal with it now and then. When I do go play these clubs, the few times I have, they're always empty and the few people you see are generally the 55+ crowd. They do nothing to attract youth.

[North Butte]

> @MountainKing said:>

> I'm always curious about the plan for these type of clubs for future survival. A lot of them seem to be stuck on the fact that the old money will never die off. I'm of the age where my generation is probably the first group to not really care for this traditional dressing up stuff, but deal with it now and then. When I do go play these clubs, the few times I have, they're always empty and the few people you see are generally the 55+ crowd. They do nothing to attract youth.

 

On the occasion of my most recent visit to that kind of club, my host was in his late 40's and I'd say looking around the dining room at lunch the average person there that day was maybe my age (in my 50's). My own club which is as unpretentious and low-key as you're likely to find at a truly private club (i.e. member owned) skews at least a decade later in age.

 

You're not going to see a lot of 20-somethings and 30-somethings at any place where the entry cost is 50 or 100 grand and the average yearly cost averages out to a couple hundred bucks for every time a member plays golf. Older people have more money, period.

 

Who knows what the future holds but a club in that rarefied echelon is far more likely to still be there in 2039 than a typical middle class country club built around a housing development.

[Argonne69]

> @"North Butte" said:

> > @MountainKing said:>

> > I'm always curious about the plan for these type of clubs for future survival. A lot of them seem to be stuck on the fact that the old money will never die off. I'm of the age where my generation is probably the first group to not really care for this traditional dressing up stuff, but deal with it now and then. When I do go play these clubs, the few times I have, they're always empty and the few people you see are generally the 55+ crowd. They do nothing to attract youth.

>

> On the occasion of my most recent visit to that kind of club, my host was in his late 40's and I'd say looking around the dining room at lunch the average person there that day was maybe my age (in my 50's). My own club which is as unpretentious and low-key as you're likely to find at a truly private club (i.e. member owned) skews at least a decade later in age.

>

> You're not going to see a lot of 20-somethings and 30-somethings at any place where the entry cost is 50 or 100 grand and the average yearly cost averages out to a couple hundred bucks for every time a member plays golf. Older people have more money, period.

>

> Who knows what the future holds but a club in that rarefied echelon is far more likely to still be there in 2039 than a typical middle class country club built around a housing development.

 

I dunno. At one point all those old geezers were in their 20's and 30's. I'm not sure how many of those clubs will survive, but there will always be a supply of well off folks to fill the coffers.

 

[BrianMcG]

This reminds me of the story of the club that didn’t allow black socks. They wanted to make the golfer buy a pair of white socks. Like WTF?!

 

The club was crucified on social media and every attempt they made to explain it made it worse. Lol.

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/golfer-not-allowed-to-play-because-of-his-socks-seriously-this-really-happened

[cmagnusson]

> @MountainKing said:

> > @"North Butte" said:

> > Probably means the kind of place where you're supposed to arrive in street clothes and shoes, change into golf Mufti in the locker room before the round, then back into street wear afterward. Some "traditional" clubs don't even want you wearing your golf shirt and/or shorts when eating lunch or drinking in the main bar (although they may have a golfer's bar where golf wear is allowed).

> >

> > You're basically supposed to be dressed up a little whenever you're not actually on the golf course. But it varies exactly how far a given club takes it. And it may vary depending on time of day or day of week.

> >

> > Kind of remarkable in 2019, isn't it?

>

> I'm always curious about the plan for these type of clubs for future survival. A lot of them seem to be stuck on the fact that the old money will never die off. I'm of the age where my generation is probably the first group to not really care for this traditional dressing up stuff, but deal with it now and then. When I do go play these clubs, the few times I have, they're always empty and the few people you see are generally the 55+ crowd. They do nothing to attract youth.

 

I mean, what do 95% of golf courses do to attract youth?

 

Completely full course on a Sunday morning at my home club for my weekly game, and I'm usually one of maybe 3 or 4 people under the age of 30. 60% of the membership is likely gonna be dead in the next 10-15 years. They have a junior membership rate but no program associated with it to speak of, and no teaching pro at the club.

 

55+ year olds are mostly guaranteed repeat money for a club unless you do something super dumb, the fact that people keep trying to cater to them rather than sinking almost all their marketing/recruitment efforts into 30-year old young professionals is simply moronic.

 

 

Tradition is killing golf.

[skulled]

Anytime I play at a new course I will go their website. Usually, but not always, there is something there for guests regarding dress code etc. I would try that.

[Bonneville85308]

When in doubt about anything regarding do's and don'ts at a club, ask your host in advance. Particularly if the information isn't otherwise available on the club's guest information section (if any) of their website. He/she would probably rather you pepper them with questions ahead of time instead of saying nothing and embarrassing them once at the club by breaking some obscure rule.

When in Rome, do as the Romans do, even if the rules seem stupid or stuffy, especially if you want to be invited back sometime.

There was a club where I used to live that did not allow shorts to be worn on the course, even when it was 90 degrees and humid in the summer, until sometime probably in the mid 2000s. It was a ridiculous rule in my opinion, much like several other rules they had, but I respected my host and wore pants without protest the time I was invited before the ban was lifted.

 

[golfortennis]

> @cmagnusson said:

> > @MountainKing said:

> > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > Probably means the kind of place where you're supposed to arrive in street clothes and shoes, change into golf Mufti in the locker room before the round, then back into street wear afterward. Some "traditional" clubs don't even want you wearing your golf shirt and/or shorts when eating lunch or drinking in the main bar (although they may have a golfer's bar where golf wear is allowed).

> > >

> > > You're basically supposed to be dressed up a little whenever you're not actually on the golf course. But it varies exactly how far a given club takes it. And it may vary depending on time of day or day of week.

> > >

> > > Kind of remarkable in 2019, isn't it?

> >

> > I'm always curious about the plan for these type of clubs for future survival. A lot of them seem to be stuck on the fact that the old money will never die off. I'm of the age where my generation is probably the first group to not really care for this traditional dressing up stuff, but deal with it now and then. When I do go play these clubs, the few times I have, they're always empty and the few people you see are generally the 55+ crowd. They do nothing to attract youth.

>

> I mean, what do 95% of golf courses do to attract youth?

>

> Completely full course on a Sunday morning at my home club for my weekly game, and I'm usually one of maybe 3 or 4 people under the age of 30. 60% of the membership is likely gonna be dead in the next 10-15 years. They have a junior membership rate but no program associated with it to speak of, and no teaching pro at the club.

>

> 55+ year olds are mostly guaranteed repeat money for a club unless you do something super dumb, the fact that people keep trying to cater to them rather than sinking almost all their marketing/recruitment efforts into 30-year old young professionals is simply moronic.

>

>

> Tradition is killing golf.

 

You know, I hear all this "you'll never get them if..." Outside of slow play, I think a lot of it is hooey. If it isn't tucking your shirt in, it will be something else, but people who say they would never play golf if those are the rules, will find a way to not play golf. It's just an easier excuse than admitting it's hard and they don't want to have to put in as much effort.

 

Not to mention, people change. 20 years ago if you'd have asked me if I would have become the type to expect shirts tucked in, i'd have said you were crazy. Lo and behold....

 

Golf is a niche sport, and will always remain so. It will also remain one of the few sports you can play until you're in the ground.

[MountainKing]

> @cmagnusson said:

> > @MountainKing said:

> > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > Probably means the kind of place where you're supposed to arrive in street clothes and shoes, change into golf Mufti in the locker room before the round, then back into street wear afterward. Some "traditional" clubs don't even want you wearing your golf shirt and/or shorts when eating lunch or drinking in the main bar (although they may have a golfer's bar where golf wear is allowed).

> > >

> > > You're basically supposed to be dressed up a little whenever you're not actually on the golf course. But it varies exactly how far a given club takes it. And it may vary depending on time of day or day of week.

> > >

> > > Kind of remarkable in 2019, isn't it?

> >

> > I'm always curious about the plan for these type of clubs for future survival. A lot of them seem to be stuck on the fact that the old money will never die off. I'm of the age where my generation is probably the first group to not really care for this traditional dressing up stuff, but deal with it now and then. When I do go play these clubs, the few times I have, they're always empty and the few people you see are generally the 55+ crowd. They do nothing to attract youth.

>

> I mean, what do 95% of golf courses do to attract youth?

>

> Completely full course on a Sunday morning at my home club for my weekly game, and I'm usually one of maybe 3 or 4 people under the age of 30. 60% of the membership is likely gonna be dead in the next 10-15 years. They have a junior membership rate but no program associated with it to speak of, and no teaching pro at the club.

>

> 55+ year olds are mostly guaranteed repeat money for a club unless you do something super dumb, the fact that people keep trying to cater to them rather than sinking almost all their marketing/recruitment efforts into 30-year old young professionals is simply moronic.

>

>

> Tradition is killing golf.

 

Good point.

 

And I'll always give in if it's a course I really want to play, I'd like to say they're the type of club I would never join but I've never considered the CC life to be honest. I like playing different courses on the regular and I'm the kind of guy you'll find on the range in athletic shorts and a tshirt.

[cmagnusson]

> @Bluefan75 said:

> > @cmagnusson said:

> > > @MountainKing said:

> > > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > Probably means the kind of place where you're supposed to arrive in street clothes and shoes, change into golf Mufti in the locker room before the round, then back into street wear afterward. Some "traditional" clubs don't even want you wearing your golf shirt and/or shorts when eating lunch or drinking in the main bar (although they may have a golfer's bar where golf wear is allowed).

> > > >

> > > > You're basically supposed to be dressed up a little whenever you're not actually on the golf course. But it varies exactly how far a given club takes it. And it may vary depending on time of day or day of week.

> > > >

> > > > Kind of remarkable in 2019, isn't it?

> > >

> > > I'm always curious about the plan for these type of clubs for future survival. A lot of them seem to be stuck on the fact that the old money will never die off. I'm of the age where my generation is probably the first group to not really care for this traditional dressing up stuff, but deal with it now and then. When I do go play these clubs, the few times I have, they're always empty and the few people you see are generally the 55+ crowd. They do nothing to attract youth.

> >

> > I mean, what do 95% of golf courses do to attract youth?

> >

> > Completely full course on a Sunday morning at my home club for my weekly game, and I'm usually one of maybe 3 or 4 people under the age of 30. 60% of the membership is likely gonna be dead in the next 10-15 years. They have a junior membership rate but no program associated with it to speak of, and no teaching pro at the club.

> >

> > 55+ year olds are mostly guaranteed repeat money for a club unless you do something super dumb, the fact that people keep trying to cater to them rather than sinking almost all their marketing/recruitment efforts into 30-year old young professionals is simply moronic.

> >

> >

> > Tradition is killing golf.

>

> You know, I hear all this "you'll never get them if..." Outside of slow play, I think a lot of it is hooey. If it isn't tucking your shirt in, it will be something else, but people who say they would never play golf if those are the rules, will find a way to not play golf. It's just an easier excuse than admitting it's hard and they don't want to have to put in as much effort.

>

> Not to mention, people change. 20 years ago if you'd have asked me if I would have become the type to expect shirts tucked in, i'd have said you were crazy. Lo and behold....

>

> Golf is a niche sport, and will always remain so. It will also remain one of the few sports you can play until you're in the ground.

 

Yeah what do I know, not like I had a dozen friends who quit playing golf in university as soon as they aged out of their junior programs and were expected to pay and act like 70 year olds by their CCs...... oh, wait, nevermind.

 

 

Millennials love golf, they just hate the establishment and they hate old boys clubs, which is what controls almost all golf courses. They are perfectly fine following rules, as long as the rules make sense and serve a purpose. They also hate being expected to be able to afford the same things that Boomers can after those same people ruined the economy and allowed the cost of living to skyrocket disproportionately to entry-level pay. Golf is actually a great microcosm of everything that is wrong with Western societies and the huge generational gap we see.

 

Saying golf is a "niche sport" is a stupid and lazy excuse for not bothering to deal with the massive problems golf has with accessibility across non-traditional (read: non middle/upper class 40+ y.o. white) demographics.

[North Butte]

So what specifically do the "old boys clubs" who control "all the golf courses" in your area force your friends to do?

 

And are you talking private clubs or public courses. Not sure who "controls" our local muni but it's probably the government employee sitting in the office, one supposes. I've not observed him to object to very much other than public intoxication, brawls between golfers or damage to the course.

 

If you're talking about private clubs, there does seem to be a certain correlation between those willing to shell out a few thousand in dues per year and people who prefer not to have an "anything goes" party atmosphere on the course. But maybe you're talking about truly horrific things like requiring shirt collars or not allowing outside coolers.

 

As for being expect to "pay like a 70 year old" I guess Shakespeare put it best. Hell hath no fury like a former junior asked to start paying grown-up dues.

 

It sounds like "golf" didn't lose your friends. Just one specific, expensive private club lost them. Expensive, traditional country clubs are just a tiny part of "golf".

[Pepperturbo]

The Locker room is for changing shoes and clothes if needed. Make sure to ask your host member about tipping rules. If you're heading the grill room after 18, hit the men's room to wash up and remove your hat when you enter the grill room.

 

Golf is an imperfect niche sport for people with disposable income. By design and cost and for other reasons, golf can't be for "everyone." Just look at golf in communist China after leadership shut-down 111 courses for NOT adhering to government demands as well as the wealthy quietly making clubs private rejecting the proletariat collective ideals. Idealistic expectations are great till you hit the toilet and realize a human is involved and it's not coming out as planned. Last, don't let Golfwrx's negative nancy girls, influence a bias.

[golfortennis]

> @cmagnusson said:

> > @Bluefan75 said:

> > > @cmagnusson said:

> > > > @MountainKing said:

> > > > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > > Probably means the kind of place where you're supposed to arrive in street clothes and shoes, change into golf Mufti in the locker room before the round, then back into street wear afterward. Some "traditional" clubs don't even want you wearing your golf shirt and/or shorts when eating lunch or drinking in the main bar (although they may have a golfer's bar where golf wear is allowed).

> > > > >

> > > > > You're basically supposed to be dressed up a little whenever you're not actually on the golf course. But it varies exactly how far a given club takes it. And it may vary depending on time of day or day of week.

> > > > >

> > > > > Kind of remarkable in 2019, isn't it?

> > > >

> > > > I'm always curious about the plan for these type of clubs for future survival. A lot of them seem to be stuck on the fact that the old money will never die off. I'm of the age where my generation is probably the first group to not really care for this traditional dressing up stuff, but deal with it now and then. When I do go play these clubs, the few times I have, they're always empty and the few people you see are generally the 55+ crowd. They do nothing to attract youth.

> > >

> > > I mean, what do 95% of golf courses do to attract youth?

> > >

> > > Completely full course on a Sunday morning at my home club for my weekly game, and I'm usually one of maybe 3 or 4 people under the age of 30. 60% of the membership is likely gonna be dead in the next 10-15 years. They have a junior membership rate but no program associated with it to speak of, and no teaching pro at the club.

> > >

> > > 55+ year olds are mostly guaranteed repeat money for a club unless you do something super dumb, the fact that people keep trying to cater to them rather than sinking almost all their marketing/recruitment efforts into 30-year old young professionals is simply moronic.

> > >

> > >

> > > Tradition is killing golf.

> >

> > You know, I hear all this "you'll never get them if..." Outside of slow play, I think a lot of it is hooey. If it isn't tucking your shirt in, it will be something else, but people who say they would never play golf if those are the rules, will find a way to not play golf. It's just an easier excuse than admitting it's hard and they don't want to have to put in as much effort.

> >

> > Not to mention, people change. 20 years ago if you'd have asked me if I would have become the type to expect shirts tucked in, i'd have said you were crazy. Lo and behold....

> >

> > Golf is a niche sport, and will always remain so. It will also remain one of the few sports you can play until you're in the ground.

>

> Yeah what do I know, not like I had a dozen friends who quit playing golf in university as soon as they aged out of their junior programs and were expected to pay and act like 70 year olds by their CCs...... oh, wait, nevermind.

>

>

> Millennials love golf, they just hate the establishment and they hate old boys clubs, which is what controls almost all golf courses. They are perfectly fine following rules, as long as the rules make sense and serve a purpose. They also hate being expected to be able to afford the same things that Boomers can after those same people ruined the economy and allowed the cost of living to skyrocket disproportionately to entry-level pay. Golf is actually a great microcosm of everything that is wrong with Western societies and the huge generational gap we see.

>

> Saying golf is a "niche sport" is a stupid and lazy excuse for not bothering to deal with the massive problems golf has with accessibility across non-traditional (read: non middle/upper class 40+ y.o. white) demographics.

 

Aged out of their junior programs. Ok, I was wrong. It isn't about not wanting to admit it's hard. They don't want to pay the freight.

 

I'm always willing to have a conversation with a full shareholder at my club about these kind of things. Amazingly, though, with one exception, whose daddy paid for his share, the shareholders have certain ideas and are fairly expectant people follow them. Unlike elections, where you can vote even if you don't pay taxes, you have to actually pay for your seat at the table.

 

As North Butte said, and it's rare I agree with him, maybe a private club isn't for you and your friends. But this is starting to sounds more like "it's too expensive to go to a game", when in fact it's just really expensive for the seats 3 rows behind home plate.

[KMeloney]

> @cmagnusson said:

> 55+ year olds are mostly guaranteed repeat money for a club unless you do something super dumb, the fact that people keep trying to cater to them rather than sinking almost all their marketing/recruitment efforts into 30-year old young professionals is simply moronic.

>

>

> Tradition is killing golf.

 

Who did you cater to when you were on your club's Board?

[cmagnusson]

> @Bluefan75 said:

> > @cmagnusson said:

> > > @Bluefan75 said:

> > > > @cmagnusson said:

> > > > > @MountainKing said:

> > > > > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > > > Probably means the kind of place where you're supposed to arrive in street clothes and shoes, change into golf Mufti in the locker room before the round, then back into street wear afterward. Some "traditional" clubs don't even want you wearing your golf shirt and/or shorts when eating lunch or drinking in the main bar (although they may have a golfer's bar where golf wear is allowed).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You're basically supposed to be dressed up a little whenever you're not actually on the golf course. But it varies exactly how far a given club takes it. And it may vary depending on time of day or day of week.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Kind of remarkable in 2019, isn't it?

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm always curious about the plan for these type of clubs for future survival. A lot of them seem to be stuck on the fact that the old money will never die off. I'm of the age where my generation is probably the first group to not really care for this traditional dressing up stuff, but deal with it now and then. When I do go play these clubs, the few times I have, they're always empty and the few people you see are generally the 55+ crowd. They do nothing to attract youth.

> > > >

> > > > I mean, what do 95% of golf courses do to attract youth?

> > > >

> > > > Completely full course on a Sunday morning at my home club for my weekly game, and I'm usually one of maybe 3 or 4 people under the age of 30. 60% of the membership is likely gonna be dead in the next 10-15 years. They have a junior membership rate but no program associated with it to speak of, and no teaching pro at the club.

> > > >

> > > > 55+ year olds are mostly guaranteed repeat money for a club unless you do something super dumb, the fact that people keep trying to cater to them rather than sinking almost all their marketing/recruitment efforts into 30-year old young professionals is simply moronic.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Tradition is killing golf.

> > >

> > > You know, I hear all this "you'll never get them if..." Outside of slow play, I think a lot of it is hooey. If it isn't tucking your shirt in, it will be something else, but people who say they would never play golf if those are the rules, will find a way to not play golf. It's just an easier excuse than admitting it's hard and they don't want to have to put in as much effort.

> > >

> > > Not to mention, people change. 20 years ago if you'd have asked me if I would have become the type to expect shirts tucked in, i'd have said you were crazy. Lo and behold....

> > >

> > > Golf is a niche sport, and will always remain so. It will also remain one of the few sports you can play until you're in the ground.

> >

> > Yeah what do I know, not like I had a dozen friends who quit playing golf in university as soon as they aged out of their junior programs and were expected to pay and act like 70 year olds by their CCs...... oh, wait, nevermind.

> >

> >

> > Millennials love golf, they just hate the establishment and they hate old boys clubs, which is what controls almost all golf courses. They are perfectly fine following rules, as long as the rules make sense and serve a purpose. They also hate being expected to be able to afford the same things that Boomers can after those same people ruined the economy and allowed the cost of living to skyrocket disproportionately to entry-level pay. Golf is actually a great microcosm of everything that is wrong with Western societies and the huge generational gap we see.

> >

> > Saying golf is a "niche sport" is a stupid and lazy excuse for not bothering to deal with the massive problems golf has with accessibility across non-traditional (read: non middle/upper class 40+ y.o. white) demographics.

>

> Aged out of their junior programs. Ok, I was wrong. It isn't about not wanting to admit it's hard. They don't want to pay the freight.

>

> I'm always willing to have a conversation with a full shareholder at my club about these kind of things. Amazingly, though, with one exception, whose daddy paid for his share, the shareholders have certain ideas and are fairly expectant people follow them. Unlike elections, where you can vote even if you don't pay taxes, you have to actually pay for your seat at the table.

>

> As North Butte said, and it's rare I agree with him, maybe a private club isn't for you and your friends. But this is starting to sounds more like "it's too expensive to go to a game", when in fact it's just really expensive for the seats 3 rows behind home plate.

 

Like, if you honestly think a 19 year old (or in this economy anyone under the age of 40, frankly) has the same level of disposable income as a 65 year old retiree, and that no adjustment needs to be made there to get young members, I just don't even know how to keep having this conversation. Like I said, there is a deep seated generational divide, wherein one generation ruined the economy and the second is dealing with the fallout, that nearly all golf courses, private or public, don't bother accounting for, but then throw up their hands saying "We don't know how to get young people, it must be a niche sport" rather than actually figuring out a solution.

 

And to be clear, these are mostly people I met in Uni from a mixture of public and private courses across the province.

[North Butte]

The solution to not being able to afford grown-up dues at a fancy country club is to play golf somewhere cheaper.

 

High-end country club memberships are a TINY part of the golf world. The future of golf will not be saved or lost by how many cheap "junior executive" deals are handed at clubs like yours.

[HonestPlayer]

Is changing shoes in the parking lot considered bad etiquette ? This is hilarious I have been doing it every time I play outside my car before and after! Really funny and why would anyone be at all offended by it? What’s bad about it?

[LeoLeo99]

> @cmagnusson said:

> > @MountainKing said:

> > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > Probably means the kind of place where you're supposed to arrive in street clothes and shoes, change into golf Mufti in the locker room before the round, then back into street wear afterward. Some "traditional" clubs don't even want you wearing your golf shirt and/or shorts when eating lunch or drinking in the main bar (although they may have a golfer's bar where golf wear is allowed).

> > >

> > > You're basically supposed to be dressed up a little whenever you're not actually on the golf course. But it varies exactly how far a given club takes it. And it may vary depending on time of day or day of week.

> > >

> > > Kind of remarkable in 2019, isn't it?

> >

> > I'm always curious about the plan for these type of clubs for future survival. A lot of them seem to be stuck on the fact that the old money will never die off. I'm of the age where my generation is probably the first group to not really care for this traditional dressing up stuff, but deal with it now and then. When I do go play these clubs, the few times I have, they're always empty and the few people you see are generally the 55+ crowd. They do nothing to attract youth.

>

> I mean, what do 95% of golf courses do to attract youth?

>

> Completely full course on a Sunday morning at my home club for my weekly game, and I'm usually one of maybe 3 or 4 people under the age of 30. 60% of the membership is likely gonna be dead in the next 10-15 years. They have a junior membership rate but no program associated with it to speak of, and no teaching pro at the club.

>

> 55+ year olds are mostly guaranteed repeat money for a club unless you do something super dumb, the fact that people keep trying to cater to them rather than sinking almost all their marketing/recruitment efforts into 30-year old young professionals is simply moronic.

>

>

> Tradition is killing golf.

 

There is a large difference between classy and pretentious.

[caniac6]

Just go in the locker room. Wh> @HonestPlayer said:

> Is changing shoes in the parking lot considered bad etiquette ? This is hilarious I have been doing it every time I play outside my car before and after! Really funny and why would anyone be at all offended by it? What’s bad about it?

 

It is at some courses. I have never played, and probably never will play at one of those courses. But if I were ever invited to play at a course with rules like that, I would be respectful of their rules.

[North Butte]

> @HonestPlayer said:

> Is changing shoes in the parking lot considered bad etiquette ? This is hilarious I have been doing it every time I play outside my car before and after! Really funny and why would anyone be at all offended by it? What’s bad about it?

 

It either is or it isn't. I've played at least a handful of private clubs in my life where it's just not done. And dozens where you see people doing it. Totally club specific.

 

Of course I "change shoes" in my bedroom when I'm getting dressed before going to the course. So I'm probably below low class. Don't make the proper distinction between stuff I wear to play golf and stuff I wear to not play golf.

 

What is hilarious to me are the 40-something or 50-something arrested development cases who have to keep their flip-flops in the golf cart. They wear golf shoes to play but literally have to change back into flip-flop before getting out of the cart when they get back to the clubhouse after the round. You'd think their mama just told them it was OK to go to the pool or something.

[Bonneville85308]

> @"North Butte" said:

 

> What is hilarious to me are the 40-something or 50-something arrested development cases who have to keep their flip-flops in the golf cart. They wear golf shoes to play but literally have to change back into flip-flop before getting out of the cart when they get back to the clubhouse after the round. You'd think their mama just told them it was OK to go to the pool or something.

LOL. I get paired up with a ton of those guys, they are just like you describe, I don't understand them either. The second the cart stops back at the clubhouse they have to change into their nasty 10 year old flip flops, which they chose to store in the cart basket during the round along with my headcovers.

 

[North Butte]

> @Bonneville85308 said:

> > @"North Butte" said:

>

> > What is hilarious to me are the 40-something or 50-something arrested development cases who have to keep their flip-flops in the golf cart. They wear golf shoes to play but literally have to change back into flip-flop before getting out of the cart when they get back to the clubhouse after the round. You'd think their mama just told them it was OK to go to the pool or something.

> LOL. I get paired up with a ton of those guys, they are just like you describe, I don't understand them either. The second the cart stops back at the clubhouse they have to change into their nasty 10 year old flip flops, which they chose to store in the cart basket during the round along with my headcovers.

>

 

That's what I'm talking about. Must be a dozen of those guys every Saturday at our club.

 

Speaking of "changing in the parking lot", a couple weekends back I was getting my clubs out of the trunk and saw the best one yet. Guy pulled up in his Lexus, gets out wearing street clothes including shoes and when he opens the trunk he pulls out some flip-flops and puts them on with his slacks. Leaves the street shoes in the trunk.

 

I saw him later, he had apparently changed into shorts and a golf shirt in the locker room before teeing off (and into golf shoes). But he literally had to wear the flip-flops that 70 yards or so from the parking lot to the clubhouse. It's like if you're at the club and not wearing flip-flops you're not one of the cool kids.

 

Several of the flip-flop guys I see are in a certain clique that play together and hang around together. The flip-flops must be like sorority girls all wearning light blue tee shirts and having the same hair cut. It's how to signify being in-group!

[golfortennis]

> @cmagnusson said:

> > @Bluefan75 said:

> > > @cmagnusson said:

> > > > @Bluefan75 said:

> > > > > @cmagnusson said:

> > > > > > @MountainKing said:

> > > > > > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > > > > Probably means the kind of place where you're supposed to arrive in street clothes and shoes, change into golf Mufti in the locker room before the round, then back into street wear afterward. Some "traditional" clubs don't even want you wearing your golf shirt and/or shorts when eating lunch or drinking in the main bar (although they may have a golfer's bar where golf wear is allowed).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You're basically supposed to be dressed up a little whenever you're not actually on the golf course. But it varies exactly how far a given club takes it. And it may vary depending on time of day or day of week.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Kind of remarkable in 2019, isn't it?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I'm always curious about the plan for these type of clubs for future survival. A lot of them seem to be stuck on the fact that the old money will never die off. I'm of the age where my generation is probably the first group to not really care for this traditional dressing up stuff, but deal with it now and then. When I do go play these clubs, the few times I have, they're always empty and the few people you see are generally the 55+ crowd. They do nothing to attract youth.

> > > > >

> > > > > I mean, what do 95% of golf courses do to attract youth?

> > > > >

> > > > > Completely full course on a Sunday morning at my home club for my weekly game, and I'm usually one of maybe 3 or 4 people under the age of 30. 60% of the membership is likely gonna be dead in the next 10-15 years. They have a junior membership rate but no program associated with it to speak of, and no teaching pro at the club.

> > > > >

> > > > > 55+ year olds are mostly guaranteed repeat money for a club unless you do something super dumb, the fact that people keep trying to cater to them rather than sinking almost all their marketing/recruitment efforts into 30-year old young professionals is simply moronic.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Tradition is killing golf.

> > > >

> > > > You know, I hear all this "you'll never get them if..." Outside of slow play, I think a lot of it is hooey. If it isn't tucking your shirt in, it will be something else, but people who say they would never play golf if those are the rules, will find a way to not play golf. It's just an easier excuse than admitting it's hard and they don't want to have to put in as much effort.

> > > >

> > > > Not to mention, people change. 20 years ago if you'd have asked me if I would have become the type to expect shirts tucked in, i'd have said you were crazy. Lo and behold....

> > > >

> > > > Golf is a niche sport, and will always remain so. It will also remain one of the few sports you can play until you're in the ground.

> > >

> > > Yeah what do I know, not like I had a dozen friends who quit playing golf in university as soon as they aged out of their junior programs and were expected to pay and act like 70 year olds by their CCs...... oh, wait, nevermind.

> > >

> > >

> > > Millennials love golf, they just hate the establishment and they hate old boys clubs, which is what controls almost all golf courses. They are perfectly fine following rules, as long as the rules make sense and serve a purpose. They also hate being expected to be able to afford the same things that Boomers can after those same people ruined the economy and allowed the cost of living to skyrocket disproportionately to entry-level pay. Golf is actually a great microcosm of everything that is wrong with Western societies and the huge generational gap we see.

> > >

> > > Saying golf is a "niche sport" is a stupid and lazy excuse for not bothering to deal with the massive problems golf has with accessibility across non-traditional (read: non middle/upper class 40+ y.o. white) demographics.

> >

> > Aged out of their junior programs. Ok, I was wrong. It isn't about not wanting to admit it's hard. They don't want to pay the freight.

> >

> > I'm always willing to have a conversation with a full shareholder at my club about these kind of things. Amazingly, though, with one exception, whose daddy paid for his share, the shareholders have certain ideas and are fairly expectant people follow them. Unlike elections, where you can vote even if you don't pay taxes, you have to actually pay for your seat at the table.

> >

> > As North Butte said, and it's rare I agree with him, maybe a private club isn't for you and your friends. But this is starting to sounds more like "it's too expensive to go to a game", when in fact it's just really expensive for the seats 3 rows behind home plate.

>

> Like, if you honestly think a 19 year old (or in this economy anyone under the age of 40, frankly) has the same level of disposable income as a 65 year old retiree, and that no adjustment needs to be made there to get young members, I just don't even know how to keep having this conversation. Like I said, there is a deep seated generational divide, wherein one generation ruined the economy and the second is dealing with the fallout, that nearly all golf courses, private or public, don't bother accounting for, but then throw up their hands saying "We don't know how to get young people, it must be a niche sport" rather than actually figuring out a solution.

>

> And to be clear, these are mostly people I met in Uni from a mixture of public and private courses across the province.

 

I never said the younger guys can't have a lower fee with some restrictions. But I am saying that if you're on a year-to-year, lower fee membership, I'm really not interested in what you have to say about changing rules in my club. I bought the share, I pay the full freight, I'm only interested in what those who are doing the same have to say. Because what happens around here is there is a group that goes "deal shopping" every fall. They'll join one place for a year, and then the next year, shop for the deal at another club(we have about 6 in our city). Call me whatever you want, but if you aren't committed to the club, you don't get to change the rules. Not to mention, as North Butte has said multiple times, I'm not saying you can't play golf. You just can't play golf at my club if you aren't willing to follow our rules.

 

As to your "ruined the economy" etc., I think you need to have a conversation with someone who has been around even longer than me. You have no idea what "ruined" life even is. You're complaining about a f)(*$%g private golf club. The 98% of people who never even set foot on one 100 years ago are laughing their heads off at you right now, thinking you have it so tough. They barely got to play golf at all, much less at a private club. You may have an education, but it appears perspective was not one of the classes.