Dealing with a culture of gimme's (not holing out) and other cheating

[reidsou]

I recently joined a club where in competitive events, with money involved, members routinely pick up without holing out. It's contagious - we must give putts because "everyone else is doing it". The club pros sometimes play along in these events and will offer "gimme's" themselves.

There are a few long time club members who do not agree, and when I have played with them everyone must putt out. But that is rare.

One excuse for this is that many of the money events are self-organized, less formal competitions. However, I have witnessed the behavior carry over into more formal tournaments, and have seen other rules ignored as well. Club competitions are unfair.

Have others encountered this? What did you do about it?

[justasgood]

You play along or don't participate. You can always announce that you are putting everything out but really, your only option is to not play.

[Noles]

Sounds like there is not much you can do, If the pros are complicit. Do people give themselves putts or is it always agreed upon by the other players? If people are just picking it up on their own, start giving yourself really long putts. Start giving other people really long putts too. Make it absurd and maybe people will get the point.

[sdandrea]

I play in one group that is very casual that way, but we concede each other's putts, not our own. There is only $5 invested in the game. We're all close friends, it's fun and relaxing. I also play in a "real" golf group as well, but it's only a $10 game. We play it down and putt them out, but it's still a relaxed gang of guys. We're all in our 60s and 70s so we've learned not to take the game or ourselves too seriously.

[Z1ggy16]

For a legit stroke play tourney, that sounds pretty horrible. But for informal matches for a few bones, I don't see the big deal.

[Sawgrass]

I wonder if you can start a sub-league of like-minded people who wish to play by the rules.

[crazygolfnut]

I play with an older group and for the casual round they roll the ball and give putts less then the length of the putter. Even playing with them, I never roll the ball and I try to putt out but some times when I am walking up to my ball they knock it back to me. No big deal. On "real" rounds or tournament play, everything I play is down and by the rules. No giving putts etc.

[sui generis]

We've ten or so groups of old (and sometimes not so old) men at my place. I shopped around until I found the one that plays it down and holes 'em out.

[bladehunter]

This got started or tried to be started at my place. Even suggested pick rake and place in traps. Essentially allowing to tee it up. Was asked for on the club champ event. It literally only took two guys to get this ball rolling.

 

I got 3 together and balked. And it didn’t happen. But it would have had we not threatened to forfeit the event ( 3 committee members ). Very sad that it had to come to that. But unfortunately once a cheater always a cheater. The same two guys will roll it , talk their group into giving putts etc every Saturday dogfight. And these aren’t hack players. One is the senior club champion , the other would easily be a +1 to 0 cap if he posted all scores. Although maybe higher if he played it down. Don’t know. Never seen him do it. lol.

Best you can do OP is move away. They tell me there are clubs that don’t have this. I’m just not sure where to find one. If I do I’ll pm you the address. Lol.

[MtlJeff]

What type of "competitive " events are we talking about? Like a weekly skins match for 10$ or are we talking picking up in a big money vegas events and other stuff like that?

For weekly fun games for low dollars. Theres gimmes basically everywhere in my experience. Just gotta deal with it. If you want to putt everything out theres always events you can play in and also do it in your own personal rounds

If guys are picking up in club championships or big money Vegases...I'd probably talk to the pro in a respectful way. At least gauge his response on that. Because that's bad

[reidsou]

These are events with multiple groups where "protect the field" matters.

Yes people give themselves putts, including difficult ones. Our "senior club champion" is an outspoken, self-appointed putt giver. And he expects/demands reciprocation. For example, when faced with a three foot side hill putt.

When playing with him, I have missed several putts that were "good" for his more familiar playing partners. It's a test of assertiveness and clout.

As may seem obvious, the only putt that is "good" is one so short that you might as well putt it anyway as there is no stress about missing.

[reidsou]

As mentioned, most are informal multiple group events. In terms of money, most recently, the putt giver in the example I just posted won over $300. This bleeds over into more formal tournaments - where the same players pick up putts. And invoke rules interpretations like "assuming" a lost ball went into a penalty area.

There is some awareness of the problem and impulse to correct it. For example, at a weekly event the pro always announces that we must putt everything (which is ignored). Recently met the Committee chairman and he acknowledged they need to do better.

It's telling that the official version of the club's local golf rules has not been updated for 2019 USGA changes.

[MtlJeff]

If theres 300$ at stake I'd be pretty upset. Good that people are starting to talk about it

At my club we do weekly skins for 5-10$ so guys can win maybe 50-60$... but even then all birdie putts are putted out and you only win skins with birdies

I've seen guys pick up putts in like 5$ matches or games for beers. I dont stress much about that

A guy was caught picking up a putt once in a money Vegas (where there are thousands of dollars being bet) and he was banned for club events for like 3 years I think

[slocagolfer]

If you're playing a skins game conceding putts is okay in my book. After all, skins is a form of match play. A guy has a short putt for a 5 when he's out of the skin - give it to him and move the group along. Stroke play tournament, big money (my group has a big money skins game once or twice a year and it's "putt 'em all out.") is different.

[bladehunter]

You aren’t in South Carolina are you ? You’re describing my “ senior club champ giver “ to a tee. Lol.

[cardoustie]

the issue is some guys know to take one footers but other groups scoop up 3.5 footers

[reidsou]

We've slid all the way down the slippery slope. The only resolution I can see is to start following the rules and expect the same.

[Krt22]

Yeah but many skins games are played with multiple groups, in which case the stakes per hole can be pretty high, even with modest buy ins there are $100+ skins with enough players.. Big difference between a 2 foot uphiller and a 3.5ft downhill slider.

[slocagolfer]

I agree. Big money - no gimmies.

[Carl Spackler3]

Everyone has quirks in their groups. In my group fun is fun do what you like . As soon as money is involved it’s by the book and play it down

[Augster]

Skins games are match play. Even among multiple groups. When skins are only won with birdies, it’s not asking very much to putt all the birdie putts.

 

After that, where a par doesn’t matter, whether players pick up or putt out won’t affect the skins game at all.

 

Stroke play with people “giving” putts, even for nominal amounts, when there are multiple groups, sickens me.

[Shipwreck]

If you are going to play, you could always jokingly make a mockery of the whole thing. Every time you’re on the green just ask “is this good or do you want me to putt it out?” regardless of the length of putt. Or just putt everything out like you normally would and go about your day. If it’s that bothersome to you, I’d honestly look for a new group to play with that plays everything down.

[reidsou]

Gross and net skins are part of of our game. Sometimes a par can win a net skin. There are also gross and net components. Hundreds of dollars. I finished something like 8th and won $115.

On one short par 4 two players hit their approach shots to about 2.5 feet. I hit mine to 4 feet. Walked to the green admiring the view - 3 balls close!

Startled by an interruption - a competitor picked up the two balls, two gimme "birdies"! (Of course I missed my 4 foot putt after that.)

[reidsou]

I think you're right, thanks for the suggestions.

It may be possible to change long term, as I get to know the club better. (Or maybe I'll be assimilated!)

[MadGolfer76]

Assuming that score cards are being turned in, I would refuse to sign for someone picking up putts.

[reidsou]

I'm in another club where a member, who is a lawyer, proposed a bunker "lift, rake, and place" local rule for inactive handicap season events. Emailed the USGA to get them to weigh in. Already know that's not an authorized local rule.

Trying to get our club to follow USGA rules. I feel like these kinds of exceptions push us in the wrong direction.

[Sawgrass]

What’s your opinion of rule 21.5?

[Hawkeye77]

So two clubs of cheaters?

[rogolf]

Late in our season, when bunkers weren't being regularly maintained, someone suggested that the "group" had decided that a ball could be moved out of footprints etc . My response was to "play hard", there are good breaks and bad breaks everywhere on the course. I didn't see anyone moving their ball.

[reidsou]

Yes! Is it me?! :-)