Over/Under: PXG will still be in business in 5 years?

[MelloYello]

Well, there are "lots" of people here who have expensive graphite shafts in their clubs but we don't constitute enough of a market to keep the shaft manufacturers in business.

 

And you have to keep in mind that they're currently in the initial phase wherein they're pouring tons of money into prime-time ads in order to get people to notice them. They're using gas to start the fire. It's like Nike signing Tiger. You have to do something to get a foothold. That's understood. (I'm not saying this is bad).

 

The question is whether enough traction can be established to actually build a brand that lasts more than 10-15 years. They were founded in 2014 so the question is whether they'll still be willing to pour money into it in 2030 or whether PXG will look more like a novelty project and a loser as a money-making venture.

 

One thing PXG has over say, NIke, is that when Nike was doing golf, they were still doing 1000 other things which turned a lot of golfers off. PXG focusing exclusively on golf clubs is a good thing in their particular market (from an image standpoint). The question is whether enough people will buy their stuff to sustain them as a business. Right now that doesn't appear to be happening.

 

People keep mentioning how they don't have to turn a profit. That's all well and good until you stop kidding yourself and admit that no person--especially a wealthy entrepreneur--wants anything to do with a business that can't make money.

[GoGoErky]

Like was mentioned before they will be around as long as bob wants them to be or if he passes away the ones who take over. If he decides to pull out of the business tomorrow that’s all fine and good, other than for the employees of course. He went into business to do things his way and when he decides it’s over it’s over. He really has no one to answer to.

 

[setter02]

He's more like the Scotty of NA. Takes someone else's design (Ping engineers) and runs with it, kinda his own NP and NP2 given how awfully ugly his originals are...

[Kamen]

Good write up; I agree but I was just making a very high level statement. Also way too lazy to go that into detail lol.

I own a Tesla, and also work in the German luxury automotive industry so I am understanding of your points. However, having owned everything from a Honda to Tesla to a 911 and G wagon, I can say the Tesla is not luxury. It is technologically advanced and being first on the scene without a true competitor while also delivery a very easy to live with product is providing them with success while the rest of the industry seemingly is left in the dust. I will say it's the best vehicle I have ever bought so far! There are counter arguments to everything though, so if PXG really was the best everyone would be using them or at least a much larger % of the golfing population.

I think people are free to spend as they see fit. A few years ago I would never have considered PXG clubs based on price alone, however now I find myself with a set. My enjoyment is enough to justify it. Similar with a Rolex vs a Casio.

I guess you can say PXG clubs don't offer a significant tech advantage over their competitors (especially the fairways or putters etc) but I believe some of their irons are worth it. I paid for an iron I like the looks of and feel that would have some tech built inside to help me over say a pure Asian status symbol club. Every time I take my clubs over to play in China the caddies always check out my bag because like you alluded to they are used to seeing the Honma, Epons, and the Asian spec TM/Cally/Titleist etc.

[lakecowboy]

You are assuming they aren't turning a profit, and don't sell clubs because you don't see them. Everywhere I turn at my club there are PXG's. My entire Saturday morning group has PXG's.

[Shilgy]

Not sure where you get the idea they are not selling well. Your own part of the country? Your own club? The foursome you play with? Here at a private club in Phoenix I see a lot of bags with PXG and a lot of bags with the TM P790. I have hit the irons and they are nice. Are they worth 2 1/2 to 3 times more than other clubs? Not for me but who I am I to tell anyone how to spend their money? There are a lot of luxury cars driven here. Way more than most parts of the country I have been to. As transportation they are no better than a vehicle that is a quarter of the price.

For those that say the young of America today do not spend their money on luxury items...just wait. Many of the generation that buys PXG and Rolex and luxury cars are from the era of the peace love and groovy 60’s and would never have been pegged as luxury buyers either.

 

PXG will be fine and around for a long time)-apparently to the consternation of many.

[puttingmatt]

Perception sells, and I have to believe that PXG's margins

are excellent. So I see no reason for worry, expect PXG to

easily be around for a long time.

[SDG90]

As long as people think expensive gear will lower their scores, there’s room for a player like PXG. A lot of people are rocking $400+ Scotty putters as well, and I strongly doubt it makes them putt better.

Lets face it, you don’t buy a Rolex because it tells the time better than a Seiko. You buy it because you like it, because it makes you feel better. Same goes for PXG/Scotty Cameron/Miura. It’s a luxury item, a piece of jewelry. Every time I see guys swinging PXG clubs, their complete outfit is covered in PXG logos. It’s a way of saying you’re not the mainstream Taylormade/Callaway/Mizuno guy. I really believe there’s a market for niche players like PXG.

[wings02]

I'm trying to get an appointment for a fitting and have to wait. Don't bet against Bob Parsons. When PXG's were first released there was big sticker shock. Golfers have accepted the price and are purchasing the clubs.

What would the over/under have been 10 years ago that golfers would pay $500 for a driver

[ShallowbutDeadly]

I would say OVER, as long as Parsons is alive and kicking.

I went for a fitting Tuesday, the experience was unreal. I bought an iron set and don't think I would buy from another brand again. The performance was better than anything I've ever tried, the fitting experience was the best I've ever been to and I've been to TXG and the like; this company is class from top to bottom and the clubs are the best; I can't be the only one that has come to realize this.

[vpexp]

Where did you do your fitting?

[ShallowbutDeadly]

With a PXG master fitter directly.

[theclubdoctor]

Over

PXG will be around till Parsons gets bored with it or passes away.

[bogeypro]

you getting paid or something? this is a bit over the top and reads like an employee wrote it.

I'll say over because Parsons has deep pockets.

Let's look at the business strategy with PXG... What exactly is PXG's sustainable competitive advantage? PXG is trying to be different based on price, technology, fitting, style, and overall brand lifestyle. Lets look at these... Price - Yes, he is priced well above competitors that offer reasonable substitutes at cheaper prices. Fitting - every manufacturer does fitting. The quality of the fitting depends on the fitter actually doing the fitting. Other factors might be better - atmosphere, etc.., but they aren't offering anything that other brands don't do. Ping is well known for their fittings. Style is purely subjective. They do have a distinctive look. Now, the style affects the functionality in golf clubs. It is a pain in the arse to move screws to adjust ball flight. Other brands offer the ability to adjust ballflight and are simpler and quicker to do. Overall lifestyle - this is what PXG is banking on. PXG wants people to think buy into their brand due to the expensive prices of the clubs. Most PXG patrons want others to know that they paid more for their clubs. It's a brand based on price. Yes, they offer military and first responder discounts, but so do other brands. PXG are still more expensive than other brands. One has to ask themselves what are they paying for? PXG has no past heritage. Other brands can match the performance and technology. Other brands offer fittings. Other brands offer military discounts.

Looking at the above, the only thing that PXG really has is the lifestyle and the price. Is that enough to be a sustainable competitive advantage? I don't think it is, but I don't have any internal financial information on PXG. In the golf industry, suitable substitutes are easy found and brand loyalty is easy swayed. It's a fast paced market with quickly changing trends. PXG is banking on a very small number of golfers to remain profitable. It's a fickle group that is easily moved to other brands, styles, and technology. It'll all depend on how well they adapt to these changes.

I would look for PXG to do a few things in the future. I would expect them to introduce a value line that is maybe slightly higher priced than the competitors. I would also expect them to introduce an even higher priced line. Wait, both of these have recently been done. I would also expect them to try to expand into other areas besides equipment. That is where these PXG stores come in. I've actually seen a dog collar with PXG on it. This is where they will make the money - selling the brand itself.

[ShallowbutDeadly]

I wish I was paid. PXG is welcome to contact me via PM at any time, I would jump at the opp to be on staff!

Totally disagree with you. I'm coming from Miuras and in the last 2 months I have tested every single iron on the market at fitting studios and golf shops; nothing has come close to the performance of PXG, for me; they are tops in every category, distance, dispersion and forgiveness.

I couldn't care less about lifestyle, I don't buy the clothes/hats or dog collars.

I'm cheap! I want to spend as little as possible but I'm also a 100+ round a year golfer so I want the most enjoyment and fun. I'm the last guy that would spend the money if the performance didn't match. Many guys told me to try Mizuno. I tried every single iron they make multiple times and thought they were mostly average at best. Miuras are great and the build quality is awesome but they also aren't cheap and PXG's performance blows them out of the water.

I love how you predicted the future of what PXG is going to do by stating what they've already done! lol, that was laughable.

PXG is not for everyone. If you don't have the money, you can definitely get a beautiful set of used clubs from 1-2 years ago for an inexpensive price and there is nothing at all wrong with that. To me it's like Porsche, totally not necessary to drive one but if you can afford one and get to drive one for a period of time, you will see what the hype is all about. I can't afford to drive a Porsche, but after driving one for a while I can say I would love to drive one if I could afford it.

I personally think it's great they are a status symbol because they are able to charge high prices and plow that money into innovation. Without the high prices, they wouldn't be able to push the envelope and the reality is, for the majority of the people buying these clubs the amount of money is meaningless. I play with a guy who had PXGs a few years ago, he must have 40 watches worth a few million dollars, $8K of a full bag set is coffee money for members a lot of the private courses. Rolex sells 800,000 watches a year and the average selling price is probably 15K. Try walking into a rolex dealer and buying a sport watch, they don't exist, there isn't even a wait list anymore because the demand far outweighs the supply; that's for a watch that probably keeps worse time than an apple watch that sells for $400.

People that knock PXG are wasting their breath because the people that buy and use them, know they are better and will keep supporting the brand unless BP pulls the plug. The only reason I wanted to try PXG was because so many people hated on them, I figured they must be great because so many guys got their panties in a knot over the brand.

MAMBA OUT!

[jc88]

Over

[TheMoneyShot]

Over for sure!

[bogeypro]

I brought up what they've already done as a way of showing why they are doing it. I'm glad you laughed, it was meant to be tongue and cheek.

"nothing has come close to the performance of PXG, for me; they are tops in every category, distance, dispersion and forgiveness."

Out of curiosity, what is your handicap range or average score? I'm not doubting your findings and I'm glad you've found something that you like. I'm just trying to get an idea of your experiences.

 

[ShallowbutDeadly]

Currently a 9; beginning of 2019 I was a 13

 

[bogeypro]

Congrats! That's trending in the right direction.

[Benoit]

Imho definitely will be around in 5 years, couple years ago their driver came as outrageously expensive, now look at 2020 release...Their Driver is priced the same or nearly the same as a Taylormade etc...

Are they a high end brand? Sure they are. Are they expensive ? hell yes. Do I feel bad that I pay an iron 500$ while vets pays half if not less and does this get me thinking that I am a cow he is milking money out ? Totally NOT, he is doing something good to people that serve HIS country and whom might desire his golf clubs but might not be fortunate enough to afford them, he didn't have to give such a huge break to vet but he did, if he had given them 10%-20% discount it would have the exact same PR/Marketing effect, but he did put his wallet where is mouth is and in my books that's good;

Further more if you ask me if you made a few billion dollars already, I don't think you would start a golf company to make another billion... which get me believe his story that he does it because he likes the game. If he makes money while doing so, then good for him; I don't mind paying for something I like and nobody put on gun on my head forcing me to buy his clubs. I bought them because I liked the feel of the club and I played reasonably well with them and I liked the look; Call me crazy ? Maybe, but so are ppl buying a Porsche GT3RS and not a Toyota Prius since both will bring you from point A to point B.

 

 

[bogeypro]

Even with a discount, they aren't cheaper than other brands regular price. My buddy just bought a set of PXG for $2100 with military discount. Plus, taylormade and ping offer military discounts on their already lower priced clubs. Kudos to PXG for making a bigger deal out of it.... its better marketing.

[Benoit]

Yes sure if you walk in to buy a Porsche and get a discount it's likely that it will still be more expensive than a BMW. Nothing wrong with Ping, those are good clubs too, I just happen to like PXG better and after all what mater is what I like right ? You should get some pleasure out of any purchase you make, if buying those make me more happy then thats it :). Yes sure I can get 3 set of Ping for 1 set of PXG if not 4, but don't need 3-4 set I need one I like;

[ShallowbutDeadly]

I wouldn't play PINGs for free lol... worst feeling irons out of the OEMs, harsh, clicky, terrible. Only PINGs that are half decent are the Blue Prints but those are maybe for 1% of the golfers in the market.

You can get a set of 0211 for $875-1000 with some amazing shaft options; they feel every bit as great as Gen2s and blow the doors of any PING, Callaway or Taylor Made.

[ssfranny]

And therein lies the real reason for the PXG hate on WRX at least youre honest haha

[ssfranny]

Really where is the market for this?? They are all the brands you mention except legacy. Players buy them for the tech and yeah lot of it is prob status. I have 4 buddies who play PXG as well as I all handis from 2-10 and we play whatever we want. Frankly Ill give my golf money to a billionaires company who loves golf and takes care of the military.

[ShallowbutDeadly]

LOL... so true of most PXG haters

[bluedot]

The question is being asked only because PXG's cost so much relative to other clubs, but that in and of itself doesn't mean anything at all in a market economy.

Timex and Rolex are both 5 letter words ending in "x", but that's where the similarity ends; they aren't competitors in any respect. Timex is selling one product, Rolex is selling something entirely different. Timex tries to sell a LOT of their product, Rolex doesn't. There are other examples, like Toyotas and Bentleys, but you get the idea.

The real questions about PXG going forward have to do with how well the company is run as a business, more than about the golf market; there is always room for luxury goods IF the company is run correctly. I don't have any reason to think that PXG isn't run well, so I'll take the over.

[BirdieBob]

YES!!!!!BOB PARSONS FOR PRESIDENT

 

[bogeypro]

That’s not really a good example. Rolex and timex don’t target the same customer. PXG targets thevsane customers as titieist, ping, mixing, callaway, etc... these groups offer similar tech, similar performance, similar fitting, and easy substitutes. This is marketing and strategy 101... the only differentiator is price and perceived exclusivity. Is the the value proposition there to support this model long term? One would say no, but there are expensive JDM companies that do similar and are successful.