Over/Under: PXG will still be in business in 5 years?

[rjp322]

Doesn't matter. Parsons does not go after players. He only works with players that have an interest in his stuff and come to him. Doubt he ever gets a top 10 player because others will pay them. Id guess over though in 5 years

[lakecowboy]

They have 6 in the last 5 years that I know of, so I think its likely to go over on 3 in the next 5 years.

[larryd3]

No question OVER for the next 5 years and I'll go over on the 3 PGA tour wins in the next 5 years.

[GoGoErky]

Well let’s see titleist did it with tmb and cncpt irons, Callaway with epic irons and Tm with the p790 ti and yet never stopped offering the other clubs. These brands know there’s a market for the high end clubs but also know that not everyone wants to buy or is willing to pay those prices. They are in business to make money and cutting off the golfer not looking for high end is a bad business move

[Jvoom30]

it will be around for the foreseeable future only doing better and better from everything i have seen and read. although i wish they would get a different person for the commercials.

[Sean2]

Yes. Parsons says he is not in it to make money, so if that is not the driving force, there is no reason he won't be around.

[NorthTXGolf]

This is the most stupid attempt at putting down a brand lmao. PGA players shit is so custom and perfectly fit that they could literally play any brand and see very little difference. "Tour wins" basically should just call it "which company wants to spend the most paying the top end players."

[Londoner]

As long as rich folks think they can buy a "game" they will have a market.

So for ever.

[duffer987]

Who is buying the $1000+ sets that big OEMs are peddling? Non-pejorative people of means?

Anecdotally the golfers I've seen playing PXG were either armed services/ex services and/or better than average players. TBF, I didn't enquire as to their latest tax returns, so not sure on that account, but they could play.

[1Mordrid1]

I don't think people buy PXG based on tour results, but that would be an interesting over under bet.

[Kamen]

People said the same thing about Tesla, and look at them now. I bet PXG will be fine.

[ssfranny]

Well they were voted one of the fastest growing companies by Inc magazine.

Parsons Xtreme Golf

Also if their cost on Gen3 lates say is $200 an iron and they sell for $425 pretty good profit margin than say a Callaway that makes an Apex iron for $90 and sells to Golf Galaxy for $120. Also why going into aparrel hard more margin and likely why theyre opening retail stores as much for apparel as clubs. And as a lefty I really appreciate that ALL their clubs are in LH even the super expensive ST irons. Taylor Made and Mizuno only offer certain models in LH what are the cost of the molds like $10,000?

[1Mordrid1]

But couldn't you get the same performance from a cheaper brand used putter? Isn't that the point of bashing PXG?

[bdmiller61]

100% over. My club in the Dallas area alone keeps them in business

[dhen9]

Over. They are the market. Once upon a time, say 3 product cycles ago, irons were $90-115 per and now... $175 for CF19, P790, HMB. Are these irons $425, no, but Callaway, TM, and Mizuno purists likely never thought they'd see near $200 per club just a few short years ago. PXG has taught other in the marketplace that in the current economy there's room to ask for more. If there's a strong contraction in US consumerism then maybe we see some of these prices level but the toothpaste is out of the tube and all club manufacturers now know there's more disposable income out there for them to get so long as they build a high quality product and offer a unique service. Full disclosure, I've owned every gen of 0311 but NEVER and woods, hybrids, wedges or putters.

[MelloYello]

Tesla has significant technological leverage on their competition though which means they deliver something everyone wants in a far better way than all their competitors. If you've ever shopped around in the electric car market you will know that Tesla has all the stuff you want and that most/all other electric options are generally smaller, budget-friendly things that restrict performance and comfort in order to offer something at a more reasonable cost. So if you can afford a Tesla it is by all measures the superior option.

 

It's an expensive brand (Tesla) but that's a reflection of the cost of electric vehicle technology. Tesla merely delivers performance and range the way average people are accustomed to. They are the only electric car that can travel "normal" distances. Most electric vehicles restrict the traveler to something like 75-miles (or less) on a single charge. And they all sacrifice on comfort with things like A/C and Heat often having a direct impact on range.

 

Tesla isn't more expensive because of vanity is what I'm saying. They represent what you have to pay to get normal performance. Essentially, the electric car market is for people in big cities with short commutes. The Tesla is more a full-feature vehicle. Hence they have leverage on the market. They have a "niche" if that's what you want to call it.

 

How can you imply that a golf club manufacturer has that same technological leverage?

 

You're essentially making the argument that the only reason people don't have PXG is due to money and I don't think that's true at all. Given what people in here spend on equipment, I don't think the lack of PXG popularity has anything to due with the market's lack of funding, really.

 

I think most people just find it rather illogical to spend more money when they don't necessarily feel it would net them a better product. Whatever "technology" separates one brand from another these days is widely recognized to be pretty inconsequential. And I'm not by any stretch convinced that what PXG offers can even be called "better." As far as I can tell, PXG simply chooses to charge more and attempts to justify that with claims that somehow their clubs are more sophisticated and that there are implied performance advantages.

 

If you said that about a Tesla you'd be telling the truth: it's larger, it's more spacious, it goes farther, it goes faster, it's more luxurious inside, etc. There are obvious reasons it's more expensive. You're paying more to get more.

 

But things that are simply more expensive for the sake of being more expensive rely on an altogether different philosophy which says that wealthy people will buy the product as a status symbol. You do know there are expensive gold drivers on Ebay that sell for thousands of dollars, right, haha? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Honma-Golf-Beres-S-05-Driver-ARMRQ-infinity-48-5Star-Flex-R-10-5-24K-Pt1000-ring/153743410057?hash=item23cbd24389:g:EL4AAOSwYoZd4SWN

 

If a guy want's a status symbol, that's a totally different thing than what PXG is doing. I don't think PXG is marketing themselves as a status symbol at all. They would be terribly under-priced if so. They would be the workingman's status symbol if there is such a thing, haha.

 

As far as I can tell, PXG is trying to market their price as being a reflection of technological sophistication. But I don't think the market is at all convinced that their claims are backed up by real evidence though. So I don't really trust that they'll have the sustainability of a high-performance option (Tesla) nor a status symbol (Honma).

[MelloYello]

You're correct. I paid $100 for my Scotty and it replaced a $35 Odyssey I had obtained used. I never had a Scotty so I wanted to try it. Would I recommend spending $100 on a Scotty? Eh, yeah, that's fair. From my experience all Anser-type putters feel exactly the same. Some make slightly different noises but that's sort of irrelevent. The notion of paying $300+ is definitely illogical.

 

Then again, what "better" option" do I have for less than $100? I used to have a Cleveland Anser-style putter that I believe was around $80 new. I gave that to a family member. That was basically just as good. I'll be the first to say that.

 

I suppose I could buy a $25 beginner model. Then again, those look pretty bad. I'm willing to pay $100 or $150 for better aesthetics. I don't think that's vanity per se. I think that's personal preference. If I think it looks better, then it's serving a purpose.

 

Paying more for something that's essentially the same though and has no obvious benefit (even to me)? That would be illogical.

[forrester_fire]

I mean, there is like a 5000% markup on their products, so I don't see why they can't be profitable.

[forrester_fire]

The traditional OEMs know who butters their bread.

[GoGoErky]

not sure may people realize they use 5 step forging process for their irons and each mold costs about 10k so for one 0311 head it’s 50k. For a set of 8 that’s 240k. Then they have 3 different 0311 lines with both rh and lh. So 480k just head on one line

[forrester_fire]

That's just the initial mold. I'd also like to see where those figures are coming from.

[uglande]

They are nice clubs but overpriced even for a premium line. But if they move their prices down -- as they have started to with some lines -- they could find a sweet spot, with more players coughing up the extra dough for clubs with quality materials, good component options and good customer service. I think there are a lot of guys like me who are willing to spend a little more but they want something more in return. Prestige alone isn't worth paying 50 percent more.

So, I'll say 50 percent chance they are around in five years and 10 percent change they are around in 10 years.

[MtlJeff]

I cant imagine any rational answer being under 5 years. Given their owner an acquisition is very unlikely and 5 years isn't that long for a business that is already established

[GoGoErky]

That comes from an article/interview the spies did with pxg. You can find it on their home page in the article in the gen3 irons.

While that made be the initial mold there are still other costs associated with club making. R&D, materials, etc.

[forrester_fire]

Yes, but every other OEM incurs those same costs, if not more so because they offer many more models.

[tungstenplug]

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Edited February 26, 2023 by tungstenplug

[1Mordrid1]

But not a 5x process per club. And they also have nowhere near as much machining and milling done on each iron.

So not only do the other OEMs not need as many molds for each line, but they also sell a higher number of the clubs, which brings also brings down their production costs as well. PXG's production costs are higher because of the processes they use. They believe them to be a superior way of forging and making clubs and are unwilling to compromise that to shave a few bucks off their club prices.

And I do not know for sure, but I would bet a huge amount that PXG spends a higher percentage of their sales revenue on R&D than any of the other OEMs.

[forrester_fire]

It sounds like marketing nonsense to me, but whatever.

[MelloYello]

The problem is convincing people to pay for stuff like extra milling.

 

There are a large number of ways an OEM could make his clubs more expensive. The question is whether it does any good to the buyer. If the market isn't moving on the product because they don't believe it to be better, then in the long run it'll die off.

 

I just wonder who's buying this stuff. I never see anyone around here with PXG. The only times I've run across them have been in the hands of some no-nothing who apparently didn't think too much about costs or maybe he thought spending more would naturally get him a better driver.

 

But really, where is the market for this? It's not a player's brand. It's not a status symbol brand. It's not a legacy brand. It's not a purist's brand. I don't really see what's there to make it stick?

[GoGoErky]

there are lots of military and first responders playing them.

I was on a golf trip with about 90 guys last year and there were 4 sets that I know of in the group. Also they have had several occasion where the volume of orders slowed down assembly/shipping by several weeks over their typical lead times.