Over/Under: PXG will still be in business in 5 years?

[tannyhoban]

Sure thing. It's amazing what one will cling to.

[1Mordrid1]

Yes Ping Clubs can be bent . But he is correct that it is difficult to find someone who will do it. Even some of the bigger name fitters will send PING clubs in rather than do it themselves. I know firsthand from when I tried to find someone to bend my G700s back to oem spec. And 2 of the places I went had PING certified fitters on their staff.

[ShallowbutDeadly]

I have been to Ping certified fitters and they would NOT do it.

I will definitely stick to what I know because the information comes from Ping certified fitters and Ping itself.

If you don't believe me, CALL THEM!https://ping.com/en-us/club-repairYes, so you know better than Ping knows. What a load of BS!Yes, clinging to the facts. Call Ping and ask them, but I doubt you will because you already know the answer.

Any iron can be bent, I'm not disputing that, but bending a Ping iron will increase the likelihood of ruining it, damaging the finish and voiding the warranty. All three are not desirable.

 

[ShallowbutDeadly]

Thank you. Exactly the same information I got.

[rjp322]

Never said anything about you as a club fitter. Just stated that most good club builders I’ve been around here Have told me they do not want to work on ping irons and to send them to ping.

[Nixhex524]

Opened up a PXG thread, went right to page 5, and the talk is all Ping. Original.

PXG on the over....

[tannyhoban]

How do they adjust loft at factory? They beat on them with a mallet, ha.

Of course they will say "could" damage when adjusting. That doesn't prove anything.

Some fitters err to the side of caution. It's as simple as that.

[dan360]

Yes. Why wouldn't they be? They're 6 years in at this point and are getting better.

[tungstenplug]

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Edited February 26, 2023 by tungstenplug

[1Mordrid1]

Who are these " a lot of people"?

And where and what is the sample size for these "lot of people" to come to that conclusion.

Whoever they are, have they ever seen the way Ricky Fowler plays on the weekend. And if so do they blame Cobra? Because your post makes it sound like PXG is to blame for them falling back instead of their subpar play.

[Nessism]

You really should stop because you don't know what you are talking about. Bending Ping's is no big deal from a technical standpoint. In fact, all Ping heads are made to one lie angle and then they are bent to the specific color code ordered when the clubs are built. The lie angle does not move back after bending. That's technically impossible and anyone claiming otherwise doesn't understand material science. Yes it's true that Ping doesn't not sanction bending by Joe Lunchpail clubmaker, but that's because they don't want hack builders damaging the clubs and then asking for a warranty replacement. As for cost, Ping's are a LOT cheaper than PXG and your highlighting the cheapest PXG and most expensive Ping option doesn't change that. Oh, and the 0211 are not in the same forgiveness league as a 410 or 710. Not even close.

[Nessism]

Regarding PXG and whether or not they will be in existence in 5 years, it seems almost certain the answer is yes.

A lot of people in this thread mention Parson's and his money, suggesting he's propping up a money losing company, but we (outsiders) have no information regarding the financial performance of the company. If they are making money which is quite likely, there is no reason they will close anytime soon.

[Warrick]

Also the reason these threads always go the same way, has to be a handful that exude arrogance and are condescending to others and other clubs.

It is purely assumption to say someone can’t afford a set.

If they admit it fine, but have seen that posted very few times.

I am no fan, but they will be around

[ShallowbutDeadly]

410s might be the worst feeling clubs I've ever tried. They are not even close to 0211 in terms of feel and forgiveness in my opinion. I would say 0211s are worth at least double, if not more. 710s I haven't got yet but based on the reviews I've watched there is also nothing special about them except the black coating that lasts about 10 bunker shots until it's ruined.

Other than Blue Prints, Pings for me are harsh feeling irons with forgiveness that is behind the competition. They need to step up their game.

In terms of bending them, I have no doubt there are some hacks outs there that will void the warranty and ruin the clubs for you, if you desire; a too class builder will not. If I was a current Ping owner, I'd send them in to be adjusted as Ping suggests but there are always builders like yourself that think they know better than the company.

[marmaduk]

this is an interesting discussion because I think the underlying question is whether or not you distain unnecessary spending for the sake of ego.

I think we can all agree that PXG are no better or worse than anything else on the market. There is no literal benefit to gaming PXG over any other brand. If there were then everyone would use them.

in the end I think this is an emotional question on how you were raised (nurture and nature) to regard luxury/unnecessary spending. People who are raised with modest means and humble parents will most likely distain the company PXG and what they stand for. People who were raised in a more capitalistic environment will think opposite.

There is no right or wrong opinion. there is no black or white. In fact there is no benefit at all in worrying about what other people do with their time and money. We should all be more conscious about projecting our beliefs on others.

 

[Nessism]

The 410's have one of the highest MOI's of any iron ever to hit the market according to Maltby (an independent outside party) and high MOI = off center strike forgiveness. This is FACT, not opinion. If you look at the i210, iblade, i700, etc you will see that in every category that Ping competes in they lead the way in high MOI. You go ahead and believe what you want though. Personally, I like the 0211's, but it's clear as day to those with knowledge that they are not the end all be all regarding forgiveness.

Oh, and this "hack" (me) bends irons all the time, including Ping's. I see no reason to send them to Ping and incur the cost ($50+) and waiting time of doing so when I can bend my whole set at home in half an hour. Regarding "knowing better than the company", this is a silly comment. Again, since you apparently didn't read my comment the first time, Ping's are not overly difficult to bend. The only really good reason to send them in is to cover your butt in case one would break, which is unlikely. If breakage scares you then send in the clubs. Simple solution as long as you don't mind spending the money and waiting. My experience with bending hundreds of Ping's suggests this there is very low risk of breakage. If I were to break one I'd just send in the club and have Ping install a new head at my cost. I've saved enough money by bending myself to pay for dozens of replacements should that come to be, which is unlikely.

[Tiptx1122]

You really don't believe that do you. No body run a business without wanting to make money

[ShallowbutDeadly]

I disagree. I for one feel they are better, performance wise than anything on the market.

If you watch the James Robinson review this morning on YouTube, in the comments someone asks him if money wasn't an issue, would he drop his mp20 Mizunos and play the PXG gen3, he reluctantly said yes and keep in mind he is sponsored by Mizuno, clubs were free.

[ShallowbutDeadly]

Parsons is not an idiot. He was worth over $2b when he started PXG and anyone can analyze Callaways profits because they are public. If you think he did this to increase his net worth you are sadly mistaken, there is not enough money in golf equipment to move the needle in terms of his wealth. I certainly agree his intention isn't to piss away hard earned wealth but he surely won't be making enough profit to matter, for his personal wealth. If you want to make huge money, you start a tech company, not a golf equipment company.

[MtlJeff]

I don't think you can really generalise how people spend their money. Some people come from money and don't spend much, some people make a lot of money and don't spend much....and the opposite is also true. Some people want to give off the impression they have more money than they do, and some just spend because they have it and they can

There are all types. Certainly owning a set of PXG's is a lot more attainable than say, a Lamborghini. I would say 5-6K is not out of reach for many golfers.

I think as with many arguments, it's the people with extreme views who dominate discussion because they are the most passionate. 90% of golfers probably don't care one way or the other about PXG

[Tiptx1122]

then let's see him lower the cost as he is not breaking even thats for sure. He is making a pretty nice profit.

[Tac]

No better or worse? I would disagree with that statement.

Anybody who has been fit for clubs has probably discovered that, for them, some clubs work better than others.

A little over a year ago I was fit for a set of Mizuno MP18s. They were a hair better than the Titleist blades I tried but definitely better for me than the TM and Callaway irons I tried.

Why? Turf interaction, design... I dunno. But the numbers showed me that was the case.

[ShallowbutDeadly]

I can't speak to any Maltby studies but for me, I have been to two agnostic fittings in the last year and Pings were not even in the conversation (they didn't crack the top 10 in irons). For Driver and fairway wood, they are right up there with the best. I can tell you that the G410s were one of the worst I tried in terms of dispersion but what was worse than the dispersion was the feel. They are one of the harshest feeling irons I tried, even with a graphite shaft. Both fitters basically said the same thing, Ping customers are guys that have always been Ping customers and come into fittings only wanting to try Ping. Both said they sell very little Ping irons to people that don't fall into that Ping legacy customer camp. I have a buddy like that, he's a ping lifer, won't even think about trying another brand. At first, I thought there was something valid about that so I've tried Pings over and over and over again, I've tried to like them but the performance, forgiveness and most of all feel is just not up to snuff. I would gladly game Pings over PXGs if they were better. I don't desire to spend more and honestly shouldn't be spending more but I play a lot of golf and for me, I want the best experience because I'm on the course hundreds of hours a year.

Regarding the bending of Pings, do as you wish. I'm just glad you aren't my builder. You can ruin a club without snapping it; it's very easy to ruin the integrity of a cast. Other OEMs don't advise sending the clubs back to be bent, there is a reason for that. Personally, I don't really care what you do with your clubs and other people's, if they trust you, that's on them. I can tell you that I have been to two world class fitting studios that are Ping certified and both won't adjust Pings in-house.

[braincramp52]

You're wasting your time and energy Ness.

[1Mordrid1]

Generalizations like this are never accurate. I know people who drive luxury cars but will only buy used golf clubs. Does that mean they value money or don't value money?

As for whether PXG clubs are better or not, maybe they are not better for you, but for others they may be. Then it is up to that person to decide if they are worth the price. When I got my 0211s I hit at least 10 different irons, and the PXG did perform thr best for me. No ot was not a night and day difference, but they still did perform better.

There are some out there that will buy PXG as a status. And there are a lot of us out there that buy them because they perform well for us. You can't just lump everyone in to some predetermined stereotype because not everyone thinks the same or values everything the same.

In a way Its similar to premium shafts or tour issue equipment. There are people out there that think it is a waste to spend $400 on a shaft, and others swear buy them. There are people who will only play tour issue equipment even though it costs 2 to 3 times more expensive.

As for PXG lasting, like others said, barring BP's untimely death PXG is not going anywhere. I know several people have said no one runs a business to not make money. Well if you took the time to research or watch Bob Parson's interviews about PXG, he says PXG is all about his passion with golf, it has never been about business.

[Z1ggy16]

As long as Bob Parsons can keep funneling money in, then of course it will be in business. Bentley... Lamborgini and all kinds of other mega lux car brands are still in business, so why wouldn't a lux golf brand be able to stay afloat? Enough cash from BP himself or other investors can keep this thing going almost indefinitely I would imagine.

[braincramp52]

Damn! I wonder how pros even play with irons so bad! I can't believe Ping has stayed in business for so long. I guess Ping players loyalty is so strong it's easy to want to play a crappy iron (not even in the top 10) just because it says Ping on it. But go ahead and ignore history and keep on drinking your PXG Kool-Aid or any one of the other 9 brands of irons better than Ping.

[ShallowbutDeadly]

Again, I don't think referring to pros is a discussion. Firstly, pros play irons that aren't available to the general public, secondly, pros are pros, they pure the ball 95% of the time. If you can pure a blade, you don't need high MOI or forgiveness. Ping pros are playing the Blue Prints which a) are expensive, b) forged, c) the best irons they've ever made, and d) the wrong iron for 99% of the average golfer because they require pure strikes and lack forgiveness.

There is no doubt Ping has a long history and thousands upon thousands of loyal clients. At one point they were probably making the best equipment in golf and the beauty about branding is when you get someone loyal to your brand, unless you really screw it up, you have a chance of keeping the client for a good long while, even if you've been surpassed. How many people eat at the same restaurant every week and never explore anything new, humans don't like change.

For me, there is no Kool-aid, like I mentioned above, I would rather spend $700 on irons and save the money but PXG tests out at the best and I spend hundreds of hours a year on the golf course and don't want an inferior experience to save a few thousand bucks. I keep clubs usually for 4-5 years so the cost per year of playing what's the best is very small.

I challenge anyone to go to a fitting and put any Ping iron against a PXG Gen3, and to be honest with yourself. I have seen a bunch of people do this and every time they walk away saying "damn, I didn't want to believe this!"

[Tac]

Not in his top 10! They weren’t in my either.

What is it difficult (and apparently an insult) for people to comprehend that some brands of clubs play better and some play worse for different people?

[Sean2]

Depends on the context. If you have as much money as Parsons, PXG is simply a hobby he is passionate about. He seemed sincere when he said he wasn't worried about the profitability of PXG and that he wasn't in it to make money. It's not like he started this business on a shoestring budget and not knowing where future cash infusions would come from.