True spec fitted me into a graphite design tsg blue?wtf is that

[phizzy30]

On 6/27/2021 at 9:19 AM, MiTFar said:

How funny (in an suspiciously coincidental sort of way). So glad I stumbled across this thread. I was just fitted with True Spec earlier this week. They fit me into the EXACT two shafts mentioned in this thread -- the Fuji Pro XLR8 for my driver and the GD Tour AD TSG Blue for my 3 wood. Jmnx973, I had your EXACT thought when I googled that Fuji Pro shaft, i.e., why in the hell am I paying $275 for a 5 year-old shaft?!? My thoughts are just as yours -- there HAS to be something newer that is comparable. The strange thing is, that shaft did give me the best numbers (and I have been fit enough to know what I am looking at. Wasn't just taking his word for it). Same with the 3 wood shaft. 

 

My issue now is that it calls into question the credibility of the whole process in my mind. Seems pretty clear they are pushing a 5 year-old shaft simply for the profit margins it produces for them. Have to be getting that thing dirt cheap from Fuji. Hell, maybe bought all their old inventory at a HUGE discount, which they are now turning around and selling at new-shaft price points. 

 

My "fix" is to get a second opinion. Going this coming week to my old fitter who uses Trackman outside (versus inside with True Spec). Curious to see the results. 

Look into the Ventus line if you're willing to shell out 275+bucks.  Worth every penny and you will fit into either the black, blue or red. 

[mistaklavin]

1 hour ago, phizzy30 said:

BB and XC are both mid-low launch/low spin models.  Strange that the TSG would tout their made for shaft as high launch/low spin.  Only two shafts from GD that match that profile would be the DI and IZ. 

Yeah. To be honest, I really have no idea without being able to measure EI profile. I will say that the shaft feels great, and does feel softer than the XC towards the handle section but feel is subjective so don’t take my word for it. 

[jmnx973]

On 6/27/2021 at 12:19 PM, MiTFar said:

How funny (in an suspiciously coincidental sort of way). So glad I stumbled across this thread. I was just fitted with True Spec earlier this week. They fit me into the EXACT two shafts mentioned in this thread -- the Fuji Pro XLR8 for my driver and the GD Tour AD TSG Blue for my 3 wood. Jmnx973, I had your EXACT thought when I googled that Fuji Pro shaft, i.e., why in the hell am I paying $275 for a 5 year-old shaft?!? My thoughts are just as yours -- there HAS to be something newer that is comparable. The strange thing is, that shaft did give me the best numbers (and I have been fit enough to know what I am looking at. Wasn't just taking his word for it). Same with the 3 wood shaft. 

 

My issue now is that it calls into question the credibility of the whole process in my mind. Seems pretty clear they are pushing a 5 year-old shaft simply for the profit margins it produces for them. Have to be getting that thing dirt cheap from Fuji. Hell, maybe bought all their old inventory at a HUGE discount, which they are now turning around and selling at new-shaft price points. 

 

My "fix" is to get a second opinion. Going this coming week to my old fitter who uses Trackman outside (versus inside with True Spec). Curious to see the results. 

I got the driver, have been liking the shaft but agree it is suspicious that they put you in a high margin shaft.  

 

[nitram]

It's kind of like not trusting a general practitioners diagnosis of you having an illness. Seek a second opinion from a specialist. In all honesty I would be happy to still be prescribed with a 757 or Blueboard until they introduced the Ventus VeloCore. 

 

In my "vintage bag" I have old Speeders, 1st-Gen Flowerbands, Matrix TPHD, Aldila NV, and the GraffaloyBlue. All of these will still perform admirably and feel like an old pair of Hush Puppies. But they don't perform as well (measurable indifference) as the newer offerings. As an example, the Ventus VeloCore offers me and my declining speed speed more distance and better dispersion than anything, ever. 

 

So IMHO, it's wise to take the opinion of TSG and go to someone else and compare the results.

[AV13]

On 4/1/2021 at 7:58 PM, qntnhooker said:

 

Where did you find out that the TSG silver is the Tour AD 9003? I am looking for shafts with a similar profile to the TSG silver 75x. Ventus Blue 7x?

the fitter told me the TSG Silver fell in between the AD TP & AD GP

[mogc60]

On 7/7/2020 at 10:52 PM, phatcatkev said:

Hey everyone - just seeing this do not sure if it’s relevant or not but figured I would chime in.

I got fitted by TS in March and asked “if you guys are brand agnostic, why are you partnering with brands?” The fitter told me that as they fit golfers, they find some characteristics that don’t exist in shafts the way they think would be optimized best.

They then work with GD and Mitsubishi to build those shafts.

Graphite design is the most confusing shaft brand already. 58 models that are so close to each other. Hard to believe there would be any gap in the line. 
Now the truth….graphite design makes made for shafts for them that cost the minimal amount to produce and don’t have the premium materials. Lower cost to the fitter and higher margins when they gun you $400 for a $65 shaft. Not saying it’s a poor shaft because I’m sure the made for shafts fit a large number of people they fit, but you asked what the shaft is.  It’s a shaft purely designed for high margin profit for the fitter. 

Edited October 12, 2021 by mogc60

[Thayneil]

8 hours ago, mogc60 said:

Graphite design is the most confusing shaft brand already. 58 models that are so close to each other. Hard to believe there would be any gap in the line. 
Now the truth….graphite design makes made for shafts for them that cost the minimal amount to produce and don’t have the premium materials. Lower cost to the fitter and higher margins when they gun you $400 for a $65 shaft. 

Try 35$!

[NAM2212]

I didn’t get fit into the GD TSG but my fitter tried really hard to get me into it. I had more swings with it than any of the other shafts he tried. I could tell from seeing the ball flight it wasn’t going to work. He did tell me it was low launch and low spin and was a mix between the 9003 and another shaft. Can’t remember what exactly he said though. 

Edited October 12, 2021 by NAM2212

[Shilgy]

On 9/23/2021 at 6:48 PM, nitram said:

It's kind of like not trusting a general practitioners diagnosis of you having an illness. Seek a second opinion from a specialist. In all honesty I would be happy to still be prescribed with a 757 or Blueboard until they introduced the Ventus VeloCore. 

 

In my "vintage bag" I have old Speeders, 1st-Gen Flowerbands, Matrix TPHD, Aldila NV, and the GraffaloyBlue. All of these will still perform admirably and feel like an old pair of Hush Puppies. But they don't perform as well (measurable indifference) as the newer offerings. As an example, the Ventus VeloCore offers me and my declining speed speed more distance and better dispersion than anything, ever. 

 

So IMHO, it's wise to take the opinion of TSG and go to someone else and compare the results.

So pay for two fittings?

 

As to the bolder part…is that “a measurable indifference” as you wrote or “measurable in difference”?  Bit of a different connotation.

 

 

[nitram]

measurable in difference.

 

And yes, if I do not trust or for some other reason fail to

19 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

So pay for two fittings?

 

As to the bolder part…is that “a measurable indifference” as you wrote or “measurable in difference”?  Bit of a different connotation.

 

 

accept the results of the fitting, I'd seek another opinion.

[JCAG]

Duplicate. Sorry.

Edited October 12, 2021 by JCAG

[JCAG]

Along these lines. Some years back all computer stores were willing to meet or beat the price if you could find that model computer cheaper at another store. Depending on how many computers a chain would order, the manufacturers would do things like use a different color cable so they produced say Model 123a and Model 124b with the only change being the color of the cable. With that the computer stores could say well they are different models so we do not have to price match.

 

I think there are a lot of graphite shafts that the only difference is the paint job, name, not actual specs.

Edited October 12, 2021 by JCAG

[RogerinNewZealand]

And they are all(GDI's) Smooth to help with the Equally Smooth Sales Pitch🤣

[mogc60]

I wouldn’t pay the AWD price for a vehicle without AWD. I feel like that’s what the fitters are doing with their proprietary branded shafts. It’s not the same shaft as the premium models. Yet they charge premium pricing. I don’t think anyone would pay $300 for a ventus shaft without the velacore.  Graphite design makes great products but you can get the real deal premium models for the same price or less than the fitter gouges customers for.  I think fitting is great but no way on any planet would I ever purchase from one. 

[mogc60]

5 hours ago, NAM2212 said:

I didn’t get fit into the GD TSG but my fitter tried really hard to get me into it. I had more swings with it than any of the other shafts he tried. I could tell from seeing the ball flight it wasn’t going to work. He did tell me it was low launch and low spin and was a mix between the 9003 and another shaft. Can’t remember what exactly he said though. 

Oh the 9003 cocktail shaft. 🍷

[phatcatkev]

I think we are comparing apples to oranges when discussing "made for" shafts. I don't think comparing the Graphite Design "made for" True Spec shaft to a Ventus made for Taylormade without Velocore is a fair comparison.

One maybe has 1000-2000 made (I was told they order in batches of 50) VS one that has maybe 30k-50k (total estimate) made? I would think the quality of the one with less made would be higher...

[Valtiel]

2 hours ago, phatcatkev said:

I would think the quality of the one with less made would be higher...

You might think that, but why though? Pretty much all of these shafts are being made the same way, so the only difference comes down to materials used and manufacturing tolerances. When negotiating unit costs i'm sure the large order comes with a lot more negotiating power, but that is really it. I don't have any hard data or insider knowledge to back this up, but when places like TSG are having their own "in house" versions of shafts made that then try to push in fittings, it is because it benefits them financially to do so, otherwise why do it? Best case scenario they have actually have identified something that can be done better (dubious) and sought out a bespoke product just for them. More likely scenario, they're having a shaft from Graphite Design's lineup reproduced/slightly tweaked with cheaper materials (Graphite Design tends to use the "good" stuff for almost everything) so they have something they can push with better margins.

IMO there are FAR too many shafts out there to make the claim "we found something no one else does so we had it made just for us". 

[third-times-a-charm]

11 hours ago, Valtiel said:

You might think that, but why though? Pretty much all of these shafts are being made the same way, so the only difference comes down to materials used and manufacturing tolerances. When negotiating unit costs i'm sure the large order comes with a lot more negotiating power, but that is really it. I don't have any hard data or insider knowledge to back this up, but when places like TSG are having their own "in house" versions of shafts made that then try to push in fittings, it is because it benefits them financially to do so, otherwise why do it? Best case scenario they have actually have identified something that can be done better (dubious) and sought out a bespoke product just for them. More likely scenario, they're having a shaft from Graphite Design's lineup reproduced/slightly tweaked with cheaper materials (Graphite Design tends to use the "good" stuff for almost everything) so they have something they can push with better margins.

IMO there are FAR too many shafts out there to make the claim "we found something no one else does so we had it made just for us". 

 

Bingo. Part in bold especially.

[JCAG]

My numbers are not up to date but a friend of mine was in Sales Management for Grafalloy before TT bought them. I was told that a major OEM placed a significant order for a shafts that was identical in specs to one they were selling to component companies for about $18 per shaft. Callaway was paying $6 per shaft with the only difference being a Callaway paint job. They did say it was a hard bargain that many at Grafalloy did not want to take, but Grafalloy could not afford to turn it down.

 

One of the largest expense items, if not the largest, for a major OEM is Marketing. The materials cost surprisingly little.

 

In a one person, custom golf shop, 1/3 of expenses went to overhead (rent, utilities, insurance, tools, etc.), 1/3 to material costs (heads, shafts, grips, etc.), and 1/3 to the clubmaker.  So that shop needed sales of about $120K per year for the clubmaker to make about $40K for himself. When times were good the main increase was material costs so if sales went to $135K, the clubmaker would make closer to $50K. A fair wage for him working 50 or more hours per week. 

Edited October 14, 2021 by JCAG

[phatcatkev]

On 10/12/2021 at 8:13 PM, Valtiel said:

You might think that, but why though? Pretty much all of these shafts are being made the same way, so the only difference comes down to materials used and manufacturing tolerances. When negotiating unit costs i'm sure the large order comes with a lot more negotiating power, but that is really it. I don't have any hard data or insider knowledge to back this up, but when places like TSG are having their own "in house" versions of shafts made that then try to push in fittings, it is because it benefits them financially to do so, otherwise why do it? Best case scenario they have actually have identified something that can be done better (dubious) and sought out a bespoke product just for them. More likely scenario, they're having a shaft from Graphite Design's lineup reproduced/slightly tweaked with cheaper materials (Graphite Design tends to use the "good" stuff for almost everything) so they have something they can push with better margins.

IMO there are FAR too many shafts out there to make the claim "we found something no one else does so we had it made just for us". 

You might be right - I think we are all just speculating based on what this shaft COULD be. 

I'll also add, I've never been pushed into this shaft in my few fittings with true spec. Looks like there was only one person above where it was pushed in a situation where it wasn't the best shaft. 

[LRick]

On 7/5/2021 at 2:45 PM, phizzy30 said:

BB and XC are both mid-low launch/low spin models.  Strange that the TSG would tout their made for shaft as high launch/low spin.  Only two shafts from GD that match that profile would be the DI and IZ. 

 

i was fit into the tsg ad hb in a tsi2 hybrid last week.  we tried a bunch of different shafts and heads, and that was the best fit for me by a pretty large margin.  the fitter told me it was higher launch and spin than the bb, but not as soft as the di.  i liked it enough that i think i'll pay the ridiculous cost and have them order it.

 

[mattyic]

True Spec sent me this chart for the Graphite Design's scale and characteristics. 

 

https://imgur.com/BytZjN4

 

 

[Thayneil]

On 10/12/2021 at 11:41 AM, Thayneil said:

Try 35$!

probably  YS6  shafts  with a 400 $ paint job!

 

I can buy the $380   Ventus for  180$  my dealer buys  them for  130 ish.Bigger dealers probably get another 10-20% off

 

I refuse to partake in this  gouging

[Thayneil]

On 5/27/2020 at 1:58 PM, Monkey76 said:

i Did not. I was told by the fitter that it is a high launch low spin shaft made for them by graphite design. I picked up an ad iz and seem to be getting the same result. Pretty sure either of the ad shafts would work if that was the shaft they fitted you for.

high launch low spin?

[Thayneil]

On 5/27/2020 at 1:58 PM, Monkey76 said:

i Did not. I was told by the fitter that it is a high launch low spin shaft made for them by graphite design. I picked up an ad iz and seem to be getting the same result. Pretty sure either of the ad shafts would work if that was the shaft they fitted you for.

high launch low spin?

[Thayneil]

On 5/27/2020 at 1:58 PM, Monkey76 said:

i Did not. I was told by the fitter that it is a high launch low spin shaft made for them by graphite design. I picked up an ad iz and seem to be getting the same result. Pretty sure either of the ad shafts would work if that was the shaft they fitted you for.

high launch low spin?

[gdb99]

7 hours ago, Thayneil said:

high launch low spin?

You are asking a question to a post from almost 3 years ago...

[Thayneil]

6 hours ago, gdb99 said:

You are asking a question to a post from almost 3 years ago...

still applies!

 

not possible is it?

[mattyic]

TSG Blue is Mid Launch Mid Spin

TGB Silver is Low Launch Low Spin.

[gdb99]

13 hours ago, Thayneil said:

still applies!

 

not possible is it?

I'm just saying a lot has happened in the last three years, no?

You ask a question three times.

Maybe the person you are asking isn't "here" anymore?

I just don't understand I guess.

Carry on...