SIM driver guys - talk about it

[phizzy30]

19 hours ago, philt90 said:

Decided going SiM Max 9 degree upright and 1 notch down.. putting it in a Speeder TR 661 X flex.. going to hot melt neutral 45 inches D3.5 swingweight.. 🥳

You will fall in love with the TR if you haven't already.  I was fitted with the 757x when I got fitted for my previous driver which was the TM M4.  I hit a lot of 300+yard bombs with it and numbers on trackman were excellent.  I switched to the SIM MAX recently and got fitted for the Ventus Black which which is my gamer atm.  I really wanted to go with the TR in my SIM MAX head, but I found that if there was head wind or I really went after it, it would balloon at times and I would lose a lot of distance.  Ventus Black gives me similar launch but spins 500 rpm less on average compared to the TR for me.  

[Red4282]

On 11/24/2020 at 7:03 AM, philt90 said:

What shafts are people playing in there SIMs, what are people finding is working 

The good ol motore fc 7.3  tour spec is amazing in it for me.

[Red4282]

SIM is a bad boy. Just blew out my ruckett net... oops.

[philt90]

SIM MAX has come going to do some testing of what setting I want before hot melting forward and neutral to drop spin.. hopefully this will stop the weak right id get with the SIM std and I can lay into the ball every time 🙂

[Valtiel]

Well i'm almost one full product cycle late to this party, but I finally had my first round with the SIM on Sunday and it is mighty impressive. I can not think of a better tool for the guy that wants to hit the low spin power cut off the tee. I also highly recommend the things i've been banging on about re: tweaks to the weights. Thank you to @J13 again for pointing out the merit of this previously. A 21g weight in the rear and a 4g weight in the front brought the head to 201g and I had it hotmelted to 207g with that 6g of hotmelt also being placed in the rear channel. 10.5* turned down to 9*, but I could probably go all the way to 8.5* with the weights set up like this.

The only thing left to experiment with is a setup that I can draw more easily since the open face angle + the fade bias of the head being further exaggerated by the weight setup + my X'17 shaft playing 44.25" = a supremely anti-left driver that is difficult to turn over. Baby draws feel alright on the range and I could sling one if I really tried, but that kind of looseness on the range rarely translates to the course, and the two draws I tried to hit went dead straight and curved about 5yds respectively. I could live with that for the rest of my golfing career though because anti-left never feels bad. 

Edited December 8, 2020 by Valtiel

[getitdaily]

2 hours ago, Valtiel said:

Well i'm almost one full product cycle late to this party, but I finally had my first round with the SIM on Sunday and it is mighty impressive. I can not think of a better tool for the guy that wants to hit the low spin power cut off the tee. I also highly recommend the things i've been banging on about re: tweaks to the weights. Thank you to @J13 again for pointing out the merit of this previously. A 21g weight in the rear and a 4g weight in the front brought the head to 201g and I had it hotmelted to 207g with that 6g of hotmelt also being placed in the rear channel. 10.5* turned down to 9*, but I could probably go all the way to 8.5* with the weights set up like this.

The only thing left to experiment with is a setup that I can draw more easily since the open face angle + the fade bias of the head being further exaggerated by the weight setup + my X'17 shaft playing 44.25" = a supremely anti-left driver that is difficult to turn over. Baby draws feel alright on the range and I could sling one if I really tried, but that kind of looseness on the range rarely translates to the course, and the two draws I tried to hit went dead straight and curved about 5yds respectively. I could live with that for the rest of my golfing career though because anti-left never feels bad. 

Welcome to the party. 

 

I agree wholeheartedly on the heavier backweight setup. I'm only 18g back and 10g front. But I chose to close the face on notch and put the front weight just a touch fade side. You're dead on about power fades. 

[Valtiel]

3 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

Welcome to the party. 

 

I agree wholeheartedly on the heavier backweight setup. I'm only 18g back and 10g front. But I chose to close the face on notch and put the front weight just a touch fade side. You're dead on about power fades. 

I'm thinking the key for me will be a different slightly longer shaft and a lighter back weight. I have an extra one of my trusty Rogue Black 70TX shafts that i'm going to build up to 44.75" and drop that back weight slightly, probably to 17g. When drivers get too light I start hooking them so I know I can use a little bit of weight reduction to help influence that movement, but I don't want to sacrifice too much stability from a shaft and head standpoint. I literally took this thing out blind with only a bucket of balls to warm up, and with that 21/4 weight setup and a 1.9* torque XX shaft it was hilariously stable and felt like I had to put a truly terrible swing on it to see any kind of ugly curvature. I don't want to lose too much of that because that is a weapon, but we'll see. 👍 

[getitdaily]

16 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

I'm thinking the key for me will be a different slightly longer shaft and a lighter back weight. I have an extra one of my trusty Rogue Black 70TX shafts that i'm going to build up to 44.75" and drop that back weight slightly, probably to 17g. When drivers get too light I start hooking them so I know I can use a little bit of weight reduction to help influence that movement, but I don't want to sacrifice too much stability from a shaft and head standpoint. I literally took this thing out blind with only a bucket of balls to warm up, and with that 21/4 weight setup and a 1.9* torque XX shaft it was hilariously stable and felt like I had to put a truly terrible swing on it to see any kind of ugly curvature. I don't want to lose too much of that because that is a weapon, but we'll see. 👍 

I tested the 21g and 19g before going to the 17g (18g with lead tape also added). You won't see a ton of difference. I didn't realize that my right miss was much more due to face to path than CoG until I had the 17g weight. I remember hitting the 21g and seeing everything go high and straight. Then a couple got away right and I thought it was because that 21g weight made the club too fade biased. 

 

I recently put a ventus blue in it and have been testing and it has gotten even better compared to my 125msi rogue. This driver will be in my bag for a long time.

[philt90]

SIM Max wasn't for me so going to the dark side G425 LST with Diamana BF TX 60 on the way 🙂

[Red4282]

4 hours ago, Valtiel said:

Well i'm almost one full product cycle late to this party, but I finally had my first round with the SIM on Sunday and it is mighty impressive. I can not think of a better tool for the guy that wants to hit the low spin power cut off the tee. I also highly recommend the things i've been banging on about re: tweaks to the weights. Thank you to @J13 again for pointing out the merit of this previously. A 21g weight in the rear and a 4g weight in the front brought the head to 201g and I had it hotmelted to 207g with that 6g of hotmelt also being placed in the rear channel. 10.5* turned down to 9*, but I could probably go all the way to 8.5* with the weights set up like this.

The only thing left to experiment with is a setup that I can draw more easily since the open face angle + the fade bias of the head being further exaggerated by the weight setup + my X'17 shaft playing 44.25" = a supremely anti-left driver that is difficult to turn over. Baby draws feel alright on the range and I could sling one if I really tried, but that kind of looseness on the range rarely translates to the course, and the two draws I tried to hit went dead straight and curved about 5yds respectively. I could live with that for the rest of my golfing career though because anti-left never feels bad. 

Awesome man, i was late to the party too but welcome 🎉better late than never! My results were similar to yours, and many others, although I didnt mess with weights too much. My head comes in at 196, but i play mine ar 45.25”. I may try to add a little bit to the back. As far as the draws go, it will come, i hit either baby fades or baby draws depending on the day. For the first time, i can hit that oh so elusive push draw and its rather addicting.

[getitdaily]

21 minutes ago, Red4282 said:

Awesome man, i was late to the party too but welcome 🎉better late than never! My results were similar to yours, and many others, although I didnt mess with weights too much. My head comes in at 196, but i play mine ar 45.25”. I may try to add a little bit to the back. As far as the draws go, it will come, i hit either baby fades or baby draws depending on the day. For the first time, i can hit that oh so elusive push draw and its rather addicting.

 

FullSizeRender.mov 12.79 MB · 1 download

I have a 15g backweight that you can have if you want it. That'll push 3g more weight back.

 

Only fits right hand sim...not sim.max

[Red4282]

6 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

I have a 15g backweight that you can have if you want it. That'll push 3g more weight back.

 

Only fits right hand sim...not sim.max

I thought the stock back weight  was 14g? I might take you up on that.

[getitdaily]

14 minutes ago, Red4282 said:

I thought the stock back weight  was 14g? I might take you up on that.

The stock sim backweight is 12g. Send me an IM with your address if you want it.

[Valtiel]

13 hours ago, Red4282 said:

Awesome man, i was late to the party too but welcome 🎉better late than never! My results were similar to yours, and many others, although I didnt mess with weights too much. My head comes in at 196, but i play mine ar 45.25”. I may try to add a little bit to the back. As far as the draws go, it will come, i hit either baby fades or baby draws depending on the day. For the first time, i can hit that oh so elusive push draw and its rather addicting.

 

FullSizeRender.mov 12.79 MB · 2 downloads

A thing of beauty, that! I can't decide whether I like the push draw or the power cut more from an aesthetics standpoint. The push draw always feels like the longer, more majestic ball, but there is something so satisfying about starting a cut on your line and peeling it away from a fairway bunker or around a corner. I was playing a more wide open, links style course on Sunday (Baylands Palo Alto) so it was just driver city and it was a blast with the SIM. The one thing that was really nice about the super anti-left setup though was feeling ok riding a draw on a right to left wind. I just felt like I knew I wasn't going to overturn it and I could send the baby draw up there more confidently. Definitely the most fun i've had off the tee in awhile. 

Edited December 9, 2020 by Valtiel

[getitdaily]

4 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

A thing of beauty, that! I can't decide whether I like the push draw or the power cut more from an aesthetics standpoint. The push draw always feels like the longer, more majestic ball, but there is something so satisfying about starting a cut on your line and peeling it away from a fairway bunker or around a corner. I was playing a more wide open, links style course on Sunday (Baylands Palo Alto) so it was just driver city and it was a blast with the SIM. The one thing that was really nice about the super anti-left setup though was feeling ok riding a draw on a right to left wind. I just felt like I knew I wasn't going to overturn it and I could send the baby draw up there more confidently. Definitely the most fun i've had off the tee in awhile. 

Want to marvel more...?

 

Next time you're on a tight par, say, 400 yards. Trouble on the right. 

 

Kick up a grass tee so the ball sits about an inch off the ground. Hit that sim like a 3wood...hit down, hard fade type swing. Watch it get about 30-40 feet off the ground, 10 yard cut, rollout to 270 yards. 

[Valtiel]

5 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

Want to marvel more...?

 

Next time you're on a tight par, say, 400 yards. Trouble on the right. 

 

Kick up a grass tee so the ball sits about an inch off the ground. Hit that sim like a 3wood...hit down, hard fade type swing. Watch it get about 30-40 feet off the ground, 10 yard cut, rollout to 270 yards. 

Hah! I was actually thinking about the driver off the deck possibilities after noticing how solid the ball felt coming off the face just bumping it around on the carpet in my office. It actually feels like you could make pretty solid contact off the deck or a little grass tee due to the low CG. Don't know that I would try that on the course though, but maybe for fun!

Edited December 9, 2020 by Valtiel

[getitdaily]

5 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

Hah! I was actually thinking about the driver off the deck possibilities after noticing how solid the ball felt coming off the face just bumping it around on the carpet in my office. It actually feels like you could make pretty solid contact off the deck or a little grass tee due to the low CG. Don't know that I would try that on the course though, but maybe for fun!

I play that shot at least once a round. This driver has almost obsoleted my 3wood off the tee. It's so easy to hit off the deck. 

[bbfifas]

Anyone point me in the right direction I want to try a SIM driver. I will most likely look the used route and test myself.  

 

Current gamer is the Mizuno ST190, 9* head but I drop it down to 7.5-8, Tensei White X flex 70 gram.  SS is 105-107.  I add some loft at impact and have + AoA hence the lower loft.  I Spin the ST190 too much but overall great club but I know I'm leaving some yards.  Lowering loft on head kills me as it opens the face too much for me and I fight the right weak fade.  

 

I hit my friends M6 9* (turned down a degree to around 8*) with stock stiff Orange Atmos 55 g consistently 10-15 yard further then mine on the course every time I try it using same ball.  Has a flatter flight and just goes dead straight with little curve.  I can't help to wonder if it is the lighter shaft (doubtful) or the m6 head just has better low spin.

 

Thoughts? recommendations on a SIM model? 

[getitdaily]

1 hour ago, bbfifas said:

Anyone point me in the right direction I want to try a SIM driver. I will most likely look the used route and test myself.  

 

Current gamer is the Mizuno ST190, 9* head but I drop it down to 7.5-8, Tensei White X flex 70 gram.  SS is 105-107.  I add some loft at impact and have + AoA hence the lower loft.  I Spin the ST190 too much but overall great club but I know I'm leaving some yards.  Lowering loft on head kills me as it opens the face too much for me and I fight the right weak fade.  

 

I hit my friends M6 9* (turned down a degree to around 8*) with stock stiff Orange Atmos 55 g consistently 10-15 yard further then mine on the course every time I try it using same ball.  Has a flatter flight and just goes dead straight with little curve.  I can't help to wonder if it is the lighter shaft (doubtful) or the m6 head just has better low spin.

 

Thoughts? recommendations on a SIM model? 

At your speed and what you noted for AoA and desire to not open the face...go SIM 9. Put your pro white in it and give it a go. 

[Valtiel]

9 hours ago, bbfifas said:

Anyone point me in the right direction I want to try a SIM driver. I will most likely look the used route and test myself.  

 

Current gamer is the Mizuno ST190, 9* head but I drop it down to 7.5-8, Tensei White X flex 70 gram.  SS is 105-107.  I add some loft at impact and have + AoA hence the lower loft.  I Spin the ST190 too much but overall great club but I know I'm leaving some yards.  Lowering loft on head kills me as it opens the face too much for me and I fight the right weak fade.  

 

I hit my friends M6 9* (turned down a degree to around 8*) with stock stiff Orange Atmos 55 g consistently 10-15 yard further then mine on the course every time I try it using same ball.  Has a flatter flight and just goes dead straight with little curve.  I can't help to wonder if it is the lighter shaft (doubtful) or the m6 head just has better low spin.

 

Thoughts? recommendations on a SIM model? 

Having come from the ST190 myself, here is what I perceive as the main differences and how they may impact you:

1) The ST190 (and maybe Mizunos in general?) seem to be higher lofted than labeled, I attribute the higher spin to this since there is nothing on paper that would otherwise make the ST190 a higher spinning driver. 
2) The ST190 is moderately draw biased, whereas the SIM is moderately fade biased, as is the M6. 
3) They sit on the ground completely differently. The ST190 appears more stretched in the back and low to the ground, sitting neutral/slightly heel side, whereas the SIM is less stretched looking and has a shape that is skewed more towards the toe side that also appears to sit higher off the ground. It is all personal preference, but I very much prefer the SIM in this regard. 
4) The ST190 is deeper faced, which will increase spin on average for people that have a tendency to strike lower in the head.

Overall, there is a good chance that your 9* ST190 is closer to 10+ degrees and the hotter, longer flight from the M6 is a product of the loft being more accurate, and possibly your delivery changing with the lighter, softer shaft. Lots of variables to narrow down here, but the most important aspect IMO is the fact that you aren't able to lower the loft on the ST190 in a way that works for you. That combined with the likely higher than printed loft is going to cap what you're going to be able to get out of it. 

[Red4282]

10 hours ago, bbfifas said:

Anyone point me in the right direction I want to try a SIM driver. I will most likely look the used route and test myself.  

 

Current gamer is the Mizuno ST190, 9* head but I drop it down to 7.5-8, Tensei White X flex 70 gram.  SS is 105-107.  I add some loft at impact and have + AoA hence the lower loft.  I Spin the ST190 too much but overall great club but I know I'm leaving some yards.  Lowering loft on head kills me as it opens the face too much for me and I fight the right weak fade.  

 

I hit my friends M6 9* (turned down a degree to around 8*) with stock stiff Orange Atmos 55 g consistently 10-15 yard further then mine on the course every time I try it using same ball.  Has a flatter flight and just goes dead straight with little curve.  I can't help to wonder if it is the lighter shaft (doubtful) or the m6 head just has better low spin.

 

Thoughts? recommendations on a SIM model? 

Couple of things- my opinions of course. If you fade the st190, you wont like the regular  SIM. I would probably go with the SIM “D”. That shaft is probaby a touch heavy and stiff for that swing speed *unless* you have a very fast hard transition. 

[evoviiiyou]

Still experimenting with my SIM Max D-type 12* turned down to 10*, 4 degree open, hot melted 5.5grams toe side (for swing weight and neutral flight off setting the stock draw weighting), 13gram Billy Bobs rear weight, and three shafts that need more testing to see its best for me all playing 44.5”

 

Speeder TR 661S

Atmos Blue Tour Spec Blue 6S

Oban Isawa 6-04 

 

TR was my gamer for all of 2020 with nice consistent results. Atmos Tour Spec Blue was an accident ordering it with my Speedzone driver to test with great results. So ordered the white finish, as it looks so nice with the SIM colorway head, and then the Oban is really responsive with adequate control. The next two weeks of range and 5 rounds booked will indicate the bag winner. I guess the journey is the fun part my friends tell me...

[bbfifas]

On 12/11/2020 at 7:56 PM, Valtiel said:

Having come from the ST190 myself, here is what I perceive as the main differences and how they may impact you:

1) The ST190 (and maybe Mizunos in general?) seem to be higher lofted than labeled, I attribute the higher spin to this since there is nothing on paper that would otherwise make the ST190 a higher spinning driver. 
2) The ST190 is moderately draw biased, whereas the SIM is moderately fade biased, as is the M6. 
3) They sit on the ground completely differently. The ST190 appears more stretched in the back and low to the ground, sitting neutral/slightly heel side, whereas the SIM is less stretched looking and has a shape that is skewed more towards the toe side that also appears to sit higher off the ground. It is all personal preference, but I very much prefer the SIM in this regard. 
4) The ST190 is deeper faced, which will increase spin on average for people that have a tendency to strike lower in the head.

Overall, there is a good chance that your 9* ST190 is closer to 10+ degrees and the hotter, longer flight from the M6 is a product of the loft being more accurate, and possibly your delivery changing with the lighter, softer shaft. Lots of variables to narrow down here, but the most important aspect IMO is the fact that you aren't able to lower the loft on the ST190 in a way that works for you. That combined with the likely higher than printed loft is going to cap what you're going to be able to get out of it. 

Great comparison. 

1.)  Yes I hear this from others as well and I could see that being true

2.) On the st190 the upright setting is draw heavy for sure.  Howe about the SIM with weight in the heel?  

3.) The ST190 is a nice looking driver but stretched is a good word, I do prefer the TM driver look as of late.  

4.) Nailed it for me, I hit low on face too often

[PJF7789]

Did anyone else feel like they were hitting a rock? Felt super hard, even when flushed center of the face IMO. 

[phizzy30]

4 hours ago, PJF7789 said:

Did anyone else feel like they were hitting a rock? Felt super hard, even when flushed center of the face IMO. 

The SIM has more of a thud sound and feel.  Almost like persimmon.  I like it. 

[Valtiel]

6 hours ago, bbfifas said:

Great comparison. 

1.)  Yes I hear this from others as well and I could see that being true

2.) On the st190 the upright setting is draw heavy for sure.  Howe about the SIM with weight in the heel?  

3.) The ST190 is a nice looking driver but stretched is a good word, I do prefer the TM driver look as of late.  

4.) Nailed it for me, I hit low on face too often

The SIM with the front weight all the way in heal basically makes it neutral in terms of bias and raises CG slightly. 👍

[Red4282]

5 hours ago, Valtiel said:

The SIM with the front weight all the way in heal basically makes it neutral in terms of bias and raises CG slightly. 👍

Interesting because on the leaked pictures of the sim 2, the front weight is in this position , so im guessing it will be very neutral 

[GolfTurkey]

On 12/9/2020 at 2:09 PM, getitdaily said:

I play that shot at least once a round. This driver has almost obsoleted my 3wood off the tee. It's so easy to hit off the deck. 

 

I'm always worried about the resale value when I find the next shiny toy

[Valtiel]

5 hours ago, Red4282 said:

Interesting because on the leaked pictures of the sim 2, the front weight is in this position , so im guessing it will be very neutral 

Agreed, although with all the weight being moved around (carbon sole, aluminum back, heavier rear weight) we can only guess really. It is interesting though that the SIM Max 2 does have that weight even further in the heel, which does at least suggest that if the SIM 2 is fade biased that the Max 2 will likely be neutral, just like the original line, and if the SIM 2 is neutral then the MAX 2 may be a touch on the draw side. We'll see!

[Golly]

On 12/15/2020 at 12:37 AM, Valtiel said:

The SIM with the front weight all the way in heal basically makes it neutral in terms of bias and raises CG slightly. 👍

Nice to know and will give this a go.😉