Can't quit you - full wedge shot

[Justsomeguy]

Opening stipulations:

1. Hitting full wedges is the craziest, dumbest idea ever.

2. It is far superior etc to hit any other shots into greens etc.

That said - what happens mechanically when you hit full wedges? Why do they pop up so so high?

Why is it harder to close the face?

What makes it different from hitting a full shot with a bigger club?

[scooterhd2]

Mechanically it wouldnt be that much different than a 9 iron.

Shot height correlates with club head speed and loft. Full swing is faster speed which is more height.

Is it hard to close the face? You can hit a draw with a full swing wedge. I'd say people are more weary of delofting the club and presenting less bounce and digging into turf before striking the ball. So they present more of an open face as a safeguard.

[Zitlow]

Make your adjustments at set-up and not during the swing. Do you move the ball back in your stance as the clubs get shorter? If you do then your left hand grip should be progressively stronger as the clubs get progressively shorter. Driver played off left instep = neutral left hand. Wedge played off the center = strong left hand. Right hand square and should match the club face.

[COACH9]

The more lofted the wedge the bigger the disparity in distance when you deloft or add loft to it.

[Krt22]

This doesnt sound like an issue with hitting a full wedge, it sounds like you are already adding loft at impact which results in moon balls with full wedges

[b.mattay]

Full wedges are not a bad idea. If they are rolling up the face and launching too high, impact conditions are not good. Swinging to parallel or beyond with a wedge is generally bad. A shorter swing where arms match up with the body and is followed by an aggressive downswing is great.

[Golfjack]

I agree on this take. If you want to hit a full wedge shot effectively, you need to deloft it, and casting etc doesn't work with that. Also the wedges are heavier clubs even though they are shorter, and just not designed for full swings. I like my wedges, but unless it's a very specific distance that I know I can hit on the money with a full wedge shot, I tend to stay away since it's also easier to miss the sweet spot when you are swinging all out. You can also get a ton of spin, so not only are you having to carry it all the way, you'll have to account for it zipping back more as well.

[gsrjc]

When I do a full wedge shot. I make sure not to move my right hip back like I do on normal swings. It’s almost like I’m swinging with only arms but I know that isn’t the case. It just feels that way. I believe I don’t make a full turn on my backswing and I’ve never had issues. I do make sure to play the ball in the middle of my stance. I have trouble with using less lofted irons and perhaps half swings. I’m much better with full swings and adjusting my distance based upon gripping the club. So if I want to cut off perhaps 5 yards, I’ll choke down maybe 1 inch. If I need to take off more distance I’ll choke down 2 inches etc.

[Justsomeguy]

Sometimes launch is good and I hit my 56* 80-90ish. Sometimes it pops up and goes 40. It's the only club in the bag that has such variability, so when I play for a score, I use my pitch / chip never past parallel preset closed face approach.

What I'm trying to figure out is the why as it relates to the high lofts. Coach9 made an interesting point about that variability.

You see pros hit a perfect full wedge that goes x distance and it's amazing. Ams seem better off sticking to cobbling it together with multiple clubs etc.

Nothing wrong with it, see the initial post stipulations, but why is good launch hard to do with a full wedge, but comparatively cake with a 9 iron?

[COACH9]

I think theoretically if you were operating in a vacuum, the most forgiving loft as far as disparity to adding or reducing loft would be at 45*. With the resistance to the air, I'm not sure where that number would be. I assume it would be somewhat lower. I've never seen a study or breakdown of that topic, but I'd like to.

[glk]

Agree with krt22. adding loft. taking that 56 and hitting it with dynamic loft of say 52* (4* of shaft lean and square face/sweet spot - gonna be more if open) or more - then factor in quality of contact and off you go - 9i pretty much are 39-40 degree lofted clubs. No surprise that folks launch wedges high and when they tried to swing faster the ball just goes even higher and not much further. been there, done that.

It is your swing not some factor in a 56 that make it so variable and high. A good swing will take that 56 and hit it on or near the sweet spot have about 16* of lean - making dynamic loft 40 - effectively same as 9i static loft. And pro's are launching their 9i around 20*.

lie conditions affect this too. quality of ball and club (friction). not that we must aspire to be like the pros but those folks consistently launch their wedges around 30* (more complicated than just dynamic loft, aoa, friction, ball, smash factor, . . . ridyard has an hour long youtube presentation about this).

As Monte says, improve your swing, improve your numbers.

 

[SNIPERBBB]

I think the biggest thing in full wedge shots is the weight of the heads, at least in non set wedges. The weight of the head makes it harder to control the head of club at full speed. I like to feel like I'm trying to hold off the face

[jdubba]

A “full” wedge shot in my opinion should be a 80-90 percent wedge shot. Watch montes video with athletic motion golf titled wedge it close. It makes a lot of sense! No reason to hit a lob wedge 110 yards lol

[swh0507]

My 80% lob wedge goes 90 yards.

My 100% lob wedge goes 60 yards.

what I feel is a "full" or 100% wedge is in actuality a bad overswing.

[Obee]

Your premise is fatally flawed.

"Full" wedge shots are hit frequently by a large percentage of expert players.

Assuming 172 "full" 7i carry (~Tour Average) and 12 yard gaps (~Tour average), you get the following carry yardages for the "average" Tour Pro (of course players can squeeze extra yardage out of each iron by de-lofting and/or hitting rope-draws, but let's forget that for the moment) :

8i 160

9i 148

PW 136

GW 124

SW 110

LW 95 (usually a gap here from the 54, 55, or 56 SW to the LW)

Distances above vary greatly from player to player due to set makeups and clubhead speed, but the above is a reasonable estimate. the gaps get larger as we move into the more lofted clubs, but not necessarily because they are swing less than full. if you are playing your 9-iron at 40 degrees of loft, then 4-degree increments would be:

9i 40

PW: 44

GW: 48

SW: 52

LW 56

Well we know that's NOT the case, so how about:

9i 42

PW: 46

GW: 50

SW: 54

LW: 60

Okay, that's more like it. But that's still a 6-degree gap from SW to LW, which will result in a larger distance gap than with other clubs. I just point this out to get people to see that there's virtually NEVER a linear regression of distances, since there's virtually never a linear regression of lofts.

So now, if you believe that "full wedges" are never hit, you have to do all kinds of mental gymnastics every time you see a tour pro pull a 55-degree SW from 107 to 112 in "normal" conditions, which they do ALL THE TIME (depending on the player).

Bottom line: "Full" wedges ARE frequently hit by the best players in the world. They also hit less than full wedges plenty often. It's very much pin placement and yardage and condition and lie and wind dependent.

BottomBottom line: Pros frequently hit their wedges as "hard" or "full" as they hit their 7-irons or 9-irons. Now that may only be 88% or 93% or whatever you want to call a pro's "stock," "full" swing with an iron, but they don't go from hitting "full" 7-irons to ONLY hitting bunty, half-swing, sawed-off, less-than-full wedges. That's just not a "thing" out there with the best players in the world.

[Justsomeguy]

Not news that the swing could improve, like 99pct of the people here.

The query is if there's anything fundamentally different about the full wedge swing.

[Justsomeguy]

Right? Why is it so easy to overseeing a wedge?

[Justsomeguy]

Excellent numbers. Mine are obviously not close to that pretty.

Why is a full sand wedge harder for an amateur to hit than a full 9 iron?

Pretty straightforward question I don't know the answer to.

Mine is 56* btw.

[Justsomeguy]

Also Obee - I meant the intro stipulations facetiously. Was doing my best to ward off the "full wedges are crazy!" comments that didn't address the idea. It did of course draw the unsolicited but always correct "improve your swing" replies, but hey, lots of better people than me can't resist that so.

I'd really love to be able to hit my 56 full (whatever that means) as well as my 9 iron. There's just a lot more variability and for some reason a higher number of mishits.

When I'm close to the green I don't want to risk it so I usually pull a longer club and swing softer, but I'd like to be able to do either, especially for extra height.

[ThinkingPlus]

Here is my take on wedge strike sensitivity on full swings.

1) Higher lofted wedges (leave PW out since it has morphed to just a short iron really) have heavier heads and typically higher swingweights making it harder during a full swing to deliver consistent dynamic loft to the ball. Basically the heavier weight and torque puts added pressure on your release and folks that don't compensate will tend toward flipping more easily than a 9-iron (less heavy head and less swingweight typically).

2) The higher lofted wedges tend to generate the most spin exacerbating higher launch caused by 1). More speed = more spin = higher launch = same or less distance unless you de-loft a bit to manage the flight (see 1 again for that challenge).

3) Many folks play blade style higher lofted wedges so that they get the short game configuration that fits there playing conditions and swing type. However, slight mishits on full shots get punished much more than that CB 9-iron.

Just my 2 cents.

[Justsomeguy]

That's pretty brilliant.

[Boricua Golf]

I've been hitting "full" wedge shots for as long as I can remember, I mean "full" as 80-90% swing, I carry 4 wedges, PW-135-145, GW-125-135, SW-115-125 and LW-95-110 (depending of ball position, flight requirements, spin, etc)

[golfho50]

I know this i GolfWRX but not a lot of guys hitting lob wedge 110 unless your last name is Berkshire or your lob wedge is 56-58 degrees.

[golfho50]

 

Spot on.

[Justsomeguy]

I didn't wanna say it. Only time I've ever hit a LW 110 is when I've bladed the shit out of it.

[cardoustie]

Man I used to only hit wedges with full swings, just choked down

There is a beauty to a downwind wedge with a RIP swing from a slight flier lie in the first cut ...

Nowadays, shots are almost always partial and heavily feature punched flighting

[jdubba]

hyperbole...

[COACH9]

With my wedge game I need to focus on what I should do with them instead of what I can do with them. I find my consistency is much better taking more club and hitting 3/4 shots out to 150 yards. Have even considered extending it out past there. Not sure where diminishing returns might set in.

[Krt22]

We said. In addition to this, pros/elite players deoft their wedges more than any other club. If an amateur is adding loft, when you get to the higher lofted clubs they very well may be presenting more than 45* of dynamic loft. In these cases trying to add speed becomes counter productive as the ball just will go higher.

[COACH9]

I remember when Tiger first came up he used to Nuke the crap out of his wedges. He became the player we know now when he dialed it way back and controled spin and trajectory.