Searching for Driver: low spin, low launch

[RoyalMustang]

Hi all,

 

I posted in another thread about irons, but I am in need of a driver as well.  Numbers are below (not my best swing for sure: I have carried 280 with different drivers).  I am getting back into the sport after taking a couple of decades off (work/family/kids).  

 

Here was a swing on the driver today (9.5 Mizuno ST200, Atmos 5S shaft).  It was terrible. I was there to primarily hit irons (my other post) which went better: I was getting 122-126mph  ball speed on the Mizuno MMC 7-iron with DG120 100X shaft consistently and good spin (5000-5600).  As you can see here though, my driver is only marginally better. Even the guy running the booth commented that I was hitting the cover off the 7-irons but not going much further with the driver.  He said he really couldn't help me and that I needed a more specific driver fitting, given my high launch, spin, and swing speed.  

 

I could get fitted and spend big $ for a driver, but I would rather go the used route here. Can you suggest some shafts that may work?  Based on the DG 120 100X fitting me so well today, I should be looking at an extra-stiff, right?  For reference, I hit my old-school clubs 135-PW/150 9-iron/165 8-iron/175- 7-iron).  The Mizuno MMC was a little more juiced but not bad. 

 

Thoughts on shafts?  The spin and launch are crazy high according to the fitting person. He said he would like to see me well under 2500 spin with that launch.  The driver was 9.5. 

 

Driver Ball (crap, I know!)

 

 

 

7-iron (average for the test, best was 129mph off a JPX 921)

 

 

 

 

 

[setter02]

Not much ball speed with high launch and spin.  Fix the swing, don't buy an over priced crutch.  And find a real fitter, not a box store kid.

[nickpiro]

Hey! 

 

Overall with the time off you mentioned, those numbers really don't look bad at all, they look great, don't be too hard on yourself : ) 

 

Driver wise, I was in a very similar boat - I fought spin like mad. After some trail and error I found the holy grail for me, the PING G410 LST 9*. The lower loft could help with your launch as well and maybe squeeze some additional distance with a slightly lower launch. Combine that with a little lower spin and you will be dropped hammers out there.  

 

The G410 LST has knocked spin down substantially, got me feeling confident again with driver and it is super forgiving. 

 

Shaft wise I would say you could go into an X or firmer stiff. Depends on how you load it, but you are right on the cusp of X and stiff. I have similar ball speed with driver and I am in a stiff trimmed down to a 45" playing length which stiffens it up a fraction. I found that flex to be ideal for me as it makes me feel like I don't have to crush it to load an x and swing out of my shoes. 

 

Hope that helps brother! 

-Nick 

 

 

[RoyalMustang]

11 minutes ago, gwelfgulfer said:

Not much ball speed with high launch and spin.  Fix the swing, don't buy an over priced crutch.  And find a real fitter, not a box store kid.

 

I actually had a lesson and the coach was very complimentary of my swing. The issue is that I have a very upright swing and steep angle at the ball; great for irons, not so hot for woods.  

 

I concur with you on the fitter though.  

[RoyalMustang]

16 minutes ago, nickpiro said:

Hey! 

 

Overall with the time off you mentioned, those numbers really don't look bad at all, they look great, don't be too hard on yourself : ) 

 

Driver wise, I was in a very similar boat - I fought spin like mad. After some trail and error I found the holy grail for me, the PING G410 LST 9*. The lower loft could help with your launch as well and maybe squeeze some additional distance with a slightly lower launch. Combine that with a little lower spin and you will be dropped hammers out there.  

 

The G410 LST has knocked spin down substantially, got me feeling confident again with driver and it is super forgiving. 

 

Shaft wise I would say you could go into an X or firmer stiff. Depends on how you load it, but you are right on the cusp of X and stiff. I have similar ball speed with driver and I am in a stiff trimmed down to a 45" playing length which stiffens it up a fraction. I found that flex to be ideal for me as it makes me feel like I don't have to crush it to load an x and swing out of my shoes. 

 

Hope that helps brother! 

-Nick 

 

 

 

yes, definitely! Thanks so much!  I can hit my irons very well (and consistently): my greens in regulation have been trending around 70% or better.  Driver is another story and I have been teeing off with a hybrid of 4-iron.  It may be partial user error but this is a really bad fit

Edited September 3, 2020 by RoyalMustang

[SurfDaddy]

Easy answer if you’re looking for a bargain on a very low spin driver. The Cobra LTD Pro is legendary. You’ll find plenty of posts here on its performance. Launch will depend on the shaft. The stock Rogue Shaft is low launch.

[Red4282]

Did get club head speed reading? This 7 iron speeds are similar to mine, and im  mid 160s with driver. You most likely are adding loft/flipping and causing a really poor smash factor.

[RoyalMustang]

3 hours ago, Red4282 said:

Did get club head speed reading? This 7 iron speeds are similar to mine, and im  mid 160s with driver. You most likely are adding loft/flipping and causing a really poor smash factor.

 

I didn't-is that due to loose hands or poor angle of attack?  I figured the smash factor was way down from what it should have been and whatever I am doing is amplified on a driver. It doesn't really affect iron distance but does add a bit of height that isn't needed. 

[RoyalMustang]

6 hours ago, SurfDaddy said:

Easy answer if you’re looking for a bargain on a very low spin driver. The Cobra LTD Pro is legendary. You’ll find plenty of posts here on its performance. Launch will depend on the shaft. The stock Rogue Shaft is low launch.

 

Thanks!

[Rosco1216]

An atmos 5S shaft is basically a pool noodle for someone who can easily handle a 120x iron shaft.

[Red4282]

1 minute ago, Dawgdude said:

 

I didn't-is that due to loose hands or poor angle of attack?  I figured the smash factor was way down from what it should have been and whatever I am doing is amplified on a driver. It doesn't really affect iron distance but does add a bit of height that isn't needed. 

Spin loft. Its loft delivered at impact minus angle of attack. So if you have a 9 degree driver for example, and you add 5 degrees of loft (flipping hands/losing shaft lean) then that would equal 14 degrees of dynamic loft. If angle of attack is say 3 down (-3)... this would equal a spin loft of 17 (14-(-3)). The lower the spin loft, the higher potential smash factor. Most really efficient strikers have a spin loft of about 10 ish with a driver. Long story short, shaft lean combined with maintaining shallow angle of attack. Just something you might check. Can let you know if its swing related issue or equipment Issue.

[MUNIGRIT]

Taylor made SLDR for a cheaper option.

[Flip4000]

Its strange, I have similar numbers to you with a 7 iron. However my driver ball speed is in the high 160s to low 170s.

 

 

Where are you hitting the ball on the face? It's crazy to me that your ball speed is down so low given I spin my Sim driver similarly but I see about 280-290 carry.

[JMT8345]

Try Srixon 785.  You can find a new one with a handcrafted hazardous shaft on the cheap.  

[RoyalMustang]

1 hour ago, Flip4000 said:

Its strange, I have similar numbers to you with a 7 iron. However my driver ball speed is in the high 160s to low 170s.

 

 

Where are you hitting the ball on the face? It's crazy to me that your ball speed is down so low given I spin my Sim driver similarly but I see about 280-290 carry.

 

I haven't played with tape yet on the driver, so I don't know. That is my next step.  I agree though: I can carry 225 with that Mizuno 4-iron when hit decently which is most of the time.  There is no reason the driver should be only 20 yards + carry; It may be a mis-strike due to weirdness in my swing due to longer shaft or different club track. Could be too much loft, too soft of shaft, letting go of club lag too early....

 

It is weird as I was hitting a Mizuno MP18 Hi-fli recently on the range (a friend's club, 2-iron 16 degree) and was carrying 250+ with that thing when struck well.  I had more luck with it than the driver.  It has a PX 6.0 shaft though.

 

Also, on my lesson last week, we didn't hit the driver: I was working on backswing/shoulder turn/club lag. The coach did say though that I should be a consistent 280 carry on the driver once I get the skills dialed.

Edited September 3, 2020 by RoyalMustang

[RoyalMustang]

2 hours ago, Red4282 said:

Spin loft. Its loft delivered at impact minus angle of attack. So if you have a 9 degree driver for example, and you add 5 degrees of loft (flipping hands/losing shaft lean) then that would equal 14 degrees of dynamic loft. If angle of attack is say 3 down (-3)... this would equal a spin loft of 17 (14-(-3)). The lower the spin loft, the higher potential smash factor. Most really efficient strikers have a spin loft of about 10 ish with a driver. Long story short, shaft lean combined with maintaining shallow angle of attack. Just something you might check. Can let you know if its swing related issue or equipment Issue.

Thanks! It may be possible that I am losing my club lag. I had no idea what lag was until last week.  Perhaps I am not keeping my left hand strong enough through the hitting zone and keeping the lag present?  Is that how it works; ideally, I want to keep the club well behind the hands, right?  When I am patient and get the hips working well, the ball strikes better but goes sky-high also.  

 

I need to get some video of the swing.  

[RoyalMustang]

2 hours ago, Rosco1216 said:

An atmos 5S shaft is basically a pool noodle for someone who can easily handle a 120x iron shaft.

 

Good to know: the fitter thought it was stiff and should be adequate initially but didn't have shafts on hand, only iron shafts. 

 

I found some used drivers to try: start at X-stiff and look at something like a Smoke X 60 or 70?   I didn't know I would be in a X shaft until yesterday: he started me at soft stiff based on my time off, but put me in stiff (still too soft) and then the 100X was absolutely perfect.  Tight and controlled.    My swing is pretty deliberate: I am trying to make the quickest part of the swing before impact.  I bought one of those orange whips to help me with my backswing timing.  

[Tasals]

11 hours ago, Dawgdude said:

 

I actually had a lesson and the coach was very complimentary of my swing. The issue is that I have a very upright swing and steep angle at the ball; great for irons, not so hot for woods.  

 

I concur with you on the fitter though.  

 

So youre hitting down on the driver? Youre never going to kill spin as much as you want with just a driver set up. You will be fighting to balance launch and spin, Sergio is a prime example of this, hes way down on the driver and plays it with 12+ degrees of loft and a massively heavy shaft. You will probably want to look at the SubZero/SIM/ other low spin head with a heavy shaft in it, a Hzrdus Black 75/65g is a low launch spin killer. Probably also want to put the TP5x, or the AVX ball also if you want to bring spin down further you can drop a few hundred spin with that change as well.

 

Biggest way to optimize your driver is to probably take a lesson and get you a neutral to positive angle of attack, youd probably see 20+ yards of carry just doing that.

Edited September 3, 2020 by Tasals

[LeoLeo99]

If you can carry driver 280 and hit 70% of greens in regulation, you should get with a good coach and get your driver swing sorted before you buy a new one.  Unless this is the swing you're going to go forward with.  

[Exactice808]

Random poster here. Not going to address the new driver issues but the numbers posted issue.

 

 

Driver - 

149mph Ball speed

17.3 Launch

3320 back spin

 

PGA Tour average 

167 mph BS

10.9 LA

2686 spin

 

 

7iron

 

122mph BS

21.1 LA

5748 spin

 

 

PGA

120mph BS

16.3 LA

7097 spin

 

 

 

OK With the Driver, 

1)You lack ball speed-  You have an abnormally high 7iron ball speed, with an abnormally low driver swing speed

2) Driver launch angle is VERY high,  with the corrolated 7iron to Driver, you should be getting 170mph Ballspeeds,  and a Launch angle no more than 14*

3) High Spin -  Indication of spin loft,  So Attack angle and Dynamic loft at impact.  I have a feeling you are "Flipping" with the driver.  Lots of loft at impact with a steeper attack angle.

 

 

Your 7iron, though is the one that is confusing me a little 

1) Amazing ball speed

2) VERY high launch angle

3) Quite low Spin,  spin usually matches the club, so a  7iron should have about 7,000rpms,  8iron 8,000rpms. 

 

There seems to be a balance though your really high launch angle helps with decent angle and lack of spin to stop the ball but I assume you deal with wind issues?

OK moving on.

 

1) Shaft make up in the Mizunos?  You have X100, which are low launch and low spin.  The X100 might help to kill spin, but since you might be a flipper that is where your Launch angles are coming from.  

 

2) What shaft was in the driver?  X100 are 130gram stiff poles,  If you are using a 60gram X stiff shaft, you may need to consider heavier shaft for your swing profile. 

 

3) I assume you have a potential of about a 110-115mph driver swing speed (matching with your 7iron ballspeeds)   So if you have 113mph driver x 1.5 = 170mph ball speeds,  But right now I doubt you have 150mph / 113 = 1.32smash,  unless you are hitting it Horribly.  At the moment I assume you have 107mph x 1.4 at worst  = 150mph ballspeeds,   With 107 x 1.5 = 160mph ballspeeds you SHOULD be able to easily obtain if you can get the driver face square to the ball.

 

 

 

Long Story Short

 

1) I think you are flipping at the ball

2) I think you might need to get your SHAFT sorted out to match your swing profile,  cant get the head to ball if your shaft isnt matching your swing tendencies.

3) Need an instructor to work out your dynamic loft/spin loft, a possible flip as mention and a huge power leak at the top as 150mph ball speed does NOT match 122mph 7 iron ballspeeds.

 

*Edit* Sorry!  I didnt read right,

 

 

 

 

Thanks! 

 

Edited September 3, 2020 by Exactice808

[Exactice808]

*Edit* Didnt Read correctly.

 

9.5 Mizuo ST200 Atmos  5S Shaft

 

I personally think that is your problem RIGHT THERE

 

The 5S shaft is a 5.0 torque shaft in 55grams.  I am assuming based on your swing speed,  tempo and transition you overpowering that shaft.

 

 

Something drastic if available is to find a beefy shaft (not necessarily flex)

 

1) Try something heaving in the 70+gram weight  heck just because try a 80gram shaft

2) Find a shaft with less torque in the 3.5 range or less

 

 

Work you way through flex,  but I bet you can get the club in control with a heavier profile shaft, while working out the Flip I think you have in your swing.

 

 

GL OP!

 

 

 

 

[Flip4000]

3 hours ago, Dawgdude said:

 

I haven't played with tape yet on the driver, so I don't know. That is my next step.  I agree though: I can carry 225 with that Mizuno 4-iron when hit decently which is most of the time.  There is no reason the driver should be only 20 yards + carry; It may be a mis-strike due to weirdness in my swing due to longer shaft or different club track. Could be too much loft, too soft of shaft, letting go of club lag too early....

 

It is weird as I was hitting a Mizuno MP18 Hi-fli recently on the range (a friend's club, 2-iron 16 degree) and was carrying 250+ with that thing when struck well.  I had more luck with it than the driver.  It has a PX 6.0 shaft though.

 

Also, on my lesson last week, we didn't hit the driver: I was working on backswing/shoulder turn/club lag. The coach did say though that I should be a consistent 280 carry on the driver once I get the skills dialed.

As others have said, I would be jumping on a new shaft relatively quickly. What you got is way to soft and probably causing you a ton of issues. I am not a fitter but something heavier maybe 70g and something probably X flex would be something I would try. It's going to feel like a rebar compared to your current shaft, but I think it will work out much better.

Edited September 3, 2020 by Flip4000

[RoyalMustang]

54 minutes ago, LeoLeo99 said:

If you can carry driver 280 and hit 70% of greens in regulation, you should get with a good coach and get your driver swing sorted before you buy a new one.  Unless this is the swing you're going to go forward with.  

 

Good call!  I am working with a coach: it has been irons only so far as we are dialing in club lag and reducing occasional error in my swing. We will get out the Trackman for the next range session

[RoyalMustang]

36 minutes ago, Exactice808 said:

Random poster here. Not going to address the new driver issues but the numbers posted issue.

 

 

Driver - 

149mph Ball speed

17.3 Launch

3320 back spin

 

PGA Tour average 

167 mph BS

10.9 LA

2686 spin

 

 

7iron

 

122mph BS

21.1 LA

5748 spin

 

 

PGA

120mph BS

16.3 LA

7097 spin

 

 

 

OK With the Driver, 

1)You lack ball speed-  You have an abnormally high 7iron ball speed, with an abnormally low driver swing speed

2) Driver launch angle is VERY high,  with the corrolated 7iron to Driver, you should be getting 170mph Ballspeeds,  and a Launch angle no more than 14*

3) High Spin -  Indication of spin loft,  So Attack angle and Dynamic loft at impact.  I have a feeling you are "Flipping" with the driver.  Lots of loft at impact with a steeper attack angle.

 

 

Your 7iron, though is the one that is confusing me a little 

1) Amazing ball speed

2) VERY high launch angle

3) Quite low Spin,  spin usually matches the club, so a  7iron should have about 7,000rpms,  8iron 8,000rpms. 

 

There seems to be a balance though your really high launch angle helps with decent angle and lack of spin to stop the ball but I assume you deal with wind issues?

OK moving on.

 

1) Shaft make up in the Mizunos?  You have X100, which are low launch and low spin.  The X100 might help to kill spin, but since you might be a flipper that is where your Launch angles are coming from.  

 

2) What shaft was in the driver?  X100 are 130gram stiff poles,  If you are using a 60gram X stiff shaft, you may need to consider heavier shaft for your swing profile. 

 

3) I assume you have a potential of about a 110-115mph driver swing speed (matching with your 7iron ballspeeds)   So if you have 113mph driver x 1.5 = 170mph ball speeds,  But right now I doubt you have 150mph / 113 = 1.32smash,  unless you are hitting it Horribly.  At the moment I assume you have 107mph x 1.4 at worst  = 150mph ballspeeds,   With 107 x 1.5 = 160mph ballspeeds you SHOULD be able to easily obtain if you can get the driver face square to the ball.

 

 

 

Long Story Short

 

1) I think you are flipping at the ball

2) I think you might need to get your SHAFT sorted out to match your swing profile,  cant get the head to ball if your shaft isnt matching your swing tendencies.

3) Need an instructor to work out your dynamic loft/spin loft, a possible flip as mention and a huge power leak at the top as 150mph ball speed does NOT match 122mph 7 iron ballspeeds.

 

*Edit* Sorry!  I didnt read right,

 

 

 

 

Thanks! 

 

 

Great! Lots of useful info here.  Yeah, my spin rates do seem a little low for the iron; I noticed that too (although carpet does reduce spin).  Ball speeds and iron distances are strong: I may need to learn how to prevent a steep AOA on the driver (work with a coach) but I didn't realize that club was so soft. I saw 5S and figured it was a stiff lightweight shaft.  At the range last week (trying a few different clubs recently) I hit a Titleist 818 H2 3iron with a 7S black and it was 240-255 for me (total, not carry) , almost as good as a 3-wood. Now that I think about it, I had about the same launch angle on that club that I had on the Mizuno driver.  Much straighter as well; the shaft could be playing a big role here.

Edited September 3, 2020 by RoyalMustang

[RoyalMustang]

21 minutes ago, Flip4000 said:

As others have said, I would be jumping on a new shaft relatively quickly. What you got is way to soft and probably causing you a ton of issues. I am not a fitter but something heavier maybe 70g and something probably X flex would be something I would try. It's going to feel like a rebar compared to your current shaft, but I think it will work out much better.

 

What does weight have on the shaft performance?  Is it just lighter/heaver for preference, or do the shafts differ in stiffness for an X 60g vs 70g? 20g doesn't seem like much but I suppose it is 5-8% of a club's total weight. 

[Exactice808]

22 hours ago, Dawgdude said:

 

Great! Lots of useful info here.  Yeah, my spin rates do seem a little low for the iron; I noticed that too (although carpet does reduce spin).  Ball speeds and iron distances are strong: I may need to learn how to prevent a steep AOA on the driver (work with a coach) but I didn't realize that club was so soft. I saw 5S and figured it was a stiff lightweight shaft.  At the range last week (trying a few different clubs recently) I hit a Titleist 818 H2 3iron with a 7S black and it was 240-255 for me (total, not carry) , almost as good as a 3-wood. Now that I think about it, I had about the same launch angle on that club that I had on the Mizuno driver.  Much straighter as well; the shaft could be playing a big role here.

 

 

ON my follow up post, and I have posted this much I am a proponent of pairing the SHAFT to the players swing profile.

 

Generic Rules of thumbs (of course there are anomalies)

 

1) Tempo,  Fast, medium, Slow,   Faster the swing heavier the Overall weight of the Shaft

2) Transition, Hard, Medium, Deliberate - Harder the transition (loading of the shaft) Stiffer the shaft

3) Spec,  Length of shaft,  We are moving closer 46" yet tour players are still 44-45.  You might have better contact at 45" who knows though

 

 

Again per my second post, I say find you a 70gram shaft or even if you can find an 80gram shaft to TRY.  (Also when I say 70gr or 80gr thats relative to flex)  So a 70gr S flex might be 75grams and a 70gr X flex might actually be 78grams.  Same to an 80gram but I think you would get better consistency with a 70+gram shaft from the 55gram you got now!

 

GL OP!

Edited September 4, 2020 by Exactice808

[KC13]

The key is finding the right head/shaft combo for YOU.  I would suggest a fitting OR go to your local golf store and hit various head shaft combos off the rack/used bin.  

 

Fitting is ideal.  Might be more expensive upfront, but trial and error is more expensive long term.  

 

- KC 

[BCULAW]

On 9/2/2020 at 11:32 PM, nickpiro said:

Hey! 

 

Overall with the time off you mentioned, those numbers really don't look bad at all, they look great, don't be too hard on yourself : ) 

 

Driver wise, I was in a very similar boat - I fought spin like mad. After some trail and error I found the holy grail for me, the PING G410 LST 9*. The lower loft could help with your launch as well and maybe squeeze some additional distance with a slightly lower launch. Combine that with a little lower spin and you will be dropped hammers out there.  

 

The G410 LST has knocked spin down substantially, got me feeling confident again with driver and it is super forgiving. 

 

Shaft wise I would say you could go into an X or firmer stiff. Depends on how you load it, but you are right on the cusp of X and stiff. I have similar ball speed with driver and I am in a stiff trimmed down to a 45" playing length which stiffens it up a fraction. I found that flex to be ideal for me as it makes me feel like I don't have to crush it to load an x and swing out of my shoes. 

 

Hope that helps brother! 

-Nick 

 

 

Same for me. I always struggle with too much spin with the driver (albeit low launch, instead of high). Since going to the LST version from Ping, I am vastly improved with the driver. It is not the lowest spinning, or lowest launching, but it does knock both down considerably. The problems I always had previously when going to low spin heads (SLDR, etc) was a lack of forgiveness and consistency. This Ping cures that. Nothing else gives me anything close to the numbers and performance it does. 
 

Don’t sleep on the Tour shaft, either. It is phenomenal. I would likely continue using it even if I switched into another brand’s driver. 

[NRJyzr]

23 hours ago, Dawgdude said:

 

Good to know: the fitter thought it was stiff and should be adequate initially but didn't have shafts on hand, only iron shafts. 

 

I found some used drivers to try: start at X-stiff and look at something like a Smoke X 60 or 70?   I didn't know I would be in a X shaft until yesterday: he started me at soft stiff based on my time off, but put me in stiff (still too soft) and then the 100X was absolutely perfect.  Tight and controlled.    My swing is pretty deliberate: I am trying to make the quickest part of the swing before impact.  I bought one of those orange whips to help me with my backswing timing.  

 

My suggestion is to not be afraid to go heavier with your driver shaft, and maybe go shorter.  It's possible you could need a 70 or even 80g or more shaft.  Bias alert:  I am rather biased against shafts under 70g.  And, I also prefer drivers at 44" or shorter.  ? 

 

If you want a cheap experiment, you could track down an older stick, slap some lead tape on it, and use a 3 wood shaft.  While they may have their problems, this is one aspect of TM drivers that is quite lovely; you can pick from anything going all the way back to the R1 and RBZ Stage 2 and use the same shaft you might look to use in a SIM. 

 

The Ping LST sticks are also quite excellent (one of the guys in my group grabbed one with dramatic improvement).

 

A last thought....  it's possible your spin numbers are high because your contact is consistently in the bottom half of the clubface.  As Brother Howard Jones has posted many times, a low-on-clubface strike will juice your spin numbers like few things can.

 

Edited September 4, 2020 by NRJyzr
I could have read rest of thread and just posted "what Exactice said" LOL

[Myherobobhope]

17 hours ago, Dawgdude said:

 

What does weight have on the shaft performance?  Is it just lighter/heaver for preference, or do the shafts differ in stiffness for an X 60g vs 70g? 20g doesn't seem like much but I suppose it is 5-8% of a club's total weight. 

 

I've played with a ton of different shafts in my driver, and shaft weight is the first thing I look for now. I can't hit a 50g, 60g is OK and 70g and up is my sweet spot... it makes a ton of difference for me. More than anything I can better "feel" the clubhead as I'm driving through... some people say to swing the lightest shaft you can control, but I think at higher speeds chasing control makes more sense, so I suggest going heavier.

 

I'm at a similar swing speed, and have a Cobra Pro LTD. I've posted at length on it, but it's a very good club. Unfortunately, the used market sucks right now. I just did a quick eBay search and it came up blank... It's actually fairly shocking. The F8 might be a fine replacement, but I never hit it, so I can't speak to it's goodness.

 

For the used club options, here's what I'd recommend keeping an eye out for:

Ping 400 LST - Phenomenal option. It's not going to be cheap. Probably ever. Can always resell it, though.

Cobra Pro LTD - Great club, easy to get new shafts for... this is my gamer

Mizuno S190GT - Great club, but prices have held shockingly well on it... 

 

A quick google search shows the Taylor Made M3 was pretty low launch. Pickings are still slim on eBay... it's nuts out there... Where is all the used golf equipment?

 

On shafts, it's a wild world out there... You can spend a ton of money chasing a great shaft, this is definitely a spot where working with a fitter and having access to try a number of things is a huge help. I'm an Aldila fan boy, and ended up getting a Rogue Silver 110 off ebay fairly cheap... It's a great shaft. I tend to get along with Aldila shafts, though... There are plenty of high $ low spin shafts out there... the HZRDOUS Hulk, the Ventus Black, the Ventus Blue... if you have the cash to drop, it's a picnic!

 

There are some classic low spin shafts that definitely still perform, though... Diamana + White is a great example. It will take some research and experimenting to find what works for you.

 

I've spent some time and money buying various heads just for the shafts installed in them... sometimes it's cheaper than buying just the shaft. The used market is really weird right now, though.

 

You want to know how weird the golf club market is? 2 of the top High Swing Speed drivers on Mai Golf Thai's top 5 list are the PXG 0811 and the Lynx Black Cat... The Lynx driver is $400. The PXG is $279... I give up. (Other top three are the TS2, the SIM and Srixon Z785... though I believe the PING 410LST is the top dog.)

 

OK, so after screwing around on eBay and looking at shaft options and everything else, I'm going to recommend you do 2 things...

 

One: Find a good PING fitter, go hit the LST. It's a great club, holds it's value and the 425 will only be marginally better.

Two: See if you can find a PXG fitter and try the 0811 XF... or take a flyer on it... I've got more than $300 into my used Cobra head, and I'm sure the PXG will resale for more. 

 

Honestly, if I weren't furloughed, I'd probably drop the $300 on the 0811 XF with a Diamana S+ 70g and call it a day... For $279 that's a lot of stick.