Playing a MM/MG Tournament with Handicaps and "No Net Birdies"?

[Bushwood Country Club]

Some members at our club are requesting we make a modification in how we establish scoring rules in our handicapped events (Member/Member, Member /Guest, Match Play, etc.).  They have suggested that we eliminate "net birdies" - so that a score of par on a hole that the player receives a stroke is recorded as a par vs a "net birdie".  The logic is that the lower handicap player should not lose a hole to the higher handicap golfer if both players make a par.

 

- Have any of you ever heard of this?

- What has your experience been?  Did the competition respond well to this or not well?

 

If you have not played in this format, what would be your reaction to this change being made in events you had played in before under the "normal" rules?

 

Thanks for your comments.

Edited September 14, 2020 by Bushwood Country Club
TYPO

[b.helts]

That’s crazy. If using handicaps, a net par loses to a net birdie every time. 
 

I don’t even understand what exactly this means. It sounds like if an 18 handicap is playing a zero handicap and they both make gross par on a hole the hole is halved? Bonkers. 

[davep043]

4 minutes ago, Bushwood Country Club said:

Some members at our club are requesting we make a modification in how we establish scoring rules in our handicapped events (Member/Member, Member /Guest, Match Play, etc.).  They have suggested that we eliminate "net birdies" - so that a score of par on a hole that the player receives a stroke is recorded as a par vs a "net birdie".  The logic is that the lower handicap player should not lose a hole to the higher handicap golfer is both players make a par.

 

- Have any of you ever heard of this?

- What has your experience been?  Did the competition respond well to this or not well?

 

If you have not played in this format, what would be your reaction to this change being made in events you had played in before under the "normal" rules?

 

Thanks for your comments.

Let me guess, its the lower handicap members that have suggested this.  Its not enough that lower handicaps generally have an advantage, they want a bigger advantage.  Why not just play everything at scratch, tilt the competition even more in their favor. 

 

I honestly have never heard this suggested, and I can't imagine that the bulk of the members would be very receptive.  At a 6 handicap, I'm towards the lower end of the range, but I still don't think this is anywhere approaching a fair format.

[Gsea]

If you play handicaps that's the definition NET score otherwise shut up and play gross. If your game is good enough you will win either way.

[goheels11]

Before we go into a rabbit hole of assuming we know the answer, my guess is it could be proposed for several different reasons. Obviously the lower handicap bias has already been proposed…with some passion.  Lol. 
 

there are also a few other possibilities. 90% of all the tournaments played at a club are of the net nature. A high percentage of those tournaments also have a partner. My guess is the folks proposing this format have either been exhausted by sandbagging at the club...or...

 

Another suggestion is that the handicap system is not necessarily built well to accommodate partner type matchplay. I think we’ve all played with that person that would shoot 100 if they had to add everything up in a stroke play event, but are much more relaxed when they can pick the ball up after seven tries.  Or more comfortable hitting that 7 iron over water when their partner is on the surface already. 

 

Personally, I don’t think this no net birdies is a good solution to other issues. If you have a sandbag problem, play as a percentage of handicaps.  If you have other issues, maybe you need to look a little bit deeper into how the tournaments are set up. Just food for thought.

 

 

[jvincent]

If you're playing in a partner event the recommendation is usually to play off a percentage of your index.

 

Good timing for this, we just had our two man net best ball this weekend. My partner and I played off a 2 and a +2 respectively. We only made two gross birdies and made a few bogies as we weren't even close to the top. As it should be. If we had ham and egged it better we would have been about 4 shots better than we ended up.

[nsxguy]

So then it's a net competition with no (OK, fewer) strokes.

 

Got it. ?

 

[davep043]

9 hours ago, nsxguy said:

So then it's a net competition with no (OK, fewer) strokes.

 

Got it. ?

 

Its a net competition but strokes only count if they're not needed to win a hole.  Or if the lower-handicap opponents make a bogey or worse, and deserve to lose.  But if they make a par they don't deserve to lose, because....well because.

 

10 hours ago, jvincent said:

If you're playing in a partner event the recommendation is usually to play off a percentage of your index.

The suggestion is 90% for fourball match play.

[Bushwood Country Club]

The first time this was suggested to me, I thought it made sense. The folks who suggested it, indicated that another club they played at used this method -  and the membership liked it.   

 

When I gave it more consideration, it started to make less sense - so I kept thinking.

 

Then I took out a scorecard, and played an imaginary round using a "scratch / + index" golfer I know vs me (I am an 8 index) on a hole by hole basis.  When I did that, it made even less sense. I'm trying to be very open minded, and collect as much informations and feedback as I can.  The coming discussion is certainly going to be spirited, and I want to be informed and open minded.

 

Thanks for all the comments.

[mizuno player]

When I was tournament director at my old club we would do net and gross skins. Also, we made every participant throw $ in for skins. It was not an option.  I can't remember if it was $5 or $10. 

[Mr_Wolfe]

Whenever I am running small tournaments, I do not do handicapped skins. If I have 32 players, depending on how their handicaps breakdown, I will have flights and there are groups playing together for skins with no handicaps. It just removes so many headaches.

 

I do not like the idea of pars turning into birdies. I am a 6.9 index and it's not like I birdie that many more holes than say a 12 handicapper, but I double bogey much less. I, however, don't mind if pars (that are stroked to a birdie) can remove someone else's skin.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Mr. Wolfe

[mneumann]

The only time over ever heard a variation of this is in a full field net skins game where you only get half strokes. So if you are an 18 you get a half on each hole, your par net birdie and a half loses to gross birdie but birdie net eagle and a half beats gross birdie. This actually evens the field a bit when scoring across a large field.

 

In a match this sounds ridiculous. Caps are designed to even one on one play.

 

One variation a member guest I play in does is that the guest gets their lowest index for the last 12 months, so if you want to sandbag you have to be a full time bagger. No going from 10 to 15 the revision before the tourney.