The Evolution of Putting...

[Divot License]

On 12/7/2020 at 5:19 PM, bladehunter said:

Lol.  Don’t thank me.  I preformed a stroke rebuild last winter with the guidance of several here and otherwise.   Took several months.  Went from a shoulder rocking outside in mess to a nice arc and feeling of right hand releasing the toe.    I won’t detail the success. But let’s just say that I’ve won a lot this summer and am not the same player.  By a long shot.  Takes discipline to make any change permanent. But I’m proud so say that whne I pickup a putter that is face balanced , it’s as foreign feeling and frightening as holding a poisonous snake.  Lol. 
 

a thought that works for me.  The shoulders should move too.  But instead of like a pendulum motion where they stay parallel to the toe line or target line. Think of a mini backswing where the lead shoulder goes under the chin.  Now of course you won’t turn that far unless it’s a 70 ft putt. But a small turn is needed. Then release the right hand.  You’ll have t play with ball position to find where it leaves on line.  

@bladehunter

 

Would love you to go into more details about what you worked on to make the change. 

[naval2006]

On 12/7/2020 at 9:26 AM, 3whacker said:

Even though I have no way to prove it, it would not surprise me to find out that he played a different ball in the Open's or the major's (possibly a Slazenger or Royal Maxfli), who knows, I think the old Darrell Survey was used at PGA Tour events but he may have contractually given him a pass on world wide events

Greg Norman played Tour Editions for a while. That balls backspin could be uncontrollable for ballstrikers like him. 

[swagee]

On 11/26/2020 at 11:44 PM, m d g said:

I am watching Shell's Wonderful World of Golf...a match between Chi Chi Rodriguez, Gay Brewer, and Arnold Palmer in Puerto Rico in 1969.

 

All three players use all wrists when putting. They all have hunched shoulders and stand very close to the ball. None of them rock their shoulders at all...their shoulders don't move.

 

Because of his wristy motion, all three 'pop' the ball, kind of like Snedaker.

 

I know the greens weren't as fast back then, but are slow greens the only reason for this putting style?

 

It seemed to work for three very good palyers.

 

Btw, Chi Chi might be pound-for-pound one of the longest hitters in golf. He was driving it close to 300 yards and weighed nothing : )

It is an evolution, and here’s where we’re at right now 😂

Is it even legal to use 11 fingers??? 
 

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by swagee

[Valtiel]

On 12/7/2020 at 9:19 AM, bladehunter said:

Lol.  Don’t thank me.  I preformed a stroke rebuild last winter with the guidance of several here and otherwise.   Took several months.  Went from a shoulder rocking outside in mess to a nice arc and feeling of right hand releasing the toe.    I won’t detail the success. But let’s just say that I’ve won a lot this summer and am not the same player.  By a long shot.  Takes discipline to make any change permanent. But I’m proud so say that whne I pickup a putter that is face balanced , it’s as foreign feeling and frightening as holding a poisonous snake.  Lol. 
 

a thought that works for me.  The shoulders should move too.  But instead of like a pendulum motion where they stay parallel to the toe line or target line. Think of a mini backswing where the lead shoulder goes under the chin.  Now of course you won’t turn that far unless it’s a 70 ft putt. But a small turn is needed. Then release the right hand.  You’ll have t play with ball position to find where it leaves on line.  

This is really validating to read because once the COVID stuff started and I stopped golfing/stayed home, I committed to basically 6 months of building a putting stroke. I would say "rebuilding", but if i'm honest I don't think I ever really *had* a putting stroke to begin with, at least not something that I was committed to repeating consistently. My only goal in this time was to find whatever it was that allowed to hit the center of the putter consistently and on my desired line, I didn't care how I got there. I experimented with all sorts of different things, mainly different grips/grip styles and different stroke styles. I had no idea what I really liked, and many things felt like they would work for a bit but then i'd lose the feel of it. Much like grinding on the range, the things that work once you can get into a "groove" are ultimately useless on the course because it has to work the first time. Some things that I thought were game changers took too many reps to feel right the next day and I had to ditch them. 

After going through that over and over for a few months, eventually some things started to shake out. I started realizing that some of the grips I was trying to felt wrong did so because they were too big. I also started realizing that anything that involved too much left hand focus created inconsistency, as did anything that involved resisting rotation or releasing the head. Swinging the putter with just my right hand, I could hit the center every time, and a natural arc obviously formed. I decided to run with that, and now several months later it is still the best feeling and most consistent approach that has come from this process. Left hand does virtually nothing, right hand governs almost everything with a nice full release. Putting from 10ft and in is night and day in terms of consistency and i've have missed virtually no shorter (<5ft) putts since taking this approach to the course. I still need to work on my distance and lag putting badly as months of indoor practice has tanked my feel for anything at distance, but I know that just needs more reps on the course. Putting went from something I was extremely indifferent about to something I look forward to practicing!

[tannyhoban]

Kevin Na put on a pretty good putting exhibition yesterday. 
 

Read, speed and stroke.

 

 

[oikos1]

8 hours ago, Valtiel said:

This is really validating to read because once the COVID stuff started and I stopped golfing/stayed home, I committed to basically 6 months of building a putting stroke. I would say "rebuilding", but if i'm honest I don't think I ever really *had* a putting stroke to begin with, at least not something that I was committed to repeating consistently. My only goal in this time was to find whatever it was that allowed to hit the center of the putter consistently and on my desired line, I didn't care how I got there. I experimented with all sorts of different things, mainly different grips/grip styles and different stroke styles. I had no idea what I really liked, and many things felt like they would work for a bit but then i'd lose the feel of it. Much like grinding on the range, the things that work once you can get into a "groove" are ultimately useless on the course because it has to work the first time. Some things that I thought were game changers took too many reps to feel right the next day and I had to ditch them. 

After going through that over and over for a few months, eventually some things started to shake out. I started realizing that some of the grips I was trying to felt wrong did so because they were too big. I also started realizing that anything that involved too much left hand focus created inconsistency, as did anything that involved resisting rotation or releasing the head. Swinging the putter with just my right hand, I could hit the center every time, and a natural arc obviously formed. I decided to run with that, and now several months later it is still the best feeling and most consistent approach that has come from this process. Left hand does virtually nothing, right hand governs almost everything with a nice full release. Putting from 10ft and in is night and day in terms of consistency and i've have missed virtually no shorter (<5ft) putts since taking this approach to the course. I still need to work on my distance and lag putting badly as months of indoor practice has tanked my feel for anything at distance, but I know that just needs more reps on the course. Putting went from something I was extremely indifferent about to something I look forward to practicing!

To you and @bladehunter, I can appreciate the right hand release.  Changed my putting as well.  Well, that and a few other things.  I tell my self to finish, like I would in a full swing.  Of course it's not a full finish, but it feels as though my right hand is going to the hole, as though I've literally tossed the ball with my right hand.  It's a great feeling and I know instantly when I don't do this.  On longer and uphill putts, I'll stand behind the ball and mimic a few under hand tosses just to get a feel for the speed.  My confidence in putting lately has been the best I can remember.

 

 

[tannyhoban]

[tannyhoban]

Just now, tannyhoban said:

90% of all golf balls sold in '86 were surlyn. I rarely played balata. Preferred Maxfli Blue Max. I putted my best back in those days (mid 70s to mid 80s) with a Ping Ayd. No scar tissue, lol. 
 

As for green speeds, they varied greatly from venue to venue. 
 

Tour courses these days are far more consistent. There were fast greens back in the '60s and '70s for sure. Just not standard.

 

Ping made companies realize they needed to put more focus in tech to keep up. Some did, some didn't.

 

Great putting is first and foremost confidence.

 

 

[m d g]

On 12/12/2020 at 5:19 AM, tannyhoban said:

Ping made companies realize they needed to put more focus in tech to keep up.

It would be fun if Ping still made those crazy golf balls, but it wasn't their core business so I understand dropping them.

[Golf10]

Putting with a toaster on the end of the stick has taken some of the skill out of putting.  Maybe instead of rollback you allow only 1.5 inches from the face to the back of the putter.  That would make players need touch again.  Swinging a 5 inch mallet makes distance control much easier.

[oikos1]

9 hours ago, Golf10 said:

Putting with a toaster on the end of the stick has taken some of the skill out of putting.  Maybe instead of rollback you allow only 1.5 inches from the face to the back of the putter.  That would make players need touch again.  Swinging a 5 inch mallet makes distance control much easier.

 

Interesting. Do you think it's the weight or the size?

 

I sand shafted my center shafted Seemore blade putter years ago.  The heaviness feels great and it feels balanced from top to bottom. 

[Golf10]

2 hours ago, oikos1 said:

 

Interesting. Do you think it's the weight or the size?

 

I sand shafted my center shafted Seemore blade putter years ago.  The heaviness feels great and it feels balanced from top to bottom. 

I think it's both.  The putter swings itself more or less.  The center of gravity is so far back.  Can't blame anyone for using tech to their advantage.

[m d g]

12 hours ago, Golf10 said:

Swinging a 5 inch mallet makes distance control much easier.

Doesn't that work both ways? Wouldn't a heavier, more massive putter lead to hitting putts too far?

[Hstead]

I changed my putting this year big time too, similar to the way some here have explained.  I starting using the decade system and calculated strokes gained etc.  I thought I was a good putter, and I wasn't bad, rarely three putt, but I was losing strokes on putts outside of ten feet big time.  I wasn't making the percentage that I should outside of ten feet.  

 

I had a more shoulder driven, less hands, "locked-in" stroke.  It was good for distance control and short putts, but I wasn't making enough.

 

I started reading and watching anything and everything I could find from some of the greats, mostly Crenshaw and Faxon and a little Tiger.  They both led me to change my grip, both the physical grips on my putters and my hands on the putter.  I went to a Ping PP58 skinny grip from larger grips on all of my putters.  I went to a grip in my fingers instead of the life line of my palm.  Now I get the heel pad of the left hand on top of the grip more like a full swing grip.  I quit worrying about the shaft running up my forearms.  I now have some angle from my forearms to my putter shaft.  I stand taller, feet closer, and much more relaxed, like no tension what so ever in my shoulders and arms at all.  The grip pressure is extremely light too.  The right hand now drives the stroke.  It is almost an all hands feel in my putting.  I focus on the right thumb and pointer finger, that is what controls everything now.

 

My stats went through the roof.  Strokes gained putting went from losing over 2.5 strokes to gaining 2.5 strokes.  Making more than my share of 20 plus footers now.  

[Golf10]

9 hours ago, m d g said:

Doesn't that work both ways? Wouldn't a heavier, more massive putter lead to hitting putts too far?

A larger, heavier putter to a certain extent made all facets of putting easier for me.

[m d g]

1 hour ago, Golf10 said:

A larger, heavier putter to a certain extent made all facets of putting easier for me.

My friend has one with a convertible face. One side is harder for slow greens (more MOI) and the other is softer for faster greens. To me that would be very confusing...

 

He tends to just leave it on the same side : )

[MUNIGRIT]

How does Steve Stricker putt?

[Golf10]

2 hours ago, MUNIGRIT said:

How does Steve Stricker putt?

 

Pretty darn good IMO.

[dbleag]

On 12/15/2020 at 1:32 PM, Hstead said:

I started reading and watching anything and everything I could find from some of the greats, mostly Crenshaw and Faxon and a little Tiger.  They both led me to change my grip, both the physical grips on my putters and my hands on the putter.  I went to a Ping PP58 skinny grip from larger grips on all of my putters.  I went to a grip in my fingers instead of the life line of my palm.  Now I get the heel pad of the left hand on top of the grip more like a full swing grip.  I quit worrying about the shaft running up my forearms.  I now have some angle from my forearms to my putter shaft.  I stand taller, feet closer, and much more relaxed, like no tension what so ever in my shoulders and arms at all.  The grip pressure is extremely light too.  The right hand now drives the stroke.  It is almost an all hands feel in my putting.  I focus on the right thumb and pointer finger, that is what controls everything now.

 

Hdstead - did you change the length of your putter when you changed your posture?  Does your stroke feel more "handsy"?

[Hstead]

52 minutes ago, dbleag said:

Hdstead - did you change the length of your putter when you changed your posture?  Does your stroke feel more "handsy"?

I play a 36" putter anyway, but the difference for me is that now I have my arms extended a lot farther than I  used to.  I used to bend more and have my elbows tucked in more to my sides.  I do feel a little more "handsy" but my objective is to now roll the ball vs hit the ball if that makes sense?  So I almost feel longer and smoother through the stroke with less "hit".  

[Soloman1]

I have a 2-car garage full of putters. None of them work.

I used to be so bad in the 1980's that if I had a putt hanging on the lip, I could have had a 5 footer coming back.

I was eventually sentenced to yip hell. I ended up putting left-handed, cross-handed, wearing big furry cart mitts and, and, and...

 

I closed my eyes during the actual stroke after keeping them open during a practice stroke.

 

I eventually went away from big fat grips too, and I found an offset head was my enemy.

 

Now, I'm pretty good at 5 footers or less because I look at the blade of grass on the lip where I want the putt to roll over into the hole. I look at the hole and stroke the ball pure. I look at the ball and I hit it on heel with the face at a random direction except in line with my intended line.

 

Now, I'm nuts, but it works for me. I also use my right hand more than left. I just let the putter head go where it wants after the back stroke.

 

I do find it interesting that every time I fool around and putt with one hand (right hand only), I make pure contact and roll the ball well. I have almost no sensation of vibration at impact. Two hands? Always feel the vibration from a less than perfect impact.

 

I drive the ball straighter than I can putt. 🙂

[BigD]

Great thread. I noticed that Faxon, Loren Roberts and Stricker all use a version of the Scotty Cameron Laguna style putter?  Is this a coincidence?  Crenshaw with a 8802. I believe Faxon is the only one of those four that use a plumbers neck. Just wanted to see if anyone else noticed this and if it is just coincidence. 

[3whacker]

51 minutes ago, BigD said:

Great thread. I noticed that Faxon, Loren Roberts and Stricker all use a version of the Scotty Cameron Laguna style putter?  Is this a coincidence?  Crenshaw with a 8802. I believe Faxon is the only one of those four that use a plumbers neck. Just wanted to see if anyone else noticed this and if it is just coincidence. 

Scotty's Laguna style putter is a direct copy of the Ping  Zing or My Day that Curtis Strange used to win back to back US Open's...and the 8802 was originally the Arnold Palmer signature model with Wilson before he formed Peerless/Arnold Palmer golf company..Most of SC designs are just Solheim/Ping designs but using different materials, and having tighter specs...Even Jordan Spieth's SC putter is the original Scottsdale head of a Ping Anser, it was also used by the John Byron golf company and they called theirs a Dale Head (I know because I have one of their originals in my bag)

[BigD]

Thanks for the reply. I was referring to the style used by those three players specifically. Which is the Laguna/Zing style. I just thought it was interesting that three of the best putters use a similar style, also one not used by many other players today. 

[jobin]

If someone could, not me, organize a chart showing the Euro and USA tour winners the past 3 years and the putters used to win those tourneys, i think we would see a wide variation in styles of putters, weight of putter heads, kind of shaft neck, etc.  You would also see a number of grips (handles) and gripping styles.

Probably the only few things all winners have in common might be:  greens are very good to excellent, each winner has practiced LOTS. 

[3whacker]

22 hours ago, BigD said:

Thanks for the reply. I was referring to the style used by those three players specifically. Which is the Laguna/Zing style. I just thought it was interesting that three of the best putters use a similar style, also one not used by many other players today. 

could also be that Roberts and Faxon and Strange both have the same style and philosophy when it comes to putting (along with Stan Utley) to release the toe of the putter in the stroke and the Laguna/Zing putter is toe heavy which promotes that type of stroke

[dbleag]

Doesn't Tiger use a drill where he uses tees to stop his putter head at impact?  

[MMB1500]

On 27/11/2020 at 3:36 AM, iBanesto said:

The best of all time.

 

 

 

 

This looks almost exactly like the stroke Stan Utley teaches. 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2021 by MMB1500