This is a topic that will irritate you, but make your handicap go down.

[Socrates]

18 hours ago, Shilgy said:

That sure seems counterintuitive to me….but then most of golf is.  If the club is too upright the toe will be up at address…..if I choke up the same club is now soled properly.

That is one reason why choking up is a not a good idea.

 

 

[chisag]

On 11/28/2020 at 6:51 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

There’s no world long wedge contest, they are made for accuracy not distance.  You ever notice how higher level players have much shorter swings on wedges than driver?  Most of you know that even though I’m an old fat man, I can carry a driver 3 bills without much trouble, yet my PW is 130-135.  140 is NEVER a PW unless there is an extenuating circumstance.

 

 

... Back in the 90's a golfing friend of mine was paired up with Tom Weiskopf in a Pro Am back when PW's were 48* and they were warming up before the round. Kevin watched Tom drop about 10 wedges in a tight little circle with a lower flight than his wedge and asked how far he was hitting them. Tom said 130 yds and Kevin said "Wow, I can hit my pw 145 yds" and Tom replied "So can I, but what would I do with my 9 iron?" 

Edited February 5, 2022 by chisag

[MonteScheinblum]

19 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

 

... Back in the 90's a golfing friend of mine was paired up with Tom Weiskopf in a Pro Am back when PW's were 48* and they were warming up before the round. Kevin watched Tom drop about 10 wedges in a tight little circle with a lower flight than his wedge and asked how far he was hitting them. Tom said 130 yds and Kevin said "Wow, I can hit my pw 145 yds" and Tom replied "So can I, but what would I do with my 9 iron?" 

Exactly right.  

[dvq9654]

I've been trying to implement this more and more, and today it worked to the full effect. Took a 3/4 PW from ~120 vs. trying to muscle a 50. Result was a lower trajectory, laser dead into the bottom of the cup. Nice little non-traditional eagle. 

 

Did the same thing with a 9 iron from ~138 and hit it to ~8 feet a bit earlier in the round. 

 

Not to say there weren't other shots where I hit the full distance but picking your spots and realizing the value of clubbing down is massive 

[tatertot]

I feel like I'm in an odd situation ... I finished last season at a 2.7 index ...

 

I hit my driver between 230 and 250, fairly consistent (not straight, but I usually find the fairway). I'm usually a short hitter in my groups off the tee.

 

But with my irons, I'm usually equal to or longer than my partners, and I don't play a souped-up distance iron, and I don't blast them full power, especially by short irons. My 150 club is either a 9 iron or an 8 iron ... but I don't usually go more than 125 with my PW.

[dvq9654]

23 minutes ago, tatertot said:

I feel like I'm in an odd situation ... I finished last season at a 2.7 index ...

 

I hit my driver between 230 and 250, fairly consistent (not straight, but I usually find the fairway). I'm usually a short hitter in my groups off the tee.

 

But with my irons, I'm usually equal to or longer than my partners, and I don't play a souped-up distance iron, and I don't blast them full power, especially by short irons. My 150 club is either a 9 iron or an 8 iron ... but I don't usually go more than 125 with my PW.

 

Something unique to your driver swing? May be worth an online lesson. The distances don't really seem to align, so would imagine you have more potential at the top end of your bag

Edited February 6, 2022 by dvq9654

[tatertot]

10 minutes ago, dvq9654 said:

 

Something wrong with your driver swing? May be worth an online lesson. The distances don't really seem to align, so would imagine you have more potential at the top end of your bag

Yeah ... that's what I'm thinking, too.

 

Oddly enough, I was kinda hoping/dreading that answer. I'd like to find an extra few yards off the tee, but I'm not thrilled with overhauling the driver swing or tweaking the current swing and risking missing more fairways. 

 

Golfing is a cruel mistress.

[MonteScheinblum]

7 minutes ago, tatertot said:

Yeah ... that's what I'm thinking, too.

 

Oddly enough, I was kinda hoping/dreading that answer. I'd like to find an extra few yards off the tee, but I'm not thrilled with overhauling the driver swing or tweaking the current swing and risking missing more fairways. 

 

Golfing is a cruel mistress.

Proper swing changes don’t make distance and accuracy mutually exclusive 

[tatertot]

28 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Proper swing changes don’t make distance and accuracy mutually exclusive 

I know ... I've played for 40 years and never taken a full swing lesson, and think I've maxed out my self-taught abilities. Just scared of trying to find somebody I trust to work with. And committing myself to putting in the work on the range. 

[MonteScheinblum]

Just now, tatertot said:

I know ... I've played for 40 years and never taken a full swing lesson, and think I've maxed out my self-taught abilities. Just scared of trying to find somebody I trust to work with. And committing myself to putting in the work on the range. 

Fair

[Paddy_2_Iron]

On 12/1/2020 at 3:44 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

I tell people 9 iron times 2 equals driver carry.

 

That makes a lot of sense.  125 * 2 = 250.   That's about my drive.   I am assuming total distance.  

[Robert L.]

Driver - 200 yards, 220 if I really nail it.

PW - 90 to 100 yards.

 

[ezra76]

17 hours ago, tatertot said:

I feel like I'm in an odd situation ... I finished last season at a 2.7 index ...

 

I hit my driver between 230 and 250, fairly consistent (not straight, but I usually find the fairway). I'm usually a short hitter in my groups off the tee.

 

But with my irons, I'm usually equal to or longer than my partners, and I don't play a souped-up distance iron, and I don't blast them full power, especially by short irons. My 150 club is either a 9 iron or an 8 iron ... but I don't usually go more than 125 with my PW.

I've done a few lessons at Golf Galaxy and having the video and launch monitor there help a lot to see exactly what's going on. Nobody is going to try to reconstruct your swing in an hour lesson. More like tweak setup or show you where you are different somewhere in your swing with your driver than you are with a mid iron. The thing I like is that with the monitor there it's like killing 2 birds with one stone as you get all your launch, spin, path to face ect.. numbers. You'll see if you are launching your driver way to high, low, too much or too little spin ect.. I went to a demo fitting day yesterday and sprayed the 1st driver setup all over 220yds., the 3rd setup was multiple shots in a row carrying 245-250 with near optimal launch and spin. My swing didn't change in the handful of shots between those 2. So that's not a bad idea either. Taylormade and Callaway have the signup links to local demo days. It's a 1/2 hour free fitting. You might not buy anything but it can be an eye opener and it's free. 

[DaveMc82]

It’s amazing how this thread retains relevance. Today’s round was played in 30mph winds gusting to 55mph. All but 2 holes of the front 9 were dead into it and then the 18th also. 
 

I hit PW from between 50-160 yards depending on orientation of the hole. The 160 was a 3/4 thumper deliberately landing it in the downslope 15 yards shy of the pin. I even hit 5 iron from 110 concentrating on minimising spin loft. Shooting 77 round the par 71 was immensely satisfying despite being 4 over handicap. 
 

I would love to see the ball flight/club data for the people who try to hit PW full out.

[MonteScheinblum]

29 minutes ago, DaveMc82 said:

It’s amazing how this thread retains relevance. Today’s round was played in 30mph winds gusting to 55mph. All but 2 holes of the front 9 were dead into it and then the 18th also. 
 

I hit PW from between 50-160 yards depending on orientation of the hole. The 160 was a 3/4 thumper deliberately landing it in the downslope 15 yards shy of the pin. I even hit 5 iron from 110 concentrating on minimising spin loft. Shooting 77 round the par 71 was immensely satisfying despite being 4 over handicap. 
 

I would love to see the ball flight/club data for the people who try to hit PW full out.

Don’t need data.  Lots of balls long left and short right. 😜

Edited February 6, 2022 by MonteScheinblum

[msg]

We are all buried in snow in Canada so I went to the golf sim place and played with my buddies. 

 

I implemented this idea again and kept on hitting relaxed shots and clubbing up on the approach shots.  I watched my other three buddies come up short again and again. 

 

If only they would listen. 

[vandyfan]

On the 2nd hole I had a downhill lie shot into a shallow green with 110 to the pin, 100 to the front, 115 to the back. Normally, I would try to step on a GW (like a moron) because of how shallow the green is and worried that I wouldn't spin a soft PW enough to hold the green. I thought about this thread, hit a soft PW and left it pin high, 5 ft left of the pin. For the remainder of the day I hit PW from 95 out, 120 out, 111 out and 117 out. I *can* hit a PW 135 yds but...as mentioned here...why?

[MonteScheinblum]

1 hour ago, blackbdmillsaps said:

On the 2nd hole I had a downhill lie shot into a shallow green with 110 to the pin, 100 to the front, 115 to the back. Normally, I would try to step on a GW (like a moron) because of how shallow the green is and worried that I wouldn't spin a soft PW enough to hold the green. I thought about this thread, hit a soft PW and left it pin high, 5 ft left of the pin. For the remainder of the day I hit PW from 95 out, 120 out, 111 out and 117 out. I *can* hit a PW 135 yds but...as mentioned here...why?

That’s the important part that people miss.

 

I can hit PW 160 yards and not look that out of sorts.  I hit it that far (without wind and altitude aid) maybe 1-2 times per year, it that.  It’s rare I use it from over 140.

 

Too high, too much spin, too much variability.

[DaveGoodrich]

I am a firm believer in "clubbing up," and not just for the wedges.  Think of that shorter, controlled swing you use to hit a flighted wedge to less than "full" distance.  That same feel can work for longer irons and hybrids too, especially into the wind, when you are between clubs, or are faced with a scary forced carry.  Into the wind with a hybrid, I'll literally think "hit this with the feel of a 70 yard 56* wedge."  The 9-3 drill is great way to practice "finishing your swing" on these "less than full" shots, which is critical to execute these shots well.   Another fun way to practice this is to hit at many different targets on the range with the same iron. 

 

I am the "old man" of my regular group, by 20 to 25 years, and have always been pretty "slow twitch" anyway.  So I am already 1 or 2 clubs shorter than those guys on stock swings.  They don't get the "clubbing up" thing, so I am often hitting 3 clubs more than them coming into greens, especially in windy conditions.  Into the wind, I might hit a "chip" 6i to a 140 yard pin, while my buddies are nuking their 9 irons.  But as Monte said, they tend to be short right or long left a lot of the time... 

[khalespace]

Driver 240

PW 120

[CasualLie]

So what I gather from all the feedback from @MonteScheinblum, if you comfortably hit 9i 130 carry. Not nuked, not lazy, just a stock swing.  Then the Driver "carry" should be 260?  And if not, get a lesson because yards are left on the table?  Or get a fitting?  But these days, your typical golfwrx nut has been fit, or at least tried 5 different shafts, so I tend to doubt it's a fitting thing.

[betarhoalphadelta]

I still want to know, for the purposes of this discussion, what loft are we assuming a "PW" and a "9i" are? 

 

When I replaced my 20 year old clubs, my 9i became a PW, and my PW became a GW, loft-wise. 

 

Are we assuming a "PW" is the older 48-49* of loft, or that it's the more modern 44-45* of loft, or that it's completely loft-jacked and closer to 40*?

[DaveGoodrich]

1 hour ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

I still want to know, for the purposes of this discussion, what loft are we assuming a "PW" and a "9i" are? 

 

When I replaced my 20 year old clubs, my 9i became a PW, and my PW became a GW, loft-wise. 

 

Are we assuming a "PW" is the older 48-49* of loft, or that it's the more modern 44-45* of loft, or that it's completely loft-jacked and closer to 40*?

The Howard Jones thread said the 2:1 relationship between driver and PW was for 46 to 48 degree wedges. 

 

'For the purpose of this discussion," I think the idea is that if you are routinely trying to hit your PW as far as you can hit your PW, you are trying to hit it too far. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

14 hours ago, DaveGoodrich said:

The Howard Jones thread said the 2:1 relationship between driver and PW was for 46 to 48 degree wedges. 

 

'For the purpose of this discussion," I think the idea is that if you are routinely trying to hit your PW as far as you can hit your PW, you are trying to hit it too far. 

 

Got it. My 48* wedge is my 125-130 club, and I drive the ball 265-270. 

[crust]

I remember reading or seeing somewhere (I think it may have been the blokes from AMG) that David Toms is deadly inside 100 - with an eight iron.

[dsmil]

My best shot this past weekend was a 100 yard 9 iron, 40 yards under a full swing.  Now the reason for this was to get the ball under some branches, but it reminded me of this thread and the fact that not only can taking distance off of the irons help on normal shots, but it can also make you more comfortable with the other types of shots that you're faced with on the golf course.  I've also been shanking full swing irons lately, but not 3/4 swings.  This weekend was 45 degrees with 20 mph winds, and the shortened swing was all that I really needed.

 

Monte also stated somewhere in this thread that this way of taking something off of your irons can be used all the way through until about a 7 or 8 iron, and I'm thinking that many of us do this with wedges but don't think about doing it with 7-9 irons, when we really should (assuming land angles are steep enough).  I believe that when comparing amateur to pro golfers, vertical dispersion is the huge separator, and I would think that this has to do with making clean contact on the ball.  Yes, using a 9 iron instead of an 8 iron can help your lateral dispersion slightly due to the increased spin loft, but I would think that making clean contact and tightening up the vertical dispersion is key for most amateur golfers.

 

 

[PracticeSwinger]

On 2/22/2022 at 4:23 PM, dsmil said:

I believe that when comparing amateur to pro golfers, vertical dispersion is the huge separator, and I would think that this has to do with making clean contact on the ball.  Yes, using a 9 iron instead of an 8 iron can help your lateral dispersion slightly due to the increased spin loft, but I would think that making clean contact and tightening up the vertical dispersion is key for most amateur golfers.

Correct - East-West dispersion going up the cap ladder is usually 1.5x the lower level... while North-South dispersion goes from 1.5x up to 2.8x all the way through cap levels... the scatter plot gets a lot longer than wider... better a crisp 8i swing than a full go 9i for clean contact... that advantage dissolve with the longer clubs since we need speed to get the ball in the air, relatively speaking

Edited February 23, 2022 by MtlJayMan

[Rdailey9108]

Driver 260-280 depends how I'm swinging

PW 45 degree  120-125 (wedges 45,50,56)

 

This thread actually resonates with me because I'm pretty strong and my instinct is always to go hard at the ball and I see my friends hitting pw 145 and my lizard brain gets jealous. Tbh I like pulling out my pw on shots like 100 yards and trying to knock it down. I usually have better luck than trying to swing full and pulling it or something.