Is your putting a strength or a weakness? How do you know?

[nitram]

1 hour ago, Obee said:

 

So this is where the debate about "what is Moonlight's best 'bang for buck' regarding practicing to improve" gets interesting. My contention is that if I can shoot 64 and 66 and 68 in competition, and play to a +2 hitting it 245 off the tee (that's including roll), and hitting 10 greens a round, so can others. And the way I do it is by having a wedge game, short game, and putting that is at a professional level. My contention is simply that it's easier to get most players who have proven themselves to be solid athletes with excellent hand-eye to become "+4's" in the short game area than it is to get them to that level with their ball-striking.

 

I also feel like most players spend far, far more time trying to hit their full shots better than on their short games. And most of them have come far closer to "maxing out" their ability with their full swing than with their short game and putting -- so the short game is where I think some(Notice I said SOME!) players should definitely spend more time.

 

But I could be wrong. 🙂

 

 

 

I think you're right. And I'll go ahead and say MOST should spend more time on the short game to include putting.

[GolfTurkey]

I'm a lifelong dreadful putter who seems to have found the light.  I always tried to have a nice stroke (think Loren Roberts or something like that).

 

I finally gave myself permission to jab it the way that it feels comfortable/natural to me and it totally transformed my putting. I went from a horror show to a really good putter. Recently got Arccos and it thinks I'm a +5 putter (admittedly a small sample size but the last round was +4 putting and felt totally (new) average).

 

The Eureka moment was when I was on the practice putting green and thought to myself "how would I putt this 6 footer if it was for a million bucks or my life?".  I took it back shorter (much shorter than usual) and had almost no follow through. I made it and then proceeded to make a ridiculous amount of putts of various lengths using the same stroke. The only reason that I took it the course and didn't scold myself for being naughty and put myself and that stroke in the cupboard is that I remember David Orr saying that he liked Brandt Snedeker's stroke in one of his Flatstick Academy videos.

[SNIPERBBB]

7 minutes ago, GolfTurkey said:

The Eureka moment was when I was on the practice putting green and thought to myself "how would I putt this 6 footer if it was for a million bucks or my life?".  I took it back shorter (much shorter than usual) and had almost no follow through. I made it and then proceeded to make a ridiculous amount of putts of various lengths using the same stroke. The only reason that I took it the course and didn't scold myself for being naughty and put myself and that stroke in the cupboard is that I remember David Orr saying that he liked Brandt Snedeker's stroke in one of his Flatstick Academy videos.

Thats kinda why i like putting faster greens. When greens get horribly slow and you have to hammer putts its easy to get long with your stroke and a bit wavy and misses are less punishing.

[TravAz]

Arccos is pretty good - and would be better if I was more consistent at marking the pin location on the green. 
 

 
 

 

[phizzy30]

11 hours ago, Krt22 said:

I was actually in the other group (prior to my putter fitting), I have a natural arc but was playing with a face balanced putter. Basically the head would not open in the back stroke and then excessively close in the forward stroke leading to pulls. Adding toe hang (and getting the right length) fixed it quickly

I had to experiment with a lot of putters as well.  Mallets are out for me.  I finally found that the traditional anser style putters worked best for my putting stroke like Tiger.  I have a SC Newport with 2 15 gram weights on the bottom playing 34".  It's been in my bag for over 8 years now.  Before, it would be a miracle if I kept a putter for more than 2 years, lol. 

[LeftyMatt24]

On 11/30/2020 at 10:37 AM, Obee said:

Lots of guys/gals who are mediocre to bad putters (say it out loud, Acekun: "My name is Acekun and I'm a mediocre putter" 😉 ) Are almost afraid to take it seriously. It's weird. I watch them and it's like they can't wait to get it over with, if that makes sense. Like they think they are holding up the group by taking their time on a 4-footer to halve a hole or something. It's crazy.

 

Great putting starts with caring about putting. I dropped from 31.5ish putts a round to 28.9 over a 3 - 6 month period, and it all started with being disgusted that I was missing so many 3 - 4 foot putts and caring enough to start a regimen to fix it.

We’re there any drills you worked on? I average 34 putts a round which is far too many and it’s what keeps me from being a single digit. I three putt about 2-3 times a round and really want to improve this offseason. 

[SNIPERBBB]

2 hours ago, LeftyMatt24 said:

We’re there any drills you worked on? I average 34 putts a round which is far too many and it’s what keeps me from being a single digit. I three putt about 2-3 times a round and really want to improve this offseason. 

How's your green reading? Drills are nice for working on pressure, stroke and speed control. Those aren't too particularly hard to refine barring physical limitations. Green reading is what can put you on the next level. With few exceptions, the guys I play with miss putts because of off reads in makeable range than their stroke.

 

[dhc1]

39 minutes ago, SNIPERBBB said:

How's your green reading? Drills are nice for working on pressure, stroke and speed control. Those aren't too particularly hard to refine barring physical limitations. Green reading is what can put you on the next level. With few exceptions, the guys I play with miss putts because of off reads in makeable range than their stroke.

 

Have to be some really tricked up greens for it to be the cause of 2-3 three putts. 
 

I do agree that it could make a real difference on 5-10 feet one putts

[LeftyMatt24]

46 minutes ago, SNIPERBBB said:

How's your green reading? Drills are nice for working on pressure, stroke and speed control. Those aren't too particularly hard to refine barring physical limitations. Green reading is what can put you on the next level. With few exceptions, the guys I play with miss putts because of off reads in makeable range than their stroke.

 

That is a good point. I find my start line more often and miss putts due to hitting too hard for the break or not playing enough break and missing on the low side. 

[dhc1]

3 hours ago, LeftyMatt24 said:

We’re there any drills you worked on? I average 34 putts a round which is far too many and it’s what keeps me from being a single digit. I three putt about 2-3 times a round and really want to improve this offseason. 

question: how many GIRs do you have and what’s your up-and-down percentage?

Edited December 3, 2020 by dhc1
Typo

[SNIPERBBB]

6 minutes ago, dhc1 said:

Have to be some really tricked up greens for it to be the cause of 2-3 three putts. 
 

I do agree that it could make a real difference on 5-10 feet one putts

Not necessarily. Most people chronically under read putts. I tend to over read. There's always some putts you can throw a hundred putts at and make only a couple. Happens all the time in scrambles. If the first two guys don't make it, it's not going to be made unless they made horrible strokes or ignored the group read.

[LeftyMatt24]

7 minutes ago, dhc1 said:

question: how many GIRs do you have and what’s your up-and-down percentage?

My average GIR is 41% this year and up and down percentage is poor at 31%

Edited December 3, 2020 by LeftyMatt24

[A.Princey]

One way to tell if it's your weakness is if you haven't been making much outside of 10ft. I had a stretch a few years back where I couldn't recall making anything mid-range, hardly at all. Something is wrong if you aren't making the occasional 15-20ft'er. That, and 3-putts for sure. 

[Justsomeguy]

3 putts. If you never 3 putt, the math has to give you a break for never making the crazy 20 footer.

Lag putting - the greatest score saver since sliced bread?

[ChaosTheory]

I think it’s a weakness for me.  11 index. Fairways 64% and my misses are good.  GIR 45%.  Here’s my putting, you tell me.  Half of these are on fast slopey greens which just eat my lunch.  On chipping as well as putting. I do pretty well on more moderate speeds and slopes.  I can chip closer on those.  

[Obee]

1 hour ago, Snowman9000 said:

I think it’s a weakness for me.  11 index. Fairways 64% and my misses are good.  GIR 45%.  Here’s my putting, you tell me.  Half of these are on fast slopey greens which just eat my lunch.  On chipping as well as putting. I do pretty well on more moderate speeds and slopes.  I can chip closer on those.  

 

Yeah, that's definitely an area where you could drop 2 to 3 strokes a round.

[acekun]

Tracked shots gained today. Guess I will do that going forward -- think it's the only objective way to tell how I'm putting. 

 

I put on an oversized, round grip yesterday. Jury is still out on it. 

 

Shots gained against scratch was -0.82. Difference was a missed 4-footer. 30 putts and no 3-putts. The encouraging thing is that I feel like I didn't putt that great inside 10 feet and was only less than a stroke off of scratch. 

 

I did practice my short game this week and it was better. I also committed using wedge more often from fringe instead of putter. My putting stats were better than my average and that was mainly due to my short game. 

[Moonlightgrm]

On 12/2/2020 at 5:30 PM, Obee said:

 

Very, very interesting. I hit 1.5 more fairways a round than you do, but you hit one more green than I do and my index is 4 to 6 shots lower than yours. I average 28.9 putts a round, so that's a big difference right there, obviously. But that "putts per round" putting stat is definitely a combination of putting and short game (and, also, how bad and frequent your "big misses" are). And really, It's probably 120 and in that allows me to average under 29 putts a round.

 

Which brings up a very interesting thing. @RichieHunt and anyone else that is into "strokes gained" as it relates to the average golfer. I've long believed that there's a good percentage of 1 to 6(?) index golfers who absolutely strike the ball well enough to be +1's or +2's, but whose games inside 100(?) yards are the main place they are losing strokes. Admittedly, I do not have any data to back this up.

 

@Moonlightgrmseems to fall into this category and I would submit that he would be better served by working to improve his putting and short game than by working on his driving and mid-iron play -- if he had to choose one or the other (which, of course, he doesn't). It just seems that the "drive it farther and straighter" being the fastest way to gain strokes seems easy to trot out, but it also doesn't seem to me to fit all golfers. It's a definite truism when it comes to golfers as a group, but not necessarily to each individual golfer.

 

Put another way: Moonlight (and other players like him) may be (far?) closer to as good as they will ever get both at driving the ball and full iron play, than they are to as good as they can get at short game and/or putting. Meaning, perhaps they have much more room for attainable improvement with putting and short game. Does that make sense? To anyone? LOLZ. Definitely interested in @MonteScheinblum's take also.

I have an appointment on Thursday for a 1-hour SAM putting lab analysis and lesson. The golf studio has offered a $30 discount until Christmas, so I figured let’s try this. Although our golf season won’t resume until April, a winter of “basement putting” applying what I might learn, could be beneficial. 
 

[acekun]

56 minutes ago, Moonlightgrm said:

I have an appointment on Thursday for a 1-hour SAM putting lab analysis and lesson. The golf studio has offered a $30 discount until Christmas, so I figured let’s try this. Although our golf season won’t resume until April, a winter of “basement putting” applying what I might learn, could be beneficial. 
 

Nice -- please post your experience. I'm interested to hear how it goes. 

 

I also wonder if just talking about putting is making me a better putter lol. It is making me more mindful about what I'm doing during the round. Last 3 rounds I've had 29, 30 and 29 putts. Yesterday, I was +2.6 shots gained against scratch. I had 6 birdies -- personal record. 

Edited December 14, 2020 by acekun

[Moonlightgrm]

The snow storm cancelled my SAM Putting Lab appointment on Thursday. Rescheduled to Monday 12/21/20. I will post what I learn from the experience. 

[Obee]

25 minutes ago, Moonlightgrm said:

The snow storm cancelled my SAM Putting Lab appointment on Thursday. Rescheduled to Monday 12/21/20. I will post what I learn from the experience. 

 

Looking forward to hearing about it!

[Moonlightgrm]

On 12/20/2020 at 2:32 PM, Obee said:

 

Looking forward to hearing about it!

SAM Putting Lab is a very interesting experience. In a day or two my complete report card will be emailed to me and I can share more details. 
 

The instructor started with camera positioning (5- cameras) and calibrating the SAM. The SAM is straight on and there is a TRACKMAN behind you, down the line. He had me hit five, straight 10-foot putts with my Edel putter. My results on these first five putts were excellent. I was in the “green area” in all four categories. Next, I hit five putts with a Callaway Odyssey and received less favorable results. This was followed by three more brand name putters but nothing topped my Edel. 
 

Back to my Edel for five more putts and I remained consistent sinking four out of five and staying in the green area. 
 

As data was compiled a pattern evolved. I aim 2* left of my target on 10-footers then push the putt on-line. Not terrible in his assessment. Camera five showed that my eyes move during my stroke. He put a dot on each golf ball and had me focus my eyes on this during my stroke for instant improvement. 
 

My hour was up, but he had no other appointments so we continued to work for another 40-minutes (Great deal!). He had me try the claw grip. The SAM showed that I had too much face rotation in my stroke (44*) and the claw might quiet it down. It felt funny but after a few practice strokes I gave it a whirl. Yikes! I drained five for five and my face rotation dropped to an average of 38*. 
 

I took a snapshot of my general numbers (4-categories) and will post them by editing my post. When my report card comes in, I will share that too. There are 15 sub-categories one of which is tempo and I was consistently 2:1 which is good 😊. 
 

If you’re a serious golfer, I recommend having the SAM analysis. I may do it again during the summer just for comparison.

 

Tendencies : 76.4%
Timing : 93.1%
Consistency : 84.4%
Overall : 84.6%

Edited December 22, 2020 by Moonlightgrm
4-summaries

[msg]

I used Game Golf at the end of the season. While the putting distances need to be adjusted manually, it is better than nothing. I rarely three putt. I thought I was ok but when I checked my putts from 8 feet below as my first putt distance, I don't convert a lot of them. Since using Game Golf, I only made 28% of putts from a first putt distance of 8 feet and below. That is pretty low considering there are some 5 footers or less in that stat. That is why it keeps on telling me that I am losing strokes on putts less than 10 feet compared to a scratch player, 5 handicapper and a 10 handicapper. My handicap is 8.

 

I pace my putts by walking from the hole to the ball. I wear size 12 shoes and usually two steps for me is about 4 feet. I plan on practicing more of the 10 feet and in putts next season.