Help w/ Driver (i'm wordy, apologize in advance)

[turtsoup]

Ok, a lot like many others, i hit my 3 wood as far as driver.  Three wood seems like a low trajectory and no spin bullet that runs forever.  Its an M6 with a tensei blue and I love it.  Currently hitting a G410 with a Tensei Orange at stock length.  I hit it ok i guess but driver has always been the worst club in my bag.  Currently a 2 handicap and hit driver all over the place, its ridiculous.  Thinking its definitely got to do with attack angle and all of that but can i find something that will help me driver wise?  Do i need to go with a lower spin head or something?  Definitely looking for a new stick.  At this point, i hardly hit fairways anyway so mainly looking for distance i guess.  I dont have very many options for fitting around me, would have to travel quite a bit and i just dont have the time for it currently.  Really thinking maybe TSi3 at 45in or something similar.  Also, ping drivers stock are D3 and some of the new stuff is coming in at D2.  Could i be more weight sensitive maybe.  I know this is a jumbled mess but just getting it out of my head and downloading it on you guys lol.  Its aggravating.  I play with some older guys that hit driver as far as i do.  I hit irons 20 yards further than they do but they hit driver with me, i dont get it

[MelloYello]

Not to be a jerk but I think you just need to fix your swing. Back around 2017-2018 I was struggling a lot with the driver. I was hitting it low. It was going sideways. I was terrible. 

 

I did make a change in equipment but that's probably irrelevant. I focused on getting more comfortable releasing the club and launching the ball effectively. If you're a 2 handicap, you know what good golf is, but you're also at risk of losing that index if you continually hit driver as badly as you describe. If you're not hitting the driver well I'd recommend addressing the swing before shopping (or at least accepting that the shopping is just for fun). 

A good Trackman session might do you good. The size / feel of today's drivers masks quite a lot. Part of my driving issues (even now) stem from the fact that I grew very accustomed to hitting the ball with the toe of the driver. I still hit it high and pretty long. That's driver technology for you! Without Trackman, I never would've discovered how poorly I actually struck the driver on average. It takes a lot of focus and effort to correct for my natural tendency. A lot of shots felt perfectly fine TBH. I couldn't believe how much extra spin even my good shots had due to the toe strikes.

 

Understanding the gravity of that, the idea that equipment could fix it is very clearly not right. One can very easily take someone with 2500 rpms of spin on a good shot and balloon that up for 3500 with a poor strike. No equipment change in the world has the effect that strike does. 

 

The vast, vast, vast majority of golfers would do better by simply addressing their path, AoA, and contact quality. 

 

I can also share that at one point I was a better 3w player than driver player. That suggests you probably just don't have a very good release. If a shorter club with extra loft is helping you, odds are you're probably steep in your angle of attack. 

Edited May 5, 2021 by MelloYello

[TLUBulldogGolf]

Definitely sounds like you have poor launch conditions, hard to really say what the issue is without more data. I would solve the easy(er) stuff first, mainly are you hitting it out of the center. Ideally you would get fit but it sounds like that will be difficult, but if you could find a way to see if you have glaring path of AoA issues that could also help. D3 vs D2 is almost negligible but it's possible the swing weight with the tensei orange is lower due to the counterbalance. It's going to be difficult taking a shot in the dark and finding something that fixes you when it's been a struggle for so long. 

[turtsoup]

Oh I agree with you completely.  I'm sure my AoA with driver is horrendous and normally my strikes are either low or towards the toe.  Def dont think you're being a jerk, just honest.  Irons and wedges are my strong suit which stems from hitting down on the ball.  With the ball flight i'm seeing on 3 wood, i'd imagine i'm also hitting down on it quite a bit.  Transfer that to driver and its a no go.  Definitely agree with you there.  Think i'm definitely shopping for fun because its the clubs fault and not mine, correct?  Lol, thank you for your reply

[turtsoup]

Bulldog, I def think its more AoA issues.  I do agree with everyone there.  Question about that, could a shorter length driver help me to control that better?  Also, control the strike a little better.  Nothing crazy, i'm talking half inch at maybe 45.25 or 45.  I am shorter at 5-9ish but play everything standard

[MelloYello]

Get on a launch monitor and get some real data. As soon as you see what your strike and launch conditions are costing you it'll be quite easy to get motivated. 

 

As soon as you see someone with your same club head speed producing 20 extra yards of distance it's not hard to get motivated to address that. 

 

I know we sometimes make fun of people that go to the range and bang the driver over and over but there's something to be said for it, LOL. You certainly don't want to neglect the driver to the point where you're not hitting it effectively. 

[MelloYello]

1 minute ago, turtsoup said:

Bulldog, I def think its more AoA issues.  I do agree with everyone there.  Question about that, could a shorter length driver help me to control that better?  Also, control the strike a little better.  Nothing crazy, i'm talking half inch at maybe 45.25 or 45.  I am shorter at 5-9ish but play everything standard

 

I'm 5'-10" and I play my driver about 45.5". It's a SIM with a Tensei CK Pro Orange. I've tried 44" drivers in the past. I honestly don't think it much matters. 

 

Honestly, I wouldn't worry about minor stuff like that until you have yourself really dialed in. Fix the major stuff first. 

Edited May 5, 2021 by MelloYello

[turtsoup]

Funny you say banging driver at the range.  I cant tell you the last time I "practiced" driver.  I hate hitting it lol.  Its the only part of my game that keeps me from being scratch.  I guess i've just stayed away from it too long and its time to get to work.  Ughh, i'll prob still get a new stick anyway lol

[Golfah]

I completely changed my driver game just by playing with tee height.  I came across a video of Tiger Woods talking about his tee height and it stunned me.  He mentioned how low he tees the ball and for him, it's even uncomfortably high compared to what he is used to.  When I saw it, it was WAY lower than I generally tee it.

Point being, it totally helped the quality of the strike, and even increased launch for me.  Because there is a tendency to do some screwy things to lift the driver head to attack a ball on a too-high tee, including flipping and shutting/delofting the club.  It was difficult to get used to at first, but now I find I can't launch the ball properly unless it's only 1/2 ball above the top of the crown.  Tiger's is/was even lower.

[turtsoup]

hmm thats a solid point, i'll mess around with it.  i definitely tee it on the high side as my initial thinking is that will help me hit up on it. who knows

[phizzy30]

Def a swing issue.  No driver is going to help that.  I will say this.  Ever since I went from D3 to D5 swing weight, I found my dispersion pattern to be tighter.  Yes, I may have lose a few mph but who cares when I'm long enough to begin with and can find the center of the club face more often.  Also, with driver it's imperative to have neutral to positive AoA, IMO.  Hitting down with driver is a distance killer. 

Edited May 5, 2021 by phizzy30

[SNIPERBBB]

I struggle with my m1 at times especially when my back is stiff and can't quite swing as fast the head just feels heavy and push everything. I drop back to my old 910d2 or callaway epic, the pushes go away and the heads feel lighter

[BURKMI19]

@turtsoup  Without specific details and spending time with you on the range I can't specifically speak to exactly what the issue(s) are.  Here is my long-winded feedback of your description:

1.  Based on experience from what I've personally tinkered with and seen from other players, a significant factor is alignment.  You would have to take the club and use alignment sticks to make sure the setup is identical every time, then hit several balls to get some flight pattern data. 

2.  The length of the club and shaft properties will definitely have an impact on the delivery of the clubhead to the ball.  I have always preferred a significantly heavier-stiffer shaft for my driver and fairway metal because although I give up distance potential I am limiting over flexing the shaft and twisting.  This also helps my preferred fade shape.

3.  Length will have a factor too because the farther away from your body the club is, the more difficult it is to square the face at impact.  The idea that you would need the club to be a lot longer is a falsehood, that would just be a preference.  Try different lengths via choking down on the current shaft.  A lot of tour players are sub 45" for driver length.

[turtsoup]

Burk, thank you for that.  I would imagine my alignment, like other things, is awful.  This year i've had the least amount of range time so far than the past few so i'm certain i need to clean some stuff up.  thank you sir 

[turtsoup]

if i cut a half inch off that tensei orange, will it mess with the counterbalance?  I do have an extra weight for the ping head but 12g would be too much for half inch i believe

[Jeff58]

It’s not the club. You’re stuck in one of the best sales traps in golf. To be consistent, your driver and iron setups must be consistently different. If you practice mostly (or worse, entirely) irons and are successful, you’ll conclude that it’s the driver rather than your swing, since you’re swinging well.

My gimmick is to be my own coach. I give myself keys and verify positions every time. Otherwise, I tend to revert to a more “iron-like” setup, which is likely what you’re doing.

[glk]

It is your swing.       One of my buddies used to lean the shaft so much he’d hit his 8i to our 6i but his driver was sameor shorter and a low screamer - he ended up playing with a 15* driver and even that didn’t help much either.  And oh he was brutal out of bunkers.      So it happens guys can bomb driver but be average with irons  (and really short and high with wedge) seen that too.

 

swing weight is not the weight of the club but a measure of head weight feel in the swing - basically the closer the center of mass of the club is to the head the heavier the swing weight.  A good fitter will take this into consideration when builder or modifying clubs.   So you can have two clubs that weight the same but have different swing weights.    Certainly can affect tempo and having a good fit swing weight can improve the swing versus a poor fit.

Edited May 5, 2021 by glk

[getitdaily]

Dang henrik... your driver woes have brought you all the way to here?

 

Without a driver swing video or driver fitting data then a fix is a crap shoot. 

[Krt22]

2 hours ago, turtsoup said:

Oh I agree with you completely.  I'm sure my AoA with driver is horrendous and normally my strikes are either low or towards the toe.  Def dont think you're being a jerk, just honest.  Irons and wedges are my strong suit which stems from hitting down on the ball.  With the ball flight i'm seeing on 3 wood, i'd imagine i'm also hitting down on it quite a bit.  Transfer that to driver and its a no go.  Definitely agree with you there.  Think i'm definitely shopping for fun because its the clubs fault and not mine, correct?  Lol, thank you for your reply

If you are striking it low on the face it is likely an AoA issue, but possibly the opposite of what you think. Low strikes are more common with people who's AoA is too much up, not the other way around. If you are tilting too much in an attempt to hit up on it, you have to pull the club through impact to get it to the ball which can result in low and toe strikes (also to avoid the drop kick). When you tilt too much you also lose face control so can hit it just about anywhere.  Without a video of the swing it's a crap shoot what is going on. If you want to make a measurable change you need to fix the core issue

[turtsoup]

Henrik lol.  Yeah really.  Yep, i get it.  Zero information with no conclusion.  Appreciate yall just listening and bouncing some stuff off of me.  I'll work on it.  thanks again 

[mgoblue83]

Tee the ball SUPER low (barely above the grass), move the ball back in your stance a bit and hit down on it like a 3w or iron. Taking a little divot is OK if you don't mind some scratches on your club.

 

Once you start flushing it at your target GRADUALLY increase the tee height and move it forward until you find the sweet spot of launch/direction.

[jomatty]

For what it is worth I would th8nk that a low spin head would likely exasperate the issues.  It may add some distance but if your spraying it already I would think it might really make it unplayable.  I’d buy a sim2 max and get to work at the range...

[Cwebb]

You really should have the actual loft measured for the head/heads that you don't hit as far as your 3 wood.  Then try other heads that have lower lofts.  Hopefully those measured as well.

 

Don't be afraid to try what seems like "too low a loft".  Most of them have more actual loft than what is stamped on them

[tastywaves]

4 hours ago, Golfah said:

I completely changed my driver game just by playing with tee height.  

This was a big thing for me as well. I got caught in the "tee it high and let it fly" mindset and also having the ball probably a little too far forward in my stance. As someone else mentioned, I started by teeing it low and more middle stance and working my way forward and discovered that a lower tee height for my driver decreased spin, gave me a better and more consistent launch, and helped me find the center more often. Good luck op 

[turtsoup]

Thanks again gents 

[jl923]

Is your driver fitted? I like to take slow practice swings with a mirror and see the swing arc. Specifically the impact zone. Is it level or more steep. I strive to have the club traveling on a mostly level plane through the impact zone. If my legs get quick I see the face is open. If my takeaway is bad, I start hitting the ground with my driver practice swing. 

[aramirez24]

3 hours ago, Jeff58 said:

It’s not the club. You’re stuck in one of the best sales traps in golf. To be consistent, your driver and iron setups must be consistently different. If you practice mostly (or worse, entirely) irons and are successful, you’ll conclude that it’s the driver rather than your swing, since you’re swinging well.

My gimmick is to be my own coach. I give myself keys and verify positions every time. Otherwise, I tend to revert to a more “iron-like” setup, which is likely what you’re doing.

This is it right here. Once I figured out my driver set up it was night and day different. I can finally step on the box with some confidence. 

[Barfolomew]

Is the shaft too soft for you? 

 

I could prob hit a softer Stiff shaft further but always play a 70TX shaft for accuracy... as distance aint an issue (secret brag lol)

[turtsoup]

I dont think its soft. I believe it's definitely me. I did notice Sunday that on the single tee shot I absolutely hammered, the ball seemed more back in my stance. Could be too far up cause me to slide or catch it on the bottom. Def going to pay more attention to that in the near days 

[ltom]

I had the same experience, 3 wood going same distance as driver. 

I've gone thru alot of instruction but highly recommend this kindle book.  It cost $6.99.  It has really helped my driving.

"Drive like the pros" by Michael Neff

Edited May 5, 2021 by ltom