Sandbagging golf buddy....

[platgof]

39 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

 

A little too esoteric for you?

 

Bets are off!

 

 

I'm sure you'll need to look that word up, huh?

 

[Loki]

On 7/23/2021 at 3:48 PM, Murphy76 said:

 

Could I ask how much money is at stake? 

 

What's the buy-in?

 

 

 

Actually, the money involved isn't an issue. It's how many points they win. Multimillionaires will play for quarters...as it isn't about taking someone's money, it's about taking the money, not the amount. 

[farmer]

Next thing will be this guy jingling change while you're putting, or roll-out starts during your swing.  Sandbagging is another phrase for "cheating".  Even playing for beers, this would bug me to no end.  I wouldn't out him to the world, but we would have to come to some understanding before I'd ever pay him a dime.

[Mudguard]

Surely this is as easy as announcing to the group when the card doesn't go in?

Hey Jim you played with us last week, why hasn't your 71 gone in?

Oh I haven't got round to it.

No problem, you're out of the match until your handicap catches up. 

 

[Murphy76]

On 7/23/2021 at 10:31 PM, Soloman1 said:

Most matches are won or lost before the first ball is hit.

 

 

 

Thank you Sun Tzu.  

 

Gordon Gekko will learn from you.

 

[Murphy76]

2 hours ago, Mudguard said:

Surely this is as easy as announcing to the group when the card doesn't go in?

Hey Jim you played with us last week, why hasn't your 71 gone in?

 

 

I Agree completely.  Just stop calling me Shirley.........

[Murphy76]

4 hours ago, Loki said:

Actually, the money involved isn't an issue. It's how many points they win. Multimillionaires will play for quarters...as it isn't about taking someone's money, it's about taking the money, not the amount. 

 

According to the OP, this is a money game.  The point is, the amount matters.  

 

If this was a nickle-a-hole game, who cares?  Fluff-yer-lie and enjoy the weather.  

 

If this is a round that determines if a guy's mortgage payment is on time, things matter a lot more.   

 

It happens more often than you think.....

[GrandStranded]

On 7/23/2021 at 3:53 PM, puttnforthe8 said:

You are fine...and furthermore, I would simply keep a separate HC for your games.  It's not that hard to do - there are apps for it; a simple excel sheet.

 

Use Grint or 18 birdies and score your matched in the app and use the HC generated based on only your games.

This.

Or you can play a quota game based on the scores within your group. If you still have access to the groups last 4-5 scores, you can implement it immediately.

[ArtMBgolf]

You could have group handicaps, using scores from group play.   
Or you could handicap the sandbagger off of his group scores.   
Or sandbagger isn't in the matches. 
 
You are correct in addressing the situation.     

[abenjami]

It sounds pretty bad from reading the OP.  But I would make 100% sure before doing anything.

 

Golf is a strange game.  The level of (non) consistency for amateurs is all over the board, and the handicapping system is far from perfect.

 

I have a good friend who is a legit 6.  He has days you would call him a sandbagger and others where you'd be calling him a double-digit liar.

 

I played in a multi-day tournament several years ago.  One day was match play with handicaps.  I was a 9 at the time and smoked my opponent 8 and 7.  I was accused of sandbagging, to which I replied look at the scorecard.  I shot an 82 which is very close to my handicap but your 95 or whatever was a terrible round by you.

 

Also realize people deal with pressure differently.  We all establish our handicaps mostly playing rounds that don't count.  Some people play better in tournaments or when money is on the line, others play much worse.

 

But here's a potential solution.  Assuming you play with this guy frequently enough, save the scorecards for 10 or 20 rounds.  Then plug those into a handicap calculator and tell him that's his new number.

[denkea]

8 hours ago, abenjami said:

But here's a potential solution.  Assuming you play with this guy frequently enough, save the scorecards for 10 or 20 rounds.  Then plug those into a handicap calculator and tell him that's his new number.

And if you do that you just might as well do that for all the members of your group as only doing it for one would probably bring on problems.

[naval2006]

I know a bunch that play almost every day and they always work out the shots per round on the first tee.  They are tough as nails on the tee and once they're settled they go really smooth.  If someone gets invited and the guys running these matches don't know the golfer well, they check hdc and kind of attest their ability once or twice before officially tagging them.  They are like into an anti-sandbagging crusade, and all for the money lol.

[MountainKing]

On 7/23/2021 at 1:03 PM, ZA206 said:

One of the guys is a really fun guy to hang out with and play with

 

 

 

Every post like this seems to contain a section like this.  If he's taking you guys for money, he's not a good guy and I would stop associating with him regardless of how fun he is.   This type of post is a perfect reason to why I won't play anyway but straight up or play in any events that involve a handicap. 

Edited July 26, 2021 by MountainKing

[oikos1]

8 hours ago, naval2006 said:

I know a bunch that play almost every day and they always work out the shots per round on the first tee.  They are tough as nails on the tee and once they're settled they go really smooth.  If someone gets invited and the guys running these matches don't know the golfer well, they check hdc and kind of attest their ability once or twice before officially tagging them.  They are like into an anti-sandbagging crusade, and all for the money lol.

^^^This.  If you're playing for money, you better know something about your opponent and the kind of game they have rather than putting your trust in a handicapping "honor system".

[Carl Spackler3]

On 7/23/2021 at 2:03 PM, ZA206 said:

I typically play with a group of 7 or so other guys that belong to private clubs in the area, and we rotate playing money matches at each others clubs. One of the guys is a really fun guy to hang out with and play with, but he is a confirmed sandbagger. We always play for money in this group and everyone is straight up about their handicaps except this one guy. 

 

I called him out on our text threads about it (there are probably 4 instances over the last 12 months where he shot mid 70's on a tough course and cleaned our clocks, but never posted the rounds).  In fact, we played at a really tough course in the spring and his differential in GHIN for the round was a +.3!!! He always blows it off and I seem to be the only one in our group who "gets" that he's sandbagging (none of them look at the GHIN app apparently). I look up his GHIN and his lowest posted scores are ALWAYS in the low-mid 80's.... that's BS!

 

He's like a 9 index in GHIN (I'm around a 3 to 4 index) and I'm typically giving him 5 or 6 strokes a round. I think the other guys in our group are all around 9-13 indexes so they think they are playing even with him or are still getting one or two pops off him and they seem to be OK with having their heads in the sand.

 

Anyone else have experience in this situation? I'm fairly confident that sandbagging is an epidemic at his home club (I've played with some of his crew there) and he's probably just doing it to even the playing field at his home course, but it's still BS.

 

I told the rest of our guys that from now on, we are deciding his handicap for him on the first tee and if he doesn't like it, he doesn't have to be a part of the money games. Am I being too big of a jerk on this? I don't feel like I am, but wanted to know the opinion of the hive...

 

-ZA

 

 

I have a thing about money matches. Integrity to me is any betting you better be straight up. Sandbag me all you want if we play for a beer. I don’t think you’re wrong at all.

[charli]

Use the grint and start a new index when playing him. 

[Andygolderson]

Just continue to play, but don't put any money to it. Eventually, he'll get it: "why you don't play for money anymore", then you can ask why he doesn't post all his scores.

 

I've had some similar experience, I was peer pressured into some "small bets". I average about 100 at the minute and one of the guys plays <80 and i got 6 strokes from him over 18 holes - which is the max the group give apparently. I just never matched with him again, or i didn't take part in the bet if i did, since i knew i'm always just givig my money to him. With the other guys, they're also better than they claim, but nobody has a real validated handicap and it's really subjective to "make a deal" on who owes who how many strokes.

Unless you've got any real group handicap, or some similar kind of rating in place between yourselves that you can maintain, then you don't rely on posting cards and it becomes a moving average depending on your previous performance.

By doing in this way, it should become more even over time if you're playing a stable group of players each week or month.