Dr Kwon

[TexasTurf]

Ok swing if you have zero upper body strength. Zero control at impact if things get out of sorts.

[blues72]

22 hours ago, Billywhizz said:

I didn't know that active wrists stabilised the body? Dr Kwon said as you push the club towards the target with an active wrist action, the club pushes back on the body. That would require some force via the wrists on the club to have such an effect on the body's mass.

I found his comment really interesting.  When I actively focused on it, it did seem to have the intended affect.

[MK7Golf21]

41 minutes ago, blues72 said:

I found his comment really interesting.  When I actively focused on it, it did seem to have the intended affect.

Edited March 27, 2022 by MK7Golf21

[Golfbeat]

I think this is the best so far. Many of us can relate to the student I am sure.

 

 

 

[zacgolf]

Some more drills..

 

 

[Duffer Mark]

6 hours ago, zacgolf said:

Some more drills..

 

 

I’m having trouble feeling swing being generated by the pushing/kicking the ground with the left leg. 

[Nard_S]

1 hour ago, Duffer Mark said:

I’m having trouble feeling swing being generated by the pushing/kicking the ground with the left leg. 

The lead leg is the wall you throw your swing into. Plant it and push lead hip back away from target line.

[Krt22]

1 hour ago, Duffer Mark said:

I’m having trouble feeling swing being generated by the pushing/kicking the ground with the left leg. 

That is likely because it is something you don't do now. There is also a lot to be said about perceived "power generation". What feels most powerful is often wasted motion 

[MrHateCoffee]

There's a piece of the Dr. Kwon swing I'm having trouble with.  Instead of a push off of one leg to initiate the shift, I find myself doing more of a weight shift/psuedo stepping motion.  For instance to initiate my swing, I basically step in place with my trail foot while shifting weight to my right side.  (I'm a RH player)  I don't push off my lead foot.  I do the reverse in the downswing, doing a step with my lead foot and shifting my weight back to my lead side.  I don't push off my trail side.  At least not a conscious push.

 

I've been having decent success doing this and using the body to guide the swing.  Am I the only one with this problem?  When I try to purposefully introduce a push off my foot it feels super weird and my timing gets thrown completely off.

[zacgolf]

6 hours ago, Duffer Mark said:

I’m having trouble feeling swing being generated by the pushing/kicking the ground with the left leg. 

 

[zacgolf]

Another drill for this Marcus 

 

 

[Nels55]

3 hours ago, MrHateCoffee said:

There's a piece of the Dr. Kwon swing I'm having trouble with.  Instead of a push off of one leg to initiate the shift, I find myself doing more of a weight shift/psuedo stepping motion.  For instance to initiate my swing, I basically step in place with my trail foot while shifting weight to my right side.  (I'm a RH player)  I don't push off my lead foot.  I do the reverse in the downswing, doing a step with my lead foot and shifting my weight back to my lead side.  I don't push off my trail side.  At least not a conscious push.

 

I've been having decent success doing this and using the body to guide the swing.  Am I the only one with this problem?  When I try to purposefully introduce a push off my foot it feels super weird and my timing gets thrown completely off.

If you are shifting correctly then I believe that you have to be pushing off of the opposite foot.  I don't see any other way to get the mass moving?  I would say that the purpose of the step, kettlebell and rope drills is to get the swing including the push off to happen without thinking about it. 

 

Hmmm, I can say that while doing the drills I can feel the push happening if I focus on it but trying to intentionally push with either foot is not something that works very well for me either.

[Simpsonia]

14 hours ago, Nard_S said:

The lead leg is the wall you throw your swing into. Plant it and push lead hip back away from target line.

 

Lots of ways to visualize it, though they are often unique to the person. I visualize the lead leg as a post (like the steel post that carries the beam in your basement). It takes and carries all of the pressure and force from the downward and forward momentum of the swing, and allows you to go harder without tipping over forwards (like what Sasho mentioned in the video above). Rather than feeling pressure in the heel, I like to feel pressure from my hip socket through to my heel. Because if it's in my hip socket, I know I have a stable post to rotate around. Similar feeling to a hockey stop with skates or skis (though slightly different direction since you're not leading with the heel).

 

It's been said before, but the golf swing can be analogized to the slapshot in hockey. Just imagine the counter-force that is needed from the spine through the hips through the knee to the skate in the image below to stop the player from just toppling over forwards. 

 

Edited March 29, 2022 by Simpsonia

[Nard_S]

15 minutes ago, Simpsonia said:

It's been said before, but the golf swing can be analogized to the slapshot in hockey. Just imagine the counter-force that is needed from the spine through the hips through the knee to the skate in the image below to stop the player from just toppling over forwards

Yup.

 

I've seen videos with pressure plates where max lead foot pressure occurs when max downward acceleration of the hands are happening. Mind that it does not mean one pivots and spins out. Proper hip movement is key. Cannot be a swaying motion, more a stepping back or better a pulling back of lead side using foot against the ground as the brace. 

 

Shift-> Pressure->Clear Hip

[Simpsonia]

17 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

Yup.

 

I've seen videos with pressure plates where max lead foot pressure occurs when max downward acceleration of the hands are happening. Mind that it does not mean one pivots and spins out. Proper hip movement is key. Cannot be a swaying motion, more a stepping back or better a pulling back of lead side using foot against the ground as the brace. 

 

Shift-> Pressure->Clear Hip

 

This sequencing has been my biggest stumbling block because it really needs to all flow, and can't be as binary as step 1, step 2, step 3. As you said, you can't just sway the lead hip forward as part of the shift, you need to start pulling it back to near parallel before you start maxing the pressure on that lead side or else you kind of lock it into its current position and you EE (my biggest hurdle). 

[Nard_S]

5 minutes ago, Simpsonia said:

because it really needs to all flow,

I think the genius of Kwon is emphasizing the flow part, the pre-transition of lower ahead of upper. My take on ground force and such is to bundle it with proper hip movement. Because a directional efficiency is needed there, feel like Mike Malaska's method on hip movement says it best, it'as a step back motion, where the key is getting the hinging correct. That's what I always had wrong. The hinging. On back swing, hinge off lead and go deep with trail, on down swing, hinge off trail and go deep back with lead. I was always crashing lead hip into ball line on back swing, too much of that gets you in trouble. Hip depth allows upper body to get all things done without EE.

[Krt22]

1 hour ago, Simpsonia said:

 

This sequencing has been my biggest stumbling block because it really needs to all flow, and can't be as binary as step 1, step 2, step 3. As you said, you can't just sway the lead hip forward as part of the shift, you need to start pulling it back to near parallel before you start maxing the pressure on that lead side or else you kind of lock it into its current position and you EE (my biggest hurdle). 

Bingo. It's a kinematic sequence, you can't focus on just one segment. Viewing the swing statically is intrinsically flawed. In order to maximize the magnitude of the reaction forces, when you apply the initial force is just as important as the magnitude of that force

[Krt22]

13 minutes ago, Billywhizz said:

 

I'm not sure Dr Kwon is keen on the kinematic sequence that Dr Phil Cheetham and Dr Greg Rose advocate.

 

Look at this video below at 40:30 - 40:50 where he expects the timing of the peak angular velocities of the 'Pelvis/Thorax/Shoulder Line/Lead Arm'   to all occur at the same time when club shaft is vertical in downswing.

 

 

 

 

I did not mention a specific part of the swing. Every golf swing is a kinematic sequence, the better the swing the better the sequence (in general). When you are trying to improve, sometimes its easy to think of things statically when in reality they are dynamic Two swings in a static picture may look nearly the same, but dynamically they could be very different. For instance, getting a proper COP trace relies heavily on sequencing. In order to get the re-centering he talks about, you need to move properly in the take away and early backswing first.

 

The same goes maximizing the GRF going into the lead foot from transition into impact. We know that at some point you are supposed to extend into impact (which pairs with the GRF under the lead foot). In order to maximize this resultant GRF, good players extend in the backswing, regain flexion in the transition/down swing, then extend through impact. Bad players typically don't get this sequencing correct (if they did they wouldn't be bad for long)

[Duffer Mark]

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CVn1axEDHif/?utm_medium=copy_link

 

This exaggerated shift drill from Monte looks pretty good. I'm liking the results so far.

[zacgolf]

A good video,  backswing and braking force..

Maybe of interest…

 

 

[Rdailey9108]

6 hours ago, zacgolf said:

A good video,  backswing and braking force..

Maybe of interest…

 

 

Drew makes hitting 7 iron 200+ look effortless. The sound sounds pretty crazy 

[Soloman1]

Kinematics is motion without consideration of forces. Defining a “good” sequence is a little like defining “good” food. We are biased to think that symmetry is good in everything.

 

I prefer to call it a rotational sequence, since it only measures rotational velocities.

 

I used to give a presentation to instructors with 10 examples mixed with tour player and amateur sequences and ask them to write “pro” or “no” for each example. No one ever got more than half right.

 

There were some “beautiful” sequences of 18 handicaps, and “ugly” sequences for tour winners.

 

The pro swing has changed since the birth of the idea that symmetry in the sequence is the most efficient. The only common thread among pros is that the pelvis transitions first. The rest is all over the place.

 

As much as people would like to be able to show some elegantly simple, symmetrical ideal, golfers continue to be messy.

[sprcoop]

18 hours ago, Duffer Mark said:

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CVn1axEDHif/?utm_medium=copy_link

 

This exaggerated shift drill from Monte looks pretty good. I'm liking the results so far.

Is that exaggerated or just correct?  He only shifts a couple inches back and never past lead foot forward.  I don't know that I would call that exaggerated.

 

Of course when I do it it feels exaggerated because I don't shift towards lead foot early enough or far enough.

[Duffer Mark]

@sprcoop, I called it exaggerated because that's what Monte calls it which you can see at the top of the video. 🙂

[Soloman1]

2 hours ago, Billywhizz said:

 

I tend to agree as I was almost sold on the idea of the kinematic sequence and transfer of energy from proximal to distal like the cracking of a whip but when I looked at these graphs by Dr Greg Rose , they don't follow a 'summation' pattern.  The magnitudes of the angular velocities follow some proximal-distal pattern but the timing of the peaks don't.

 

 

Luke Donald, Jordan Spieth and possibly Ernie Els seem to fit the pattern where pelvis peaks first, ribcage next and then lead arm but the others don't.

 

Ben Crane - pelvis , ribcage & arm together

Corey Pavin-pelvis, arm, ribcage

Ricky Fowler- pelvis, arm, ribcage

Rory McIlroy - pelvis & ribcage together, arm

Grant Waite- pelvis & ribcage together, arm

JB Holms - pelvis & ribcage & arm together

Jim Furyk - pelvis, ribcage & arm together

Zach Johnson- ribcage  & arm together , pelvis

Steve Stricker -pelvis, ribcage & arm together

 

The timing between peaks is for incredible short time periods so do they have much significance? 

 

Is there stretch-shorten happening between pelvis & ribcage, ribcage & shoulders , shoulders & wrist? I suspect the wrist will have some stretch shorten for all the golfers because of the larger delay between peak arm speed and clubhead speed.

 

Is each segment using the previous segment as a platform to add angular acceleration? The graphs don't seem to suggest that its happening in a pure proximal-distal pattern for many of them.

 

So does this mean we shouldn't strive to have the kinematic sequences advocated by Dr Phil Cheetham and Dr Greg Rose?  Not really sure as Dr Kwon seems to favour peaking of the  pelvis/ribcage/arms together by club shaft vertical.  Seems to be a difference of opinion between the golf scientists unless I'm misinterpreting what I've seen and read.

 

Your correct that human golfers are messy and Corey Pavin and Zach Johnson won majors in spite of their 'non-pure' kinematic sequences.

 

 

To muddy the waters more about sequencing, the downswing starts with the left ankle, not the pelvis, for most male pros. Low handicap male amateurs start more with the right ankle, high handicap males start more with the left knee and female pros start more with the pelvis.

 

The “Kinematic” Sequence they market didn’t even consider the lower body.

[Daniel Eason]

Im finding you need to focus on hip turn with this sequence. 

 

I've just felt on my last range session the separation part drew talks about, left push>arms>turn into hip with pelvis (Internal rotation)....reverse for downswing.

I think @Simpsonia mentioned you need to feel in the hips and this is what im finding. 

The drill he does with a couple of therabands and a student is the feel for this....

[MPStrat]

Once golfers learn that the backswing starts before the club moves and they need to start positioning themselves for the downswing at p2, I believe the talk of “what starts first” in the downswing becomes a lot less interesting and relevant. 

[Nels55]

This is pretty interesting:

 

[Hilts1969]

13 hours ago, Soloman1 said:

 

 

To muddy the waters more about sequencing, the downswing starts with the left ankle, not the pelvis, for most male pros. Low handicap male amateurs start more with the right ankle, high handicap males start more with the left knee and female pros start more with the pelvis.

 

The “Kinematic” Sequence they market didn’t even consider the lower body.

 

The ankle move is really for amateurs, pros start with external rotation of the little toe.

 

That's the lead foot obviously, do that on the trail foot and boy that can get messy

[BdaGolfer]

The scratch golfer sequence looks like Pete Cowans spiral staircase. From the above I would say that only the scratch golfer has re-centered and shifted far enough left to start the motion at the left ankle - everyone else is still trying to get there.