Pete Cowen : "Worlds BEST golf coach TRANSFORMS my game in 25 MINUTES!!"

[Fuscinator]

On 3/25/2022 at 11:12 AM, KD1 said:

2) When he keeps talking about your should and shoulder muscles he's referring to the triceps, right?

 

The movement he was looking for moved the left shoulder and arm more as a unit, so he was likely talking about the lats and obliques (and whichever other muscles contribute to rotation), even though I think he said "shoulder muscles".

The triceps primarily extend the elbow.

 

When he was talking about gravity, I was thinking he meant gravity's effect on the golfer, not the swing directly. So, gravity makes the golfer feel weird and golfer then does something nutty to his swing in overreaction.

 

I've not watched a whole lot of his videos, but am I right in thinking he seems to prefer the butterfly grip?

[JungleJimbo]

37 minutes ago, mudge said:

I saw that video too. Maybe there’s some sort of initiation where Pete goes into what fade/draw pressure means. Same for when he talks about fade/draw spirals in the shoulders, or spring loading the shoulders because the ball is on the ground.

 

1 hour ago, hammersia said:

I still don't get it. Cowan on this video said "more centred with the wedges" and "open quicker for more fade, ?pressure", and that's it really.

10G for that. 

 

I've watched a lot of coaches at The Open and it's similar, you're just paying someone to say"nice shot" and tell you how great you are. 

 

12 minutes ago, Fuscinator said:

The movement he was looking for moved the left shoulder and arm more as a unit, so he was likely talking about the lats and obliques (and whichever other muscles contribute to rotation), even though I think he said "shoulder muscles".

The triceps primarily extend the elbow.

 

When he was talking about gravity, I was thinking he meant gravity's effect on the golfer, not the swing directly. So, gravity makes the golfer feel weird and golfer then does something nutty to his swing in overreaction.

 

I've not watched a whole lot of his videos, but am I right in thinking he seems to prefer the butterfly grip?

I found this video of Pete Cowan = more clear in his instruction, vs the James Robinson video.
(didn't realise Pete Cowan has his own Youtube channel, until today!)
 

 

[Fuscinator]

18 minutes ago, JungleJimbo said:

 

 

I found this video of Pete Cowan = more clear in his instruction, vs the James Robinson video.
(didn't realise Pete Cowan has his own Youtube channel, until today!)
 

 

Right, his "spiral staircase"! I remember the first time I heard him mention it, also Stenson mentioning it, even though he speaks of muscles, it strikes me more that he's talking about the posterior fascial train that goes up from the bottom of the lead heel, crosses over in the back (thorocolumbar fascia), and connects to the trail shoulder. 

Obviously, muscle and connective tissue are involved in all movements, but I wonder if his concept involves more connective tissue properties than muscular. If so, it relates well to what Kelvin Miyahira discussed in this article -

http://kelvinmiyahiragolf-articles.com/index.php/2015-05-muscle-power-golf-not

[sg91]

1 hour ago, mudge said:

I saw that video too. Maybe there’s some sort of initiation where Pete goes into what fade/draw pressure means. Same for when he talks about fade/draw spirals in the shoulders, or spring loading the shoulders because the ball is on the ground.

Pieters has been working with Cowen since he was a 14 year old, so everything is already established by this point

[bonvivantva]

On 3/25/2022 at 4:44 PM, Notashank said:

I watched it 3 times and have no idea what he means. 

 

In my experience, really well regarded and accomplished coaches are good at teaching experts, but are not nearly as effective when it comes to teaching beginner/average golfers.  Just look at how fast Cowen talks and how confused the student seems to be the whole lesson.  The poor guy is totally lost.  He doesn't have enough of a conceptual baseline or even the shared terminology to keep up.  A 30 minute lesson to explain that the club can fall more naturally, or instead be manipulated into position resulting in inconsistency.  Then the student at least gets some feels for a draw vs fade.  I would be surprised if that flat shoulder turn doesn't persist, especially since the cause of it was not really discussed nor were any drills suggested to mitigate it.

[bonvivantva]

On 3/25/2022 at 4:44 PM, Notashank said:

I watched it 3 times and have no idea what he means. 

 

In my experience, really well regarded and accomplished coaches are good at teaching experts, but are not nearly as effective when it comes to teaching beginner/average golfers.  Just look at how fast Cowen talks and how confused the student seems to be the whole lesson.  The poor guy is totally lost.  He doesn't have enough of a conceptual baseline or even the shared terminology to keep up.  A 30 minute lesson to explain that the club can fall more naturally, or instead be manipulated into position resulting in inconsistency.  Then the student at least gets some feels for a draw vs fade.  I would be surprised if that flat shoulder turn doesn't persist, especially since the cause of it was not really discussed nor were any drills suggested to mitigate it.

[bonvivantva]

On 3/25/2022 at 4:44 PM, Notashank said:

I watched it 3 times and have no idea what he means. 

 

In my experience, really well regarded and accomplished coaches are good at teaching experts, but are not nearly as effective when it comes to teaching beginner/average golfers.  Just look at how fast Cowen talks and how confused the student seems to be the whole lesson.  The poor guy is totally lost.  He doesn't have enough of a conceptual baseline or even the shared terminology to keep up.  A 30 minute lesson to explain that the club can fall more naturally, or instead be manipulated into position resulting in inconsistency.  Then the student at least gets some feels for a draw vs fade.  I would be surprised if that flat shoulder turn doesn't persist, especially since the cause of it was not really discussed nor were any drills suggested to mitigate it.

[GungHoGolf]

Pete's YouTube channel looks more like a marketing placeholder than anything - 5 videos uploaded 11 months ago, and nothing since.

 

These three videos are the longest-form content I've been able to find from him. I won't lead the jury with my comments on them:

 

 

 

 

[mudge]

1 hour ago, sg91 said:

Pieters has been working with Cowen since he was a 14 year old, so everything is already established by this point

I wasn’t only talking about what I’ve heard him say in the Pieters vid. I’m including what I’ve heard him say in a clip from a clinic.

[CasualLie]

I can see how a beginner in terms of instruction (i.e. someone who has not taken a lot of lessons or studied swing theories for awhile) would be lost with what Cowen is saying in the video, but I found it very consistent with what I have seen with Monte / AMG / Malaska (and I am sure others I am not familiar with).  There's one thing Cowen does in watching Robinson's swing very early that is a dead giveaway he has a sharp eye and a lot of depth of golf swing knowledge.  I would love to take an hour lesson from Pete.

 

 

[CasualLie]

I am going to guess, like many instructors, Cowen has refined his ideas and understanding since those three YouTube videos above and he's delivering an "updated" message.  He's looking much younger/thinner in those videos.

[DLiver]

I wanted to like it, but based on that vid alone, I would say he is the definition of a method teacher (not that there's anything wrong with that). However watching some of his other vids, I get a different impression.

 

I do have to admit that I really dislike any kind of teacher that is always asking you questions that you don't know the answers to.

[Hawkeye77]

28 minutes ago, DLiver said:

I wanted to like it, but based on that vid alone, I would say he is the definition of a method teacher (not that there's anything wrong with that). However watching some of his other vids, I get a different impression.

 

I do have to admit that I really dislike any kind of teacher that is always asking you questions that you don't know the answers to.

Trying to get students to work things out is a pretty important part of most learning, IMO.

[oz dee cee]

I really can’t handle Pete Cowen. I’m sure he knows what he’s talking about and is a good coach for some but he’s not for me. He talks in riddles, smoke and mirrors and makes himself sound maybe better than he really is. But I’m on golfwrx, he earns millions. 🤷‍♂️ 

[DLiver]

2 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Trying to get students to work things out is a pretty important part of most learning, IMO.

True, but asking questions where the student is like a deer in the headlights guessing at what the instructor wants to hear doesn't further learning in my opinion. Instead of asking something like "what's the most important move from the top of the backswing?" and leaving the student to squirm and guess, why not just tell the student what the answer is and explain why.

[sjn1]

15 hours ago, CasualLie said:

I am going to guess, like many instructors, Cowen has refined his ideas and understanding since those three YouTube videos above and he's delivering an "updated" message.  He's looking much younger/thinner in those videos.

yep, these videos are  extracts from his DVD , which was released in 2006 or 2007 .  the dvd didn't have anythign about 'loading the shoulders'.

Edited March 30, 2022 by sjn1
typo

[airjammer]

19 hours ago, bonvivantva said:

 

In my experience, really well regarded and accomplished coaches are good at teaching experts, but are not nearly as effective when it comes to teaching beginner/average golfers.  Just look at how fast Cowen talks and how confused the student seems to be the whole lesson.  The poor guy is totally lost.  He doesn't have enough of a conceptual baseline or even the shared terminology to keep up.  A 30 minute lesson to explain that the club can fall more naturally, or instead be manipulated into position resulting in inconsistency.  Then the student at least gets some feels for a draw vs fade.  I would be surprised if that flat shoulder turn doesn't persist, especially since the cause of it was not really discussed nor were any drills suggested to mitigate it.

You are right about elite coaches and average golfers…Chris mason has said the same thing whenever he did a lesson giveaway and the golfer who won it was a beginner. He said it had been about 10 years since he taught a beginner and had to learn how to effectively coach someone at that level. 

[Hawkeye77]

3 hours ago, sjn1 said:

yep, these videos are  extracts from his DVD , which was released in 2006 or 2007 .  the dvd didn't have anythign about 'loading the shoulders'.

Most certainly does, just explained, and in detail, without simply saying "loading the shoulders".  Different ways of saying the same thing, but it's in there.

 

 

[bonvivantva]

1 hour ago, airjammer said:

You are right about elite coaches and average golfers…Chris mason has said the same thing whenever he did a lesson giveaway and the golfer who won it was a beginner. He said it had been about 10 years since he taught a beginner and had to learn how to effectively coach someone at that level. 

 

The first instructor I ever went to as about a 16 handicap, was a younger guy who had been recognized for his coaching with juniors.  He was great, referenced youtube generation instructors, really took the time to make sure I understood what he was trying to teach me.  A few years later he left the place where I was taking lessons, so I found a new instructor.  #2 instructor in my state per golf digest.  He could name drop tour players he'd coached, but I only managed to get worse with him.  I think his teaching style was a fine fit for me, but I got the feeling that I was his only student working on an ott path, or poor contact.  It was like going to a doctor with the wrong specialty.  Sure they're a doctor, but they just can't help.

[tacklingdummy]

Great lesson. One of the better lessons I have seen. The lesson sounds very technical, but if you break it down, it is just a couple of micro tweaks that can have some macro improvements. A few key points to work on. 

[moehogan]

6 minutes ago, tacklingdummy said:

Great lesson. One of the better lessons I have seen. The lesson sounds very technical, but if you break it down, it is just a couple of micro tweaks that can have some macro improvements. A few key points to work on. 

Agree. Manage the face, then the path.

[Divot License]

On 3/29/2022 at 2:08 PM, hammersia said:

I still don't get it. Cowan on this video said "more centred with the wedges" and "open quicker for more fade, ?pressure", and that's it really.

10G for that. 

 

I've watched a lot of coaches at The Open and it's similar, you're just paying someone to say"nice shot" and tell you how great you are. 

That video of Cowen and Peters on the range is not meant as an instruction piece. 

 

It is just a glimpse into the conversation on the range that the two of them had. I'm sure Peters understands exactly what Cowen is talking about as they've worked together forever. 

 

Also Cowen is famous for his payment policy. He only takes 4% of players winning only if they finish in the top10 of an event.  

[ericschlukebir]

I thought the opposing grip pressure to stabilize the face was interesting.  Played with that a bit, and it seemed to improve contact.  The stuff about loading for a draw/fade seemed to make sense, but I don't think it wasn't shown very clearly.  I'd have liked to see that described in more detail, but I guess that wasn't what they were trying to do.  

[MattyO1984]

Trying to decide whether I want to watch this or not. Having to listen to James Robinson is usually something that I would consider a punishment as opposed to an enjoyable pastime.

[JungleJimbo]

2 minutes ago, MattyO1984 said:

Trying to decide whether I want to watch this or not. Having to listen to James Robinson is usually something that I would consider a punishment as opposed to an enjoyable pastime.

@MattyO1984: Why Not? Is it because you're worried that James Robinson's persistent motto
"Let's Do It... and Let's Do it Now!" will get stuck in your head? 🙉

😬🚫🤬

[MattyO1984]

13 minutes ago, JungleJimbo said:

@MattyO1984: Why Not? Is it because you're worried that James Robinson's persistent motto
"Let's Do It... and Let's Do it Now!" will get stuck in your head? 🙉

😬🚫🤬

 

Haha, I just grudge that even my one view might contribute to his making money through YouTube as opposed to anything else. I heard that he had a lifestyle channel in addition to this golf channel these days…no thank you 🤢 

[gentles]

4 hours ago, MattyO1984 said:

Trying to decide whether I want to watch this or not. Having to listen to James Robinson is usually something that I would consider a punishment as opposed to an enjoyable pastime.

agree…of all the British golf YouTubers out there he seems to irk me the most. it’s the click bait titles more than anything, but I guess you gotta pay the bills so I respect the hustle!

 

 

[Janik]

A lot of BS coming from Cowen;

 

Using ‘natural forces’ ie gravity to your advantage. Lift your club head up and let it drop due to gravity. It takes ages compared to how fast it drops during a golf swing. Pure spoof. 
 

His Physics lesson on opposing forces creating stability. The arms and wrists rotate and hinge during a golf swing. Opposing forces causing stability in reality would mean the club doesn’t rotate at all. Again pure spoof. 

[TexasTurf]

4 hours ago, badhabit said:

 

Unless one knows how to move the club out from its natural orbit tendency routing from proximal seeking distal to distal finding proximal it would be difficult for many to appreciate, and understand, how the process works using rotation and opposing forces through the strike.   It's not that the club doesn't rotate, it's how it's rotating that is key.  Cowen knows. 

What would you advise for someone who's natural orbit tendency is distal seeking proximal. On backswing and downswing. 

[isitour]

I will admit I actually Like James Robinson's channel. He seems to have a lot of passion for the game. I watched the video several times and it just reinforced my skepticism for these "instructors" to the stars. I believe he said to James that only reason he is good at golf is that he(James) has very good hand to eye coordination. Well, when you break it down, Isn't that what its all about? Mr Cowen makes excellent points and no doubt James and anyone else would benefit from his knowledge.

My Favorite instruction is on Instagram and TikTok. The Instructor is Kawamura28. Best part is ,he doesn't say a word. He reinforces one key move. Watch his swing,then again and again. Hot Butter!

Edited April 3, 2022 by isitour
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