LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[2bGood]

2 hours ago, Golferpaul said:

I said top tier.  So, Stuart Appleby (17 wins), Bruce Crampton (44), Kel Nagle (86), David Graham (32 and 2 majors), Elkington (17 and one major), Ogilvy (12 and one major), Scott (29 and one major), Day (16 and one major), and Norman (88 and two majors).

 

There at maybe 10 Australians better than any Canadian ever.

Who would be the 10 Ausies who have more than 15 wins and a Major?

 

[Shilgy]

1 hour ago, Muffy said:

It is not fair because it is retroactive.  

According to the USGA it’s not…everyone may have assumed the criteria would stay the same so many assumed Gooch was in.  The “clarification “ says “qualified for” and “eligible for” .   Gooch was not eligible.  Personally I think Aaron Wise…#31 in the standings…should have replaced him in the Tour Championship.

 

Bottom line is the guys that went bought the spiel being sold to them.  But Norman lied and told them the PGA Tour would do nothing and they would get ranking points.

 

OOPS!

[mitchl]

3 hours ago, idrive said:

“They had our latest response weeks ago and we haven’t heard back. They have made a bad assumption that this will be a quick process. It never has been. Every application has taken a year-plus as far as I’m aware.

“I can’t speculate (on how long it will take) because they have not responded. They may have to solve things as well, and it’s not clear whether they’re willing to.”

....SNIP...

So, the question is, how much longer do the Saudi's continue to burn money with absolutely nothing to show for it?

Perhaps LIV has not responded with a letter, but they have certainly responded.   Phil, Bryson, Greg and probably more have all come out with statements indicating that the OWGR has to rank them, or the majors have to pick another method to rank them.   Phil says it is easy, just look at who is good and give them invites, I think is his method.   

Also, what the man says also lines up with the reports of when the OWGR did last respond - while it was not publicized, the rumors were that the number of holes, the number of players is not at issue - here he indicates that can be solved with math.

What is the issue is relegation and promotion.   There has to be a way to play into the events - not for each one - likely no tour has that.   

But also, he indicates a conflict with the team aspect of that.   That certainly is an issue.   LIV has indicated that in the coming years that the individual play will be less significant than the team play.  Ok, well if that's the case, how do you rank them?
 

[Muffy]

3 hours ago, Shilgy said:

According to the USGA it’s not…everyone may have assumed the criteria would stay the same so many assumed Gooch was in.  The “clarification “ says “qualified for” and “eligible for” .   Gooch was not eligible.  Personally I think Aaron Wise…#31 in the standings…should have replaced him in the Tour Championship.

 

Bottom line is the guys that went bought the spiel being sold to them.  But Norman lied and told them the PGA Tour would do nothing and they would get ranking points.

 

OOPS!

Yes, fully agree.  
 

Gooch is no longer eligible for a FUTURE event.  For Phil to say it was retroactive is a misnomer, or a LIVism.

[idrive]

6 hours ago, Golferpaul said:

Actually, the majors have several criteria. One of which is OWGR.

 

Your point?

 

6 hours ago, Golferpaul said:

I said top tier.  So, Stuart Appleby (17 wins), Bruce Crampton (44), Kel Nagle (86), David Graham (32 and 2 majors), Elkington (17 and one major), Ogilvy (12 and one major), Scott (29 and one major), Day (16 and one major), and Norman (88 and two majors).

 

There at maybe 10 Australians better than any Canadian ever.

 

So. the point being?

 

I could pick on all of the players you've listed but I'll just use one example of your flawed, misguided post.

 

Kel Nagle - Won 2 PGA events - not the (86) that you've inferred.  Also won 1 Open and 1 Canadian open. The majority of those wins were on the Australasia tour. 

 

The Australasia tour is NOT "Top Tier" in relation to the PGAT.

 

Edited May 13, 2023 by idrive

[Shilgy]

3 hours ago, mitchl said:

Perhaps LIV has not responded with a letter, but they have certainly responded.   Phil, Bryson, Greg and probably more have all come out with statements indicating that the OWGR has to rank them, or the majors have to pick another method to rank them.   Phil says it is easy, just look at who is good and give them invites, I think is his method.   

Also, what the man says also lines up with the reports of when the OWGR did last respond - while it was not publicized, the rumors were that the number of holes, the number of players is not at issue - here he indicates that can be solved with math.

What is the issue is relegation and promotion.   There has to be a way to play into the events - not for each one - likely no tour has that.   

But also, he indicates a conflict with the team aspect of that.   That certainly is an issue.   LIV has indicated that in the coming years that the individual play will be less significant than the team play.  Ok, well if that's the case, how do you rank them?
 

Well gee, that’s easy…..just take the winning teams points and divide by four.  
 

Every response given in the last year or so from the likes of Mssrs. Norman, Garcia and Mickelson has been pretty much a diversion.  We’re growing the game….it’s not about sportswashing ….we deserve the points because of who we are….

[freeze16172002]

10 hours ago, mitchl said:

Perhaps LIV has not responded with a letter, but they have certainly responded.   Phil, Bryson, Greg and probably more have all come out with statements indicating that the OWGR has to rank them, or the majors have to pick another method to rank them.   Phil says it is easy, just look at who is good and give them invites, I think is his method.   

Also, what the man says also lines up with the reports of when the OWGR did last respond - while it was not publicized, the rumors were that the number of holes, the number of players is not at issue - here he indicates that can be solved with math.

What is the issue is relegation and promotion.   There has to be a way to play into the events - not for each one - likely no tour has that.   

But also, he indicates a conflict with the team aspect of that.   That certainly is an issue.   LIV has indicated that in the coming years that the individual play will be less significant than the team play.  Ok, well if that's the case, how do you rank them?
 

How do you give ranking points to closed meaningless events with no criteria to play in the events? No cuts, 54 holes with the same players over and over picked by one guy. 

[ilikegolf26]

12 hours ago, Shilgy said:

According to the USGA it’s not…everyone may have assumed the criteria would stay the same so many assumed Gooch was in.  The “clarification “ says “qualified for” and “eligible for” .   Gooch was not eligible.  Personally I think Aaron Wise…#31 in the standings…should have replaced him in the Tour Championship.

 

Bottom line is the guys that went bought the spiel being sold to them.  But Norman lied and told them the PGA Tour would do nothing and they would get ranking points.

 

OOPS!

Greg lied and 48 professional golfers careers died. 

[idrive]

Phil reminds me of a politician that will lie if it fits the narrative.

 

My question is, how much longer will people continue to believe anything he says simply because he's PM?

 

Lynch: Phil Mickelson’s conspiracy rants are just a ploy to deflect a responsibility that lies with him (msn.com)

 

For those looking for something funny.. Gregs latest quote:

 

This week, LIV Golf CEO Greg Norman spoke about the possibility of LIV Golf playing an event in Ireland in the future. Norman confirmed that an event in Ireland is something the league would consider in the next 2-5 years.

“We’re looking at 2025, 2026, 2027 and 2028 now,” Norman told the BBC. “The popularity and success have spoken for itself."

 

 

[billyspan]

13 hours ago, idrive said:

 

Your point?

 

 

So. the point being?

 

I could pick on all of the players you've listed but I'll just use one example of your flawed, misguided post.

 

Kel Nagle - Won 2 PGA events - not the (86) that you've inferred.  Also won 1 Open and 1 Canadian open. The majority of those wins were on the Australasia tour. 

 

The Australasia tour is NOT "Top Tier" in relation to the PGAT.

 

I would slide George Knudson, Dave Barr and Mike Weir in the same class or just below several of those players mentioned.  Amazing how those fellas developed with just a 6 month season.  Knudson grew up in Winnipeg!!

[Capped]

4 hours ago, ilikegolf26 said:

Greg lied and 48 professional golfers careers died. 

To be fair Chase Koepka had no career to begin with. 

[jdl]

Heard a "watch LIV golf on the CW" radio ad today from a Boston station. So they are doing some advertising though radio spots don't seem to be a huge draw for most these days.

[kasting333]

14 hours ago, freeze16172002 said:

How do you give ranking points to closed meaningless events with no criteria to play in the events? No cuts, 54 holes with the same players over and over picked by one guy. 

FYI 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/liv-golf-qualifying-school-tournament-relegation-2024

[Shilgy]

2 hours ago, kasting333 said:

FYI 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/liv-golf-qualifying-school-tournament-relegation-2024

LOL…from your link

 

In exchange, four LIV golfers will be relegated following the 2023 regular season. They will be the bottom four players on LIV’s individual points list from the regular season who are not already exempt (under a multi-year contract).

 

So four players will lose their LIV rights….4….quattro….vier….quatre And those under contract are exempt.  And you consider than an open competition?  Too funny.  Must be why a couple of the bottom of the barrel guys are still playing.  It’s apparently worth about $480k per event to the LIV/Saudis/PIF officials to give the appearance that they are complying with one of the OWGR requirements.

[HomaComa]

16 hours ago, freeze16172002 said:

How do you give ranking points to closed meaningless events with no criteria to play in the events? No cuts, 54 holes with the same players over and over picked by one guy. 

The OWGR’s requirements for points are pretty straightforward (this is from a Golf Digest article). All bias aside you’d be an idiot to think you deserve owgr points for playing 54 hole no-cut event against the same 40 something guys every tournament.
LIV isn’t even meeting half of the requirements for OWGR points and they better make some changes soon. W/O owgr points no top 20 golfer will even give a thought to LIV considering how much money you can make on the PGA tour now. They ain’t getting Rahm, Scheffler, Rory, Spieth, JT, Collin anytime soon. I think LIV is gonna close shop by 2024 and it’s gonna be messy cause a slew of guys like Bryson will wanna return to the tour
 

 

 

[Short Pete]

5 hours ago, kasting333 said:

FYI 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/liv-golf-qualifying-school-tournament-relegation-2024

Sihwan Kim, James Piot and Jedediah Morgan may be replaced by Turk Pettit, Ittanat Buratsyanatawat and Andy Ogletree. The only way this league can get star power is through throwing around even more money. And if Turk Pettit makes it through this qualifying event, and two events into the 2024 campaign JT, Rahm, Homa and Schauffele would want to play LIV, what would they do? Kick out the unknown players! LIV can not survive on showcasing DJ, Cam Smith, DeChambeau and Koepka week after week. 

[Capped]

8 hours ago, kasting333 said:

FYI 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/liv-golf-qualifying-school-tournament-relegation-2024

So if Cam Young said tomorrow he wanted to play on LIV golf next year they would make him qualify? I have a hard time believing that. 

[aus10KC]

I watched the last 7 holes yesterday on CW sports. The broadcast was not good and cut out often. Didn't care for how they do hole flyovers.

 

It was good to see some of these guys play. DJ, Cam, Brooks.

 

Has anyone else have technical issues with the broadcast on CW?

[idrive]

14 hours ago, kasting333 said:

FYI 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/liv-golf-qualifying-school-tournament-relegation-2024

 

Obviously it's JMO but..

 

Other than a very small handful of folks, NOBODY cares about these teams.

 

They are meaningless and bring nothing to the game.

[jimecherry]

2 hours ago, aus10KC said:

I watched the last 7 holes yesterday on CW sports. The broadcast was not good and cut out often. Didn't care for how they do hole flyovers.

 

It was good to see some of these guys play. DJ, Cam, Brooks.

 

Has anyone else have technical issues with the broadcast on CW?

on pc watching via the website no cutouts. if your on android blame the app ;}

[HomaComa]

Does anyone here actually believe the LIV guys deserve OWGR points for playing 54 holes and having 48 man fields 😂

[Cincy_Ken]

3 hours ago, HomaComa said:

Does anyone here actually believe the LIV guys deserve OWGR points for playing 54 holes and having 48 man fields 😂

Does anyone not? He just beat Cam Smith, other talented in their prime golfers were in the top 10. Not to diminish Jason Day but DJ beat more quality golfers than Day did. Could care less about 54 vs 72, 54 to me is long enough to identify a legitimate champion 

[Greg_B]

7 hours ago, idrive said:

 

Obviously it's JMO but..

 

Other than a very small handful of folks, NOBODY cares about these teams.

 

They are meaningless and bring nothing to the game.

That small handful of folks seems to include a fair number of paid social media/message board posters, same as when the outfit first went live last year. 

[jimecherry]

3 hours ago, HomaComa said:

Does anyone here actually believe the LIV guys deserve OWGR points for playing 54 holes and having 48 man fields 😂

me they deserve points based on the quality of players as apposed to the legacy or lack thereof of the tournaments. so about 1/4 of the points of a non designated pga event would be a good start.

[NormanFan]

56 minutes ago, Cincy_Ken said:

Does anyone not? He just beat Cam Smith, other talented in their prime golfers were in the top 10. Not to diminish Jason Day but DJ beat more quality golfers than Day did. Could care less about 54 vs 72, 54 to me is long enough to identify a legitimate champion 

 

The problem is that the field is MUCH smaller and it never really changes.

[Dicka]

49 minutes ago, jimecherry said:

me they deserve points based on the quality of players as apposed to the legacy or lack thereof of the tournaments. so about 1/4 of the points of a non designated pga event would be a good start.

 

So a guy that hasn't been able to qualify for any major pro tour, like Chase Koepka, playing LIV only because of the whim of Norman...suddently has a good week, he should get OWGR points? In an event he wouldn't even be playing in if there were proper qualifying conditions? Nonsense. And don't bring in the invitations the PGA Tour offers as justification...the only way that could be even remotely comparable would be if the PGA Tour offered the same player 15 invitations and gave them a chance to do OK in one of them. 

[HomaComa]

1 hour ago, Cincy_Ken said:

Does anyone not? He just beat Cam Smith, other talented in their prime golfers were in the top 10. Not to diminish Jason Day but DJ beat more quality golfers than Day did. Could care less about 54 vs 72, 54 to me is long enough to identify a legitimate champion 

 

Give the Champions Tour points as well then. 54 holes with 48 golfers is a joke

[HomaComa]

1 hour ago, jimecherry said:

me they deserve points based on the quality of players as apposed to the legacy or lack thereof of the tournaments. so about 1/4 of the points of a non designated pga event would be a good start.

Nah. Limited field and 54 holes isn't a legit competition

[Frankensteins Monster]

Once again had no clue there was an exhibition this weekend.

[mitchl]

5 hours ago, HomaComa said:

Does anyone here actually believe the LIV guys deserve OWGR points for playing 54 holes and having 48 man fields 😂

do the golfers deserve it?   I think if possible, they should rank them.   The golfers don’t deserve it unless they are playing in a tour and events which meets the criteria for inclusion.     That criteria can’t just be thrown out when it is being used in hundreds of events which have met the criteria for a handful of golfers who want to be ranked, and only a small fraction (maybe 10) are even relevant

 

for 54 holes, that’s not an issue, IMO.   

48 man fields?   Also not an issue, the math works to adjust the strength of field to what the field size is.

 

what the problem is, that all the events are invitational, and playing in them is not at all performance based.   More than half of the field is locked in regardless of their performance.   That is not at all the same as the smalller field PGA or other events, because there is criteria based in performance to get there.   You don’t get into the no cut playoff fields because Monohan invites you to play,   The whole season determines the cut of who gets in, and then each field after is based on a criteria.

 

however in LIV, you could be a warm body throwing up last place finishes for 4 events in a row and you’re still in the field… and you’re going to get ranking points just for being there.

 

and once a season making changes won’t do it, if you’ve got so many locked in multi year deals.   It needs to be every 2-4 events bottom finishers get relegated and some method to promote someone in, amd if that bottom finisher is Phil, then he needs to go with the nobodies.