LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[smashdn]

2 hours ago, Ghost of Snead said:

You would think Norman had choices of where to play when, but evidently not. 

 

Don't know.  My guess is not many choices.  And my guess is with fewer choices and trying to fit their fewer events around majors and their international events, if Golf Club of Houston wanted an event, and this was the open spot, or they were willing to have the event, and this was the spot, they took it.

 

I mean, they played a LIV event in Saudi Arabia.  Not sure what the humidity is like there but guessing it is pretty warm too.

 

Curiosity got the better of me and I looked up the conditions in Jeddah during the March tournament.  97, 90, 86F.  Looks like a fairly dry climate though with humidity currently only topping around 55% now.  I don't know how to go back to March and look at humidity on wunderground.

 

---

 

I added the part about confusion because I hate when people put that little confusion emoji on a post and then don't take the time to quote it and ask for clarification or say what they are confused by.

Edited June 5 by smashdn

[bscinstnct]

Xander Schauffele Throws Shade At Jon Rahm Over Questionable LIV Golf Belief

 

The Spaniard would go on to suggest earlier this year that he hoped his departure could 'expedite' a deal between the tours.

However, that has not proven to be the case.

 

The American would suggest that the only player with that level of influence would be Tiger Woods….

 

 

“I can think of one guy who would really move the needle, that’s still playing. [He] only plays like four times a year or five times a year, but that guy really moves the needle, in my opinion.

 

But for guys that think that an individual will make this whole thing go faster, it’s probably thinking a bit highly of yourself, to be completely honest...

It’s going to run its course and everyone needs to get on the same page at some point, and that may take a while.

 

I don’t know what the time frame would be, but four, five years or I guess it might even be longer than that, who even knows? “
 

https://www.balls.ie/golf/xander-schauffele-jon-rahm-liv-golf-600351

 

 

 

 

 

 

[leezer99]

8 hours ago, Archimedes65 said:

 

LIV’s team names crack me up.  Half of them sound like roller derby team names, and the other half sound like they a group of 12 year olds came up with them.  Nothing says professionalism like ‘The Crushers’…

The Crushers are the most popular team in terms of merch sales and YT views. 

[leezer99]

5 hours ago, Archimedes65 said:

 

I disagree.  My money’s on the big names walking away from LIV when their contracts are up and trying to make their way back to the PGA Tour, unless something radically changes in terms of a PGA Merger and/or LIV magically becomes successful.  The big names that signed got so much money for their 3-5 year commitment, they won’t need any more money and I think they will miss playing in relevant tournaments and having easier access to the Majors.

 

If status quo remains the same, I can’t imagine guys like Rahm wanting to spend the rest of their careers playing meaningless events for more bags of cash. Again, IF nothing changes in the current landscape. 

Role players (non captains that are playing well) are looking for bigger better long term contracts and not getting them. They’ll be the first to go. I know of two that have been speaking with the PGA on how to come back. 

[stinger_gc]

Got a friend who works for the tour and the tour’s waiting to run this out til end of 2025/beginning of 2026. That’s when the first round of LIV contracts expire 

[bekgolf]

1 hour ago, stinger_gc said:

Got a friend who works for the tour and the tour’s waiting to run this out til end of 2025/beginning of 2026. That’s when the first round of LIV contracts expire 

 

Great info.  I wonder if any of the players realize they lost fans when they went to liv?  It's not something a player can come back from easily.

 

There were several who went to liv that I used to cheer for, now I don't want to see them, especially in a major.  What a bunch of word not allowed!  They said good bye to their fans when they went over, we aren't coming back.

[idrive]

I'm not going to pretend I know much of anything about the liv player contracts, but I do know that they do vary. Most are 3,4- or 5-year contracts with 3 years being the most prevalent?

 

Should be several that expire at the end of '24.

 

Must admit I am a bit curious.

[stinger_gc]

9 hours ago, bekgolf said:

 

Great info.  I wonder if any of the players realize they lost fans when they went to liv?  It's not something a player can come back from easily.

 

There were several who went to liv that I used to cheer for, now I don't want to see them, especially in a major.  What a bunch of word not allowed!  They said good bye to their fans when they went over, we aren't coming back.

I just want the top guys to play together again more than 4 times a year. Have them pay a fine and say they’re ineligible for equity and call it a day. 

[stinger_gc]

https://x.com/NUCLRGOLF/status/1798691169549029699
 

 

 

Could an announcement be coming soon 👀

Edited June 6 by stinger_gc

[hackeraz]

3 hours ago, stinger_gc said:

https://x.com/NUCLRGOLF/status/1798691169549029699
 

 

 

Could an announcement be coming soon 👀

So much for that friend and their inside information. 

[Tpfol]

The PGA tour would sink LIV by allowing former PGA card holders the opportunity to re-join provided they can qualify, "re-earn" their card. 

 

[SnowbirdTom]

5 hours ago, stinger_gc said:

https://x.com/NUCLRGOLF/status/1798691169549029699
 

 

 

Could an announcement be coming soon 👀

Could be the Tour is gonna give them the middle finger in person?  LIV worshipers are gonna be heartbroken. Again.

[smashdn]

16 hours ago, bekgolf said:

 

Great info.  I wonder if any of the players realize they lost fans when they went to liv?  It's not something a player can come back from easily.

 

How would a player quantify how many fans they may or may not have lost or even had to begin with?

 

I get their are indirect type things like sponsorships but that can be driven as much by visibility and marketability as it is actual fandom.  

 

Next question that comes to my mind, does being a good golfer actually increase a golfers fan following significantly?   (Did the kids like Rickie because he was dominating on the course?)

[ducky50]

This is going to take some time to work out.   PIF probably wants to keep a certain number of tournaments and have certain PGA players be allowed to play and certain LIV golfers play a certain number of tournaments.   I can see Rory wanting to play in some tournaments.

[CDM]

19 hours ago, stinger_gc said:

Got a friend who works for the tour and the tour’s waiting to run this out til end of 2025/beginning of 2026. That’s when the first round of LIV contracts expire 

 

Noit sure the make sense waiting oncontracts of players to expire, not sure how the works?  

 

If the PGAT theory is to wait on "player" contracts to expire an issue is "how do they come back" to the PGAT? 

 

Say the contracts expire, and the tour does make it hard to come back or make players PAY to come back.   I am not sure the players would "pay" to come back to the PGAT honestly.    The cost to come back Vs signing another LIV contract (assume for less money) may make sense to stay.  

 

What I question is if that is the PGAT business model is at the current rate of decline can the PGAT substain another 18 months of finacial aspects and more sponor concerns/feedback? *We know the asked a number of them for a lot more money and top ones left.   If the ratings decline more they are not going to pay up more

 

You can not go to new sponsors and say "Wait, trust us, when the LIV contracts expire we are all good".......that is like Jay saying:    "We will never work with or talk to the PIF/LIV golf"        🙄

 

The SSG deal is a great offest though it was reported most of the 1.5B was going to pay of "certain" players?

 

The tour has the better product for sure.  Yet the one thing LIV could do is change the format, meet requirements of OWGR, etc. and then it will be even, which then comes down to who can dump in more $$$$ and wear down the other. 

 

The fact is professional golf is a complete mess and it is loosing fans, which means lost revenue, which means issues. 

Edited June 6 by CDM

[stinger_gc]

4 hours ago, hackeraz said:

So much for that friend and their inside information. 

An announcement doesn’t mean anything for next year. The tour’s schedule for 2025 is probably ready. I think the earliest we’ll see some LIV guys comeback will be 2026

[bekgolf]

1 hour ago, smashdn said:

 

How would a player quantify how many fans they may or may not have lost or even had to begin with?

 

I get their are indirect type things like sponsorships but that can be driven as much by visibility and marketability as it is actual fandom.  

 

Next question that comes to my mind, does being a good golfer actually increase a golfers fan following significantly?   (Did the kids like Rickie because he was dominating on the course?)

 

That's a good question.  I have no idea of a number but I do know others besides myself who feel the same way.  Professional sports doesn't work without a fan base to market to (unless it's being bankrolled by someone who doesn't care about returns from the investment).  I understand that the players are off the chart in skill level but that doesn't matter if people aren't watching them.

 

I think a pro golfer has to be good and they have to be personable.  A talent like Tiger could get away with being stone cold on the course but I can't think of any others.  I suppose it's different for all of us.

[stinger_gc]

32 minutes ago, CDM said:

 

Noit sure the make sense waiting oncontracts of players to expire, not sure how the works?  

 

If the PGAT theory is to wait on "player" contracts to expire an issue is "how do they come back" to the PGAT? 

 

Say the contracts expire, and the tour does make it hard to come back or make players PAY to come back.   I am not sure the players would "pay" to come back to the PGAT honestly.    The cost to come back Vs signing another LIV contract (assume for less money) may make sense to stay.  

 

What I question is if that is the PGAT business model is at the current rate of decline can the PGAT substain another 18 months of finacial aspects and more sponor concerns/feedback? *We know the asked a number of them for a lot more money and top ones left.   If the ratings decline more they are not going to pay up more

 

You can not go to new sponsors and say "Wait, trust us, when the LIV contracts expire we are all good".......that is like Jay saying:    "We will never work with or talk to the PIF/LIV golf"        🙄

 

The SSG deal is a great offest though it was reported most of the 1.5B was going to pay of "certain" players?

 

The tour has the better product for sure.  Yet the one thing LIV could do is change the format, meet requirements of OWGR, etc. and then it will be even, which then comes down to who can dump in more $$$$ and wear down the other. 

 

The fact is professional golf is a complete mess and it is loosing fans, which means lost revenue, which means issues. 

I’d assume the main reason is the Senate investigation and trying to avoid any antitrust violations. Also the PGAT just got $1.5 billion from SSG so there’s no need to rush through this

[tiderider]

18 hours ago, bekgolf said:

 

Great info.  I wonder if any of the players realize they lost fans when they went to liv?  It's not something a player can come back from easily.

 

There were several who went to liv that I used to cheer for, now I don't want to see them, especially in a major.  What a bunch of word not allowed!  They said good bye to their fans when they went over, we aren't coming back.

just curious, but why do you think this would be an issue? ... you shoot a score based on skill ... no one liked jack in the early days ... they hounded  him ... didn't alter anything he did ... as for tv, golfers are going to watch, regardless ... the casual fan audience is moot without a tiger-type player ... 

Edited June 6 by tiderider

[bekgolf]

13 minutes ago, tiderider said:

just curious, but why do you think this would be an issue? ... you shoot a score based on skill ... no one liked jack in the early days ... they hounded  him ... didn't alter anything he did ... as for tv, golfers are going to watch, regardless ... the casual fan audience is moot without a tiger-type player ... 

 

I've already expressed my feelings on it.  Most golf fans I know appreciate the skill but they also appreciate certain players being in the tournament.  I don't want to see any of the players who went to Liv.  But that's me and I'm an individual just like everyone else.

 

If I understand your opinion (please excuse the paraphrase) you think that people will watch golf because it's on, if that was the case Liv wouldn't be a topic because everyone would watch it, because it's on.  They have a whole lot of talent but it's not working out that way. 

 

The majority of golf fans don't watch Liv even if it's the only golf available.  Many theories have been put forth.  In my case I don't want to see them so I don't watch it.

[Jolter]

I suspect that Tiger, Cantley, and Speith are playing hardball in the negotiations which is going to end up with PIF walking away from the table and reassessing their options. I can also see the sponsors of the PGATour forming some sort of strategy where they are going to start offering exemptions to LIV players to bolster their individual tournaments if there is no resolution.

[bcjim]

I don't think they can offer exemptions to suspended/banned players. 

 

I, like @bekgolf don't want to see those players. Especially if they get some kind of preferential deal allowing them to play after taking the cash and saying "screw you" to their former colleagues and fans.

 

Also, the biggest myth is that all the "best players" were ever all present non major events. And at any tournament, a significant fraction of the "best players" that enter are out of it after day 1 anyway. Look at today. Clark, Fowler, Cantlay, etc, etc, barring a miracle, done.

Having Rahm amd Koepka (who else would move the needle, Dean Burmeester?) around a few odd weeks? Will do nothing except reward their greed and disloyalty.  And they sure as shhht better not be pondering a plan to have liv B-teamers and pensioners taking dough from loyal PGA Tour golfers.

[bscinstnct]

I think PIF will dump LIV if they can get 4 big Aramco events with all the top players there.

 

They can phase LIV out, maybe have it focus in Australia and Asia

 

Its failed and just makes them look bad and even though they have the money, why waste billions when…

 

4 Aramco events with all the top players makes SA look great and puts the money to good use. 
 

Plus they get a stake in the of a tour 

 

No brainer for PIF

[Titleist99]

32 minutes ago, bcjim said:

I don't think they can offer exemptions to suspended/banned players. 

 

I, like @bekgolf don't want to see those players. Especially if they get some kind of preferential deal allowing them to play after taking the cash and saying "screw you" to their former colleagues and fans.

 

Also, the biggest myth is that all the "best players" were ever all present non major events. And at any tournament, a significant fraction of the "best players" that enter are out of it after day 1 anyway. Look at today. Clark, Fowler, Cantlay, etc, etc, barring a miracle, done.

Having Rahm amd Koepka (who else would move the needle, Dean Burmeester?) around a few odd weeks? Will do nothing except reward their greed and disloyalty.  And they sure as shhht better not be pondering a plan to have liv B-teamers and pensioners taking dough from loyal PGA Tour golfers.

"Also, the biggest myth is that all the "best players" were ever all present non major events. And at any tournament, a significant fraction of the "best players" that enter are out of it after day 1 anyway. Look at today. Clark, Fowler, Cantlay, etc, etc, barring a miracle, done."

------------------------------------------------

 

100% correct. I call it the big lie that's being perpetrated by pundits and talking heads. Other than some majors the big names in golf rarely played together.

 

They couldn't get the big names to play in the WGC tournaments.

 

Like you said after the cut half of the big names are slamming trunks anyway.

[fowlerscousin]

John Catlin will be making his debut this week on Crushers. CHIII is hurt now. This will be johns first competitive event in the most competitive golf tour in the world.

[bekgolf]

1 hour ago, Titleist99 said:

"Also, the biggest myth is that all the "best players" were ever all present non major events. And at any tournament, a significant fraction of the "best players" that enter are out of it after day 1 anyway. Look at today. Clark, Fowler, Cantlay, etc, etc, barring a miracle, done."

------------------------------------------------

 

100% correct. I call it the big lie that's being perpetrated by pundits and talking heads. Other than some majors the big names in golf rarely played together.

 

They couldn't get the big names to play in the WGC tournaments.

 

Like you said after the cut half of the big names are slamming trunks anyway.

 

It's fairly obvious that the end goal is to have Liv host a few big tournaments a year and be the major collection of quality golfers.  We already have great tournaments outside of the majors in the PGA Tour. 

 

Liv has nothing, why would anyone give them anything?  All they have done is attempt to bring about a new order in professional golf, an order that puts Liv events as the best ones.  Who in their right mind would agree to let them take over?  The end product would be something like the Brady Bunch variety hour.  Much hype and little substance.

[Archimedes65]

On 6/5/2024 at 5:22 PM, leezer99 said:

The Crushers are the most popular team in terms of merch sales and YT views. 

 

They have 22,000 subscribers and their highlights from the last tournament got 7,200 views.  😂

 

They’re killing it!

 

[Archimedes65]

5 hours ago, Jolter said:

I suspect that Tiger, Cantley, and Speith are playing hardball in the negotiations which is going to end up with PIF walking away from the table and reassessing their options. I can also see the sponsors of the PGATour forming some sort of strategy where they are going to start offering exemptions to LIV players to bolster their individual tournaments if there is no resolution.

 

A sponsor can’t invite a suspended player to a PGA Tour event.  As regards PIF walking away.  One can only hope.  It’s past time for both sides to move on so we can stop constantly hearing about this nonsense from the golf pundits.

[Holy Moses]

9 hours ago, Tpfol said:

The PGA tour would sink LIV by allowing former PGA card holders the opportunity to re-join provided they can qualify, "re-earn" their card. 

 

If you want to sink LIV, just let them back in based on their status when they left. The only people that actually want to stay on LIV are the players whose game has fallen of a cliff because of age and the PGA Tour doesn’t need Sergio, Poulter, Bubba, Westwood, Stenson Kaymer, Perez, and McDowell. The problem is that LIV would sue the players who left before their contracts were up even if they wanted to come back.

[freeze16172002]

23 hours ago, stinger_gc said:

I just want the top guys to play together again more than 4 times a year. Have them pay a fine and say they’re ineligible for equity and call it a day. 

LIV has 5 or 6 players after that who gives a crap if they come back. Niemann, Smith, Rahm, Koepka, DeChambeau maybe one other. See ya later to all of them