LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[bscinstnct]

Google trends

 

The long term chart continues to show less and less interest year after year 

 

The 12 month chart includes data through the weekend and shows that Brysons big performance added no interest to LIV that isn’t seen for other majors/events when they occur

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 19 by bscinstnct

[WorkItBothWays]

On 6/17/2024 at 1:11 PM, Golferpaul said:

Jay did nothing until Phil woke him up.  Jay should be fired for what he did to the PGAT.

Jay was the guy in charge when the PGA Tour secured a $3billion dollar investment from SSG so a great end result despite the missteps along the way. Phil set the building on fire on his way out and spread a lot of false information, thats all he did. 

[Puttersaurus Rex]

59 minutes ago, subrew said:

So TGL Boston replaced Tyrell with Hideki, because you can't have any LIV guys on a made for TV exhibition golf league apparently.  

Fact or speculation?

[subrew]

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/40376780/hideki-matsuyama-joins-boston-common-golf-new-league-tgl

 

Quote

Hideki Matsuyama, the 2021 Masters champion and a nine-time PGA Tour winner, is joining Boston Common Golf in TGL presented by SoFi, the tech-infused golf league that will debut in January, the team announced Tuesday.

 

Matsuyama, No. 12 in the Official World Golf Ranking, joins past major champions Rory McIlroy, Keegan Bradley and Adam Scott on the team. He replaces Tyrrell Hatton, who was previously announced as part of the roster but left the PGA Tour for the LIV Golf League on Jan. 30.

 

Edited June 19 by subrew

[Titleist99]

49 minutes ago, WorkItBothWays said:

Jay was the guy in charge when the PGA Tour secured a $3billion dollar investment from SSG so a great end result despite the missteps along the way. Phil set the building on fire on his way out and spread a lot of false information, thats all he did. 

48 minutes ago, WorkItBothWays said:

Jay was the guy in charge when the PGA Tour secured a $3billion dollar investment from SSG so a great end result despite the missteps along the way. Phil set the building on fire on his way out and spread a lot of false information, thats all he did. 

100%.  Phil will be known for his failed coup of the PGAT.

 

Jay Monahan will be known for maximizing the PGAT Media rights for $9B, securing $3B in added revenue from SSG, and in negotiation with PIF for an additional $3B.

 

\From what I've read, other investors are waiting in line.

[Puttersaurus Rex]

37 minutes ago, subrew said:

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/40376780/hideki-matsuyama-joins-boston-common-golf-new-league-tgl

 

 

Nothing is stopping LIV from starting their own exhibition league...oh yeah, they already did.

[Noles]

3 hours ago, subrew said:

So TGL Boston replaced Tyrell with Hideki, because you can't have any LIV guys on a made for TV exhibition golf league apparently.  

I'm shocked he wasn't included to begin with.  He brings a huge audience with him.

[Shilgy]

4 hours ago, Puttersaurus Rex said:

Nothing is stopping LIV from starting their own exhibition league...oh yeah, they already did.

Wait…what?! Really?  When did this happen?🤭

[idrive]

8 hours ago, Scrubby said:

Anyone going to LIV Nashville in a few days?

 

I've attended Memphis-St Jude (multiple times) and the Tour/BMW/PGA Championships, so I'll see how a LIV event compares to those events.

 

This isn't the most walkable course if you want to follow a single group all day. The holes extend out to the edges/4 corners of the Grove property, but the exact middle of the course should have plenty of action.

 

If you like going to the carnival when it rolls through town you'll have a good time.

 

5 hours ago, subrew said:

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/40376780/hideki-matsuyama-joins-boston-common-golf-new-league-tgl

 

 

 

Hatton pulled out. He wasn't told he had to/could no longer play.

[Cactus Jack]

13 hours ago, idrive said:

 

If you like going to the carnival when it rolls through town you'll have a good time.

 

 

Hatton pulled out. He wasn't told he had to/could no longer play.

Hatton didn’t pull out. 
 

TGL is owned by TRWM Sports which is owned in part by Tiger, Rory, three SSG investors, and in operates in partnership with PGATE and the PGAT, which control the broadcast rights. 
 

Regardless, too bad for Hatton. Valuation for TGL franchises are up to $100M. He missed out. 

 

 

[bscinstnct]

12 minutes ago, Cactus Jack said:

Hatton didn’t pull out. 
 

TGL is owned by TRWM Sports which is owned in part by Tiger, Rory, three SSG investors, and in operates in partnership with PGATE and the PGAT, which control the broadcast rights. 
 

Regardless, too bad for Hatton. Valuation for TGL franchises are up to $100M. He missed out. 

 

 

 

Some guys just don’t necessarily love the pga tour. They maybe not like the culture, it’s been described as “cold” especially but euro guys.

 

They may not like the structure. Or playing as much. 
 

They may feel they just want a breather from starting at zero year and every event and the guaranteed big money definitely takes a ton of pressure off. 
 

As long as liv is basically guaranteeing certain guys lifetime earnings,many will take it. 
 

 

Edited June 20 by bscinstnct

[Hawkeye77]

21 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

Google trends

 

The long term chart continues to show less and less interest year after year 

 

The 12 month chart includes data through the weekend and shows that Brysons big performance added no interest to LIV that isn’t seen for other majors/events when they occur

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In general it "blips" when there is a big "catch" but the blips are always very short and in general the interest is next to nothing -- nothing new of course, but since the pro-LIVers recirculate the same faux arguments and info over and over there's nothing wrong IMO with reminding that by any normal metric and by its own originally stated aims it has been a total failure. 

[MtlJeff]

9 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

In general it "blips" when there is a big "catch" but the blips are always very short and in general the interest is next to nothing -- nothing new of course, but since the pro-LIVers recirculate the same faux arguments and info over and over there's nothing wrong IMO with reminding that by any normal metric and by its own originally stated aims it has been a total failure. 

 

Hawk! Been a tough go lately for our girl Caitlin!

 

I think at this point there's no realistic vision of LIV just crushing it with fans in the US. It will never happen if there is 2 leagues and the PGA tour isn't folding anytime soon. I think there's only 3 realistic outcomes

 

1) The tours don't merge, stay separate and LIV trudges along until the PIF guys get bored with it

2) The tour don't merge, and LIV focuses almost exclusively on Europe and Asia and talent from those regions (the @bscinstnct model)

3) They merge and LIV is taken to the woodshed and put down as humanely as possible. 

[Titleist99]

53 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

 

Hawk! Been a tough go lately for our girl Caitlin!

 

I think at this point there's no realistic vision of LIV just crushing it with fans in the US. It will never happen if there is 2 leagues and the PGA tour isn't folding anytime soon. I think there's only 3 realistic outcomes

 

1) The tours don't merge, stay separate and LIV trudges along until the PIF guys get bored with it

2) The tour don't merge, and LIV focuses almost exclusively on Europe and Asia and talent from those regions (the @bscinstnct model)

3) They merge and LIV is taken to the woodshed and put down as humanely as possible. 

Or, there's option #4...... which I think is more likely, but it's just my opinion.

 

     The PGAT and the PIF enter into an agreement and LIV is restructured where PGAT players can somehow play the 54League under contracts and the ones with expired contracts or regulated can play PGAT tournaments. What that look like I don't know but that's what they're negotiating as we speak.

 

**The deal would also include a $3B investment in PGAT Enterprise of course.

 

**** I have a tentative plan and both parties can call or email me and we can get this thing done.😎

Edited June 20 by Titleist99

[NormanFan]

10 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

Or, there's option #4...... which I think is more likely, but it's just my opinion.

 

     The PGAT and the PIF enter into an agreement and LIV is restructured where PGAT players can somehow play the 54League under contracts and the ones with expired contracts or regulated can play PGAT tournaments. What that look like I don't know but that's what they're negotiating as we speak.

 

**The deal would also include a $3B investment in PGAT Enterprise of course.

 

**** I have a tentative plan and both parties can call or email me and we can get this thing done.😎

 

That option immediately makes the TOUR look inferior.  It would also kill their TV rights deals.  Not sure why they would ever agree to that.

[Titleist99]

3 minutes ago, NormanFan said:

 

That option immediately makes the TOUR look inferior.  It would also kill their TV rights deals.  Not sure why they would ever agree to that.

How's $3B in revenue make the tour look inferior? The PGAT Media deal ends in approx. 2030, how would an agreement kill that deal? Another media deal would be necessary for LIV and TGL.......Maybe another $7 billion for the PGAT.

 

Concession will have to be made......

[Hawkeye77]

1 hour ago, MtlJeff said:

 

Hawk! Been a tough go lately for our girl Caitlin!

 

I think at this point there's no realistic vision of LIV just crushing it with fans in the US. It will never happen if there is 2 leagues and the PGA tour isn't folding anytime soon. I think there's only 3 realistic outcomes

 

1) The tours don't merge, stay separate and LIV trudges along until the PIF guys get bored with it

2) The tour don't merge, and LIV focuses almost exclusively on Europe and Asia and talent from those regions (the @bscinstnct model)

3) They merge and LIV is taken to the woodshed and put down as humanely as possible. 

I like that she's staying classy!  But it's a clickbait world and unfortunately folks have been trying, now to an extreme, to weave her into their pretty political narratives that aren't valid -- and nothing she can do to stop it.  

 

Agree on the possible outcomes - I'm predicting something resembling "2" which may or may not also involve some change to the DP World if it decides to go on its own and the PGAT agrees it can, but who knows!

 

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

35 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

Or, there's option #4...... which I think is more likely, but it's just my opinion.

 

     The PGAT and the PIF enter into an agreement and LIV is restructured where PGAT players can somehow play the 54League under contracts and the ones with expired contracts or regulated can play PGAT tournaments. What that look like I don't know but that's what they're negotiating as we speak.

 

**The deal would also include a $3B investment in PGAT Enterprise of course.

 

**** I have a tentative plan and both parties can call or email me and we can get this thing done.😎

 

I don't see it. If they merge, LIV no longer serves anyone's purposes except Greg Norman. And I'd guess that if they merge and somehow wanted to keep LIV (I don't think they do), Norman would be shown the door relatively quickly anyway. 

 

 

[bekgolf]

35 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

How's $3B in revenue make the tour look inferior? The PGAT Media deal ends in approx. 2030, how would an agreement kill that deal? Another media deal would be necessary for LIV and TGL.......Maybe another $7 billion for the PGAT.

 

Concession will have to be made......

 

Liv devalues the PGA product.  I don't see how the PGA Tour would associate themselves with the entity that wants to make them a 2nd rate tour with the ad power of Korn Ferry.

[MtlJeff]

1 hour ago, Titleist99 said:

Or, there's option #4...... which I think is more likely, but it's just my opinion.

 

     The PGAT and the PIF enter into an agreement and LIV is restructured where PGAT players can somehow play the 54League under contracts and the ones with expired contracts or regulated can play PGAT tournaments. What that look like I don't know but that's what they're negotiating as we speak.

 

**The deal would also include a $3B investment in PGAT Enterprise of course.

 

**** I have a tentative plan and both parties can call or email me and we can get this thing done.😎

 

The only thing i don't really see with #4, is that the PGA tour is the marquee league and name with all of the history. If i'm running the super-company--i want all of my best assets under that name. 

 

Unless LIV becomes a season-long all-star showcase type thing with only 6-7 events. Almost like an allstar weekend that replaces some of the unpopular PGA events

 

I imagine the sponsors at some point would be like "Um Jay, we don't care about Dean Bunkmaster but can we get Bryson and Brooks back on the PGA Tour?"

 

 

[Titleist99]

29 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

I don't see it. If they merge, LIV no longer serves anyone's purposes except Greg Norman. And I'd guess that if they merge and somehow wanted to keep LIV (I don't think they do), Norman would be shown the door relatively quickly anyway. 

 

 

If I read the PGAT right, which is all touring pros are greedy. they want the opportunity to play for more massive purses (LIV). I've said before the PGAT don't want to abolish LIV they want to control it. The PGAT is an association, and its singular goal is to create more playing opportunities for its members. LIV checks that box. But what do I know... 🙂

[bscinstnct]

36 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

 

The only thing i don't really see with #4, is that the PGA tour is the marquee league and name with all of the history. If i'm running the super-company--i want all of my best assets under that name. 

 

Unless LIV becomes a season-long all-star showcase type thing with only 6-7 events. Almost like an allstar weekend that replaces some of the unpopular PGA events

 

I imagine the sponsors at some point would be like "Um Jay, we don't care about Dean Bunkmaster but can we get Bryson and Brooks back on the PGA Tour?"

 

 

 

 

“Unless LIV becomes a season-long all-star showcasetype thing with only 6-7 events. Almost like an allstarweekend that replaces some of the unpopular PGA even“

 

Exactly, and PIF/SA can have that in short order but not 6-7 events and not with LIV

 

Instead They can get 4 Aramco/SA branded events with all the top players. Co-branded with the pga tour of course. 

 

If you look at the original framework agreement it tips PIFs hand on the two things they want 

 

1. 4 Aramco events 

2. A big piece of the pga tour, pga tour enterprises more specifically 

 

We also see in the original framework they are flexible on the outcome of LIV

 

So, I think is they get the 4 Aramco events and a big piece of the tour, they will agree to stop heavily poaching players and keep LIV out of direct competition with the tour 

Edited June 20 by bscinstnct

[johnseg]

In my opinion the only thing that bring the PGA to the table is the elimination of LIV as an entity. They will agree to some PIF controlled events but not under the LIV umbrella. I really believe that anything that happens results in the end of LIV otherwise PGA will walk away.

[Jolter]

I am just wondering if the PGATour is playing hardball in its negotiations hoping that PIF just walks away.

[betarhoalphadelta]

1 hour ago, Jolter said:

I am just wondering if the PGATour is playing hardball in its negotiations hoping that PIF just walks away.

 

Maybe. When the framework agreement was put together, the PGAT was in a worse place and LIV/PIF a better one. Financially the PGAT had signed themselves up to these expensive events, SSG (and their $$$) wasn't in the picture, and LIV was still poaching players. At that point they probably felt they HAD to make a deal. 

 

Well, a year has gone by. The PGAT brought in SSG investment, which if nothing else probably provides the liquidity needed to wait for LIV to ultimately fail. And with the ratings / interest level in LIV, that seems more likely to happen sooner, as we'll soon start seeing LIV contracts up for renewal and it's unclear the PIF has the stomach to keep funding them at a level that keeps many of these players. Maybe they try to keep Bryson/Brooks/Smith/Rahm, but I doubt they're going to be throwing gobs of money at Poults and Stenson and HVIII to stick around. So now the PGAT's BATNA might be no deal at all if they can't get something they like. 

[stinger_gc]

https://x.com/HyFlyers_GC/status/1803896480249401410
 

LOL

[Archimedes65]

3 hours ago, Jolter said:

I am just wondering if the PGATour is playing hardball in its negotiations hoping that PIF just walks away.

 

While I expect (one would hope) that the PGA is negotiating hard, I doubt they’re trying to get PIF to just walk away.  If they were, they would have cut off negotiations long ago.  This was always going to be a very difficult deal to bring to closure, but at this point, they need to either get a deal done soon or just move on.  They are doing damage to the Tour by dragging this thing out with a cloud of uncertainty hanging over everything.  And after watching Monahan’s comments yesterday, I have even less confidence in him now than I did when he spouted a bunch of nonsense when the FA was announced.  He looks mentally spent and continues to struggle to clearly articulate what’s going on.

[Archimedes65]

1 hour ago, stinger_gc said:

https://x.com/HyFlyers_GC/status/1803896480249401410
 

LOL

 

The traveling circus stops in Nashville.  Can’t wait to see the photo op pictures with Nashville kids at a golf clinic where they all look like they’re in a hostage video.

[Titleist99]

3 hours ago, stinger_gc said:

https://x.com/HyFlyers_GC/status/1803896480249401410
 

LOL

Oh my goodness !......what a clown show. 🤣🤣You can not be serious.

[Shilgy]

2 hours ago, Archimedes65 said:

 

The traveling circus stops in Nashville.  Can’t wait to see the photo op pictures with Nashville kids at a golf clinic where they all look like they’re in a hostage video.

What do you mean “look like”?  No way they’d be there willingly.😏