LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[bscinstnct]

15 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

 

I don't think LIVs lack of fan base is only related to golf 

 

Agree but it’s not a compelling watch.

 

I actually think I’d watch if it was match play format of the top guys playing each other. Rahm vs Bryson etc

 

You’d get some real focus and competitiveness out of them. Nobody wants to get cooked in match play. 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

6 hours ago, Cactus Jack said:

 

Below is a basic summary. Jays missteps have been documented & confirmed by many sources including players like Jack & Rory, the PGAT Board, and confirmed by multiple sources over the past two years. One meeting three years ago and LIV golf never sees the light of day. 
 

https://www.firepitcollective.com/p/liv-and-let-die

Below is a fraction of the list of mistakes made by PIF, Arum and the King. 

 

1. Putting Norman in charge. 

2. Thinking team golf is a draw. 

3. Thinking a closed shop, no cut would be interesting. 

4. Thinking hasbeens and neverwere's interest fans.

5. Thinking money can buy respect and image. 

6. Thinking money can buy a membership at Augusta. 

7. Entrusting Phil Mickelson then only to be a victim of his big mouth. 

8. Thinking big payday for players buys fan interest. 

9. Thinking they could dictate the rules and bully for OWGR status. 

 

I'm just getting started but I'll stop there. 

 

Edited Wednesday at 09:08 PM by BlackDiamondPar5

[CasualLie]

Not sure what kind of "leverage" BDC, Brooks, and the other big names have in renegotiating contracts.  It's not like the PGAT is on record with a compelling welcome back plan.  And the "big names" are team owners so in a way they are kind of stuck with what PIF wants.   For all we know, it is in the contract that if they leave LIV, they forfeit team ownership.

 

 

[Cactus Jack]

43 minutes ago, bekgolf said:

 

There is a pattern of Liv supporters putting down Jay.  Why?  Is it because he won't play ball?  Is it an attempt to get others mad at Jay?  I don't get it.

 

Please don't twist Jay's performance into an artificial PGAT vs. LIV scenario. Jay has publicly addressed and apologized for how he personally fumbled the entire situation on multiple occasions. Additionally, there are countless reports of PGAT players being openly critical of his performance. PGAT vs. LIV... laughable. More like Golf vs. Jay. 

 

Recent articles

 

Jay Monahan: https://www.golfdigest.com/story/jay-monahan-fans-pga-tour-players-championship-2024

 

Xander Schaffele: https://golf.com/news/xander-schauffele-not-convinced-jay-monahan-trusted/

 

Viktor Hovland: https://www.si.com/golf/2024/03/13/viktor-hovland-pga-tour-commissioner-jay-monahan-players-championship

 

[CasualLie]

2 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Below is a fraction of the list of mistakes made by PIF, Arum and the King. 

 

1. Putting Norman in charge. 

2. Thinking team golf is a draw. 

3. Thinking a closed shop, no cut would be interesting. 

4. Thinking hasbeens and neverwere's interest fans.

5. Thinking money can buy respect and image. 

6. Thinking money can buy a membership at Augusta. 

7. Entrusting Phil Mickelson then only to be a victim of his big mouth. 

8. Thinking big payday for players buys fan interest. 

9. Thinking they could dictate the rules and bully for OWGR status. 

 

I'm just getting started but I'll stop there. 

 

 

10. Thinking a global league would be an easy sell to TV networks

11.  Thinking players can't wait to log an extra 200,000 miles to play in global events

12.  Allowing for the team names to be on par with what a 5 year old would come up with

13.  Thinking the TikTok / IG crowd will spend big

14. And when people actually did want to buy a hat, not having enough available

15.  Overpaying Feherty

 

[Shilgy]

On 6/24/2024 at 8:36 AM, WorkItBothWays said:

He was very good in 2020 and 2021 but dropped off badly the last couple of years. 

He rose all the way to 76th in the rankings and that’s “very good” by DP standards?

[BlackDiamondPar5]

2 minutes ago, CasualLie said:

 

10. Thinking a global league would be an easy sell to TV networks

11.  Thinking players can't wait to log an extra 200,000 miles to play in global events

12.  Allowing for the team names to be on par with what a 5 year old would come up with

13.  Thinking the TikTok / IG crowd will spend big

14. And when people actually did want to buy a hat, not having enough available

15.  Overpaying Feherty

 

^^^Truth!

 

Laugh all you want Jack but there's 15 reasons and growing of why LIV is a failure and will never gain the attention of fans in its current form and leadership. 

Edited Wednesday at 09:15 PM by BlackDiamondPar5

[BlackDiamondPar5]

43 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Agree but it’s not a compelling watch.

 

I actually think I’d watch if it was match play format of the top guys playing each other. Rahm vs Bryson etc

 

You’d get some real focus and competitiveness out of them. Nobody wants to get cooked in match play. 

I think match play is fantastic. But with a closed shop there never will be the depth of talent to have a compelling product. Do you really want to see the same 5 or 6 guys that have the only chance of winning? 

 

No matter how you slice it, it's an exhibition, and exhibitions have limited shelf life with fans.

 

Liv is well past its expiration date 😉

[bekgolf]

15 minutes ago, Cactus Jack said:

 

Please don't twist Jay's performance into an artificial PGAT vs. LIV scenario. Jay has publicly addressed and apologized for how he personally fumbled the entire situation on multiple occasions. Additionally, there are countless reports of PGAT players being openly critical of his performance. PGAT vs. LIV... laughable. More like Golf vs. Jay. 

 

Recent articles

 

Jay Monahan: https://www.golfdigest.com/story/jay-monahan-fans-pga-tour-players-championship-2024

 

Xander Schaffele: https://golf.com/news/xander-schauffele-not-convinced-jay-monahan-trusted/

 

Viktor Hovland: https://www.si.com/golf/2024/03/13/viktor-hovland-pga-tour-commissioner-jay-monahan-players-championship

 

 

From where I am it appears that one of the "rallying cries" for Liv is Jay.  Why would it even be brought up if it wasn't to rabble rouse the masses against Jay?

[bekgolf]

19 minutes ago, CasualLie said:

 

15.  Overpaying Feherty

 

 

I miss David more than any of the players who went over.

[CasualLie]

7 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

I think match play is fantastic. But with a closed shop there never will be the depth of talent to have a compelling product. Do you really want to see the same 5 or 6 guys that have the only chance of winning? 

 

No matter how you slice it, it's an exhibition, and exhibitions have limited shelf life with fans.

 

Liv is well past its expiration date 😉

 

There's potential there!  Have it match play with handicaps!  That way the same 5 or 6 guys do not win.  Even better, have a qualifier so the sandbagging 10 handicaps could end up playing Anthony Kim.  Although, hard to tell who would get strokes in that match.

[bcjim]

4 hours ago, stinger_gc said:

Brooks and Bryson definitely deserve some sort of extension that’s bigger than what they currently have. Pretty sure both of those contracts are up end of 2025. The PGAT could 100% give those guys equity in order for them to comeback 

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha hah ah aha hah aha

 

They have both done some good. For themselves.  They haven't done anything for pif or liv based on the trajectory of liv golf.  Indeed, based on the way things are going, liv ought to fire all these guys and sign 40 (or whatever) new guys.

 

And what of Poulter and Phil and Perez types?  They'll be hitting up local munis for some action soon.

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, MtlJeff said:

 

I don't think LIVs lack of fan base is only related to golf 

You won't get any argument from me on that pal, that's for sure..........

[MtlJeff]

1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Agree but it’s not a compelling watch.

 

I actually think I’d watch if it was match play format of the top guys playing each other. Rahm vs Bryson etc

 

You’d get some real focus and competitiveness out of them. Nobody wants to get cooked in match play. 

 

I watch both leagues somewhat though i watch less golf these days. I agree with many here that the diluted product is bad for everyone. 

 

I don't know that i dislike the product. The coverage is fine if not a bit better IMO

 

Half the guys are irrelevant and i agree with many here that i don't think they care all that much other than just staying sharp for majors. So it's hard to get into it. It's less about the big contracts.....there's just a cloud over it and eventually there will be a merger. So who really cares who wins LIV nashville. No one will remember it existed in 5 years

[idrive]

1 hour ago, MtlJeff said:

Half the guys are irrelevant and i agree with many here that i don't think they care all that much other than just staying sharp for majors. So it's hard to get into it. It's less about the big contracts.....there's just a cloud over it and eventually there will be a merger. So who really cares who wins LIV nashville. No one will remember it existed NEXT YEAR.

 

IF............... they even play there next year.

[Rapidcat]

9 hours ago, bcjim said:

Sure, what  with his history of great decision making and all.

 

Jay's - none.

[StoutKing]

6 hours ago, CasualLie said:

 

10. Thinking a global league would be an easy sell to TV networks

11.  Thinking players can't wait to log an extra 200,000 miles to play in global events

12.  Allowing for the team names to be on par with what a 5 year old would come up with

13.  Thinking the TikTok / IG crowd will spend big

14. And when people actually did want to buy a hat, not having enough available

15.  Overpaying Feherty

 

 

16. Whenever I tried to watch it the announcers were unbearable.  They constantly blabbed about how great LIV is.  News flash - if you have to tell people you're great you're not.  Just hand the ball to the ref like Barry Sanders did.  People will figure it out.

[notsohard]

12 hours ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

No matter how you slice it, it's an exhibition, and exhibitions have limited shelf life with fans.

 

 

..............You know what’s an exhibition? ............the NFL, NBA, MLB and NHL....because NONE of them have relegation to a lower league, they all play HALF a year (what are they doing the rest of the year?), and none of them play against other leagues, local or international-wise during the season to test themselves against the world.............That's an exhibition...or you could say that Bryson performed an exhibition at the US Open...either way, golf is good if you like golf. 

[dcmidnight]

 

[CDM]

21 hours ago, Danielson said:

Typically you don't want to let foxes into your henhouse. We have a lot of people who seem to be thinking "but we have no idea what the fox is after, maybe it's a NICE fox". Not that I think Monahan has handled anything well, but I also don't think giving the PIF an in to the PGA Tour would have been a good idea. We'd be sitting here going "wow, I can't believe Jay got suckered like that".

 

 

 

Well Jay suckered the PGA players as we all know. 

 

Agree on the Fox in the hen house aspect.

 

SSG team might be that "NICE" Fox you mention. They are smart business men and are not just tossing up to  3B into something for the "kindness of their heart".  They see an endgame and money associated.  *plus Jay running his mouth on TV saying the SSG deal was done with the intent of the PIF.....why would you even mention it????

 

Sad but my statement from the beginning is Jay is not the leader that should be there. Proving it over and over.  Goes on TV and says he is the right person to deal/lead this situation....yet NOT once in  his career has he ever done anything like this. 

 

*how many top leaders have you ever heard go on national TV and have to tell people they are the right person??? If so how much longer did they last LOL

 

He was Dean's pet is all, got the job by attrition.  Plus it was during Tiger's heyday....anyone on this forum could have done the job...

Edited Thursday at 12:29 PM by CDM

[pingbling23]

2 hours ago, dcmidnight said:

 

Never heard of it.

[Shilgy]

3 hours ago, notsohard said:

 

 

..............You know what’s an exhibition? ............the NFL, NBA, MLB and NHL....because NONE of them have relegation to a lower league, they all play HALF a year (what are they doing the rest of the year?), and none of them play against other leagues, local or international-wise during the season to test themselves against the world.............That's an exhibition...or you could say that Bryson performed an exhibition at the US Open...either way, golf is good if you like golf. 

It’s the players that get relegated for poor play….not the soccer model of franchises that get relegated.  We’re not discussing LIV teams should get relegated…just the poorly performing players. 
Are you not aware professional sports players get cut even when they have years left on their contract?

https://www.mlb.com/news/jose-abreu-released-by-astros

 

 

 

[idrive]

34 minutes ago, pingbling23 said:

Never heard of it.

 

Exactly.

 

In a nutshell. They reported ridiculous #s of people watching while nobody was watching.

 

Basically, laughed at and out of business. Seemed to be on the rise until partnering with liv not too many months ago.

[bscinstnct]

16 hours ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

I think match play is fantastic. But with a closed shop there never will be the depth of talent to have a compelling product. Do you really want to see the same 5 or 6 guys that have the only chance of winning? 

 

No matter how you slice it, it's an exhibition, and exhibitions have limited shelf life with fans.

 

Liv is well past its expiration date 😉

 

Good points

 

However, my thoughts underline how badly LIV was planned. This “top down” thinking, just launching this format, it doesn’t seem like it was market researched, just some ideas that Norman and the PIF guys had. 
 

Had they launched LIV with a simple compelling message to fans…

 

 

Match play, battle of the heavyweights!

 

Brooks takes on Bryson! 

 

DJ brawls Phil!

 

You dont want to miss it!

 

🤣

 

Then you’d have a compelling, proven, format and get viewers right from the get go. You’d get a million people to watch that. 
 

Doesn’t mean a big success necessarily. But now with Rahm and Cam, you run matches with those guys, a lot more people would tune in

[smashdn]

I like match play.  Let's not kid ourselves here though, the same issues there are with match play for the PGAT would be there for LIV.  It doesn't translate well to TV.  The "stars" can be out and done early.  And in the US, match play is dying in the sense that incredibly rarely would you find a Saturday morning group of four playing match play.  I have never seen it at a public course and rarely at a private clubs.

[Cactus Jack]

3 hours ago, dcmidnight said:

 

LIV streams Friday rounds live on YouTube. 

Edited Thursday at 02:27 PM by Cactus Jack

[Cactus Jack]

8 minutes ago, smashdn said:

I like match play.  Let's not kid ourselves here though, the same issues there are with match play for the PGAT would be there for LIV.  It doesn't translate well to TV.  The "stars" can be out and done early.  And in the US, match play is dying in the sense that incredibly rarely would you find a Saturday morning group of four playing match play.  I have never seen it at a public course and rarely at a private clubs.

I’m burned out on stroke play, both playing myself and watching golf on TV. I wish we could get two days of match play to establish a cut, then two days of stroke play for the championship. 

[Cactus Jack]

More leadership turnover in the broader golf golf ecosystem. Deal coming soon? I assume this opens a spot for someone on the OGWR board. 

 

[Ghost of Snead]

5 minutes ago, Cactus Jack said:

More leadership turnover in the broader golf golf ecosystem. Deal coming soon? I assume this opens a spot for someone on the OGWR board. 

 

 

Maybe he wasn't on board with waiting for Tiger to accept the Ryder Cup captaincy until after the Open. 

 

 

[smashdn]

3 hours ago, dcmidnight said:

 

 

 

I don't know what caffeine is (other than what is in my coffee) but the CW app is free and pretty painless to download and use.  It does have two commercials about every 15-20 minutes it seems though.  That isn't a deal breaker for me but it may be for others.