Mini driver alternatives?

[Drivingrangehero]

With all the talk of the TM 300 Mini, why not a through back like a King Cobra SZ 380/350, Titleist 975D, Ping ISI, Cleveland Launcher, TM 510TP… Mizuno MP..?….etc! 
 

I know people look for some larger 3W like the Callaway X Hot 2deep, but why not some older drivers to play at a shorter length? 
 

Is the TM Original One or 300 mini that much more forgiving than a Cobra SZ 380 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

 

 

 

[RogerinNewZealand]

Genuinely try a g410 3 wood with flat lie and open....got to be easier...

[guty17]

I play Taylormade R7 TP 2w at 13* as the longest club. I will have a look at yours suggestions, if they come in 12+ degrees, that would be good for me, as I don´t like big head drivers which you have to tee up high. Minidriver is out of my budget right now.

[Golf64]

I am going try a TSR2+. 190cc and adjustable. Looking forward to testing it out once golf season starts up again(April).

[WristySwing]

10 hours ago, Drivingrangehero said:

With all the talk of the TM 300 Mini, why not a through back like a King Cobra SZ 380/350, Titleist 975D, Ping ISI, Cleveland Launcher, TM 510TP… Mizuno MP..?….etc! 
 

I know people look for some larger 3W like the Callaway X Hot 2deep, but why not some older drivers to play at a shorter length? 
 

Is the TM Original One or 300 mini that much more forgiving than a Cobra SZ 380 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

 

 

 

 

Because these heads were not built to be played sub 45 usually without adding a lot of head weight.  Each 1/2" increment is 3 SW points, so if you cut an inch off to get it to 44-44.5" then you are making something that is normally D2 (for arguments sake) now C6.  Sure you can add that weight back on but you have also modified the shaft significantly from how it was installed as it is no longer tipped proportionally for its length, and so on.  I could see it working but it would require some finagling to get right.  Another issue for many is these older drivers are not adjustable and many of them sit very closed...especially some of the older Cobra models.  Lastly, yes, they will have noticeably higher MOI than something that came out 20 years ago for the average player to see a difference.  Forgiveness is also not the whole story here.  There have been huge improvements in ball speed tech over the last decade where mishits act more similarly to strikes in the middle of the head vs. 20 years ago a mishit was a spinney PoS that went nowhere.

[Ri_Redneck]

To be honest, I have never understood the attraction to these shorter small headed drivers. If a golfer can't hit a modern driver, it's because they have a swing issue and/or the club doesn't fit them in a big way (too light, wrong loft, etc.). That being said, I played a Cobra "Deep Face" senior (12°) driver as my longest FW for quite some time back in the early 2000's. It was a true cannon. Played it at 43.5 and only had to add tip weights to get the feel right. IIRC, I had it shafted with an Aldila Tour Gold 80-T. Great shaft BTW. But then, it was just a high lofted driver that was easy off the deck for me. I still have a good many of my older drivers and hit them well. I played them all at 44.5" w/ 80g shaft typically. That shaft weight solved the feel issue without having to go up much in head weight.

 

BT

[Stuart_G]

2 hours ago, WristySwing said:

 

Because these heads were not built to be played sub 45 usually without adding a lot of head weight.

 

Yes, head weight certainly is a consideration as well as the other things you mentioned but ...

 

I guess it all depends on what you consider "a lot".  To me, a better way of looking at it is that most 3woods are only about ~10 gm heavier than drivers, in some cases less when looking at modern drivers.  To me that's really not all that much.    Stay away from CB or high balance point shafts and step up the shaft weight a little (as you might with a shorter fairway) and I don't see anyone running into too much difficulty making it work.

 

Personally, I didn't see much (or any) advantage when I played with a mini vs a full size head at similar lengths.  But that's just me.  Some people are just not comfortable with the visual of such a large head on such a short shaft.  Those are the people that might see some benefit going with the smaller heads.

[me05501]

Bigger driver heads are lighter and the weight is positioned further below the CG. When you put a 43" shaft in a 460CC driver you get a really high launch and sort of a weak flight that falls out of the air. Accurate, yes, but not that satisfying and useless in any wind.  

 

The Mini Driver type heads are heavier and generate more of a boring trajectory that rolls out. That said, I prefer the SLDR version to the Original One or TM300 style MD's. 

[Drivingrangehero]

3 hours ago, WristySwing said:

Because these heads were not built to be played sub 45 usually without adding a lot of head weight

👍 

 

I am very  proficient with my driver, (Thanks to Howard’s DIY)  and ok with a 3W off the tee, but I find that I am much more likely to miss a green with a 3W in my hand than a 5w, so I’m just looking to eliminate it altogether ……. If I hit the green 20% of the time with a 5wood off the deck, I’d say I’m like 5% with a 3W tops, so my goal is not a driver replacement, but a 3wood replacement for shorter holes. 
 

I tried doing a shorter driver to replace my 3W with a 13* Callaway XR 16. I cut it down to 43” and put a 90g shaft in it, swung it a few times and it didn’t feel like I needed to add weight. I weighed it, and the overall weight was 14g heavier than my gamer, so I was excited to hit it at the range. It didn’t go as well as expected. 

 

 

I hooked it a lot and I’m pretty straight ball hitter. I feel like I would have been better served with a stiffer, lighter shaft, that I could add headweight to, in order to better mirror a 3W 

 

My goal was  to hit something 3W distance ✔️ With better dispersion 🚫

and something easier to fade 🚫

 

my thought was to get a Driver that’s >380 and a shaft that I like in S, but is too stiff in X, go with the too stiff shaft (Ping Tour 65x) then cut it down to 43-43.5” and add weight to the head until it feels right. 

 

I have a 13* Tour Edge EXS pro 3W, with a Tensei Orange CK 60s,  but it is mediocre off the deck for me, I hit it too low. The 15.5* TEE CB Pro f2 with the Kuro Kage I hit high off the deck.

 

My 5w is a TEE EXS pro with a Tensei Orange CK 70s and it’s ridiculous good for me.  
 

I’m thinking of swapping the two shafts to see which 3W wins a spot in the bag as for now, but the mini driver is intriguing 🧐 
 

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Edited November 16, 2022 by Drivingrangehero
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[Kingcat990]

The 2014 Ping Rapture 13° 3W was probably the best mini driver without being a mini driver. 

[Drivingrangehero]

2 hours ago, me05501 said:

I prefer the SLDR version to the Original One or TM300 style MD's. 

 What did you like better about it? 
 

I’ve seen plenty of them and the Big Bertha mini 1.5’s that look promising. 
 

I’m not looking for a driver replacement mind you, something that is going to gap in between my Driver and 5W, so a 3W replacement that I will never hit off the deck. 
 

As far as 3 woods go, I like something around 14*, but I think that I would be teeing a Mini driver a bit higher like an old school driver, so I’d be better off with something 10.5* My driver is 7.5* 
 

Seems like you either find an oversized 3W or a Mini Driver due to weight and lie angle 🤔 

Edited November 16, 2022 by Drivingrangehero

[SVTM5]

Sorry to hijack the thread but I have been very fortunate to own the 2014 ping rapture, original one, 300 mini (still have it) and a now a tsr2+. I mainly used them when the hole is tight or when you have to move it right to left. They are forgiving with 300 being the most forgiving. I have no need to attack a par 5 with a 3 wood the courses I play aren't long enough plus the odds are that great with a 3 wood. Play to your strengths 

[Drivingrangehero]

26 minutes ago, SVTM5 said:

Sorry to hijack the thread but I have been very fortunate to own the 2014 ping rapture, original one, 300 mini (still have it) and a now a tsr2+. I mainly used them when the hole is tight or when you have to move it right to left. They are forgiving with 300 being the most forgiving. I have no need to attack a par 5 with a 3 wood the courses I play aren't long enough plus the odds are that great with a 3 wood. Play to your strengths 

That’s what my goal is.

 

Some holes I can get into trouble long with a driver, or it calls for a fade (not my natural shot shape) I can go long-left at times. 
 

The older drivers (sub 400cc) and mini’s are easier for me to hit a consistent fade by teeing it low. The Modern Driver I seem to have to heel it  to hit any kind of consistent fade, and that leads to cracks. 
 

I’ve found hitting a 3W off the deck turns my “oooh I could eagle this if I catch it right” into FORE RIGHT….. double 😭 

 

 

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Edited November 16, 2022 by Drivingrangehero
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[SVTM5]

18 minutes ago, Drivingrangehero said:

That’s what my goal is.

 

Some holes I can get into trouble long with a driver, or it calls for a fade (not my natural shot shape) I can go long-left at times. 
 

The older drivers (sub 400cc) and mini’s are easier for me to hit a consistent fade by teeing it low. The Modern Driver I seem to have to heel it  to hit any kind of consistent fade, and that leads to cracks. 
 

I’ve found hitting a 3W off the deck turns my “oooh I could eagle this if I catch it right” into FORE RIGHT….. double 😭 

 

 

I have been in that situation plenty of times but rarely have hit the hero shot especially with a 3wood of the deck. The 3 wood is the club that is hard to replace let alone fit. 

[ezra76]

They are cheap enough, give it a shot. I have a 11* Big Bertha 454 I was using in conjunction with my 9.5* GBB Epic. The old 454 is cut to 44.25 with 5g of lead tape heel side and has  65g Rflex shaft. My SS with it gets up to about 95mph and hit it out about 235-240 with a draw (on trackman). My GBB Epic is about 5mph faster SS and ballspeed and I hit a fade about 10yds. longer. 

 

I took the old driver out and going to try a draw bias 3wood with a heavier shaft but might come back to it again.  Last round I had it out was a few weeks ago and played off the tips with 2 much better players than me. I used it on the 1st and 9th holes and hit a couple nice draws. Then it kind of lost it's mojo on 18 and I blocked one way out into the woods not worth looking for. Hit a "provisional" with my GBB Epic and piped a high cut dead center. 

 

I had a couple pics from a while back when I hit it at golf galaxy. I think it was hiccuping on the spin #'s but flight/distance is typical of what I was getting on a good shot on the course. One low tee then one higher tee and setting up to launch higher. 

 

[Poor Mans Ty Webb]

As long as we're on the subject, if I'm going to take an old driver and put a chopped shaft in it, I'm recommending the 300 TI series of drivers from Taylormade from the early 2000s, or the old Mizuno T Zoid, which I've never hit but has a similar profile.

 

To me, a mini driver should be (somewhat) playable from the deck as well as the tee, and the 320TI is wider and more shallow faced, which makes it a little easier to launch from the deck vs something like a Cobra 380.

 

I'm not advocating that everyone should employ this strategy, but I've got a 10.5* 320 TI at 43.5" that gets brought out as a literal play thing every once in a while, just because I'm a masochist who likes making the game harder than it needs to be.  I also take it on trips as part of a half set because it travels okay at the shorter length and if it breaks, oh well, I've got about $60 invested into it.

 

3 hours ago, me05501 said:

I prefer the SLDR version to the Original One or TM300 style MD's. 

 

I've been strongly considering purchasing a 12* SLDR mini and throwing a PX even flow in it as a replacement for the 300 TI.  I've never hit one, but my understanding is that they spin quite a bit with the stock Speeder 57 shafts...

 

 

[Drivingrangehero]

I was thinking of the King Cobra 350 or the original Cleveland Launcher for this venture……. I owned the Launcher 400 and it was one of my all time favorite Drivers, and I hit my longest drive ever with a King Cobra SZ 460, so those have a bit of nostalgia in the sea of early 2000’s sub 400cc drivers, but a couple of the larger 3W and mini drivers are appealing. I’m half tempted to pick up a mini driver or supersized 3W that is scratched and dinged up, just to get it cheap, test it out, then paint it up after I dial it in ……. I hate the Areoburner white, but they are cheap ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

 

I have an Evenflow blue 6.5 75g shaft or an ACCRA tour Z X465 M5 that I could use. 🤔 

 

I play my 7.5* driver at 44.5” so I was thinking of a 43.5” and possibly 10.5-12*

 

I’m not bad with the 3 wood, I’m limited to a stock small draw, when I try to play the fade, it gets sketchy, not so much turning it over, but directionally. I either start too far left, or lose it too much right.  I’m just better at hitting a fade with a sub 400cc driver than I am a 3 wood. 
 

 

[JohnKHawk]

I used a Cobra Long Tom 2 wood off the tee for a little while. I think it came out in 2012. Used to bomb that thing of the tee & could still hit it off the turf as well. Think I still have in a corner somewhere. Hung on to it just because of the uniqueness of it.

[joostin]

21 hours ago, Drivingrangehero said:

my thought was to get a Driver that’s >380 and a shaft that I like in S, but is too stiff in X, go with the too stiff shaft (Ping Tour 65x) then cut it down to 43-43.5” and add weight to the head until it feels right. 

That sounds like a good experiment.  Ideally you'd find a head that was a bit fade bias, CG a little toe side, maybe R510TP.

 

Alternately, since you hit a consistent draw with driver, it may be just a setup and ball position change for those holes you need a squeeze fade.  Rather than relying on gear effect (heel side strikes like you mentioned) to hit the fade, it would be a change in face vs path.  All things equal with your draw which might catch a little early in the swing arc with face closed vs path, the fade might come putting the ball a little later in the swing arc getting face open vs path.  Tee forward and low might help get that low launch spinner striking center but a little lower on the face, coming up shorter than normal, which it sounds like you're looking for.

 

Maybe not as fun as finding a different piece of equipment that works, but there's so many variables in the equipment that can go right or wrong, vs already having a consistent closed face to path that might just need a little manipulation to produce a consistent open face to path.

[Drivingrangehero]

My flight is very neutral with at times a very small draw with the driver. With my 3W it’s a standard draw. For some reason, the smaller headed drivers I can tee lower than normal…… how I would a persimmon back in the day…. and I can open up a bit and slap a pretty decent fade. I can accomplish this with a 3W, but not nearly as well as I can with a mini driver. 
 

with the 460cc driver, I have to tee it lower than I’d normally tee it, but higher than I would an old persimmon, I’ll hit low-heelside drives that happen to get the job done at times, but nothing great.  I lack confidence in playing a consistent fade with both the 3W and Driver …….. I had more confidence playing a fade with my Titleist 905r ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 
 

[me05501]

21 hours ago, Drivingrangehero said:

 What did you like better about it? 

 

 

 

I felt like the SLDR with the heavier TP shaft was super easy to use and felt great. In my hands it was automatic. The flight was a high draw that really did look like a "mini driver" flight...same shape and trajectory but downsized slightly. It wasn't high-tech or sexy but it worked like a charm. 

 

With the Original One and the most recent version it seems like TM wanted to make it more about distance. The faces seem harder and the spin numbers were closer to driver territory than three wood. With those clubs I tend to get the same performance as whatever driver I was using at the time including the same kinds of mishits. These were not more forgiving than a driver in my hands. 

 

It's quite possible that I just had the wrong shafts in the OO and TM300's I owned, but I couldn't get anywhere near the same results from those as with the SLDR. 

 

All that said a friend of mine plays the TM300 and absolutely kills it including off the deck when the lie is right.  

[Drivingrangehero]

2 hours ago, me05501 said:

With the Original One and the most recent version it seems like TM wanted to make it more about distance

Perfect! 
 

Huge selling point to me 🙏 

 

I'm not chasing distance, I’m trying to fill a gap between my Driver and 5w so this is important. 
 

I ditched my Ping G410 LST for a G400 Max, and I picked up a TEE EXS 220 Driver because I needed to retain spin……… the added forgiveness was welcome as well 😉 
 

 

[Port and Starboard]

My tee game has been on and off the past 4-5 months since I retired my old driver, so out of frustration I went on Ebay after doing a lot of research and bought a used Taylormade SLDR 14 degree mini driver.  I was also looking at some of the 3 Deep woods from Callaway which a lot of golfers seem to like.

 

The SLDR mini comes stock with a Speeder 57 shaft at a 3 wood length, and the head is 260 cc.  You might think that it would seem bulky, but it sits behind the ball nicely in the fairway and has enough face depth to make it a great club off the tees.  The Speeder shaft has a nice feel to it and it's firm enough at the tip if you want to really go after the ball hard. Overall, I think it's one of my top 10 best buys that I have made over the years.

 

I'm averaging right about 230 off the tee box with it according to my GPS which is plenty of distance for the courses and tees that I play

 

 

[PEI_Golfer]

On 11/16/2022 at 11:55 AM, me05501 said:

When you put a 43" shaft in a 460CC driver you get a really high launch and sort of a weak flight that falls out of the air.

Are you trying to state a personal experience as a blanket statement fact? 

 

In reality, it's the opposite unless you go to much higher lofts.  Try that 43" shaft with an 8* head or less loft and see if you can really hit it higher than your putter...

 

For fun I put an old Rifle 7.0 steel shaft in a 10.5* Adams 9015D head at 43" and it does nothing but low trajectory bullets.

Edited November 17, 2022 by PEI_Golfer

[me05501]

2 hours ago, PEI_Golfer said:

Are you trying to state a personal experience as a blanket statement fact? 

Busted! Lol

[Bad9]

13 hours ago, PEI_Golfer said:

Are you trying to state a personal experience as a blanket statement fact? 

that describes 90% of the posts on Wrx

[Drivingrangehero]

I think the old school driver at shorter length, just won’t work for me as well as a supersized 3W or a Mini Driver. 
 

The lofts on the old school drivers are anywhere from 7.5-10.5*, with a 43-43.5” shaft and adding headweight, I may be hitting low bullets that run out a ways. Im looking for something that will be higher spinning 3-4,000 rpm to carry a certain distance. 
 

The SLDR size is desirable, it’s designed to play at shorter length and comes in 12* and 14*, and it’s higher spinning than other mini drivers, I think it may be the best option for what I’m looking for as far as mini drivers go. 
 

The Ping Rapture (2014) really interest me as well. It’s large enough at 216cc and is designed to play at shorter lengths (43.5”) , I play my 7w at 40.75”, my 5w at 41.5 and my 3W at 42.5”. 
 

Thanks for all the input in helping me make a decision on what may be best for me. 

[me05501]

Another club to consider in this category would be any of the Callaway 3+ models. Some of those are hammers. I had a Mavrik Max 3+ that I liked a lot when I needed a driver alternative. 

[TravAz]

3 hours ago, Drivingrangehero said:

I think the old school driver at shorter length, just won’t work for me as well as a supersized 3W or a Mini Driver. 
 

FWIW - I have been down this road and back a few times. The X2Hot 2Deep was perfect. Then I got the crazy idea to "upgrade" to a Bertha "Mini 1.5" or something like that because I thought I wanted some adjustability. Last attempt was a Radspeed BigTour. 

 

I eventually went full 2 drivers, mostly due to the TXG video. 

 

I game a G410LST that won't go left, and a G425LSt that won't go right (with a reasonable swing that is). I feel like I can aim just inside the trouble on either side and let er rip. Same setup, same swing. G425 goes about 15y further. 

 

There isn't a 3w in the world I could possibly feel as confident in as my G410. As a rule I don't carry a 3w but will swap one in for my longer hybrid when we get over 7k yards, but would never hit it off of the tee. 

 

Even now, I wouldn't go back to the 2Deep. The 2 driver solution is simply superior unless you can work the ball both ways perfectly and are already hitting like 12+ fairways per round IMO. 

 

It would be stupid easy to dial in a G410 max with a dependable fade and spinning around 3k. 

Edited November 18, 2022 by TravAz

[Drivingrangehero]

My ball flight is very neutral with my driver,  If I do draw the ball with my driver, it is very slight, but my 3 wood is a pronounced draw off the tee

 

I can fade a driver mediocre, i’m just better at fading the ball with a sub 400 cc driver for some reason! 

 

Id say off the tee with a driver hitting my stock tee shot I’m a scratch+, but fading the ball off the tee I’m somewhere around a 6-8 cap, so not bad. When I play often I hover around a 2 cap generally. 

I hit more fairways with my driver than I do with my 3W, so I want to take one of the the best part of my game (Driver dispersion) but limit it to 3W distance, the added bonus being able to work a fade with a mini driver is appealing too. 
 

I don’t intend of hitting a 3W off the deck, statistics show I’m better off leaving myself 80-115y in. 
 

For years I didn’t even carry fairway woods, just a low lofted hybrid 16-18* and 2-PW . Howard’s DIY tune up changed that. 🙏 
 

Im fairly long off the tee (maybe not WRX long) I hover around 166-168mph ball speed, so I’m more likely to hit my 5w or less into par 5’s unless I missed off the tee anyways.   
 

I know it’s got to be swing related, because my AOA with a driver is +4.6 and my 3W is -3.4 at least the last time I was on trackman, that’s what the numbers read. l
 

So, I’m not looking for a second driver, just a better 3 wood I suppose…… a tweeener 😆, but yes, I know, it’s not the club it’s me.,  I do know I get along better with certain clubs over others.

 

 

Edited November 18, 2022 by Drivingrangehero
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