golf ball inflation

[nsxguy]

8 hours ago, Longdriver295 said:

I can still play 9 holes with cart here everyday for 18-24 bucks. Been that way for long time. Now I'm not saying inflation isn't high, I'm just saying green feesis something I haven't seen go up much not here anyway. Clubs is only thing I've really seen go up except for Titleist. Srixon is still under 50 bucks for their premium balls which is what I play. DTC balls still under 40 all these will suit 95% of Amateur golfers.  Never understood why people pays 50-55 bucks for Titleist balls. All because they have always pushed as #1 ball on tour people jumps all over it

 

Because to those people the ball's worth it.

 

When paying $30-$100 per round, unless (and maybe even if) you're losing a sleeve of balls per round, the $1.25 per round you'd save by playing the $35/doz ball isn't worth sacrificing a premium ball's performance.

 

Now if one doesn't benefit from the higher priced ball's performance, then by all means play the cheaper ball. I would.

[Longdriver295]

13 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

Because to those people the ball's worth it.

 

When paying $30-$100 per round, unless (and maybe even if) you're losing a sleeve of balls per round, the $1.25 per round you'd save by playing the $35/doz ball isn't worth sacrificing a premium ball's performance.

 

Now if one doesn't benefit from the higher priced ball's performance, then by all means play the cheaper ball. I would.

I'd bet everything I own if I were a betting man That 90% of Amateur golfers doesn't benefit no more from a 55 buck Titleist over the 35 buck DTC balls or even the Previous model 35 buck Premium balls. But Titleist is gonna fly off the Shelf ONLY because of the Name

[nsxguy]

1 minute ago, Longdriver295 said:

I'd bet everything I own if I were a betting man That 90% of Amateur golfers doesn't benefit no more from a 55 buck Titleist over the 35 buck DTC balls or even the Previous model 35 buck Premium balls. But Titleist is gonna fly off the Shelf ONLY because of the Name

 

Maybe they doesn't benefit any more from it,,,,,,,,,, but they PREFER it, and that's all that counts.

[nsxguy]

5 hours ago, Longdriver295 said:

How do you sign up for loyalty program? So it's my understanding you buy 3dz for 165 at 55 dz and get one free so 4dz that comes out to be 41.25dz?

 

I don't believe you have to sign up for anything.

 

In fact, any number of online retailers offered the 4 for 3 deal in previous years.

 

Not sure if Titleist offered it last year though, or whether or not they'll offer it this year either.

[hammergolf]

On 1/28/2023 at 9:06 PM, QuigleyDU said:

I can tell you have talked with people that make the balls. They want to sell balls because it is the most consistent and profitable line. They flat out money i the bank. 

You are 100% correct. I was in the golf retail business for 30 years. When I got out,  a dozen Pro V1s cost us $35 and we sold them for $42.99. A good friend of mine who worked at Titleist for many years told me their material cost for a dozen Pro V1 balls was $6. When they added marketing and other expenses it was around $12. The golf ball margins are by far the highest for golf companies. DTC companies are still making a good profit selling balls at reduced prices, in fact maybe even higher due to lower operating expenses.

[The Pearl]

8 hours ago, hammergolf said:

You are 100% correct. I was in the golf retail business for 30 years. When I got out,  a dozen Pro V1s cost us $35 and we sold them for $42.99. A good friend of mine who worked at Titleist for many years told me their material cost for a dozen Pro V1 balls was $6. When they added marketing and other expenses it was around $12. The golf ball margins are by far the highest for golf companies. DTC companies are still making a good profit selling balls at reduced prices, in fact maybe even higher due to lower operating expenses.

 

Nobody argued that Achusnet does not want to sell as many balls as possible or that it wasn't their most profitable segment.  The original point was that Achusnet makes huge money and margins on their balls. When compared to other types of businesses, this is simply false.

 

The goal posts were moved after I posted the data from their Form 10-K "they make huge profits" to "they want to sell all the balls they can?"  Well, obviously.

 

$106.2 million operating profit on $667.6 in ball sales.  Operating Margin 15.9%

 

Now 16% margins is not selling groceries, but it is not selling software at 35% margins.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 30, 2023 by The Pearl

[QuigleyDU]

1 hour ago, The Pearl said:

 

Nobody argued that Achusnet does not want to sell as many balls as possible or that it wasn't their most profitable segment.  The original point was that Achusnet makes huge money and margins on their balls. When compared to other types of businesses, this is simply false.

 

The goal posts were moved after I posted the data from their Form 10-K "they make huge profits" to "they want to sell all the balls they can?"  Well, obviously.

 

$106.2 million operating profit on $667.6 in ball sales.  Operating Margin 15.9%

 

Now 16% margins is not selling groceries, but it is not selling software at 35% margins.

 

 

 

 

I never moved any goal posts. My point is that ball sales for every company is money in the bank. Sure big ticket driver sales are fun, but with golfers buying a new driver on average every 3 years but they probably buy a dozen golf ball every few weeks you can see why everyone wants to be the number one ball in golf. The most profitable balls are not the "tour balls" it is the super softs or the like. The Super soft ball is the true number one ball in golf. Operating margins of 15% after all expenses is freaking huge. I know that retail margins are way better than that.. How do I know? I know what I pay for golf balls. I get them at cost. I just paid yesterday $30 for a dzn 2023 z star diamonds. They Retail for $48.. So making 18 dollars margin is 38%. Yes, I get that does not account for opperating cost power, people, etc etc. That is very very solid margins. 

 

In fact, Just a couple days earlier I paid $38 for a dzn 2023 prov1x's that retail for $55 now. That is 30% margin. 

[The Pearl]

24 minutes ago, QuigleyDU said:

I never moved any goal posts. My point is that ball sales for every company is money in the bank. Sure big ticket driver sales are fun, but with golfers buying a new driver on average every 3 years but they probably buy a dozen golf ball every few weeks you can see why everyone wants to be the number one ball in golf. The most profitable balls are not the "tour balls" it is the super softs or the like. The Super soft ball is the true number one ball in golf. Operating margins of 15% after all expenses is freaking huge. I know that retail margins are way better than that.. How do I know? I know what I pay for golf balls. I get them at cost. I just paid yesterday $30 for a dzn 2023 z star diamonds. They Retail for $48.. So making 18 dollars margin is 38%. Yes, I get that does not account for opperating cost power, people, etc etc. That is very very solid margins. 

 

In fact, Just a couple days earlier I paid $38 for a dzn 2023 prov1x's that retail for $55 now. That is 30% margin. 

 

So your issue should be with the retailers and not the manufacturers.   Retailers are making 30 plus margins and Titleist only 15%?  Because in your haste to right that is what you just wrote. 

 

So the real price gouging is at Dicks', PGA Superstore, your local golf store, pro shops?  That is the hill you want to plant your flag on?

 

 

 

[QuigleyDU]

16 minutes ago, The Pearl said:

 

So your issue should be with the retailers and not the manufacturers.   Retailers are making 30 plus margins and Titleist only 15%?  Because in your haste to right that is what you just wrote. 

 

So the real price gouging is at Dicks', PGA Superstore, your local golf store, pro shops?  That is the hill you want to plant your flag on?

 

 

 

That is the thing. I dont have any issues with any of it. I am just speaking to the facts. Balls will sell for what people will pay for them. I have zero issue with that. If everyone stopped buying these OEM balls and 100% went to DTC brands for 30-35/dzn. The prices would go down eventually. But I have zero issues with companies that are for profit, making profit. 

 

But if retailers are making 30% and OEMS are making 15% doesn't a combined 45% margin not tell you there is a lot of money in golf balls? That is the only point I am trying to make.. I am totally cool with them trying to make money.. 

Edited January 30, 2023 by QuigleyDU

[storm319]

On 1/30/2023 at 10:21 AM, The Pearl said:

 

So your issue should be with the retailers and not the manufacturers.   Retailers are making 30 plus margins and Titleist only 15%?  Because in your haste to right that is what you just wrote. 

 

So the real price gouging is at Dicks', PGA Superstore, your local golf store, pro shops?  That is the hill you want to plant your flag on?

 

It seems like you are comparing Acushnet’s operating margin vs the retailer’s gross margin. I guarantee that DSG’s operating margin on a dozen ProV1s is way lower than Acushnet’s.

[The Pearl]

21 minutes ago, storm319 said:

It seems like you are comparing Acushnet’s operating margin vs the retailer’s gross margin. I guarantee that DSG’s operating margin on a dozen ProV1s is way lower than Acushnet’s.

Not me.  

[Mrgreen36]

I play a lot if golf, I only bought 5 dozen balls last year,  think I still have 5 sleeves left. I'm like squeezing a rock for water, unless you're sugar free redbull. 

[wantacigar]

It has happened!  Vice just raised their prices $1.00/dozen for the 5 dozen bulk discount today.  

Although they went up, a 3% increase is not as bad as the Maxfli Tour 14% increase. 

[MountainKing]

You can try to justiry the increase every which way, but at the end of the day the big companies charging $53 for a dozen are reporting hundreds of millions in profits.   Golf balls are a pretty big money maker for these companies.  I guess it's bad business to absorb any increases in manufacturing, but the bigger guys probably could afford to absorb a few bucks, as a consumer there's no way I'd sit here and try to justify this move when a company is making insane money. 

[NRJyzr]

On 1/29/2023 at 3:02 PM, The Pearl said:

Titleist appears to have scuttled their loyalty program. It will interesting to see how that plays out. 

 

Too many have drunk the KoolAid.  Discarding such a program is possible because of the cult-like aspect to their business.

 

Edited February 3, 2023 by NRJyzr

[Fairways_and_Greens]

On 1/29/2023 at 7:11 PM, Longdriver295 said:

I'd bet everything I own if I were a betting man That 90% of Amateur golfers doesn't benefit no more from a 55 buck Titleist over the 35 buck DTC balls or even the Previous model 35 buck Premium balls. But Titleist is gonna fly off the Shelf ONLY because of the Name

Actually, it’s the exact opposite. 

[grm24]

12 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

Too many have drunk the KoolAid.  Discarding such a program is possible because of the cult-like aspect to their business.

Titleist 4 for 3 is back this year so there is that. (shoulder shrug)

 

Supply chain issues the last year or so impacted it.  (go figure for those not paying attention)

 

Ed you really need to let your Titlesit disdain go especially not playing their gear. (😂😂😂

 

Love,

 

Uncle Wally. 🙃

 

[ECgolf]

As others have said, the inflation in ball price (even on old balls or DTC balls) is unsurprising given inflation with literally everything else we buy. The uptick in iron prices and driver prices has seemed (I may be wrong, but it’s how it has felt to me) more dramatic and significant. For balls, I first tried z-stars during one of their sales around Father’s Day 2020 (worked out to like $30-32ish a dozen or something at the time with purchase of 3 dozen). Split the three dozen with a friend as we were both testing out new balls. Got on with them great and they became my new ball (I’m one of the rare folks I think who actually liked them better than prov1. Also trialed AVX and Bridgestone BX and BXS at the time). Thus far (knock on wood) Srixon has been pretty consistent with major sales twice a year (once winter/once around father’s dayish). So, I only buy balls then and have never paid more than $35 a dozen for my preferred ball (tested z-star diamond last year and slightly preferred z star with mid to long irons, but that may change with my new irons. Still have a sleeve to test with them). As the brand seems to be becoming more popular/known (even I just bought their irons), I’m hoping it doesn’t mean the twice annual sales don’t start to disappear or become smaller. 
 

My first urethane balls I played consistently were Kirklands, best golf ball deal anywhere. Period. Are they as good as my Srixons or proV1s or other premiums? No. But that is the wrong question. They are orders of magnitude better than anything else even close to their dollar a ball price bracket. Which is mostly low quality 2-piece balls. They are also way better than most balls that cost twice as much. I had no durability issues with them by the way. 

[Mike412]

On 2/3/2023 at 8:48 PM, Fairways_and_Greens said:

Actually, it’s the exact opposite. 

I would disagree. I believe @Longdriver295 is correct here. I don’t see a ProV1 shaving strokes over say a Vice Pro for the overwhelming majority of players. I don’t even think most could interpret a difference in flight and spin characteristics without a launch monitor.

[elwhippy]

Considering everything I buy is jumping in price, I would a tad concerned that balls weren't creeping. Maintaining a low price when all your competitors are raising theirs shouts lower quality to me. My local store makes most of its profits of clothing. Far more lucrative than selling ammo. 

[chisag]

On 1/29/2023 at 7:54 PM, nsxguy said:

Because to those people the ball's worth it.

 

When paying $30-$100 per round, unless (and maybe even if) you're losing a sleeve of balls per round, the $1.25 per round you'd save by playing the $35/doz ball isn't worth sacrificing a premium ball's performance.

 

Now if one doesn't benefit from the higher priced ball's performance, then by all means play the cheaper ball. I would.

 

 

... I hear ya but lots of factors influence any individual. Playing once a week the cost of a golf ball is almost irrelevant if you love a favorite like PrroV1. But I play Mon-Fri 5 days a week and an occasional weekend round and the Phoenix desert chews up balls quickly. Best I can get out of a ball is 18 holes because everything is sand based and the ball is pretty beat up even staying in the fairway or rough after only one round. And an errant shot into the desert will almost always need to be replaced. So I can go through a dozen balls in two to 3 weeks. 

... Doing a head to head on course test the performance difference between ProV1's and Maxfli Tour's was too close to make any definitive conclusion. And since I go through about 20 dozen balls a year the cost difference is substantial. 

[Fairways_and_Greens]

20 hours ago, Mike412 said:

I would disagree. I believe @Longdriver295 is correct here. I don’t see a ProV1 shaving strokes over say a Vice Pro for the overwhelming majority of players. I don’t even think most could interpret a difference in flight and spin characteristics without a launch monitor.

TXG had a good video on it. The message was is now all tour balls are great off the tee. Average ams don’t generate the speed to spin the ball going into greens, and that’s where a tour ball can really help. 
 

Vice Pro is a direct to consumer tour ball. Try making your point with tour ball compared to a noodle or something. 

[Mike412]

34 minutes ago, Fairways_and_Greens said:

TXG had a good video on it. The message was is now all tour balls are great off the tee. Average ams don’t generate the speed to spin the ball going into greens, and that’s where a tour ball can really help. 
 

Vice Pro is a direct to consumer tour ball. Try making your point with tour ball compared to a noodle or something. 

Why would I do that? No one is talking about a noodle or something. We are comparing a ProV1 to a cheaper DTC type tour ball. Neither of us is saying a cheapo ball is as good as a ProV, but there are a few “tour” balls out there in the $25-$35 range that most golfers couldn’t differentiate from a $55 box of balls.

[Fairways_and_Greens]

4 hours ago, Mike412 said:

Why would I do that? No one is talking about a noodle or something. We are comparing a ProV1 to a cheaper DTC type tour ball. Neither of us is saying a cheapo ball is as good as a ProV, but there are a few “tour” balls out there in the $25-$35 range that most golfers couldn’t differentiate from a $55 box of balls.

Yep, you’re right. I read it as tour ball vs non-tour ball. When both you guys were saying expensive vs cheap. My bad. 

[Mike412]

1 hour ago, Fairways_and_Greens said:

Yep, you’re right. I read it as tour ball vs non-tour ball. When both you guys were saying expensive vs cheap. My bad. 

No worries man, glad we got on the same page!

[mudmarlin]

I’m seeing the Srixon z star and z star xv for $35 at a lot of places.  Looks like they got a new customer.  I like all the top balls so might as well play the one that is $20 cheaper.  

[Longdriver295]

1 hour ago, mudmarlin said:

I’m seeing the Srixon z star and z star xv for $35 at a lot of places.  Looks like they got a new customer.  I like all the top balls so might as well play the one that is $20 cheaper.  

Yep that's what I just switched too is the XV. Ordered 2dz for 35 bucks a Dozen, I'd put that ball up against any of them. And BTW my driver SS is around 93 and the ball Works Very well for me. Actually better than any I've tested and I've tested a lot. 

 

But I will probably get the 4dz Pro V1x when they start the loyalty program next month. I think they come out to 42 bucks a dozen on the buy 3 get 4. If not for the loyalty program I'd be strictly Srixon XV all day!

[nsxguy]

On 2/9/2023 at 1:08 PM, chisag said:

 

 

... I hear ya but lots of factors influence any individual. Playing once a week the cost of a golf ball is almost irrelevant if you love a favorite like PrroV1. But I play Mon-Fri 5 days a week and an occasional weekend round and the Phoenix desert chews up balls quickly. Best I can get out of a ball is 18 holes because everything is sand based and the ball is pretty beat up even staying in the fairway or rough after only one round. And an errant shot into the desert will almost always need to be replaced. So I can go through a dozen balls in two to 3 weeks. 

... Doing a head to head on course test the performance difference between ProV1's and Maxfli Tour's was too close to make any definitive conclusion. And since I go through about 20 dozen balls a year the cost difference is substantial. 

 

You're a +1. I expect you could tell the difference between ANY 2 balls.

 

Nevertheless, 20 dozen*$10 is $200. Or $300 if you take the new ProV1. Per year.

 

Unless you play for free, that amount is likely a very small fraction of the $$$ you're paying to play.

 

But by all means, you do you. If you can't tell the difference, play the cheaper ball. I would too.

[chisag]

1 hour ago, nsxguy said:

 

You're a +1. I expect you could tell the difference between ANY 2 balls.

 

Nevertheless, 20 dozen*$10 is $200. Or $300 if you take the new ProV1. Per year.

 

Unless you play for free, that amount is likely a very small fraction of the $$$ you're paying to play.

 

But by all means, you do you. If you can't tell the difference, play the cheaper ball. I would too.

 

 

 

... I hear ya but the Maxfli Tour is $119 for 4 dozen so 20 dozen x $25 more than a dozen ProV1's is $500 per year. With a Phoenix senior city card my rounds are $32 and I use a MGI remote cart. Summers I join a club and pay $59 a month and $29 a round with cart because once it gets to triple digits I am riding and parking in the shade. And honestly I wouldn't call it a cheaper ball, just a less expensive ball. 🤪 

[Fairways_and_Greens]

This thread gave me cancer