longer shaft and lighter head in driver, whats your experience?

[mizunotpz]

For a season like 10 years ago I had a Cleveland SL290 driver. Ballflight was a little high but it was easy to hit and I got descent yardages. But to be honest its hard to say if lighter and longer was better. What has been your experience? Able to swing more effortless? More distance? Less distance?

[mizunotpz]

Im not sure about the market right now, if there are any alternatives to the cleveland 270-290 drivers. Maybe the new xl lite, but dont know the total weight of that driver.

[MattM97]

Longer shafts usually get a bit more speed and distance at the sacrifice of accuracy and miss hits are increased that much more. 

[jholz]

I've played the recent Cleveland offerings - the 2018 Launcher HB and the standard Launcher XL from 2022.

 

Both these drivers were marketed on a "lighter and longer" model.

 

I cut both of them down to my preferred playing length of 44". They work great.

 

IMHO, lighter is fine, longer is more trouble than it's worth.

 

Hitting the center of the clubface consistently is the way to increase distance.

[Sean124]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone on the course and thought “I bet he’d play better with a longer driver.”

[mizunotpz]

1 hour ago, jholz said:

I've played the recent Cleveland offerings - the 2018 Launcher HB and the standard Launcher XL from 2022.

 

Both these drivers were marketed on a "lighter and longer" model.

 

I cut both of them down to my preferred playing length of 44". They work great.

 

IMHO, lighter is fine, longer is more trouble than it's worth.

 

Hitting the center of the clubface consistently is the way to increase distance.

Did you add leadtape to the head or just cut the shafts and played them as is.

[mizunotpz]

1 hour ago, Sean124 said:

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone on the course and thought “I bet he’d play better with a longer driver.”

Are all golfers you see s***? 😆 Players with smooth swings and good face control could be candidates for longer and lighter Im thinking.

[jholz]

1 hour ago, jholz said:

I've played the recent Cleveland offerings - the 2018 Launcher HB and the standard Launcher XL from 2022.

 

Both these drivers were marketed on a "lighter and longer" model.

 

I cut both of them down to my preferred playing length of 44". They work great.

 

IMHO, lighter is fine, longer is more trouble than it's worth.

 

Hitting the center of the clubface consistently is the way to increase distance.

 

I've been cutting my driver shafts for years.

 

Every head and shaft combo is a bit different.

 

But, with the Cleveland heads, after cutting them down, I did add lead tape.

 

With the Launcher HB - that thing was biased left - so I concentrated the lead tape on the toe to slow down the closure rate.

 

With the Launcher XL - which is neutral in the standard setting - I've got two strips dead center, right behind the face.

 

It's a homemade TM SLDR with forgiveness.

[mizunotpz]

13 minutes ago, jholz said:

 

I've been cutting my driver shafts for years.

 

Every head and shaft combo is a bit different.

 

But, with the Cleveland heads, after cutting them down, I did add lead tape.

 

With the Launcher HB - that thing was biased left - so I concentrated the lead tape on the toe to slow down the closure rate.

 

With the Launcher XL - which is neutral in the standard setting - I've got two strips dead center, right behind the face.

 

It's a homemade TM SLDR with forgiveness.

So you get really good distance from both of them? HB just as long as the XL? Do you know total weight?

[jholz]

14 hours ago, mizunotpz said:

So you get really good distance from both of them? HB just as long as the XL? Do you know total weight?

 

Yeah man. I've found both of the Cleveland models that I have played to be just as good as anything else out there. I do not feel at any disadvantage playing with anyone carrying a TM, Callaway, or Ping.

 

Having said that, I'd argue that the standard Launcher XL (2022) is a hotter overall head. That thing puts a charge into the ball. No doubt.

 

But, the Launcher XL is looser. It has the ability to turn the ball both ways - so you've got to be precise with it.

 

The Launcher HB, on the other hand, is a bonded driver with a draw bias. The clubface is very slightly closed. But, with some tinkering, I found I could hit a very consistent, very controllable high draw with it pretty much every time. Might give up 5 yards or something to the Launcher XL, but it hit a very predictable shot.

 

For me, I need to be able to turn the ball both ways - so the Launcher HB was great but limiting. The Launcher XL has been longer, and more adaptable, but more propensity to bring a two way miss into the equation.

 

This is why I'm currently on the hunt for Cleveland/Srixon shaft adapters. I believe that a slightly better shaft in the Launcher XL will tighten up dispersion a bit and perhaps give me just a few more yards.

 

The search for shaft adapters continues...

[Warrick]

Longer and heavier.

 

My TSR4 is 46” with +6 weights.

 

I don’t have a huge backswing, am 50 and small. More mass, more speed, easier to maintain tempo.

 

I hate light clubs.

[Scottishducati]

2 hours ago, Warrick said:

Longer and heavier.

 

My TSR4 is 46” with +6 weights.

 

I don’t have a huge backswing, am 50 and small. More mass, more speed, easier to maintain tempo.

 

I hate light clubs.

I’m actually in the process of building a longer Ping driver since I play a 2 driver setup now. I tried lightening up the head to a “normal swing weight” around D3+ in a ping 425 max but it ended up making the driver play so different (definitely not as forgiving) that I’m a bit concerned going longer with a ping head. Might end up going in a different direction for the long driver. Do you know what your swing weight is at?? 

[nkurz]

I think long shafts and light heads are a useful tool for aging golfers with decent swing mechanics.  I'm young-50's and currently play a 47" driver with a 191 g head, although I usually grip down an inch.  It's been a while since I've played anything else, so I'm not certain how much it affects distance, but I'd guess it gives me an extra 20 yards on my best shots when going all out, and probably a 10 yard benefit on normal drives.  

 

I don't think angular accuracy or face impact position are affected nearly as much as most people worry.  It's likely worse than a shorter club, but I think it's probably linear with the length increase and not some sort of sudden threshold.  I also play a very high and forward tee to allow for a high angle-of-attack, and I'd guess this is worse for my consistency, although I think it also benefits distance.  

 

I play a long club mostly because I derive enjoyment from being able to drive greens that I wouldn't otherwise be able to reach.  I like still being able to clear the water on some holes rather than being "forced" to lay up.  I like viewing a short par 5 as an eagle opportunity.  I like helping my team win best ball tournaments.  I also hope that using a long club will help me keep reaching greens in regulation for longer than I would otherwise.  

 

Playing a long club likely increases variance of outcome, which means I will probably have a slightly lower season best at the cost of a slightly higher season worst.   Unless you are extremely accurate (and I'm not) an extra 15 yards is almost as likely to hurt you as to help you.  I think it's usually a slight help, but I mostly play a pretty forgiving course.    If you make three more birdies for every extra ball you lose, your final score is lower, right?

 

I think the fear of long shafted drivers on this site is overblown.  Sure,  they might not make sense for most of the pros who are already hitting the ball a really really long way.  No, you're not going to pick one up and immediately shoot your career best.  They take practice, and may well require a different swing than you are used to.  But I do think that many older golfers could increase their distance and get more enjoyment from the game if they were willing to spend time with one.   The benefits aren't giant, but I think they are real.  

[NRJyzr]

22 hours ago, mizunotpz said:

longer shaft and lighter head in driver, whats your experience?

 

For me, chaos is the result.  It's not good.

 

 

[Stuart_G]

15 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

 

For me, chaos is the result.  It's not good.

 

Same here.  Anything more than about 44.5" is an exercise in futility - it doesn't matter what I do with shaft weight (or swing weight for that matter).

[seanjk123]

Not a good combo for me. Fewer center strikes, really high dispersion, and more foul balls than a baseball game

[Lasorcier]

53 minutes ago, nkurz said:

I think the fear of long shafted drivers on this site is overblown.

Agree.  Since my irons are all +1", so are all of my woods including driver.   

[NRJyzr]

24 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Same here.  Anything more than about 44.5" is an exercise in futility - it doesn't matter what I do with shaft weight (or swing weight for that matter).

 

Last season, I thought I'd try 44.5" with an 85g shaft.  Same results as with a 67g shaft, no bueno.

 

[Davidv]

I purchased a Callaway Epic Max Star driver 46" shaft and total weight of the driver is 253 grams. Great results in distance a pickup of 15 yards, dispersion no worse than with my Rogue ST Max driver. Nice smooth tempo and all is good.

[mizunotpz]

2 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Same here.  Anything more than about 44.5" is an exercise in futility - it doesn't matter what I do with shaft weight (or swing weight for that matter).

You mean swing weight is not an issue or how heavy the shaft is? Just get the shaft at 44.5 and youre fine? 

[mizunotpz]

1 hour ago, Davidv said:

I purchased a Callaway Epic Max Star driver 46" shaft and total weight of the driver is 253 grams. Great results in distance a pickup of 15 yards, dispersion no worse than with my Rogue ST Max driver. Nice smooth tempo and all is good.

Wow interesting. What shaft and grip you use to get it as low as 253?

[mizunotpz]

I get that it might feel harder to swing a longer club in your head, but Im sure its something we all could practise and get good at? I mean develop a technique thats better suited to longer driver length. Swing easy, hit hard as Sam Snead said.

[NRJyzr]

5 minutes ago, mizunotpz said:

I get that it might feel harder to swing a longer club in your head, but Im sure its something we all could practise and get good at? I mean develop a technique thats better suited to longer driver length. Swing easy, hit hard as Sam Snead said.

 

I've tried it many times over the past 25 years, and....  no, it doesn't work for me.  It doesn't matter how much I practice.

 

In my case, it's also affected by my point of diminishing returns for swingspeed increases due to length.  I'm swinging as fast at 43" and I do at 43.5", and faster than I swing at 44".  

 

So... going slower means less speed, and therfore less distance, with worse dispersion.  Just another fun aspect of my golf game.  LOL

 

[Ri_Redneck]

I was on the 44.5" bandwagon for many years. In January of '21, I tried something out that changed my opinion on longer drivers. If you're thinking of doing it, give it a read. Here's my thread -

 

I DID end up shortening it to 46" when the USGA passed their rule and play it at that now.

 

BT

 

 

[Stuart_G]

37 minutes ago, mizunotpz said:

You mean swing weight is not an issue or how heavy the shaft is? Just get the shaft at 44.5 and youre fine? 

 

No.  I'm pretty sensitive to swing weight at any length - although I do do pretty well with a wide range of shaft weights - but that's not what I was saying.

 

I was saying that no matter how much I played around with weights with a longer set-up, I couldn't get it to work.   At a certain point, it becomes purely a length specific issue in my case.

 

But for many, to get good or the best results,  the weight (shaft and swing weight) has to be refit as the length changes and many don't realize that and can "blame" the wrong spec on the problems.

Edited March 21, 2023 by Stuart_G

[Stuart_G]

38 minutes ago, mizunotpz said:

I get that it might feel harder to swing a longer club in your head, but Im sure its something we all could practise and get good at? I mean develop a technique thats better suited to longer driver length. Swing easy, hit hard as Sam Snead said.

 

Technique certainly plays a part - the longer the length, the harder it can be to compensate for less than ideal tendencies.   But general athletic ability also plays a big part - so everyone will theoretically have limits even if they try and are able to improve the swing.  And the fact that most are not able or have the time to improve the swing makes it even more of a moot point.

Edited March 21, 2023 by Stuart_G

[PowderedToastMan]

3 minutes ago, Ri_Redneck said:

I was on the 44.5" bandwagon for many years. In January of '21, I tried something out that changed my opinion on longer drivers. If you're thinking of doing it, give it a read. Here's my thread -

 

I DID end up shortening it to 46" when the USGA passed their rule and play it at that now.

 

BT

 

 

I missed this thread back in the day, though I think you and I were on similar journeys. Seeing Mickelson tout the advantages of the longer driver prior to his PGA win got me reconsidering things. Before that, I played driver at 44.25", which seemed to fit my shorter build and arms. I'm always willing to tinker though, so I ordered a cheap, very counterbalanced shaft and built a 47.5" driver like you. I had a G410 LST at the time and was hitting it with no weight in the back. Not only did I pick up speed, but I was hitting it straighter. The longer shaft forced me to swing smoothly and not rush the transition into the downswing (always a fault of mine with driver). 

 

Not everyone will have the same result though, probably a small percentage actually. I think swing dynamics drive who can play consistent golf with a long driver. 

[mizunotpz]

1 minute ago, Stuart_G said:

 

No.  I'm pretty sensitive to swing weight at any length - although I do do pretty well with a wide range of shaft weights - but that's not what I was saying.

 

I was saying that no matter how much I played around with weights with a longer set-up, I couldn't get it to work.   At a certain point, it becomes purely a length specific issue in my case.

Ok, youve been helping me many times in the past with good knowledge so I kind of knew I misunderstood something haha. The advantage with my Ping driver is that the head is heavy so I can go both shorter (without having to add much weight to head) and longer by just using a lighter back weight. But I wonder if many golfers gets less distance (talking normal golf swing speed now) with Ping drivers cause their heads are heavier than say a Cobra head.

[Stuart_G]

2 minutes ago, mizunotpz said:

But I wonder if many golfers gets less distance (talking normal golf swing speed now) with Ping drivers cause their heads are heavier than say a Cobra head.

 

It's an interesting question that I can't really answer - not enough data.   But I can say it never hurt me to play ping - not that that really means anything since I always play them at the shorter length where I"m adding additional weight anyways - just not as much as I might have to with another OEM head.

[mizunotpz]

4 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

It's an interesting question that I can't really answer - not enough data.   But I can say it never hurt me to play ping - not that that really means anything since I always play them at the shorter length where I"m adding additional weight anyways - just not as much as I might have to with another OEM head.

I just notice that when I hit my friends Cobra driver its 10 yards longer at same loft and same shaft weight and flex. Only difference I can see is that his head is 10 grams lighter.