Am I being unreasonable? Cally Tour Issue Paradym 3D dispute.

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

6 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

My logic is, IF the head is cracked, we don't know now, nor will we ever know, who/when/where the head got cracked.

 

As for posting too early, I gave you my reason. Doesn't make the OP right nor wrong.

 

As for the "18 days",,,,,,, I will admit that's a long time, BUT, he did say he was away on business and suggested it was for most of that time. Some people do travel for business. Not using it that weekend ? Who knows ?

 

Me personally ? ANY club I buy, I unwrap and look at as soon as I get it. If I buy a putter, I take it to the putting green the day I get it. Any other club I buy, who knows when I'll get it to the driving range or golf course to use. But that's just me. I'm sure others are different.

 

Anyway, the bottom line (for me) is there is enough back and forth on both sides to make me wonder what exactly happened here.

 

As others have mentioned, I have a hard time imagining someone getting over 400 positive feedbacks by scamming people or whining about club condition to get some ca$h back.

 

It’s 2023, anything is possible nowadays. 

Edited August 2, 2023 by I'_rather_be_golfing

[Nixhex524]

39 minutes ago, golffeen007 said:

Agree on the water test 1000%  , but he deflects in saying he doesn't have time to hit it to video because of work "to test" it. It's all very odd situation when the buyer in no way wants to back his claim. And for that , it makes most of us believe it's a farce. 

 

I can totally understand this.  I just can't see a guy with 400+ feedback doing this as a scam, but weirder things have happened.

[golffeen007]

1 hour ago, crsmith1234 said:

Never said I carried it 300 yards. This has became a crap show,. PayPal sided with eh seller so It is what it is, Again I work a ton and don't have time to video myself. I got negative feedback so I will return it and call it a done day,   I will stand by me feedback and all you internet troll can go jump in the lake ( I would use other words but don't feel like getting band).  What the Heck would I ruin my good name over 200 dollars.  

 

hope every has a great day, 

Is there a reason for not taking the head off the shaft and plunging the face in water? I work a ton , travel a lot , have three young kids and I would find time to make this happen to prove my point and save grace. 

[dfeldss]

This was a nice little way to kill some time at work today. Kudos all around (except for buyer who won't even dunk the club in some water to end the saga once and for all)

[Ezekial]

Maybe there’s a chance the head has been dunked and the results weren’t promising? At this point there’s been a 2 to 3 week window to put water in a mixing bowl one day and test it. 

[aypeeone]

59 minutes ago, Ezekial said:

Maybe there’s a chance the head has been dunked and the results weren’t promising? At this point there’s been a 2 to 3 week window to put water in a mixing bowl one day and test it. 

He’s out of town on business, please let the man work in peace. /sarcasm 

Edited August 2, 2023 by aypeeone

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

Its obvious the buyer has no plans to test the head under water to save his name and reputation. And that's a shame. And thus makes me believe he has buyers remorse and is making up a B.S. story to get something back in the end. Which now makes me believe its a scam to get some of his money back.

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

1 minute ago, aypeeone said:

He’s out of town on business, please let the man work in peace

We are giving him peace. It's not like we are trying to call or find the guy. It is a forum you know. 

[aypeeone]

38 minutes ago, I'_rather_be_golfing said:

We are giving him peace. It's not like we are trying to call or find the guy. It is a forum you know. 

It was meant as a joke and a jab at the buyer since he seemed to be such a busy person 

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

3 minutes ago, aypeeone said:

It was meant as a joke and a jab at the buyer since he seemed to be such a busy person.

Wow that went way over my head.

[NoCalHack]

4 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

So you jumped the gun. Again.

 

Frankly, I think you brought this to the board too early.

 

While the buyer did wait "too long" to bring up the issue, some people DO have lives outside of golf. Not ME, but some people do. I forget if he gave a reason for wanting it so quickly and then not testing/using it, but traveling for business is something people actually do.

 

I also don't know why you left him feedback before the issue was settled. Can it be withdrawn ? Do you even want to withdraw it ? If not, shouldn't you since it went in your direction ?

 

As well, while I'm no club-testing maven, the first thing I thought of was dipping the head into water and looking for bubbles.

 

Failing that I'd have taken it to a repair guy/place. Wonder why the buyer didn't at least verify the head is cracked (even if it doesn't prove when/how).

 

Also wonder why he wouldn't send it to Cally for inspection - or would Cally just KEEP a Tour head a person wasn't "authorized" to have ? Maybe they'd have replaced it ? (Ah haaa, I see the answer just now,,,,,,,,,)

 

So, net-net, mistakes on both sides (whether the driver is cracked or not). And now ay to determine how/when it happened.

 

All-in-all, sounds like just another day. 

 

 

 

I'm not sure what the PayPal decision has to do with the seller's actions.  He filed a bogus claim and I called him out.  I don't know how a PayPal decision in my favor negates that at all. You also point out a reason why the feedback system is flawed.  There is every incentive for a seller to avoid a situation like this, especially a high volume seller like him.  Usually,  issues are resolved and it never gets to the point of feedback.  Any person wronged in a transaction has incentive to wait on the feedback, because it gives them some leverage in resolving the situation.   Knowing now that he is a frequent buyer and seller here, I'd bet that he probably would've withdrawn his bogus claim if I showed him the post I was about to make.  But no, I didn't jump any guns.  The PayPal claim was already initiated against me, and I called him out.  I'm sure he regrets it now, but that's not my problem. 

 

To be honest, I had no idea what his feedback was when I sold the club to him or when he made these bogus claims.  It is clear from the first page of the thread I had no idea about his feedback.  And frankly, I don't care.  I judged him on his actions and I laid out all the evidence why he acted shady.  You can see it all.  And it seems a lot of people, including PayPal, agree with me.  

 

Golf is a hobby for me.  Golf is not a side business for me.  It's totally fine that club dealers are on this site.  I have no issues with that.  But that's not me.  I have been a regular contributor on this site for 15 years.  You can read through my prior posts and almost none are related to buying or selling.  I've probably done 20 or so transactions here in the past 15 years.  Never had an issue at all. Yeah, my feedback is 4.  I don't really care about feedback either.  I've never ever asked anyone to leave me feedback after a transaction.  If I never bought or sold anything here again, it wouldn't affect me at all. And no, I'm not withdrawing any feedback.  Maybe the buyer should've thought about this before he tried to pull this.  Too bad for him.  As the saying goes, he made his bed.  Now he can lie in it.  

 

Now I consider the issue settled, so I'm going to stop posting here.  Unless someone wants to call me out again.

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by NoCalHack

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

Just lock the thread up and call it good now that its resolved. I was just waiting on the buyer to do something from his end to help his case the entire time. But that's long past due already. Like 18 days past due.

[AzSuperHack76]

13 minutes ago, I'_rather_be_golfing said:

Just lock the thread up and call it good now that its resolved. I was just waiting on the buyer to do something from his end to help his case the entire time. But that's long past due already. Like 18 days past due.

Zing.....

[wsupjs]

Glad the dispute was in favor of the seller. Testing the head/face should take less than 5 minutes. No matter how busy someone is, they need to handle that before making any PayPal claim based on product quality/defect.

Not proving any evidence outside of claimed performance numbers for 3+ weeks at this point is embarrassing at best. Buyer needs to move on and accept the head is not the right fit for him. There's no chance it will be sent back to Callaway for a warranty return.

Edited August 2, 2023 by wsupjs

[nsxguy]

44 minutes ago, NoCalHack said:

 

 

 

I'm not sure what the PayPal decision has to do with the seller's actions.  He filed a bogus claim and I called him out.  I don't know how a PayPal decision in my favor negates that at all. You also point out a reason why the feedback system is flawed.  There is every incentive for a seller to avoid a situation like this, especially a high volume seller like him.  Usually,  issues are resolved and it never gets to the point of feedback.  Any person wronged in a transaction has incentive to wait on the feedback, because it gives them some leverage in resolving the situation.   Knowing now that he is a frequent buyer and seller here, I'd bet that he probably would've withdrawn his bogus claim if I showed him the post I was about to make.  But no, I didn't jump any guns.  The PayPal claim was already initiated against me, and I called him out.  I'm sure he regrets it now, but that's not my problem. 

 

To be honest, I had no idea what his feedback was when I sold the club to him or when he made these bogus claims.  It is clear from the first page of the thread I had no idea about his feedback.  And frankly, I don't care.  I judged him on his actions and I laid out all the evidence why he acted shady.  You can see it all.  And it seems a lot of people, including PayPal, agree with me.  

 

Golf is a hobby for me.  Golf is not a side business for me.  It's totally fine that club dealers are on this site.  I have no issues with that.  But that's not me.  I have been a regular contributor on this site for 15 years.  You can read through my prior posts and almost none are related to buying or selling.  I've probably done 20 or so transactions here in the past 15 years.  Never had an issue at all. Yeah, my feedback is 4.  I don't really care about feedback either.  I've never ever asked anyone to leave me feedback after a transaction.  If I never bought or sold anything here again, it wouldn't affect me at all. And no, I'm not withdrawing any feedback.  Maybe the buyer should've thought about this before he tried to pull this.  Too bad for him.  As the saying goes, he made his bed.  Now he can lie in it.  

 

Now I consider the issue settled, so I'm going to stop posting here.  Unless someone wants to call me out again.

 

 

Well, I'm not surprised even a little bit you disagree.

 

The original "jumping the gun" (again, just my opinion) was posting about it at all before you 2 reached some sort of decision.

 

The PP incident I was referring to was you mistaking their notification to you (about the case ?) as a decision rather than what it was, and jumping the gun about that; then saying "My bad".

 

No system is perfect. And of course there is every incentive for BOTH parties to resolve a discrepancy amicably; not just the seller.

 

Even a single bad feedback could mess up a future transaction, although at 400 good to 1 or 2 bad, I don't think a single bad would stop me.......... then again, who knows ?

 

Good for you - it ended up in your favor. Probably the right call.

 

Later 👍

 

 

 

 

 

[Valtiel]

On 8/2/2023 at 11:44 AM, Nixhex524 said:

BTW, do we know the head weight?  Was it melted at all?  Possibly adding weight to a spot in the head that just doesn't work for the buyer?  If that were the case and it wasn't stipulated in the OP then I can see the buyer having a case here of the item not being properly described...  

 

OR maybe.... The buyer cracked it.  Tough to say but I wouldn't write either of these guys off over this.  It's totally possible if it is cracked that it could have been when the seller shipped it, maybe just wasn't showing and a couple swings by the buyer did it in.  

 

The water test would be a really good way to see what's going on.

Piecing together bits from player testing/interviews and what Callaway has said publicly about these varying one-off releases, CG placement seems to be the main deal here with draw/fade/high/low options. All it would take is for someone to get the wrong bias head, like someone that needs or is used to a heel-side draw bias CG getting a toe-side fade biased head and is now hitting weaker, spinnier cuts based purely on a strike location/CG mismatch that could absolutely go 20-30y shorter. But for all that to be true, the buyer would be a good enough player to either know this, or have the resources to find out, neither of which lines up with the weird 19th hole feeling distance claims that started this whole mess.

I agree with @southpaw72, the whole thing is bizarre. 

Edited August 11, 2023 by Valtiel

[tatertot]

Tatertot's takeaway ... 2 more people I will not be doing BST business with.

[Bad9]

I'm guessing whoever the buyer was going to flip it to backed out.

[golffeen007]

2 hours ago, Bad9 said:

I'm guessing whoever the buyer was going to flip it to backed out.

It is obvious what the buyers main purpose is on the site. The past feedback numbers don’t imply he’s too busy to buy golf equipment that’s for certain. 

[Pudgelewis]

19 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

I am totally serious.

 

I am not damaging anybody's reputation, including my own, until the FACTS are in.

 

As I alluded to, people have lives outside of golf. Stuff happens, and, IMO, mistakes were made on BOTH sides. And we still don't know who/what/when the head got cracked.

 

I totally get, when one is on ONE side of the matter, anybody who tries to be objective and take the middle ground is immediately thought to be for one side and against the other.

 

Ask ol' @Pudgelewis about that. 

 

Lol. There didn't seem to be much room for dissenting opinions if you ask me.

 

This thing would have been discussed completely differently if he didn't wait so long to get around to inspecting/hitting it, if there were clear pictures that definitely showed those marks weren't there in the ad (other than the face having tee marks all over it, I can't blame the seller for the quality of the pics, though. They look just as good as most BST pics. I'll probably start making sure I take detailed and clear pics of faces due to this.), and if he didn't use the reason of "not hitting it 300" for claiming it was cracked. I don't recall how much back and forth there was before opening the Paypal dispute, but asking for $200 back on a cracked driver did look bad until he explained his reasoning, which for someone who hasn't dealt with replacements at least sounds plausible. Those are decisions he made or circumstances he found himself in, though, so can't just give him a pass, but his feedback appears to buy more leeway with some than it does others. The one thing I won't be convinced of, though, is that this was all a scam or that he had other plans for the driver that fell through and just decided he'd try to get $200 for nothing. No way that's the case, IMO. He'd have just sold the head if he didn't legitimately think something was wrong with it. 

 

If only we could get a test of the clubhead to definitively show if there's something wrong with it.......

Edited August 3, 2023 by Pudgelewis

[hlca]

I read through seven pages hoping for some objective testing, or other resolution to determine whether the head was indeed defective in some way.  Feel like a chump...

[kthomas]

Doesn't seem to be a lot of good faith from the buyer.

 

1. You are buying a used club. The seller (unless they are feeling very charitable), does not have a warranty. It's always buyer beware. The seller doesn't owe you anything unless the item arrives in a condition that is different than the agreed upon conditions upon sale. 

 

2. The buyer should've tried to reach out to Callaway. They make the club. They have the warranty. They may even be willing to work with a person who bought the club used. But at least reach out to the OEM if you think something is wrong with the club - they will be able to confirm if the item is in fact damaged.

 

3. Why would anyone expect a tour issue driver head to perform the same as a different on the rack consumer grade driver head model??? 

 

4. If the face is cracked - do the bubble test. It takes 2 min or less and would completely vindicate your point. The unwillingness to do such a simple test is alarming. 

 

5. Item should've been inspected upon receipt, and any perceived differences in conditions of item should've been communicated right away. Not ~18 days later.

Edited September 7, 2023 by kthomas